the next dr.rey

[Amgen1]

look at the "our doc" section. this guy is a 2nd yr resident and an example of why people think docs are scum bags. he is 4-5yrs away from being board certified but already has his website up an running. looks like the 2nd coming of dr.rey

http://www.synergycosmetic.com/

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Skylizard]

I encourage everyone to succeed. Your life and financial opportunities do not have to be put 100% on hold until your board certified in something. the website clearly states he is currently in training.

just my opinion

 

[Amgen1]

I would venture to say that the creams and lotions that he is peddling have slim to nothing to do with his "basic science and research expertise"

and you are correct he is not misrepresenting himself.

I think my problem comes from the fact that when people like this use their "title" (even if it is just plastic surgery resident) to sell products etc that likely have little scientific support, it makes the rest of the people with that title look a little bit worse. I basically see them as snake oil salesmen. I also don't approve of the docs on the tv at 3 am selling "houdia" (or whatever the latest weight loss drug is)

proffesionalism is one aspect of being an MD. i believe this type of behavior takes away from the respect that most of try to build upon. It makes the rest of us that much less credible when we have a guy like this standing next to us.

 

[Winged Scapula]

He looks a little scrawny to me...better hit the bicep curls in front of the scrub sink!

 

[Skylizard]

...you are correct he is not misrepresenting himself...

The concept of synergy was developed by our physician shortly after begining his medical education....Dr. Kerr-Valentic is currently completing his combined plastic surgery residency near where our headquarters are located in Utah...
1997-1999 ...Bachelor of Science in Biology...
1999-2000 Research Fellow in Molecular Biology...
2000-2004 ...Doctor of Medicine...
2004-2005 Surgery Internship...
2005-present. Combined Plastic & Reconstructive Surgery Resident...

I see a quality put together website (difficult to achieve for many training programs). I can't speak to the quality of their skin products

 

[Winged Scapula]

From my experience, it is quite common for plastic surgeons and dermatologists in private practice to sell cosmeceuticals. As I understand from a local surgeon I work with here, it is quite lucrative and the patients ask for the supplies used during cosmetic treatments, so why not sell them to them?

While I would personally draw the line at advertising on late night tv, some of most successful dermatologists in NYC do (I've seen their ads) as well as in upscale salons like Bliss. If they want to claim that their products have some scientific basis and superiority, its fine with me - buyer beware. I'm not too fussed about it...although for some reason I am more disgusted with the guys selling the diet products than I am the skin care lines.

 

[eastcoastyall]

This guy is a genius. Don't hate the player.

 

[surgdo]

I rotated at his institution for E.R. and as a surgery applicant I cornered him in the E.R. one night and asked for the skinny on the general surgery program. He seemed like a nice guy and very down to earth. I was suprised to see his face on the above website because he did not seem like the type of guy that would have a skin care line already.

 

[eastcoastyall]

he did not seem like the type of guy that would have a skin care line already.

Why all the hating on this guy? I admire his enterprising spirit. I think that you all are just jealous.

 

[BadVB750]

I think that you all are just jealous.

BINGO

 

[Winged Scapula]

It may be jealousy for some, but others of us remember the day when doctors were not allowed to advertise, nothing more than a single line listing in the phone book.

To some, any such endeavors smacks of unprofessionalism and quackery. Admit it, there are a lot of physicians out there who do sell things that fairly readily embarass the profession.

 

[Amgen1]

any such endeavors smacks of unprofessionalism and quackery. Admit it, there are a lot of physicians out there who do sell things that fairly readily embarass the profession.

This is more the point I was trying to make. This reminds you of the "Dr.Nick" character from the simpsons . . .

 

[surgdo]

Why all the hating on this guy? I admire his enterprising spirit. I think that you all are just jealous.

You missed the part in your quote where I actually said after meeting him I thought he was a good guy. I agree with Dr. Cox, we are not all jealous. Well maybe I am, but just because he is probably making some bank during residency with his skin care. Anyway I think Dr. Cox makes a good point, sometimes when docs sell "extra" products they can instantly lose some credibility. It's just like that jacka%# on T.V selling the weight loss product as a resident. (I think it is hydroxycut)

 

[Winged Scapula]

You missed the part in your quote where I actually said after meeting him I thought he was a good guy. I agree with Dr. Cox, we are not all jealous. Well maybe I am, but just because he is probably making some bank during residency with his skin care. Anyway I think Dr. Cox makes a good point, sometimes when docs sell "extra" products they can instantly lose some credibility. It's just like that jacka%# on T.V selling the weight loss product as a resident. (I think it is hydroxycut)

You mean "Dr. John B. Marshall, DO"? http://www.hydroxycut.com/MEN/DOCTOR_BIOS/JON_MARSHALL/index.shtml

There's also this guy: http://www.hydroxycut.com/MEN/DOCTOR_BIOS/NICK_EVANS/index.shtml

Gotta love their medical advice: eat right (low fat, high protein and moderate carbs) and exercise. Yeah, it took medical school to figure that one out! (of course, take Hydroxycut to give you that extra edge).

 

[BadVB750]

Well, is doing a residency that will most likely lead to a practice of cosmetic procedures that much better then selling skin care products? Both, turn a profit via vanity.

 

[Skylizard]

Does a guy selling skin care products, admittedly a concept developed "shortly after " starting his medical training, represent anymore unprofessional behavior then what you see within... that isn't advertised??? Is it even unprofessional? I am not sure I can say it is.

just my opinion

 

[Amgen1]

as someone's doctor you are supposed to be their advocate/advisor. You are supposed to be there to help them. If they have a problem, you fix it for a fee. If they don't need a procedure, you tell them that and charge them nothing (past the cost of the office visit/consult).

when money becomes your primary concern, and you see the patient as someone to sell a product/service to (regardless of whether or not they need it) them a problem arises.

If you are trying to sell creams/gels/etc, you have a financial incentive for people to buy those products. There is a clear conflict of interest. Your patients are going to see you are nothing more than a salesman as opposed to their health advocate.

Same reason researchers must inform patients that they own stock etc in a trial they are enrolling a patient on

 

[Skylizard]

Well, his website clearly shows he has an interest.
Cosmetic surgeons will sell you an implant....

...this conversation will be circular and we each have our take and/or opinion on the matter, I wish you all the best in your business, sorry careers, oh, sorry again your callings in medicine...

I submit

 

[Amgen1]

Agreed this can go in circles . . . . . In reality, the guy is not killing anyone or sleeping with their wife or any number of other foolish things that occur . . .

My initial point was just that the guy was a clown . . . . just like the guy at the bar who has 50lbs of hair gel 20 gold chains and a has a camero is clown . . .

Who knows, he may be a good doc and a good guy . . . although from another resident in SLC I hear that he does have his name and website stencilled on the back winshield of his SUV . . . once again just going back to the clown point . . .

 

[Winged Scapula]

I hear a great deal about this word "professionalism". I will be honest and say I am not even sure if such a reality exists or if it's just a cliche? Honestly, I suggest everyone look within their institution and/or training program and/or ORs, look at the conduct of janitors to attendings, to administrators, and everyone in between...

What about the retalitory 2am calls from nurses?
How about nurses unwilling to call certain physicians because of fear of the interaction?
What about the self exposure by individuals/flirting/etc...?

You'll get no argument from me about the lack of professionalism in the "biz". Physicians are some of the most immature, unprofessional people I've ever had the pleasure of working with. Same goes for many allied health care workers.

But the issue is not (for me) about professionalism WITHIN the field, but rather outside. Most John Q. Citizens walking down the street would have no idea about some of the unprofessional things that happen in the name of "health care" and "medical research" but I can imagine that he would agree that there is something a bit tawdry and unbefitting the profession by advertising and selling things.

Does a guy selling skin care products, admittedly a concept developed "shortly after " starting his medical training, represent anymore unprofessional behavior then what you see within... that isn't advertised??? Is it even unprofessional? I am not sure I can say it is.

again, just my opinion,
LS

More unprofessional? Probably not. Just different, I think - in the eyes of many in the profession and the outside world.

again, just MY opinion!

 

[Dr JPH]

Is it unprofessional and innapropriate if you truly believe the product you are selling is a good product?

I dont think docs should be standing behind cigarettes or alcohol...although I could make a great commercial for Jack Daniels.

But if there is a product on the market that is deemed safe (does one such exist?) and the physician advertising and selling it truly believes it to be a product that is beneficial to the target audience, is that wrong?

I dont see a doc selling wrinkle cream any different than Kelsey Grammar narrating a Hyundai commercial. The product execs are trying to add credibility to their product by having someone who is respected market that product.

Is it shady? Perhaps.

Is it unsavory? Could be.

Is it wrong? I dont think so.

 

[Skylizard]

we all have our own opinions. For me it is far more troublesome that a physician has been singled out, supposition and implications of lack of professionalism lodged on a public website... and we find ourselves discussing professionalism while referring to someone I doubt few of us know, as "a clown".

Again, an opinion and perspective.

 

[Dr JPH]

we all have our own opinions. I will be completely honest and say that for me it is far more troublesome that a physician has been singled out, supposition and implications of lack of professionalism lodged on a public website... and we find ourselves discussing professionalism while referring to someone I doubt few of us know, as "a clown".

Again, an opinion and perspective.

LS

 

[LuckyMD2b]

x

Frankly, I wish some company/ies would ask me to join up and get some extra cash to consult. I would NOT misrepresent myself. I would NOT sell a false belief or opinion.

LS

True, But if you did what this guy does you would be a *****.

His research is in Rib fractures, stress fractures, TRAM flaps, and animal behavior --- Nothing to do with the "Cosmeceuticals" he is peddling on that website.

Quote: "...felt it was possible to develop cosmeceutical skin care products that were stronger and more effective than what was available at department stores... Our laboratories use concentrated anti-aging and antioxidant preparations that might typically require a prescription."

if this guy's a scientist why doesn't he reference the literature showing that his products have any "anti-aging" properities? Because there is none! and his claims are not scientific. That's why he's selling COSMETICS which aren't required by the FDA to be proven efficacious.

FROM the FDA website:

"Cosmetic products and ingredients are not subject to FDA premarket approval authority, with the exception of color additives."

"The FD&C Act does not recognize any such category as "cosmeceuticals." A product can be a drug, a cosmetic, or a combination of both, but the term "cosmeceutical" has no meaning under the law." (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-218.html)

---------------------
If you don't know what professionalism is then your medical education has been seriously deficient -- and you may want to consult a dictionary to correct that. Medicine (including surgery) is a profession... selling lotions and snake oils on the net while misrepresnting yourself as a scientist is not.

 

[Skylizard]

we all have our own opinions. I will be completely honest and say that for me it is far more troublesome that a physician has been singled out, supposition and implications of lack of professionalism lodged on a public website... and we find ourselves discussing professionalism while referring to someone I doubt few of us know, as "a clown"...

I really think the general topic to be worthwhile and could have been a very good discussion. Unfortunately it did not go that way IMHO.

 

[Amgen1]

we all have our own opinions. I will be completely honest and say that for me it is far more troublesome that a physician has been singled out, supposition and implications of lack of professionalism lodged on a public website... and we find ourselves discussing professionalism while referring to someone I doubt few of us know, as "a clown".

i disagree with this argument.

this guy has a website that is open to the public space. we are not peaking in through his window and making comments on his personal life

just like if a doc had himself on a porno website he would be open to PUBLIC scrutiny because it is in the public space.

If you are going to put yourself out there as a public figure (which he is doing as a spokesman for his company) they you should be subject to public scrutiny

 

[LuckyMD2b]

Since you are having a lot of problem with what it professionalism is... let me explain what I think it is. take it or leave it.

Medicine is regarded as a profession, because we as a group are supposed to self-regulate the behavior of others within our group, for the benefit of those that employ our services -- hence the various medical colleges, boards, and societies that regulate training, and practice behaviors.

The practice of medicine is a privelege and not a right; we are allowed to do our jobs not because we have a civil right to do so, but because the state medical board has granted you that privilege.

Medicine is not like some generic form of business, because it requires specialized knowledge that is not available to the average person; furthermore when people seek out a doctor they may be in a state of extreme vulnerability; therefore doctors have a large amount of influence over patients... and as a profession we have set an ethical standard that all physicians should adhere to.

Self-regulation is a very important part of professional behavior. What you do should always be in the best interest of the patient... and the difficulty lies in the fact that the best interest of the patient may be contrary to our own desires for --- sleep, surgical experience, profit.

Therefore I personally do not think that medicine is just like another business, I think that physicians have to do A MUCH better job of not ---- WHORING themselves to the pharmaceutical, cosmeceutical, medical device, and insurance industries.

This guy's website is no different from something by Covergirl or Toyota. Cosmeceuticals are not the realm of the physician;

Should docs be allowed to sell creams and lotions, sure I don't care but once you start putting your name out there and using your medical training and research as an advertisement to cash in on products that DO NOT HAVE ANY proven medical benefit -- such as anti-aging. Then you are a *****!

 

[Dr JPH]

Should docs be allowed to sell creams and lotions, sure I don't care but once you start putting your name out there and using your medical training and research as an advertisement to cash in on products that DO NOT HAVE ANY proven medical benefit -- such as anti-aging. Then you are a *****!

How is Dr Jarvik doing Lipitor commercials any different?

Here is a physician who claims to take Lipitor (he may not) and stands behind that product. Is Lipitor a good drug? Absolutely. Even the FDA says so.

But I guarantee you that Lipitor has caused more health related problems than any of these cosmetic creams and lotions.

What about a physician who recommends a certain diet and exercise program...Atkins or South Beach.

One of the definitions of a ***** is an unscrupulous person...someone lacking moral principles.

Supporting a product, any product, doesnt make you a ***** unless that product is dangerous or detrimental to health.


As I said above, there is a big difference between someone who promotes a product that is obviously dangerous than someone who promotes a product that might not be beneficial. They dont make any outrageous claims. They dont say these products will cure cancer. They basically tell you..."look...rub this crap on your face and you will look younger."

I dont see anything wrong with that. Dozens, likely hundreds of companies have products that claim the same thing. Neutrogena to Johnson & Johnson.

This guy is no more of a ***** than Avon ladies or car salesman. They are selling a product, nothing more.

 

[Skylizard]

As we ponder professionalism an espouse a righteous and definitive black and white type perception of right and wrong, I found the varied definitions and the following web sight interesting:

American Heritage; Profession: An occupation, such as law, medicine, or engineering, that requires considerable training and specialized study.

Dictionary MSN Encarta; Professional: businesslike: conforming to the standards of skill, competence, or character normally expected of a properly qualified and experienced person in a work environment

http://www.imagerynet.com/hippo.ama.html

You have to love #6 at that website: "Only 43% vow to be accountable for their actions"

 

[Dr JPH]

I dont think you should use a non binding, outdated oath as professional guidelines...or even mention it in the same conversation as the above topic.

 

[Skylizard]

I do not know the answers.

PS: updated and acceptable oath of conduct????
"Only 43% vow to be accountable for their actions"

 

[Dr JPH]

I would disagree. The waters of what is acceptable in the modern world of medicine are continually changing and as muddy as the changing Oath of conduct or beliefs.

I see your point, but I dont think any Oath has adequately kept up with the changing ideals of the physicians who blindly recite the words.

 

[Skylizard]

...I dont think any Oath has adequately kept up with the changing ideals of the physicians who blindly recite the words...

I agree. I also find it interesting when someone is so clear as to proclaim:

...and as a profession we have set an ethical standard that all physicians should adhere to...

...Cosmeceuticals are not the realm of the physician...

I do not think it is all black and white. Do not confuse the opinion with some sort of righteous dictate/law/fact or easily defined criteria of what is or is not "professional" and then proceed to suggest that those that fail to see or agree with this firm stance are somehow lacking in enlightenment. Again, generally, just an opinion on my part.

 

[MossPoh]

While I think it is a bit cheezy, I don't really give a damn. Honestly, the design of the site doesn't lend itself to him even being the center of attention. Basic studies show that people hate scrolling down and really just have a thing in mind when searching anyway. Odds are most people will not scroll down that little extra bit to view the doctor (unless you have a bigger monitor, which puts it in view). Aside from that, I think physicians, or in my case wannabe physicians are really the main ones that view that. I had to kind of look for what you were talking about. Besides the oversized top banner, note how the products are the main thing that fit in the window. My assumption would be that they would be considered lucky if 5% actually clicked on that link, and out of that if 2% actually READ the information.

Side note.....I do find the 3 undergrad institutions interesting.

 

[Skylizard]

I am not going to claim to be the moral judge of someone that chooses to sell cosmetics... I think that argument is far too grey and likely the argument and associated claims can be considered more unprofessional then what is being judged.

just my opinion

 

[LuckyMD2b]

My problem is that he is lying.

He's selling a product that he claims does something, that there is no evidence that it is doing.

When the Avon lady does that I don't care, because she doesn't try to use her medical training to add some form of credibility to her claims. The website states that he used his skills acquired as a molecular biology fellow and in medical school to "get results" That's BS! He's selling him self, and not those products!

I don't have any problem with the lipitor guy, because I have seen evidence that atorvastatin actually lowers cholesterol -- I have no problem with cosmetic surgery because when the surgeon does a breast augmentation, those breasts actually get augmented.

When you say I'm a medical doctor and I support this rejuvenation cream with anti-aging properties, and I developed them, I think you are taking advantage of a naive public.

Unless someone can actually show me some evidence that this crap works... But of course you cannot because cosmetics don't have to be effective to be approved by the FDA, they just can't be dangerous. Therefore I can spit in a cup, and tell you this is a space age wrinkle balm; and say I'm an MD with research experience in abdominal pain so you should buy it.

 

[Dr JPH]

Perhaps the real issue at hand is the public IS so naive.

Are you really taking advantage of someone if all the information is presented on the website?

 

[MossPoh]

My problem is that he is lying.

He's selling a product that he claims does something, that there is no evidence that it is doing.

When the Avon lady does that I don't care, because she doesn't try to use her medical training to add some form of credibility to her claims. The website states that he used his skills acquired as a molecular biology fellow and in medical school to "get results" That's BS! He's selling him self, and not those products!

I don't have any problem with the lipitor guy, because I have seen evidence that atorvastatin actually lowers cholesterol -- I have no problem with cosmetic surgery because when the surgeon does a breast augmentation, those breasts actually get augmented.


When you say I'm a medical doctor and I support this rejuvenation cream with anti-aging properties, and I developed them, I think you are taking advantage of a naive public.

Unless someone can actually show me some evidence that this crap works... But of course you cannot because cosmetics don't have to be effective to be approved by the FDA, they just can't be dangerous. Therefore I can spit in a cup, and tell you this is a space age wrinkle balm; and say I'm an MD with research experience in abdominal pain so you should buy it.

Why do you think they make cremes for baby foreskins and stuff.

 

[Skylizard]

...Are you really taking advantage of someone if all the information is presented on the website?

I agree with that opinion/perspective too.

 

[Skylizard]

I strongly suggest people take a close look at their position and what they may be pulling out their backside as truth/fact/or moral outrage and failing to substantiate it...

Some of the claims/accusations/asertions could be considered defamatory... in print and in public??? Not sure about any thoughts in that... very interesting debate... well, maybe better describe as sad as opposed to interesting.

 

[eastcoastyall]

Agreed LS -- don't rip on this guy so much. That being said, I still think that he is smart, enterprising, and will do very well for himself. The M.D. is a degree that we can do whatever we want to with.

I certainly don't plan to have my only sources of income be my hospital salary. I aleady have a few business plans for post-residency. I may start some if I take some research time. This guy should be food for thought for everyone on this board as to where their income will come from, especially if a certain lady Democrat wins the election.

 

[jeffp]

Perhaps the issue with the efficacy of this guy's stuff is right in front of us by looking at the rest of medicine. Most things we do were developed using evidence-based medicine, thus proven to be both safe and efficacious. He has not provided evidence on either criterion. I bet it's safe and almost totally ineffective- just like the rest of the stuff on the shelves.

Some folks might say "there's no evidence his stuff is bad" but that wouldn't be good enough in another therapeutic area of medicine. He should know that given his research experience- which, I would add, is neither directly applicable to skin disease or particularly outstanding in any way. If he knows more than a med student about skin, it's because he has taken a particular interest in dermatology, chemical engineering and cosmetology on his own time, but we all know that is unlikely.

This guy has used his degree to gain credibility to boost sales, but he has no data to support his claims. The likely situation that he knows little more than a med student about skin isn't relevant, because he clearly hasn't put any real scientific methodology into this stuff.

And just because it's our M.D. doesn't mean we can do whatever we want with it. How about I start going around telling people with breast cancer to try my new crabgrass extract herbal treatment instead of going to their general surgeon? There's no direct evidence it is substandard...

 

[driedcaribou]

This guy is a genius. Don't hate the player.

Agreed.

FPs sell cosmetics too.... this guy is not misrepresenting himself at all.

Look at the babe he has working for him too.


http://home.comcast.net/~mahlonkerr/aesthetician.html

 

[Skylizard]

...Most things we do were developed using evidence-based medicine, thus proven to be both safe and efficacious...

While "research" has gone on for generations, I am not sure we can say your statement is accurate. I suspect the all encompassing catch phrase of "evidence based" is a fairly new and common quotation. However, "we" have been doing extensive things without any evidence other then "my attending showed me this once...". I hope the future is about mostly evidence based practice. However, it is not the case at this time for numerous reasons, not the least of which being numerous things can not ethically be "randomized controlled". Another matter is capabalilities....

Just for a rhetorical point, do you know good literature to show/base practice of 5 day/7 day/10 day antibiotics courses? I can say we are doing more research onthat matter. However, originally the course was fairly arbitrary and seemed like a good idea based on anectdotal experience. I suspect the champions of evidence based medicine and practice would cringe at the idea that anectdotal experience equates evidence base....

How about choice of wound dressings? dilute betadine packing, iodoform packing gauze? NS wet to dry? or as posed/asked by a fairly famous surgery program director , "would you use Holy water?".
How much irrigation do you use to irrigate a contaminated abdomen...until it's clear? I know of a paper out there that suggested 29 liters! When was the last time you saw someone do that volume of irrigation? What about antibiotic irrigation.... is that evidence based? Poured irrigation as opposed to pulsatile irrigation....?
How about laparoscopic verse open repair of bilateral inguinal hernias? I have generally seen that the trained laparoscopist does it MIS while the hernia guy that does not practice laparoscopy does it open.... are the patients really getting the best operation based on "evidence"? It is a very common procedure....

Thus, the opinions and claims in this thread have NOT been "evidence based" (consistent with our long medical tradition). I would suggest those that claim "most things we do were developed using evidence-based medicine, thus proven to be both safe and efficacious..." have not actually seen the evidence... because in many respects it is very scarce and we practice largely on a oral tradition of anectdotal experience. Step beyond believing what you were taught and actually look it up...

I hope the future is about mostly "evidence based practice". However, it is not the case at this time for numerous reasons...

LS

 

[Trisomy13]

stumbled across this thread and it reminded me of a family med resident at the hospital here. i can't take this guy seriously after seeing his website. i understand he's making his money and that's all good but honestly... i didn't go to med school to hawk snake oil.

http://www.drmartingallagher.com/main.html

 

[DrDre311]

Rey is a joke, homey. A brilliant businessman/marketer, to be sure, but not a real plastic surgeon. The guy's a joke in plastic surgery circles and he makes the rest of us look bad.

 

[TrojanDoctor]

How is Dr Jarvik doing Lipitor commercials any different?

Here is a physician who claims to take Lipitor (he may not) and stands behind that product. Is Lipitor a good drug? Absolutely. Even the FDA says so.

But I guarantee you that Lipitor has caused more health related problems than any of these cosmetic creams and lotions.

Not that it matters, but is Dr. Jarvik a physician? I think he is a PhD....

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not that it matters, but is Dr. Jarvik a physician? I think he is a PhD....

He has his MD from the University of Utah, 1976, a Masters in Bio-engineering (before medical school) and two honorary doctorates. He has never earned a PhD, done an internship or residency or held a medical license. Hence the reason for pulling the Lipitor commercials which constituted providing medical advice without a license.

 

[DrDre311]

He has his MD from the University of Utah, 1976, a Masters in Bio-engineering (before medical school) and two honorary doctorates. He has never earned a PhD, done an internship or residency or held a medical license. Hence the reason for pulling the Lipitor commercials which constituted providing medical advice without a license.

Well, maybe Jarvik and Rey can hang out and talk about how they blatantly mislead the public by pretending to be actual doctors while making tons of money.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Well, maybe Jarvik and Rey can hang out and talk about how they blatantly mislead the public by pretending to be actual doctors while making tons of money.

Jarvik apparently also pretends to be an athlete. Remember the commercial with him rowing? It was supposedly a body double.