PhD/PsyD Quitting Postdoc?

[OMGabilify]

Hi everyone! First-time poster here.. I'm currently in a non-accredited clinical postdoc in NY. I originally accepted it as it involves working with a patient population I wanted more training in, the staff were all incredibly pleasant include the postdocs at the time of my interview, location met my family needs, etc. However, it's been 2-3 months and I realized I don't feel passionate about this work, I'm working a lot outside of my scheduled hours to meet the demands (no work-life balance), I don't feel supported by the staff (staff are nice but they are also overworked and I feel my concerns are dismissed), etc.

I'm brainstorming what I should do. Part of me wants to look for another position in a setting I've enjoyed before such as a VA or other hospital setting but I'm concerned about the consequences of that such as how that might affect my licensing hours if at all. Any advice would be helpful. Thank you!

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[WisNeuro]

Honestly, at this point I'd just stick it out to get your hours in. You're at the point where you can actually start looking at VA jobs (the credentialing/onboarding process for staff hires can be LOOONNNGGG). And, in a couple months, you can start looking at non-VA jobs. The way that credentialing and onboarding go, you're not really getting much by cutting and running now. At a minimum, a non-VA job will need at least three months to get you going, unless you're hired on as an unlicensed provider who still needs supervision, and needing that will cut down on possible jobs that will hire you.

 

[cara susanna]

I can say that many VAs are having difficulties hiring psychologists right now, so I imagine you'll be competitive.

 

[WisNeuro]

I would also look at it in the lens of license portability. I know many people who moved to a state that they had not intended to, for a variety of reasons, and now practice there as well. In that frame, I'd want to have as much flexibility as I could get in the short-term, to have as much flexibility as I could get in the long term.

 

[OMGabilify]

Honestly, at this point I'd just stick it out to get your hours in. You're at the point where you can actually start looking at VA jobs (the credentialing/onboarding process for staff hires can be LOOONNNGGG). And, in a couple months, you can start looking at non-VA jobs. The way that credentialing and onboarding go, you're not really getting much by cutting and running now. At a minimum, a non-VA job will need at least three months to get you going, unless you're hired on as an unlicensed provider who still needs supervision, and needing that will cut down on possible jobs that will hire you.

100% agree on the onboarding; I have a VA psychologist friend who was finally on staff four months AFTER their initial projected date! Thank you for the advice. Sticking it out isn't ideal but neither is postponing my license

 

[OMGabilify]

I can say that many VAs are having difficulties hiring psychologists right now, so I imagine you'll be competitive.

My hope and dream!

 

[WisNeuro]

My hope and dream!

Speaking from experience, being a trainee in the VA and being a staff member in the VA are two very different worlds. It can work pretty well for some, but about 80% of the people I trained and worked with in the VA are now mostly in private practice, and several more in non-VA healthcare systems.

 

[OMGabilify]

Speaking from experience, being a trainee in the VA and being a staff member in the VA are two very different worlds. It can work pretty well for some, but about 80% of the people I trained and worked with in the VA are now mostly in private practice, and several more in non-VA healthcare systems.

Wow! That's good information. I've been going off perspectives of former trainees including myself. I'll definitely reach out to some VA staff I know for their perspectives now!

 

[WisNeuro]

Wow! That's good information. I've been going off perspectives of former trainees including myself. I'll definitely reach out to some VA staff I know for their perspectives now!

You can also read through the VA venting thread here on SDN. There are a lot of people who are either still in the VA, or left the VA on SDN.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

VA is not a bad gig at all when first starting out, and people also of course make a career out of it. With the new widespread special rates, salaries also look to be improving. Once you get closer to mid-career, the predictable work schedule, possibility of an alternate tour of duty (e.g., 4x10), and lack of any noncompete making having a side gig pretty easy. Downsides are pretty evident in the VA venting thread and relate pretty heavily to administration/leadership and various nonsensical requirements that seem akin to babysitting people with decades of education.

As for the postdoc situation, I agree that sticking it out is probably the easiest/safest route. As was said, it's not unusual for onboard with VA to take 4-6 months or longer. I started seriously looking for jobs in probably January of my last postdoc year, which lined up well with how long it ultimately took a VA to hire me.

 

[summerbabe]

Wow! That's good information. I've been going off perspectives of former trainees including myself. I'll definitely reach out to some VA staff I know for their perspectives now!

A couple big differences:

As a trainee, you get hand selected cases that a good supervisor will have screened and believes are a) pleasant b) wanting to do actual therapy c) you can schedule them when you want

As a staff member, if you're in BHIP, you'll have ~25.5 hours of slots per week and it's whoever comes through the door. People who want therapy, people whose family want to get therapy (but they don't) people whose psychiatrist wants them to do therapy (but they don't) and people who probably shouldn't be in mental health (seeking or attempting to maintain disability).

You'll also need to do a bunch of things like clinical reminders and may have difficulty scheduling patients for actual care if access is a major problem (e.g., see somebody for 6 weekly apts and then not again for 3 months).

Speciality care positions are often more shielded from some of these pressures, as are many positions within larger medical programs like CLC, home based primary care, polytrauma rehab, spinal cord injury, blind rehab, etc if those are of interest.

 

[cara susanna]

Yes, I would definitely recommend a specialty clinic position over general BHIP for that reason. I think the reason I still like my job is that I'm now 50% specialty.

 

[summerbabe]

Yes, I would definitely recommend a specialty clinic position over general BHIP for that reason. I think the reason I still like my job is that I'm now 50% specialty.

One reason why I'm still in VA is because I've avoided BHIP.

To the OP, BHIP positions will be the most readily available since that has the most patient demand and also staff turnover.

Speciality positions often have more internal applicants (such as BHIP folks looking to move laterally) so there may be more competition but can still be attained for new professionals.

Depending on the facility, some positions like HBPC, CLC and acute inpatient may have zero interest and go unfilled for long periods. Those can be really great places to start a VA career and if you like it, provide a launching point to get to your ultimate specialty.

I started in acute inpatient and that position had been unfilled for literally years, stayed almost 2 years and then moved into my current specialty role.

 

[Shiori]

I will say I like BHIP at the moment. I do have a chill supervisor who doesn't micromanage me and trusts my judgement. I also really like my BHIP team members. We're all on the same page, and this helps get veterans where they need to be with less stress. Having robust Whole Health programming, knowledgeable peer support, and a good LEC helps too. This keeps most of the veterans primarily interested in lifelong supportive therapy off my caseload.

 

[summerbabe]

I will say I like BHIP at the moment. I do have a chill supervisor who doesn't micromanage me and trusts my judgement. I also really like my BHIP team members. We're all on the same page, and this helps get veterans where they need to be with less stress. Having robust Whole Health programming, knowledgeable peer support, and a good LEC helps too. This keeps most of the veterans primarily interested in lifelong supportive therapy off my caseload.

I can conclude with absolute certainty that we have not been at the same VAs lol!

That sounds actually sustainable so props to your supervisor, broader MH/hospital leadership, and you/your team for building and trying to maintain this, while giving veterans what they actually need.

 

[quickpsych]

As others have said, I'd just stick it out. You have a post-doc , looks good on CV, some states/jurisdictions still require at least 1 year of post doc for licensure, and you're 25% of the way through that year.

Plus like many internships, some post-docs have built in time you can dedicate to licensure studying/prep.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

As others have said, I'd just stick it out. You have a post-doc , looks good on CV, some states/jurisdictions still require at least 1 year of post doc for licensure, and you're 25% of the way through that year.

Plus like many internships, some post-docs have built in time you can dedicate to licensure studying/prep.

This is a good point. If your postdoc provides you some time and support for licensure prep, that's something you may not get as readily in a VA job. The VA would probably pay more than a postdoc does, but the position would be contingent on you getting licensed, which could add extra pressure.

It may also be easier in the future to track down people to fill out licensure paperwork RE: your supervised experience if you had a postdoc, even informal, relative to a job (particularly in VA, where it's not unusual for direct supervisors and service line leadership to rotate fairly frequently).

 

[quickpsych]

This is a good point. If your postdoc provides you some time and support for licensure prep, that's something you may not get as readily in a VA job. The VA would probably pay more than a postdoc does, but the position would be contingent on you getting licensed, which could add extra pressure.

It may also be easier in the future to track down people to fill out licensure paperwork RE: your supervised experience if you had a postdoc, even informal, relative to a job (particularly in VA, where it's not unusual for direct supervisors and service line leadership to rotate fairly frequently).

Also good points.

I forgot to add too that some post-docs offer stipends to cover study/exam expenses. I had most of my EPPP exam fee paid for, for example.