Any Asians with 3.8 uGPA with success stories into MD program?

[deleted1100204]

TIA!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Usually you will need a postbac or SMP, as there are many who go that route and eventually get into medical school. No shortcuts.

 

[Goro]

Wondering if any of my fellow Asians or anyone who knows someone has a story of getting into an allopathic med school with a low GPA. TIA!

No medical school is doing you any favors by admitting you when you are at risk for failing out, unless as pointed out by my wise colleague that you have successfully gone through a DYI post-bac or SMP

 

[Goro]

And t his has nothing to do with one's ethnicity either

 

[candbgirl]

What do you mean by ~3.0? Do you have a MCAT score? Based on your ~3.0 you aren’t even competitive for DO much less MD. You have to do what everyone else who is successful in the process does. And that is build a competitive application that show you are a viable candidate for admission. You need to start with your grades and go from there. But even then there are no guarantees and you always should have a backup plan. Good luck as you move forward.

 

[EricMD2022]

Wondering if any of my fellow Asians or anyone who knows someone has a story of getting into an allopathic med school with a low GPA. TIA!

Every application to AMCAS or AACOMAS has its uniqueness, no one can replicate others' experiences. Even the answer is positive it does not mean you can be successful. What if someone answers yes, dose your follow-up question going to be "what is your school list?". Do an SMP or Postbacc just like others do, then ace your MCAT there is no easy way.

 

[deleted1100204]

And t his has nothing to do with one's ethnicity either

I know- I have a strong upward trend and am willing to do whatever it takes to get into an MD school. I’m just worried I’ll never be able to get there because of my poor decisions made freshman and sophomore year. Plus the average stats for people like me are extremely high.

 

[deleted1100204]

What do you mean by ~3.0? Do you have a MCAT score? Based on your ~3.0 you aren’t even competitive for DO much less MD. You have to do what everyone else who is successful in the process does. And that is build a competitive application that show you are a viable candidate for admission. You need to start with your grades and go from there. But even then there are no guarantees and you always should have a backup plan. Good luck as you move forward.

What kind of backup plan?

 

[deleted1100204]

Every application to AMCAS or AACOMAS has its uniqueness, no one can replicate others' experiences. Even the answer is positive it does not mean you can be successful. What if someone answers yes, dose your follow-up question going to be "what is your school list?". Do an SMP or Postbacc just like others do, then ace your MCAT there is no easy way.

Nope. My follow up question was going to be what did you do to get there, what habits did you change, and how do you maintain an optimistic mindset

 

[Goro]

I know- I have a strong upward trend and am willing to do whatever it takes to get into an MD school. I’m just worried I’ll never be able to get there because of my poor decisions made freshman and sophomore year. Plus the average stats for people like me are extremely high.

What were your year by year GPAs? MCAT score?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

What kind of backup plan?

Just a guess l, but likely referring to alternative career paths that you would be happy doing long term if med school doesn’t work out. For example, I didn’t expect to get in this cycle so I got a job that is not in medicine (though intertwined with healthcare) that I could see myself doing in case

 

[candbgirl]

What kind of backup plan?

What you will do if you aren’t accepted to med school.

 

[deleted1100204]

What were your year by year GPAs? MCAT score?

2018 fall- 1.987
2019 spring- 1.994
2019 summer- 3.388
2019 fall- 1.425
2020 spring- 3.5
2020 summer- 2.9
2020 fall- 3.581
2021 spring- 3.650
2021 summer- 3.0
2021 fall- 3.8
Haven’t taken the official MCAT yet, but last practice test (Jan 2022) was 512. I signed up for the April 29 test date.

Edit: I am planning on doing an SMP this fall or next. I feel like it’s too late to apply now and I’d rather focus on finishing the school year strong and my research project than risk my GPA tanking because I was preparing my apps.

 

[deleted1100204]

What you will do if you aren’t accepted to med school.

Even if I try many cycles?

 

[ethereal_fae]

Even if I try many cycles?

You might apply for several cycles and may never get in. It's important to have a realistic backup plan just in case.

 

[deleted1100204]

You might apply for several cycles and may never get in. It's important to have a realistic backup plan just in case.

I see. I wish I slapped some sense into my 18-year-old self.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Even if I try many cycles?

If you plan to try many cycles, it’s even more important to have a backup plan. You don’t want to wake up one day and find that you’re 25 or 26 without any work experience that can transfer in case you don’t get in.

The trend looks pretty good, so it’s definitely possible you could get in. Really try to get 516+

 

[deleted1100204]

If you plan to try many cycles, it’s even more important to have a backup plan. You don’t want to wake up one day and find that you’re 25 or 26 without any work experience that can transfer in case you don’t get in.

The trend looks pretty good, so it’s definitely possible you could get in. Really try to get 516+

Thank you, would something like an internship/full-time healthcare consulting job work? What about MPH/MHA?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Thank you, would something like an internship/full-time healthcare consulting job work? What about MPH/MHA?

Healthcare consulting is the better of these two imo followed by MHA but I think the goal should be to gain some real work experience plus avoid taking on large sums of debt so that you have the option to borrow for med school. Just be sure to keep up on volunteering and medical extracurriculars while working.

 

[Doctoscope]

Do a year or two (30 - 60 units) of UNDERGRADUATE post-bacc work, taking upper division BCPM classes. Apply broadly to MD and DO schools. Depending on your MCAT, and if you do well on your PB (3.7+) you will have a reasonable shot, especially at DO schools. MD will be a dice roll.

 

[Goro]

2018 fall- 1.987
2019 spring- 1.994
2019 summer- 3.388
2019 fall- 1.425
2020 spring- 3.5
2020 summer- 2.9
2020 fall- 3.581
2021 spring- 3.650
2021 summer- 3.0
2021 fall- 3.8
Haven’t taken the official MCAT yet, but last practice test (Jan 2022) was 512. I signed up for the April 29 test date.

Edit: I am planning on doing an SMP this fall or next. I feel like it’s too late to apply now and I’d rather focus on finishing the school year strong and my research project than risk my GPA tanking because I was preparing my apps.

*sigh*, I asked for year by year GPAs, not semester by semester.

That's cGPA and sGPA. Also, without an MCAT score, it's a waste of time to think about success stories, because that's for other people. You're not there yet.

But reality time. You've done a lot of damage to your GPA. When it comes to application time, assuming competitive GPAs, you will need to have DO schools on your lists. Beggars can't be choosy.

In the mean time, read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[candbgirl]

Even if I try many cycles?

You are aware that not everyone who wants to be a doctor gets to be one, right? Each year around 40% of all applicants are accepted to any med school. And during pandemic that number has dropped to 35-36% are accepted. And half of that number only received one acceptance. This includes stellar applicants with hear perfect applications. So that’s why you need a backup plan. So do the best you can and see where you end up. But always have a good plan for just in case you are unaccepted. .

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Even if I try many cycles?

They don't pick applicants out of a hat. Luck plays a part but a student with a 3.9 GPA and 520 MCAT has a much better chance of getting in than a student with a 3.0 and a 495, even if the second student applies 5 times.

I took the liberty of graphing your GPA which I admit was extra but that list was giving me a headache - can't imagine what it's like to work in admissions. I don't think this GPA trend is sufficient to get eyes on your application without a post-bac. An upward trend should tell a story of a student who struggles freshman year, gets their bearings and aces their junior and senior years. Your GPA for your last 5 of 10 semesters was ~3.4, below average at DO school for Asians (3.5), Whites (3.55) and almost everyone else. From the AACOM website (page 11 of this PDF).

All of this may be moot though. Most schools, MD and DO, screen out GPA < 3.2. Won't even send you a secondary. Sorry, it seems this isn't what you wanted to hear but better to hear it now than after a failed application cycle.

 

[KnightDoc]

All of this may be moot though. Most schools, MD and DO, screen out GPA < 3.2. Won't even send you a secondary. Sorry, it seems this isn't what you wanted to hear but better to hear it now than after a failed application cycle.

Actually, the advice you are giving is far more valuable than you realize. I don't know about DO, but most MD schools will not screen out at all pre-secondary. They will take OP's money and THEN reject based on the GPA!

 

[candbgirl]

Actually, the advice you are giving is far more valuable than you realize. I don't know about DO, but most MD schools will not screen out at all pre-secondary. They will take OP's money and THEN reject based on the GPA!

So true. And then we have people like OP that will tell us “well I got a secondary immediately.” And that’s true and another thing true is that the schools will deposit your money immediately and leave you hanging all cycle and then maybe reject you formally.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Actually, the advice you are giving is far more valuable than you realize. I don't know about DO, but most MD schools will not screen out at all pre-secondary. They will take OP's money and THEN reject based on the GPA!

Good to know, I didn’t apply MD but assumed incorrectly the screening process would be more strict, if anything.

 

[chzsux]

Thought I might as well throw my two cents in. I would say that as an ORM Asian, unless you score very well (>520), your application would be dead on arrival at 99.9% of all MD schools (although this won't stop them from taking your secondary money). Additionally, your GPA trend isn't doing a ton to help you - it is technically rising, but it's not like you finished your last 4 semesters with straight As. My recommendation would be to kill the MCAT, try to find unique "X-factor" clinical and service experiences to help you stand out, and consider doing a postbac year (could be a double major or minor if you're still in college) or even an SMP. Keep in mind though that the postbac/SMP really would be your last chance - if you get below a 3.8 during these, you'd be further showing medical schools that you're not academically ready for medical school. Otherwise, consider DO. Also, word to the wise - DO NOT APPLY UNTILL YOU ARE 100% PREPARED - reapplying is its own kind of torture and you don't want to spend that money and time twice if you don't have to.

 

[deleted1100204]

Thought I might as well throw my two cents in. I would say that as an ORM Asian, unless you score very well (>520), your application would be dead on arrival at 99.9% of all MD schools (although this won't stop them from taking your secondary money). Additionally, your GPA trend isn't doing a ton to help you - it is technically rising, but it's not like you finished your last 4 semesters with straight As. My recommendation would be to kill the MCAT, try to find unique "X-factor" clinical and service experiences to help you stand out, and consider doing a postbac year (could be a double major or minor if you're still in college) or even an SMP. Keep in mind though that the postbac/SMP really would be your last chance - if you get below a 3.8 during these, you'd be further showing medical schools that you're not academically ready for medical school. Otherwise, consider DO. Also, word to the wise - DO NOT APPLY UNTILL YOU ARE 100% PREPARED - reapplying is its own kind of torture and you don't want to spend that money and time twice if you don't have to.

My poor grades are from me trying to finish my major and overloading + premed classes. Do you think I should’ve taken the non-major classes at a different institution? My brother is also planning on going MD so I’d like to give him advice and not make the same mistakes I made.

 

[chzsux]

My poor grades are from me trying to finish my major and overloading + premed classes. Do you think I should’ve taken the non-major classes at a different institution? My brother is also planning on going MD so I’d like to give him advice and not make the same mistakes I made.

I mean, it honestly depends on the classes/subjects. If the classes include common pre-med prerequisites, most adcoms would advise against taking those classes at other institutions or online (this may have changed due to COVID-19). As far as picking a major/classes is concerned, I think that you should tell your brother to honestly pick what he thinks he'll be most interested in while also having solid chances of success because ultimately, an easier major with a lack of passion may lead to a lower GPA than a tougher major that he's interested the most in. Otherwise, the best advice that I can give him is to always focus on grades - you can develop ECs/experiences during gap years and breaks and you can even retake the MCAT, but GPA is very difficult to change

 

[deleted1100204]

I mean, it honestly depends on the classes/subjects. If the classes include common pre-med prerequisites, most adcoms would advise against taking those classes at other institutions or online (this may have changed due to COVID-19). As far as picking a major/classes is concerned, I think that you should tell your brother to honestly pick what he thinks he'll be most interested in while also having solid chances of success because ultimately, an easier major with a lack of passion may lead to a lower GPA than a tougher major that he's interested the most in. Otherwise, the best advice that I can give him is to always focus on grades - you can develop ECs/experiences during gap years and breaks and you can even retake the MCAT, but GPA is very difficult to change

What about a second undergraduate degree with only high level science classes where I work my ass off to get amazing grades? Does this help “mitigate” the 3.0? When calculating my uGPA, does this include both undergraduate degrees or will they be recorded separately?

 

[chzsux]

A heavy positive trend will help to a certain extent while also helping bring your GPA average up, both of which are good things for you. However, keep in mind that even for SMPs, most master's/graduate GPAs are considered separately from undergraduate GPA.

 

[Kardio]

From my experience and IMO, the best path for folks like you is:
1-2 high productivity years (research w/ publications, clinical experience, shadowing, etc) + rockstar MCAT (517-520 ballpark) + rockstar 1yr SMP + coherent and compelling personal narrative + applying after all of the aforementioned have been completed fully.

I’d also be willing to include DO apps in first or second cycle, especially if you fall short in any of the domains I’ve listed - unless you’re OK with wasting 2-3 years of your life without gaining any traction in a useful direction.

 

[Goro]

My poor grades are from me trying to finish my major and overloading + premed classes. Do you think I should’ve taken the non-major classes at a different institution? My brother is also planning on going MD so I’d like to give him advice and not make the same mistakes I made.

Honestly, Babye, your best grades are in a single semester of a 3.8. That's too few data points to suggest anything positive, other than you have a rising GPA trend and will likely do well in a post-bac or SMP.

I also suggest that you do limit your advice to your brother to getting him an account on SDN and tell him to ignore the angst.

I’d also be willing to include DO apps in first or second cycle, especially if you fall short in any of the domains I’ve listed - unless you’re OK with wasting 2-3 years of your life without gaining any traction in a useful direction.

Willing to include? There is no willing. OP NEEDS DO schools on the list.

 

[candbgirl]

What about a second undergraduate degree with only high level science classes where I work my ass off to get amazing grades? Does this help “mitigate” the 3.0? When calculating my uGPA, does this include both undergraduate degrees or will they be recorded separately?

Another undergrad degree will be combined with your current undergrad GPA. What is your sGPA.? You seem to be very unknowledgeable in the whole med school admissions process. Have you formed a relationship with the PreMed Advisors at your school? Have you started your ECs yet? What have you done in the EC areas? I think you Need to rethink taking the MCAT in April. MCAT scores expire and yours will probably expire before you are ready to apply. You really aren’t close to having a competitive application and we know nothing about your activities. So slow down. Work on your grades. If you can’t repair your grades there will be no reason to take the MCAT.

 

[deleted1100204]

*sigh*, I asked for year by year GPAs, not semester by semester.

That's cGPA and sGPA. Also, without an MCAT score, it's a waste of time to think about success stories, because that's for other people. You're not there yet.

But reality time. You've done a lot of damage to your GPA. When it comes to application time, assuming competitive GPAs, you will need to have DO schools on your lists. Beggars can't be choosy.

In the mean time, read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

What about a second undergraduate degree…?

Honestly, Babye, your best grades are in a single semester of a 3.8. That's too few data points to suggest anything positive, other than you have a rising GPA trend and will likely do well in a post-bac or SMP.

I also suggest that you do limit your advice to your brother to getting him an account on SDN and tell him to ignore the angst.

I’d also be willing to include DO apps in first or second cycle, especially if you fall short in any of the domains I’ve listed - unless you’re OK with wasting 2-3 years of your life without gaining any traction in a useful direction.

Willing to include? There is no willing. OP NEEDS DO schools on the list.

Obviously I will be having mostly DO schools. I just wanted to know if I had a shot at redemption, which is what your previous post gave a guide to. I have read your post many times before, but I just wanted to know since I am competing against other Asians with GPAs far better than mine. Yes, I know you hate hypotheticals, but sometimes a girl just needs some hope to keep plugging on. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to reply to my post and give advice, you have no idea how honored I am.

 

[KnightDoc]

Good to know, I didn’t apply MD but assumed incorrectly the screening process would be more strict, if anything.

Nope. It's all about the Benjamins for most of them.

They all talk about holistic reviews, and use that as an excuse to not screen for secondaries, but it's really about gathering as many applications as they can, both to maximize revenue and to make themselves appear to be very selective.

A few schools like UCSF and Vandy do perform pretty extensive screens before sending secondaries, and people complain about that too. In general, though, the screening doesn't occur until after they have our money.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Nope. It's all about the Benjamins for most of them.

They all talk about holistic reviews, and use that as an excuse to not screen for secondaries, but it's really about gathering as many applications as they can, both to maximize revenue and to make themselves appear to be very selective.

A few schools like UCSF and Vandy do perform pretty extensive screens before sending secondaries, and people complain about that too. In general, though, the screening doesn't occur until after they have our money.

As an aside, some of my DO apps cost $250 a piece if memory serves. Suppose profiting from desperate, unqualified applicants transcends the MD/DO boundary.

 

[KnightDoc]

As an aside, some of my DO apps cost $250 a piece if memory serves. Suppose profiting from desperate, unqualified applicants transcends the MD/DO boundary.

Yup. Slightly different business model, but they get to the same place. MD secondaries average around $100, and they don't make you pay $1,000-2,000 non-refundable deposits to hold a seat months before you actually have to commit, but, OTOH, most schools don't do an honest pre-screen before having people apply.

 

[Goro]

What about a second undergraduate degree…?

Obviously I will be having mostly DO schools. I just wanted to know if I had a shot at redemption, which is what your previous post gave a guide to. I have read your post many times before, but I just wanted to know since I am competing against other Asians with GPAs far better than mine. Yes, I know you hate hypotheticals, but sometimes a girl just needs some hope to keep plugging on. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to reply to my post and give advice, you have no idea how honored I am.

No need for a 2nd degree.

 

[Doctoscope]

As an aside, some of my DO apps cost $250 a piece if memory serves. Suppose profiting from desperate, unqualified applicants transcends the MD/DO boundary.

Don't forget the non-refundable $2000 deposit that's due in 2 weeks after you get your acceptance.

 

[MateoGM416]

I’d also be willing to include DO apps in first or second cycle, especially if you fall short in any of the domains I’ve listed - unless you’re OK with wasting 2-3 years of your life without gaining any traction in a useful direction.

That's a pretty pessimistic view on gap years...the year I have been taking between undergrad and M1 has been one of the best years of my life.. there's way more to life than becoming a physician even if it is your passion.

I just wanted to say that and also that OP has taken a lot of this difficult advice very maturely and respectfully! Good luck OP!

 

[Kardio]

That's a pretty pessimistic view on gap years...the year I have been taking between undergrad and M1 has been one of the best years of my life.. there's way more to life than becoming a physician even if it is your passion.

I don’t think my view is pessimistic or has to be unpleasant, but the road to redemption will be challenging. Having a history similar to OP’s, I’m simply relaying the experience of people I’ve seen succeed.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

So true. And then we have people like OP that will tell us “well I got a secondary immediately.” And that’s true and another thing true is that the schools will deposit your money immediately and leave you hanging all cycle and then maybe reject you formally.

Or informally reject you by being on perpetual wait list.

 

[candbgirl]

Or informally reject you by being on perpetual wait list.

Yes you are right. And I think that’s really wrong to leave applicants hanging when the cycle is over.

 

[deleted1100204]

That's a pretty pessimistic view on gap years...the year I have been taking between undergrad and M1 has been one of the best years of my life.. there's way more to life than becoming a physician even if it is your passion.

I just wanted to say that and also that OP has taken a lot of this difficult advice very maturely and respectfully! Good luck OP!

Thank you!

 

[MDMechEngr]

Wondering if any of my fellow Asians or anyone who knows someone has a story of getting into an allopathic med school with a low GPA. TIA!

That 3.0 looks more like a 2.75 if you are an asian.