Training issues at Postdoc Fellowship Program

[WisNeuro]

OP, there is a lot of very good advice here on steps to take. There is also some disastrously bad advice here that you should simply ignore. Time to draft up a plan, have some meetings, and continue to document things.

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[mind_over_matter277]

OP, there is a lot of very good advice here on steps to take. There is also some disastrously bad advice here that you should simply ignore. Time to draft up a plan, have some meetings, and continue to document things.

Will do. I hope it works out. I for real might lose my mind doing next to nothing all year!

 

[mind_over_matter277]

It could also be something as simple as one or more people above him have decided they dislike him and while they cannot point to any performance issues or find any rational reasons to actually fire him, they can find ways to make him miserable and possibly quit. I've seen this happen to people more than a few times and in fact, in a large school district where I live, it is the preferred method for getting rid of people administrators dislike but cannot find a reason to fire.

Why couldn’t they just be up front about it? They could say, “we don’t think this program is a good fit for you, feel free to look for other job opportunities.” That makes communication clear and allows someone to process the situation and move forward. Being passive aggressive by making the situation difficult for a trainee sends mixed messages?

 

[mind_over_matter277]

It could also be something as simple as one or more people above him have decided they dislike him and while they cannot point to any performance issues or find any rational reasons to actually fire him, they can find ways to make him miserable and possibly quit. I've seen this happen to people more than a few times and in fact, in a large school district where I live, it is the preferred method for getting rid of people administrators dislike but cannot find a reason to fire.

This is kind of extreme and is making my anxiety and stress about the situation worse than it already is, which are at an all-time high right now.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

They aren’t going to waste if you’re seeing clients and getting training and supervision. I’d be extremely concerned if you got zero hours of clinical contact, but that isn’t the case, and your postdoc hours should be fine based on what you said before about it being APA-accredited.

Maybe I’m on my own here, but is this lowish hours issue really as much of a problem as you think it is? It sounds like you’re uncomfortable and that the low hours are due to organizational factors that have nothing to do with you. Then can you be okay with accepting the situation as is and focusing on doing great work with your caseload? Or slowly working your way up to a bigger caseload throughout the year but not focusing too much on it?

You’ll be swamped with work once licensed. I’m just wondering if this is something you need to worry about this much at this stage. You’re about to be licensed and probably have several practice years under your belt. You are not a novice trainee in your first year getting few clients and painstakingly counting those hours for APPIC/internship apps.

If you bring up the concern over hours regularly to your supervisor, I also wonder how this will play out in evaluations and how you’d be perceived. I’d keep the requests clear & reasonable, but tactful, few and far between, and after that, you may need to read between the lines and accept the reality if it doesn’t change too much (unless it bothers you enough that you want to leave your postdoc before your contract is up, which may present its own challenges).

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe, they will claim that I am wanting too much and being ungrateful?

 

[msc545]

This is kind of extreme and is making my anxiety and stress about the situation worse than it already is, which are at an all-time high right now.

I'm sorry - that is not my intention at all.

 

[PsyDr]

Why couldn’t they just be up front about it? They could say, “we don’t think this program is a good fit for you, feel free to look for other job opportunities.” That makes communication clear and allows someone to process the situation and move forward. Being passive aggressive by making the situation difficult for a trainee sends mixed messages?

Because psychology emphasizes direct communication while training actually uses indirect communication.

If you address it, you lose.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

Because psychology emphasizes direct communication while training actually uses indirect communication.

If you address it, you lose.

I’m confused? You’re saying don’t address the problem?

 

[PsyDr]

I’m confused? You’re saying don’t address the problem?

I’m saying: they say one thing, and do another. But they’ll punish you, if you do what you say.

It’s like when a professor says, “tell me what you think.” They’ll give you and A, if you regurgitate their position. They’ll give you a C-D if you offer another position.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

I’m saying: they say one thing, and do another. But they’ll punish you, if you do what you say.

It’s like when a professor says, “tell me what you think.” They’ll give you and A, if you regurgitate their position. They’ll give you a C-D if you offer another position.

So it’s best to stay silent on this matter?

 

[msc545]

So it’s best to stay silent on this matter?

Either that or leave, yes. This cannot be resolved by talking - he has already tried that.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

I guess I should leave. They shouldn’t hold it against me.

 

[Dazen]

Respectfully, I would absolutely have the kind of conversation described previously, with a focus on specific next steps and time goals for co-decided outcomes. Leaving now, based on what you've said and the consequences of not finishing out an APA accredited internship, seems like a huge leap and extremely unnecessary until you try to fix the problem.

ETA: I'm also noticing that you're very quick to jump on board with whatever is most recently or forcefully said in this thread. You've also mentioned that you're extremely anxious, which makes sense given the context. I'd advise trying to slow things down, take some time away from this site, talk to trusted peers/friends/professionals in the area, and reflect on what feels right for you in this situation and for the future. Trying to make a decision based on the loudest voice or most common response on an internet forum will likely be a worse outcome than taking time to make your own decision. You're the only one of us who's tangibly experienced what you're describing and who can speak to what you personally need and want out of the next year and your future career.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I would strongly advise talking with your supervisor and/or DCT again before considering leaving. The program has essentially nothing to gain by trying to silently force you out, which is why I don't think it's what they're doing. Odds are, it may just be something as simple as the supervisor or DCT dropping the ball or getting side-tracked in terms of following up about getting you more clinical hours. Or the area in which you're training may have a harder time getting hours setup for you (which you've said seems to be the case for all trainees, not just you).

I'd also add that I don't know of many formal postdocs that get fellows fully up to the level of clinical hours that a staff psychologist would see. In part because they need to leave time for you to do the other things that are a part of your postdoc, like didactics.

There's something to be said for quantity of clinical hours, but there's also something to be said for quality. While you address this issue with your supervisor, you can also focus on getting the most of out of the clinical hours you do have, your other fellowship experiences, and maybe some self-directed professional development in the remaining time during the interim. There are worse things than getting some paid EPPP study time.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

Maybe, a grievance would be the best way to get my needs met?

 

[futureapppsy2]

Maybe, a grievance would be the best way to get my needs met?

This is a nuclear option. Talk to your faculty first and see if you can develop a concrete, actionable plan.

 

[foreverbull]

Given some of your responses, I would step back and take a look at the bigger picture, not get into a cycle of ruminating about the situation and its specifics and jump to extremes.

We lack context in here of some of the specifics at your site and the interpersonal dynamics. We have our own opinions. We make assumptions based on our own experiences.

Thus, I’d suggest stepping back and reflecting. Leaving or filing a grievance sounds very extreme to me based on what you’ve said, but you know more than we do. But you also seem to have intense anxiety about this, which may make you feel like the situation is more dire than it is on the outside.

It is okay to ask for more clients more tuan once—I just meant that you shouldn’t ask every other week…like pestering them about it regularly.

Do you not get along with your supervisor? I guess I’m not seeing why this escalated so quickly to wanting to leave.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

Given some of your responses, I would step back and take a look at the bigger picture, not get into a cycle of ruminating about the situation and its specifics and jump to extremes.

We lack context in here of some of the specifics at your site and the interpersonal dynamics. We have our own opinions. We make assumptions based on our own experiences.

Thus, I’d suggest stepping back and reflecting. Leaving or filing a grievance sounds very extreme to me based on what you’ve said, but you know more than we do. But you also seem to have intense anxiety about this, which may make you feel like the situation is more dire than it is on the outside.

It is okay to ask for more clients more tuan once—I just meant that you shouldn’t ask every other week…like pestering them about it regularly.

Do you not get along with your supervisor? I guess I’m not seeing why this escalated so quickly to wanting to leave.

I get along with the supervisors fine. One of them has a very type A personality and will go through all my documents with a fine toothed comb. The other is pretty laid back. I think their hands are tied to some degree. I also think they aren’t explaining the specific systemic issues that are preventing them from providing adequate experience.

 

[msc545]

I get along with the supervisors fine. One of them has a very type A personality and will go through all my documents with a fine toothed comb. The other is pretty laid back. I think their hands are tied to some degree. I also think they aren’t explaining the specific systemic issues that are preventing them from providing adequate experience.

You may be very much correct that they aren't explaining the "specific systemic issues that are preventing them from providing adequate experience" if such issues actually exist.

Even so, if that is the case, you really have to ask yourself what sort of people place more value on their own need to not be embarrassed vs. the comfort, education, and well-being of a very qualified student.

Something is very wrong here. Listen to your instincts in this situation as they are all you have given the lack of real information.

 

[WisNeuro]

Can we get a train wreck emoji?

 

[WisNeuro]

I see this as a potential future interaction.

Hiring committee member: I see that you left your postdoc early, why was that?

OP: I had an issue where I felt I was not getting enough clinical hours?

HCM: How did you try to resolve the issue before leaving?

OP: I didn't. I just left.

HCM: Oh...ok. We'll get back to you about the job. (slides application into the trash after you leave).

OP, go through the reasonable channels for possible resolution before making a phenomenally bad choice.

 

[summerbabe]

I guess I should leave. They shouldn’t hold it against me.

This is sounds like a terrible decision to make without first taking more proactive steps to see if the situation can be corrected.

A real world parallel would be like feeling one’s spouse/partner was acting different, having a couple of semi-direct conversations about it and then deciding to hastily divorce/breakup without exploring whether simple solutions such as improving communication can remedy things and salvage the relationship.

Is bailing when confronted with adversity or less than ideal circumstances an option? Sure.

But I would want to make sure leaving was objectively the only good option remaining because I’ve exhausted other means.

Postdoc is both a time for continued clinical growth and personal/professional development. Handling adversity will continue to be a part of your professional experience in this field. This sounds like an opportunity to continue to develop those skills, if you try to hang in there and explore this option.

 

[summerbabe]

Even so, if that is the case, you really have to ask yourself what sort of people place more value on their own need to not be embarrassed vs. the comfort, education, and well-being of a very qualified student.

Something is very wrong here. Listen to your instincts in this situation as they are all you have given the lack of real information.

OP has likely been at this postdoc for as little as 2 months or 3.5 months at the most, if postdoc started at the beginning of August.

After accounting for onboarding, getting people up to speed in chosen rotations, and rotation structure (3 months vs 6 months vs whole year), they may not have even had any formal mid-rotation evals where supervisors ask for timesheets to review progress on hours and talk about how things are going.

Combined with things like poor organization or institutional pressures to focus on things besides training, I think there are TONS of other factors that might explain better this situation than the assumption that this site sucks and is abusive to OP and there’s no possibility of redemption.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

This is sounds like a terrible decision to make without first taking more proactive steps to see if the situation can be corrected.

A real world parallel would be like feeling one’s spouse/partner was acting different, having a couple of semi-direct conversations about it and then deciding to hastily divorce/breakup without exploring whether simple solutions such as improving communication can remedy things and salvage the relationship.

I can’t tell you how many clients that I have worked with have abruptly decided to pull the plug on their marriages after a few conflicts with their spouses. The pattern often repeats with their next relationship and so on and so forth.

 

[ClinicalABA]

From a purely logical standpoint, leaving doesn't make a lot of sense. Your concerns have almost exclusively been related to number of clinical hours, rather than overall concerns with supervisors/site. Leaving= at least some period with 0 hours of clinical work, and 0<whatever you are getting now. If it's been more that a few weeks since you spoke with your supervisor about this, request a meeting and a plan- at the very least, ask if there is an realistic chance that things might change. If they say "no way, this is all you're going to get", then VERY carefully determine if the low clinical hours will get in the way of you meeting licensure requirements. If so, come up with an reasonable exit strategy (accounting for how you will get the necessary hours for licensure IF YOU LEAVE). If they give you a plan for more hours or you can't identify a way to meet your licensure requirements elsewhere, I'd advise you to stick it out and finish your obligation to the site. Given the nature of your concerns and how relatively soon it is in the placement, any "nuclear option" just doesn't seem warranted at this point. If you have spoke to your supervisor about this within the last week or two, maybe wait until after thanksgiving to bring it up. You won't see any more clients during the next month or two if you leave, so being planful and careful is definitely indicated as far as meeting your goal of accruing clinical hours.

Some advice from someone who has been around awhile- watch out for weekend rumination on things related to the work week. Sounds like you have plenty of time to deal with this stuff during the work week. Don't spend your weekends on this, when there is likely nothing more that you can accomplish on Saturday/Sunday that you couldn't do M-F 9-5.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

From a purely logical standpoint, leaving doesn't make a lot of sense. Your concerns have almost exclusively been related to number of clinical hours, rather than overall concerns with supervisors/site. Leaving= at least some period with 0 hours of clinical work, and 0<whatever you are getting now. If it's been more that a few weeks since you spoke with your supervisor about this, request a meeting and a plan- at the very least, ask if there is an realistic chance that things might change. If they say "no way, this is all you're going to get", then VERY carefully determine if the low clinical hours will get in the way of you meeting licensure requirements. If so, come up with an reasonable exit strategy (accounting for how you will get the necessary hours for licensure IF YOU LEAVE). If they give you a plan for more hours or you can't identify a way to meet your licensure requirements elsewhere, I'd advise you to stick it out and finish your obligation to the site. Given the nature of your concerns and how relatively soon it is in the placement, any "nuclear option" just doesn't seem warranted at this point. If you have spoke to your supervisor about this within the last week or two, maybe wait until after thanksgiving to bring it up. You won't see any more clients during the next month or two if you leave, so being planful and careful is definitely indicated as far as meeting your goal of accruing clinical hours.

Some advice from someone who has been around awhile- watch out for weekend rumination on things related to the work week. Sounds like you have plenty of time to deal with this stuff during the work week. Don't spend your weekends on this, when there is likely nothing more that you can accomplish on Saturday/Sunday that you couldn't do M-F 9-5.

Luckily, the state that I am trying to obtain licensure in does not have a predetermined number of clinical hours required. An APA postdoc automatically meets all of their requirements. However, an informal, non APA postdoc program/job is a different story. You need to carefully document all your clinical and supervision hours. The board basically wants a full breakdown of your work week and you have to complete a ton of paperwork. If I did leave and try to make up the hours elsewhere, it would be a nightmare for licensing.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

This is sounds like a terrible decision to make without first taking more proactive steps to see if the situation can be corrected.

A real world parallel would be like feeling one’s spouse/partner was acting different, having a couple of semi-direct conversations about it and then deciding to hastily divorce/breakup without exploring whether simple solutions such as improving communication can remedy things and salvage the relationship.

Is bailing when confronted with adversity or less than ideal circumstances an option? Sure.

But I would want to make sure leaving was objectively the only good option remaining because I’ve exhausted other means.

Postdoc is both a time for continued clinical growth and personal/professional development. Handling adversity will continue to be a part of your professional experience in this field. This sounds like an opportunity to continue to develop those skills, if you try to hang in there and explore this option.

I honestly did not expect to be facing these problems this time last year. I had a somewhat realistic vision for what my postdoc year would be like. That ideal is completely obliterated. I keep asking myself, “how did I get into this mess?”

It really irks me when I hear my colleagues from internship and postdoc lament about how busy they are or talk about all the amazing opportunities given to them. That’s what I would have wanted but for reasons unknown it didn’t work out.

As I said before, it feels like I basically took a gap year and just sat around doing nothing related to the practice of psychology. I am afraid of burning out due to the lack of work.

 

[Shiori]

Postdoc is an opportunity to learn a lot more than just clinical skills. You are being gently pushed to practice some of those other skills. You will have many, many opportunities to learn clinical skills. Postdoc is just one year out of a potentially very long career. Right now, you have an opportunity to practice professional development skills in a slightly more secure environment. For example, I practiced professional communication skills that served me well when I was negotiating for my current job. Previously, I used a lot of "hint and hope" communication. My mom likes to tell me I found my "big girl" voice. I can be kind AND direct.

Another skill is learning to be proactive. I don't need to wait on my supervisor to tell me what to do. I have some downtime right now. I'm developing programming. I am researching training opportunities. I am making auto-text for my templates. I'm digging into the current literature about the things I'm excited about. If I have downtime, I don't stop being a psychologist. It's an opportunity to come up for air and hone other skills. I am prepping for when (not if) burnout creeps in. I'll have other skills to lean on like admin, supervision, leadership, and program development when I need a break.

It might be worth sitting with why it's so important to be busy right now. And busy in one specific way. Are you afraid you won't be competitive on the job market? Do you need a certain number of direct hours? The existential dread of being alone with one's thoughts? Something else? No need to actually answer! It's something to think through though. It might make your conversation with your supervisor more productive. If your postdoc stays slower with client hours, what else might be a good use of your time, professionally? There are so many ways to be busy.

 

[smalltownpsych]

This thread reminds me so much of a similar thread about six months or so ago. I wonder if that poster stuck out their postdoc. While I was going through training, I had an understanding that I would be pushed to the psychological max in several ways and that was part of learning my limits and growing and developing resilience as preparation for independent practice as a psychologist. I was also strongly encouraged to use psychological resources such as therapy to facilitate this process. It sounds like you have some extra time on your hands to invest in improving your ability to manage stress. Even if it’s the stress of not working as much as you would like. Another point, ten clinical hours is not a catastrophe, zero would be. Another thing to work in on is how to separate from your anxiety driven thought processes so they don’t adversly impact your work or work relationships.

 

[WisNeuro]

This thread reminds me so much of a similar thread about six months or so ago. I wonder if that poster stuck out their postdoc. While I was going through training, I had an understanding that I would be pushed to the psychological max in several ways and that was part of learning my limits and growing and developing resilience as preparation for independent practice as a psychologist. I was also strongly encouraged to use psychological resources such as therapy to facilitate this process. It sounds like you have some extra time on your hands to invest in improving your ability to manage stress. Even if it’s the stress of not working as much as you would like. Another point, ten clinical hours is not a catastrophe, zero would be. Another thing to work in on is how to separate from your anxiety driven thought processes so they don’t adversly impact your work or work relationships.

I'm somewhat convinced that particular poster was trying out some weird performance art in that thread.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

I see this as a potential future interaction.

Hiring committee member: I see that you left your postdoc early, why was that?

OP: I had an issue where I felt I was not getting enough clinical hours?

HCM: How did you try to resolve the issue before leaving?

OP: I didn't. I just left.

HCM: Oh...ok. We'll get back to you about the job. (slides application into the trash after you leave).

OP, go through the reasonable channels for possible resolution before making a phenomenally bad choice.

Yeah, this may very well happen.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

It might be worth sitting with why it's so important to be busy right now. And busy in one specific way. Are you afraid you won't be competitive on the job market? Do you need a certain number of direct hours? The existential dread of being alone with one's thoughts? Something else? No need to actually answer! It's something to think through though. It might make your conversation with your supervisor more productive. If your postdoc stays slower with client hours, what else might be a good use of your time, professionally? There are so many ways to be busy.

I think it's a combination of the factors you mentioned as well as other reasons that I am not aware of now. I enjoy being busy, as it keeps me occupied. When I have too much downtime, I tend to brood on negative thoughts. I also think not having much direct clinical contact makes me feel like there's no purpose for my being here, as I am not able to utilize the clinical skills that I spent years acquiring.

I am unsure that the situation will change dramatically. I am just feeling despondent about my career right now due to the lack of clinical training.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

This thread reminds me so much of a similar thread about six months or so ago. I wonder if that poster stuck out their postdoc. While I was going through training, I had an understanding that I would be pushed to the psychological max in several ways and that was part of learning my limits and growing and developing resilience as preparation for independent practice as a psychologist. I was also strongly encouraged to use psychological resources such as therapy to facilitate this process. It sounds like you have some extra time on your hands to invest in improving your ability to manage stress. Even if it’s the stress of not working as much as you would like. Another point, ten clinical hours is not a catastrophe, zero would be. Another thing to work in on is how to separate from your anxiety driven thought processes so they don’t adversly impact your work or work relationships.

I wasn't anticipating to be completely overloaded during postdoc. However, I was expecting a moderately high caseload. To me, 12-15 direct clinical hours was what I was expecting. The number that I am at is way below. Interns and other fellows are also a bit puzzled by the lack of work being given to me and they find it incredibly odd, overall.

 

[erg923]

I wasn't anticipating to be completely overloaded during postdoc. However, I was expecting a moderately high caseload. To me, 12-15 direct clinical hours was what I was expecting. The number that I am at is way below. Interns and other fellows are also a bit puzzled by the lack of work being given to me and they find it incredibly odd, overall.

A post-doc training program that is APA approved (and has been so for sometime?) should not be having this issue. Like, at all. It's mid November. You should have been off and running well more than a month ago. And it sounds like a very, very busy place. No? I don't think the overly dramatic step of just leaving or just assuming they think you suck is reasonable. But... something is going on. And its doesn't bode well for the site and/or primary supervisor.

Does your supervisor like her job and happy there? It sounds like maybe they aren't if they feel they have to keep things for themselves and not train someone that they (presumably) volunteered to train. If they are too Type A to share and subsequently train, they probably shouldn't be a supervisor in the program. You can give this feedback too, if you feel it's accurate?

 

[erg923]

Postdoc is an opportunity to learn a lot more than just clinical skills. You are being gently pushed to practice some of those other skills. You will have many, many opportunities to learn clinical skills. Postdoc is just one year out of a potentially very long career. Right now, you have an opportunity to practice professional development skills in a slightly more secure environment. For example, I practiced professional communication skills that served me well when I was negotiating for my current job. Previously, I used a lot of "hint and hope" communication. My mom likes to tell me I found my "big girl" voice. I can be kind AND direct.

Another skill is learning to be proactive. I don't need to wait on my supervisor to tell me what to do. I have some downtime right now. I'm developing programming. I am researching training opportunities. I am making auto-text for my templates. I'm digging into the current literature about the things I'm excited about. If I have downtime, I don't stop being a psychologist. It's an opportunity to come up for air and hone other skills. I am prepping for when (not if) burnout creeps in. I'll have other skills to lean on like admin, supervision, leadership, and program development when I need a break.

It might be worth sitting with why it's so important to be busy right now. And busy in one specific way. Are you afraid you won't be competitive on the job market? Do you need a certain number of direct hours? The existential dread of being alone with one's thoughts? Something else? No need to actually answer! It's something to think through though. It might make your conversation with your supervisor more productive. If your postdoc stays slower with client hours, what else might be a good use of your time, professionally? There are so many ways to be busy.

The bottom line is that this seems to be a post-doctoral training program with a primary clinical service emphasis. Psychologists (and every other health service profession on the planet) train by seeing patients. And hopefully alot of them...or at least up to "full-time" at that level. This is not happening. Post-docs (or interns) should not have to essentially beg for clinical work/time. That's the inherent and assumed responsibility of an established "training program." That's the whole point of being there. Something is wrong. If it's not intentional, it is at least a supervisor issue that needs to be addressed yesterday/ASAP.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

A post-doc training program that is APA approved (and has been so for sometime?) should not be having this issue. Like, at all. It's mid November. You should have been off an running well more than a month ago. And it sounds like a very, very busy place. No? I don't think the overly dramatic step of just leaving or just assuming they think you suck is reasonable. But... something is going on. And its doesn't bode well for the site and/or primary supervisor.

Does your supervisor like her job and happy there? It sounds like maybe they aren't if they feel they have to keep things for themselves and not train someone that they (presumably) volunteered to train. If they are too Type A to share and subsequently train, they probably shouldn't be a supervisor in the program. You can give this feedback too, if you feel its accurate?

That's what doesn't make sense about this current situation. The program is well-established and has been APA-accredited for quite some time. Past fellows have felt satisfied with the quantity and quality of clinical training given. I have never heard anyone say that they were bored during the training year.

 

[erg923]

That's what doesn't make sense about this current situation. The program is well-established and has been APA-accredited for quite some time. Past fellows have felt satisfied with the quantity and quality of clinical training given. I have never heard anyone say that they were bored during the training year.

Agree. See my response above this one. Other rotations work well/don't have this problem? Supervisor issue? Seems like it?

 

[msc545]

OP has likely been at this postdoc for as little as 2 months or 3.5 months at the most, if postdoc started at the beginning of August.

After accounting for onboarding, getting people up to speed in chosen rotations, and rotation structure (3 months vs 6 months vs whole year), they may not have even had any formal mid-rotation evals where supervisors ask for timesheets to review progress on hours and talk about how things are going.

Combined with things like poor organization or institutional pressures to focus on things besides training, I think there are TONS of other factors that might explain better this situation than the assumption that this site sucks and is abusive to OP and there’s no possibility of redemption.

You are ignoring the fact that they worked things out for everyone else *except the OP*, and they have ignored the OP's requests to remedy the situation.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

Agree. See my response above this one. Other rotations work well/don't have this problem? Supervisor issue? Seems like it?

The other rotations definitely DO NOT have this issue. My supervisor has several intakes scheduled this week!

 

[msc545]

Postdoc is an opportunity to learn a lot more than just clinical skills. You are being gently pushed to practice some of those other skills. You will have many, many opportunities to learn clinical skills. Postdoc is just one year out of a potentially very long career. Right now, you have an opportunity to practice professional development skills in a slightly more secure environment. For example, I practiced professional communication skills that served me well when I was negotiating for my current job. Previously, I used a lot of "hint and hope" communication. My mom likes to tell me I found my "big girl" voice. I can be kind AND direct.

Another skill is learning to be proactive. I don't need to wait on my supervisor to tell me what to do. I have some downtime right now. I'm developing programming. I am researching training opportunities. I am making auto-text for my templates. I'm digging into the current literature about the things I'm excited about. If I have downtime, I don't stop being a psychologist. It's an opportunity to come up for air and hone other skills. I am prepping for when (not if) burnout creeps in. I'll have other skills to lean on like admin, supervision, leadership, and program development when I need a break.

It might be worth sitting with why it's so important to be busy right now. And busy in one specific way. Are you afraid you won't be competitive on the job market? Do you need a certain number of direct hours? The existential dread of being alone with one's thoughts? Something else? No need to actually answer! It's something to think through though. It might make your conversation with your supervisor more productive. If your postdoc stays slower with client hours, what else might be a good use of your time, professionally? There are so many ways to be busy.

The OP spends his "spare" time, which has a lot of, reading books. At work. Not seeing clients because he has very few while others have many. Why encourage him to keep this up? This is humiliating and abusive.

 

[Shiori]

The bottom line is that this seem to be a post-doctoral training program with a primary clinical service emphasis. Psychologists (and every other health service professionals on the planet) train by seeing patients. And hopefully alot of them...or at least up to "full-time" at that level. This is not happening. Post-docs (or even interns), should not have to essentially beg for clinical work/time. That's the inherent and assumed responsibility of an established "training program. " Something is wrong. If it's not intentional, it is at least a supervisor issue that needs to be addressed ASAP.

Let me make my point clearer. The OP should follow the advice given. However, even if nothing changes, their career isn't over. I was focused on helping ease worries because many others had great, practical solutions.

 

[erg923]

You are ignoring the fact that they worked things out for everyone else *except the OP*, and they have ignored the OP's requests to remedy the situation.

Look man, I don't know if you are some kind of old man or a just a training newbie? But we don't know enough about anything here to suggest OP just abandon their post-doc. This would lead to undue harm on both sides.

I agree something is "off" here more some than just "Oh, I'm sorry" or "We are slow ramping up." But some of your advice is ill-advised, jaded, utterly ridiculous and likely to lead to undue harm/risk to the OP. Understand?

 

[mind_over_matter277]

I have brought this issue up to my supervisor numerous times. Over and over again. She keeps saying that it will change eventually. However, it is all within her control. If this is a supervisor-related issue, then maybe a grievance is necessary? I am sorry for thinking about using the last option available.

Feel free to DM me for more detailed information about this situation.

 

[msc545]

Look man, I don't know if you are some kind of old man or a just a newbie? But we don't know enough about anything here to suggest OP just abandon their post-doc. This would lead to undue harm on both sides.

I agree something is "off" here more some than just "Oh, I'm sorry" or "We are slow ramping up" But some of your advice is ill-advised, jaded, utterly ridiculous and likely to lead to undue harm/risk to the OP.

I am neither old nor new, not that it matters. You are entitled to your opinions, and I am entitled to mine. I think you are wrong. Encouraging this guy to stay in an abusive situation is in itself abusive.

 

[erg923]

I am neither old nor new, not that it matters. You are entitled to your opinions, and I am entitled to mine. I think you are wrong. Encouraging this guy to stay in an abusive situation is in itself abusive.

I choose to think you are an "old man."

 

[Dazen]

Small point, but has the OP disclosed their pronouns? I don't remember them doing so and would prefer we not default to using "him" indiscriminately.

 

[msc545]

Small point, but has the OP disclosed their pronouns? I don't remember them doing so and would prefer we not default to using "him" indiscriminately.

Given the gravity of the situation that the OP finds himself in, your focus on pronouns is unspeakably inappropriate and downright stupid. I am sure if the OP were worried about it he would tell us. Find something constructive to say, or stay out of this please as your petty concerns are just a distraction.

 

[msc545]

I choose to think you are an "old man."

I choose to think you are an arrogant idiot who cannot tolerate dissension. I am not the first person here to say this.

 

[Dazen]

Given the gravity of the situation that the OP finds himself in, your focus on pronouns is unspeakably inappropriate and downright stupid. I am sure if the OP were worried about it he would tell us. Find something constructive to say, or stay out of this please as your petty concerns are just a distraction.

My constructive point is that jumping from hearing that everyone in a certain rotation is struggling to get cases to assuming the OP is being abused and that giving well-intentioned career advice on an internet forum is perpetuating abuse is equally inappropriate and stupid. I can't imagine anyone in this thread has enough information about what is actually happening in the OP's prac to allege this and worry that this thread is causing undue harm to the OP both by increasing their emotional instability and potentially causing them to make a hasty decision with lasting, negative career implications.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

Look man, I don't know if you are some kind of old man or a just a training newbie? But we don't know enough about anything here to suggest OP just abandon their post-doc. This would lead to undue harm on both sides.

I agree something is "off" here more some than just "Oh, I'm sorry" or "We are slow ramping up." But some of your advice is ill-advised, jaded, utterly ridiculous and likely to lead to undue harm/risk to the OP. Understand?

I just want to find a way to resolve this situation. I would like to stay here and actually obtain rewarding experiences. I don't like the idea of just trying to stick it out hoping the situation will magically improve. This year will probably just drag on with all this free time in my schedule.