the problem with asians

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Chankovsky

I recently read an article detailing the competition asian pre-meds have to go through to get into medical school. Asians make up 2% of the U.S. population; however, they make up about 25% of the medical class on average. Therefore, the competition between asian applicants to get into these limited slots are extremely high. Thus, some well qualified applicants do not get in, while some under-represented minority with lower numbers do. As an asian pre-med, I find these stastistics a sobering reminder of our instituion's bereaucratic commitment to affirmative action. Any other asian's out there who find it difficult to stomach the fact that we have the steepest climb?
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We (I am Indian-American) don't have the steepest climb at all. African Americans by far have the toughest road to med school.
 
So long as our K-12 education system is unequal, we must have affirmative action at the university level.
 
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its all relative. asian have a steep climb to get into med school. URMs have a steep climb to get to the point that they can apply. both have it tough.
 
Also I wouldn't put too much stock into numbers. To be a doctor you need to learn a lot of stuff but also you have to have compassion for other people.
 
It depends. Asians also have the luck at not having to prove themselves, for what little consolation that is.

Asian girls are also very generally cute. Japanese girls are very sexually liberated. :) Not Japanese American.. Japanese.

Though on average though, even being an Asian myself, I am very suspicious upon the motivation of most fellow Asians desires to become a doctor.

Among my premed peer across several campuses. I KNOW a majority are just doing it because a) it's expected of them and/or b) Bet your ass mommy and daddy are pushing them to! Also in the Asian community, especially the hen-peck sewing circle called the Korean community, it is GREAT bragging rights among the parents that their child is in Medical School.
 
I don't want to get involved in a heated argument, but this is my .02. I know a lot of Asian countries only allow a small segment of their population into college. This is not determined in just high school, but from early on in your academic career. I know for example about only 4% of the Chinese actually marticulate into college. So before you start complaining about how America runs things, I think it is far better than the way it is run in most of the native Asian countries. Secondly, URM's are accepted because medicine is not about numbers at all. People are going to go to a doctor (especially a primary) who is from their culture. Living in a melting pot culture, medicine has to account for this. Already, URM's even with more going into medicine, only make up a small percentage of physicians even though their ethnic group makes up a large % of the population. If you are Asian you should know this is a fact of life. I have been in oriental grocery stores & know asians shop there for a lot of groceries that cannot be found at other stores. Now if you can tell me that we should not account for those stores to make a profit in our country and make all the asians go to other places to shop just because there are other chains like Wal-mart with $$$$ behind them, I would think you are nuts. People go, where they feel comfortable & accustomed. Just like it is with business, so it is with medicine. People could care less about your GPA or MCAT. They want you to understand them. If you can't understand this principle and throw up #'s and race all the time, you should live in a culture that does not account for its diversity.
 
ahem. people should go to a doctor who will give them the best care. The doctor's race shouldn't matter.

Admissions is a different game. Students should be judged as 'qualified applicants' if they succeed within the circumstances surrounding their academic history and peer groups they have had most contact with. While this is not true 'affirmitive action', there usually is a direct correlation between factors such as economic inequality that and ethnicity and race.

That being said, I resent the implication that Asian-Americans are incapable of being truly American. Im fairly confident that I can be an effective doctor whether I practice in Topeka or the Bronx. The patient will feel comfortable with me when he gets competent care regardless of my skin color. If not, he or she can choose another doctor... there are plenty of sick people to go around.
 
Originally posted by kingcer0x
ahem. people should go to a doctor who will give them the best care. The doctor's race shouldn't matter.
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We might bleed the same, laugh the same, die the same, our body doesn't necessarily work exactly the same.

There ARE some distinct traits across ethnicities that are oftentimes not caught by doctors outside of that race (i.e. the differential diagnosis of glacouma (sp?) in Asians).

And as an above poster mentioned, cultural knowledge and sensitivity are very important especially amongst prideful or hurt people.
 
Originally posted by kingcer0x
ahem. people should go to a doctor who will give them the best care. The doctor's race shouldn't matter.

Admissions is a different game. Students should be judged as 'qualified applicants' if they succeed within the circumstances surrounding their academic history and peer groups they have had most contact with. While this is not true 'affirmitive action', there usually is a direct correlation between factors such as economic inequality that and ethnicity and race.

That being said, I resent the implication that Asian-Americans are incapable of being truly American. Im fairly confident that I can be an effective doctor whether I practice in Topeka or the Bronx. The patient will feel comfortable with me when he gets competent care regardless of my skin color. If not, he or she can choose another doctor... there are plenty of sick people to go around.
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You can be as naive as you want, but patients don't care if you are a good doctor or not. They are going to go where they feel comfortable. Before you get on your soap box, would you be willing to go into an all black, hispanic, or white low income ghetto and practice. I doubt it, and if you are, you are one of the few. I have talked to physicians who are URM's whose soul purpose is to serve these groups of people. I am stating the facts. You can be a good physician or not, but you are pretty naive to think people who dropped out of high school are really going to come to your clinic because you are the best doctor in the state according to some poll released in the local press. People are going to come because of word of mouth or because they need help. Now if you go into a speciality, that is completely different. I am talking specifically about primary care.
 
I agree, but the amount of people who will request a doctor based solely out of race or ethnicity is not that high i'm sure.

As far as the 'our bodies don't work the same' statement, just cause your an Asian doctor doesn't mean you know your own body that well. Any doctor can factor ethnicity into diagnosis. Many do when diagnosing diabetes I'm told.

Sorry, I dont budge when it comes to race.
 
"We are confronted primarily with a moral issue. It is as old as the Scriptures and it is as clear as the American Constitution. The heart of the question is whether all Americans are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities, whether we are going to treat our fellow Americans as we want to be treated."
 
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Originally posted by kingcer0x
I agree, but the amount of people who will request a doctor based solely out of race or ethnicity is not that high i'm sure.

As far as the 'our bodies don't work the same' statement, just cause your an Asian doctor doesn't mean you know your own body that well. Any doctor can factor ethnicity into diagnosis. Many do when diagnosing diabetes I'm told.

Sorry, I dont budge when it comes to race.
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I agree with you TTSD.

I come from two race backgrounds and that is probably why I feel so passionate about the subject.

THERE IS DIFFERENCES... & if you can't budge about the race issue you won't notice these differences.

You can't tell me people don't handle situations differently. Coming from two different heritages, I know that people do. I know saying one thing to one group can be taken as a cut down when it means something totally opposite to another group of people. Unless you have come from a diverse background like myself, I would hesitate in saying that there aren't differences, even in religion, social, and ethnicity that influence the communication factors between physican and patient.
 
You can be as naive as you want, but patients don't care if you are a good doctor or not. They are going to go where they feel comfortable. Before you get on your soap box, would you be willing to go into an all black, hispanic, or white low income ghetto and practice. I doubt it, and if you are, you are one of the few. I have talked to physicians who are URM's whose soul purpose is to serve these groups of people. I am stating the facts. You can be a good physician or not, but you are pretty naive to think people who dropped out of high school are really going to come to your clinic because you are the best doctor in the state according to some poll released in the local press. People are going to come because of word of mouth or because they need help. Now if you go into a speciality, that is completely different. I am talking specifically about primary care.
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well, ok... i can see how a primary care doc of the same ethnicity as the potential patient is likely to draw the patient in for a visit more than the succesful doc... but if you can get a patient to trust you in any way, he will come back. And I would have no problem practicing medicine to people of any socioeconomic status, provided i could get them to trust me in the first place. Thats where the attitudes towards race come into play i guess...
 
Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki
"We are confronted primarily with a moral issue. It is as old as the Scriptures and it is as clear as the American Constitution. The heart of the question is whether all Americans are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities, whether we are going to treat our fellow Americans as we want to be treated."
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I have seen many people who have been sincerely nice unknowingly put their foot in their mouth. I don't think it is an issue about whether we treat others better or not. It is more an issue of completely understanding someones heritage and culture. Just like a woman sometimes goes to a woman OB/GYN because she understands woman issues; but that doesn't mean all women prefer women OB/GYN's. However, some do. The same about doctors. Some patients perfer people from their own culture.
 
I agree with you TTSD.

I come from two race backgrounds and that is probably why I feel so passionate about the subject.

THERE IS DIFFERENCES... & if you can't budge about the race issue you won't notice these differences.

You can't tell me people don't handle situations differently. Coming from two different heritages, I know that people do. I know saying one thing to one group can be taken as a cut down when it means something totally opposite to another group of people. Unless you have come from a diverse background like myself, I would hesitate in saying that there aren't differences, even in religion, social, and ethnicity that influence the communication factors between physican and patient. agree with you TTSD.
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I never said people aren't different, but generalizing traits about ethnic groups is dangerous. Everyone is different within the ethnic groups also...
 
I think affirmitive action is good (it doesn't help me bc im not an URM), but i think economic background should also be looked at as well as race. If an URM applicant comes from an affluent family I believe they have had every oppurtonity that anyone else could have had.

Also even though URMs may slightly lower standards of getting into med school they still have to pass the same board and licensing exams as everyone else does.
 
Originally posted by kingcer0x
well, ok... i can see how a primary care doc of the same ethnicity as the potential patient is likely to draw the patient in for a visit more than the succesful doc... but if you can get a patient to trust you in any way, he will come back. And I would have no problem practicing medicine to people of any socioeconomic status, provided i could get them to trust me in the first place. Thats where the attitudes towards race come into play i guess...
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You are right. I know a minority physician who is one of the most loved physicians in our community. He has not only drawn in people from his background, but people from all over, just because he has practiced what you are exactly addressing. His patients have learned to trust him, and have overcome the racial barrier. I completely agree with you about this.
 
Originally posted by Giving My .02
You can be as naive as you want, but patients don't care if you are a good doctor or not. They are going to go where they feel comfortable. Before you get on your soap box, would you be willing to go into an all black, hispanic, or white low income ghetto and practice. I doubt it, and if you are, you are one of the few. I have talked to physicians who are URM's whose soul purpose is to serve these groups of people. I am stating the facts. You can be a good physician or not, but you are pretty naive to think people who dropped out of high school are really going to come to your clinic because you are the best doctor in the state according to some poll released in the local press. People are going to come because of word of mouth or because they need help. Now if you go into a speciality, that is completely different. I am talking specifically about primary care.
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Why not take your position to the next logical step and just say that the demographics of medical schools should reflect the general population? After all, if patients tend to go to doctors of the same race, and if this is to be a justification for quotas, then in the interest of fair healthcare for all races (i.e. same ratio of possible doctors for patients of all races), then that would be the next logical step, right?
 
Yes, separate but equal health care practitioners for each race.
 
Originally posted by kingcer0x
I never said people aren't different, but generalizing traits about ethnic groups is dangerous. Everyone is different within the ethnic groups also...
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You are so right about this too. For example, so many people assume that African Americans and Africans come from the same background because of the color of their skin. They couldn't be so wrong. In addition, social class is a major influence in culture. I guess this is something physicians slowly must learn how to pick up on and handle in their practice. Unless, you come from certain backgrounds, I believe this can only be learned through experience.
 
Originally posted by Street Philosopher
Why not take your position to the next logical step and just say that the demographics of medical schools should reflect the general population? After all, if patients tend to go to doctors of the same race, and if this is to be a justification for quotas, then in the interest of fair healthcare for all races (i.e. same ratio of possible doctors for patients of all races), then that would be the next logical step, right?
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I sense a sarcastic tone. I know there is affirmative action. I think it is good, but I don't think it helps everyone. For example, I had a very intellent friend who was a minority. She wanted to go to a particular school, but they got most of their minorities from a certain program where they were admitted in a joint program. Since most of their "slots" were filled, the admissions office told my friend she had little chance of being accepted their. Funny thing she got in at, at least 2 top 15 schools. You see the affirmative action helps some, but sometimes it leaves a lot of even better qualified minority applicants in the dust.
 
Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki
Yes, separate but equal health care practitioners for each race.
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Separate but equal never works. We all know that.
 
Originally Posted by Giving My .02 I believe this can only be learned through experience.
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Im looking forward to it.

Im glad we could agree on some things... Im really not naive, its just that I don't the way things are influence the way I want to be.
 
No sarcasm, I just wanted to push you to see what your principles really were and to see if they could be defended when applied to their logical conclusion. I think a lot of people have a potpurri approach to defending affirmative action, which sound nice and good but are each based on fundamentally flawed principles. The next trick is to pick and choose applications of these principles, conveniently ignoring less favorable consequences. Just playing devil's advocate here.
 
Originally posted by kingcer0x
Im looking forward to it.

Im glad we could agree on some things... Im really not naive, its just that I don't the way things are influence the way I want to be.
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I am going to bed, so sorry if I don't respond after this.

I am glad we could agree also. Honestly, thinking back on our conversation, I think if there were more people like you from all backgrounds, physicians would be 10X better than they are. We need determined individuals willing to push differences aside & serve people because that is what they do best. Good luck to you!
 
Let's just leave it at this:

Yes, people often do choose doctors just as much as they are skilled as for the color of their skin and background. If you refuse to believe that, I'm sorry to say you are naive in how the world works.

Equal but seperate does NOT work.

A certain amount of affirmative action IS necessary as much as we who are in the rat race for an admissions packet resent it. Let's face it, economics and social bigotry do play a VERY VERY important role in a person's life.

Add 1+2+3 = Diversity in medschool is just as good for an enriching experience for the future doctor and beneficial for the community.
 
Originally posted by Street Philosopher
No sarcasm, I just wanted to push you to see what your principles really were and to see if they could be defended when applied to their logical conclusion. I think a lot of people have a potpurri approach to defending affirmative action, which sound nice and good but are each based on fundamentally flawed principles. The next trick is to pick and choose applications of these principles, conveniently ignoring less favorable consequences. Just playing devil's advocate here.
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That's fine. No feelings hurt. Just wanted to tell you that you write extremely well. I have never exchanged words with you before, but this must be a talent of yours. I wish I could express my thoughts so complete and precise. (I am being totally sincere).
 
You're right. It's more of a Separate But Superior argument rather than a Separate But Equal pitch. Hey, if we all "benefit" then it must be wonderful, eh?..... even if we have unequal treatment under the law.


Poor Justice Harlan.
 
Originally posted by Giving My .02

[/B]I am glad we could agree also. Honestly, thinking back on our conversation, I think if there were more people like you from all backgrounds, physicians would be 10X better than they are. We need determined individuals willing to push differences aside & serve people because that is what they do best. Good luck to you![/B]
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Good luck to you too.

As for affirmative action, I'll stick by what i said before chosing the economic solution:

Admissions is a different game. Students should be judged as 'qualified applicants' if they succeed within the circumstances surrounding their academic history and peer groups they have had most contact with. While this is not true 'affirmitive action', there usually is a direct correlation between factors such as economic inequality that and ethnicity and race.

Not saying this is perfect though... the student A of race X from a rich family with a legacy at school D will still get into school D, but i hope he/she gets beat miserably by student B of race Y who did it all himself/herself :D
 
There has been little talk about THE legimate reason why the numbers are what they are...

How come no one talks about why the state of washington does not accept students from Oregon...or Ohio...or Maryland? They accept their own residents because they are more likely to stay in the state as doctors. If the state of some midwestern state took a large percentage of students from CA or NY it is without a doubt that they are more likley to back to their original states than stay in that midwestern state.

Okay along the same line....people are also more likely to be more comfortable with doctors of their own race as perhaps they can understand the culture, language, etc... I think this is a legitimate concern and reason. I would say that if you look at the population of a state, you would see a similiar numbers (percentage-wise) in a typical medical school class. Okay, I admit this may not be so applicable to private school as they have no need to look at this situation...but I bet they are well aware of the situation.

By the way, I am asian and I believe it is okay that I have to be competitive with other asians.

Just a hypothetical...(HYPOTHETICAL)
If acceptance was entirely based on academic/EC/LOR merit...whatever...and 99% of graduating doctors were asian, would this be the best situation for the patients? I say No. As people who are supposed to be concerned about the welfare of their patients...it's time to stop thinking about us all the time.

Anyone that says YES then think about this....is it possible that an asian patients could be uncomfortable with a caucasian or black or indian doctor? Everyone knows that a lot of people are comfortable with their own ethnic group...that's why every campus in the US has a Korean society, a Japanase Society, Chinese Society, etc...

Just my 2 cents.
 
Originally posted by TTSD
We might bleed the same, laugh the same, die the same, our body doesn't necessarily work exactly the same.

There ARE some distinct traits across ethnicities that are oftentimes not caught by doctors outside of that race (i.e. the differential diagnosis of glacouma (sp?) in Asians).

And as an above poster mentioned, cultural knowledge and sensitivity are very important especially amongst prideful or hurt people.
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Also, black people have an extra muscle in their legs. This is why they run faster, jump higher, can't swim, and love fried chicken.

You guys all talk as if your opinion on this issue actually matters.
 
Your talking out of your butt pooh chang. see link below. Asains # are only slightly whigher that whites, and only on the mcat, not gpa.

"If acceptance was entirely based on academic/EC/LOR merit...whatever...and 99% of graduating doctors were asian, would this be the best situation for the patients?"

Asians couldnt even fill 1/4 of the med schools in the country if you accepted all of them, there anrt enough applying.


And to those that think AA merely slighly lowers the academic intergity of a school why not look at the facts and then conform your opinods to them, than the other way around.



http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg6b2002a.htm

24.4 as 3.35 GPA ....the averge ACCEPTED black student.

30.9 MCAT Asian 3.63 GPA

30.2 white 3.65 GPA

so you can see, the hype about asians having it so though is bull, a lower gpa and a measly .7 MCAT, a small price to pay for being 2% of the population and being 1/6th of the total med school enrolment. its about 3K asians in 16.5K entrants by the way, not 25%.
 
Simply put, Pooh Chong: If you try hard enough, you can be a resident of any state you choose. However, no matter how hard you try, you can not choose your race. State residency is an open group discriminator. Race is a closed group discriminator.

That is one of the reasons why we passed laws against racial discrimination but not state discrimination in programs receiving federal assistance, like state colleges.

??2000d - No person in the United States shall, on the ground of race, color, or national origin, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.?
 
I stand firm on my opinion that the race question should be banned from all applications anywhere. It should have absolutely no influence (positive or negative) on a decision. Affirmative Action is a sorry ass attempt to correct the unequal opportunites that exist in America. We are not going to solve the problem of the crappy education in urban areas by admitting people to educational programs based on race. Maybe we can think of a better use for $87 billion.
 
Nobody seems to be mentioning the fact that Asians made up about 18% of the applicant pool and roughly the same percentage of matriculants last year. From these numbers it's obvious that Asians are admitted at a rate roughly equal to the general applicant pool. In reply to those posters who suggest Asians are somehow "getting it easy" by having such a large med school representation compared to general population numbers, I say it's due solely to desire to become a physician.
 
Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki


??2000d - No person in the United States shall, on the ground of race, color, or national origin, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.?
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Actually, Ryo, as of June of this year, your quote is no longer valid. On June 23, the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the right of universities to consider race in admissions procedures in order to achieve a diverse student body. So medical schools CAN factor race into admissions and nothing can be done against them. Nothing. I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the issue as of now, but I see benifits and pitfalls on both sides.
 
Originally posted by kingcer0x
Good luck to you too.

As for affirmative action, I'll stick by what i said before chosing the economic solution:

Admissions is a different game. Students should be judged as 'qualified applicants' if they succeed within the circumstances surrounding their academic history and peer groups they have had most contact with. While this is not true 'affirmitive action', there usually is a direct correlation between factors such as economic inequality that and ethnicity and race.

Not saying this is perfect though... the student A of race X from a rich family with a legacy at school D will still get into school D, but i hope he/she gets beat miserably by student B of race Y who did it all himself/herself :D
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While this is not true 'affirmitive action', there usually is a direct correlation between factors such as economic inequality that and ethnicity and race.
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What correlation are u talking about?
 
Asians make up 2% of the U.S. population; however, they make up about 25% of the medical class on average. Therefore, the competition between asian applicants to get into these limited slots are extremely high.
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The fact that Asians make up 2% of the population but 25% of med students does not mean that Asian applicants face a steeper climb than others; in fact, they are over-represented on a numbers basis compared to other races. I am not saying that this overrepresentation is a problem; I don't think it is. But it certainly doesn't make sense to say that since Asians are overrepresented in med school relative to the population, therefore that means they face discrimination in the application process. If the percentage of Asian accepted applicants is similar to the percentage of Asian applicants overall, then that shows that Asians aren't discriminated against and don't face a tougher road than anyone else (assuming that their qualifications are similar on average...which they are. Look at the MCAT and GPA data posted by Hightrump... average MCAT and GPA are similar for Asians and caucasians). I'm just tired of people blaming other people for their not getting into med school...whether it's whites blaming URMs or Asians claiming it's harder for them than for anyone else. Just because you didn't get into the med school that you wanted, isn't a good reason to blame someone else for taking your spot or to blame it on your race, particularly when the data don't support it. Maybe you deserved the spot, maybe you didn't, either way you just have to accept that sometimes life isn't fair and it doesn't mean that the world is systematically biased against people of your race, class, the school you went to, or whatever. It's whining and it's not productive. You just have to focus on improving what you can and try again. Sorry for the length of my rant.
 
Originally posted by jennie 21
The fact that Asians make up 2% of the population but 25% of med students does not mean that Asian applicants face a steeper climb than others; in fact, they are over-represented on a numbers basis compared to other races. I am not saying that this overrepresentation is a problem; I don't think it is. But it certainly doesn't make sense to say that since Asians are overrepresented in med school relative to the population, therefore that means they face discrimination in the application process. If the percentage of Asian accepted applicants is similar to the percentage of Asian applicants overall, then that shows that Asians aren't discriminated against and don't face a tougher road than anyone else (assuming that their qualifications are similar on average...which they are. Look at the MCAT and GPA data posted by Hightrump... average MCAT and GPA are similar for Asians and caucasians). I'm just tired of people blaming other people for their not getting into med school...whether it's whites blaming URMs or Asians claiming it's harder for them than for anyone else. Just because you didn't get into the med school that you wanted, isn't a good reason to blame someone else for taking your spot or to blame it on your race, particularly when the data don't support it. Maybe you deserved the spot, maybe you didn't, either way you just have to accept that sometimes life isn't fair and it doesn't mean that the world is systematically biased against people of your race, class, the school you went to, or whatever. It's whining and it's not productive. You just have to focus on improving what you can and try again. Sorry for the length of my rant.
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I totally agree with you and could not have said it better myself.
 
if race wasn't a factor, how do you explain that the average mcat score and gpa for african american students that get in are 25 and 3.35.
 
Originally posted by Giving My .02
I totally agree with you and could not have said it better myself.
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same here. i don't even understand the point of this statistic for you, the applicant. This is perhaps useful for undergraduate programs or medical admissions in focusing or changing their programs/curriculums/advising, but for the applicant-- yeah you can use it as an excuse, complaint, whatever.. but how?

how do you know who is 'taking your spot'? (there's lots to say in that feeling of entitlement in the first place) because why do you think adcoms interview people anyway? Why do you think that after reviewing all of the numbers, essays, etc.. they take the time to sit down with the applicant and feel out their essence and personality?
It's all such a personal process (interviewers... committee members..) that I don't see how the stats "the average mcat score and gpa for african american students that get in are 25 and 3.35" can mean anything to you because besides what basic statistics can tell you (there are undoubtedly those with high scores/gpas as well as low scores to make this average), you don't have any idea WHO these people are. You wouldn't be able to know the stats (unless you asked yourself), the story of the person/people who you feel is/are 'taking your spot(s).'

that's my two cents. i'm so over this, hopefully chankovsky can get over it as well. if not, i'd suggest asking adcom members what they really think. it's enlightening when you have a broad view of their goals, whatever they may be.

stay stress-free
 
look i don't care one way or the other, but honestly, every racial group has a range of experiences. dont' tell me every kid wiht a 25mcat and 3.3 who is black is going to be a great doctor because he wants to give back to the community wheras some ivy league rich kid is doing it for money. If anything, the poor kids are more likely to care about money because they want to improve their lives, wheras richer kids know they can do without alot of the things they have.

don't generalize and say kids that are black or have lower mcats or have higher gpas will be better doctors. If i see a lower gpa and lower mcat, it means lower ability to study the way we study in medical school, plain and simple. You can argue the educational system and ask for better preparation, but the bottom line is that these things show how people perform as medical students. You can still be a great doctor, but everyone needs to get the basics, so a standard must be set.

Its just sad for others when their standard is higher because of where they're from. Last time i checked, my immigrant parents did not have any help making it in the US, but that is not an appropriate way to rationalize my failures.

You know, people compare gpas, but i am certain that asians are overreprented at top schools and far underrepresented at crappy ones. I am sure that average gpa has a big portion of white kids from midwest CC's and state schools whereas our numbers come from major universities.

consider everything when you make your rampant generalizations.
 
theres a lot of blaming for "taking one's spot" b/c asians are over represented. Asians or anyone for that matter should not be looked negatively at for wanting to do well.

Looking at it the other way...maybe the reason why asian are over represented is because for some reason...they are smart and in general don't we want smart physicians?
 
Anybody has a breakdown of MD in a community on the basis of their ethniicity? Is it true that there is still a lot of (first generation)oriental doctors practicing in all of URM's areas right now?

Also, anybody know how many of those URM MD go back to serve their community?
 
Also, anybody know how many of those URM MD go back to serve their community?
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Thats a good point, I wonder if there is any research on that.
 
Originally posted by judoka
look i don't care one way or the other, but honestly, every racial group has a range of experiences. dont' tell me every kid wiht a 25mcat and 3.3 who is black is going to be a great doctor because he wants to give back to the community wheras some ivy league rich kid is doing it for money. If anything, the poor kids are more likely to care about money because they want to improve their lives, wheras richer kids know they can do without alot of the things they have.

don't generalize and say kids that are black or have lower mcats or have higher gpas will be better doctors. If i see a lower gpa and lower mcat, it means lower ability to study the way we study in medical school, plain and simple. You can argue the educational system and ask for better preparation, but the bottom line is that these things show how people perform as medical students. You can still be a great doctor, but everyone needs to get the basics, so a standard must be set.

Its just sad for others when their standard is higher because of where they're from. Last time i checked, my immigrant parents did not have any help making it in the US, but that is not an appropriate way to rationalize my failures.

You know, people compare gpas, but i am certain that asians are overreprented at top schools and far underrepresented at crappy ones. I am sure that average gpa has a big portion of white kids from midwest CC's and state schools whereas our numbers come from major universities.

consider everything when you make your rampant generalizations.
Click to expand...

I think you summed it up quite nicely. Good job. :clap:
 
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