Take Medicine Back

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makemoney2024

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If any of you guys are interested there is a small grassroots movement that’s been around for a couple of years made of physicians and some lawyers helping us who’s mission is to try and take Medicine back from PE and other corporate entitities. There is a FaceBook Group as well as a Website. It discusses the Corporation practice of Medicine and how it’s illegal in many states but of course ignored in the interest of money. I did a virtual conference w them two weekends ago and it was rejuvenating.
Started by a young guy by name of Dr Mitch Li. Lawyers involved in the California EM society lawsuit against Envision were there talking about the erosion of medicine.

Edited to add the link below.


There is also a FB group by the same name.
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makemoney2024 said:
If any of you guys are interested there is a small grassroots movement that’s been around for a couple of years made of physicians and some lawyers helping us who’s mission is to try and take Medicine back from PE and other corporate entitities. There is a FaceBook Group as well as a Website. It discusses the Corporation practice of Medicine and how it’s illegal in many states but of course ignored in the interest of money. I did a virtual conference w them two weekends ago and it was rejuvenating.
Started by a young guy by name of Dr Mitch Li. Lawyers involved in the California EM society lawsuit against Envision were there talking about the erosion of medicine.
Click to expand...

I met this Mitch Li guy through a mutual (now ex) friend…this guy came off as an absolute douchebag. I would avoid any “institution” this guy created on account of his personality alone.
 
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dozitgetchahi said:
I met this Mitch Li guy through a mutual (now ex) friend…this guy came off as an absolute douchebag. I would avoid any “institution” this guy created on account of his personality alone.
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Well, he does come on strong. However, I think the mission is bigger than the person. But you obviously are allowed your opinion and views.
 
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And bring back the days of predatory private practice groups instead?

It's an issue of non competes and ****ty insurance reimbursements. The corporate practice aspect is less relevant
 
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UscGhost said:
And bring back the days of predatory private practice groups instead?

It's an issue of non competes and ****ty insurance reimbursements. The corporate practice aspect is less relevant
Click to expand...

True. I remember when first coming out of residency interviewing with the clown president of a group that wanted to start me at 300k and after 10 years eventually get to 350k. No partnership track
 
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UscGhost said:
And bring back the days of predatory private practice groups instead?

It's an issue of non competes and ****ty insurance reimbursements. The corporate practice aspect is less relevant
Click to expand...
You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. It’s a free world.
 
dozitgetchahi said:
I met this Mitch Li guy through a mutual (now ex) friend…this guy came off as an absolute douchebag. I would avoid any “institution” this guy created on account of his personality alone.
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He responded on the Facebook group about this comment. Seems to have some self deprecating humor about the whole situation.
 
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makemoney2024 said:
Who’s forcing you? Why do you keep coming back? Move on!!! Are you OK? These predatory practices are run by a bunch of greedy men. Not me. So move on.
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Huh?

I am just pointing out that greedy predatory practices were far more prevalent before the emergence of PE into the anesthesia market (and likely contributed to it). So "taking medicine back" just so that a select few "owners" can take advantage of the new hires isn't that appealing.

If your practice was the only one 10 years ago that didn't have a partnership track, buy in, pay differential then that's great, but certainly not the norm.
 
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UscGhost said:
Huh?

I am just pointing out that greedy predatory practices were far more prevalent before the emergence of PE into the anesthesia market (and likely contributed to it). So "taking medicine back" just so that a select few "owners" can take advantage of the new hires isn't that appealing.

If your practice was the only one 10 years ago that didn't have a partnership track, buy in, pay differential then that's great, but certainly not the norm.
Click to expand...
My suggestion to you here is “if it doesn’t apply let it fly”. You pointed it out once. I read it. I get it. You see how lots of people are ignoring this thread? Try that. You have made your point. I know all about predatory groups. They are the ones who got us in this mess because all they cared about was money.
But I also know about fair groups and people who want to have autonomy again or never had it to begin with. Some of us non predators want PE out.
If you don’t that is ok. Sign up to work for them. No need to keep harping on the subject. We are all educated people on here. We can understand things on the first go.
 
I attended the conference too, virtually, and thought it was very well done. The keynote from Brendan Ballou was particularly good, as were the talks by Erin Brown and Mark Hall.

I did find it surprising that they could pull off a fairly good conference and charge a mere $50, when all of the ASA conferences cost an arm and a leg - plus ASA conferences have so much disgusting corporate influence. I vomit when I walk through the ASA exhibit hall and see endless PE backed groups there, plus Pacira of all people was there (after suing the ASA!!!).

It's very disappointing that the ASA conferences don't talk whatsoever about corporate influence into medicine/anesthesia - even though this is clearly a major problem in our field. To that end I applaud the people involved with Take Medicine Back and also AAEM.

I really wish we had an AAEM equivalent in anesthesia.
 
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UscGhost said:
Huh?

I am just pointing out that greedy predatory practices were far more prevalent before the emergence of PE into the anesthesia market (and likely contributed to it). So "taking medicine back" just so that a select few "owners" can take advantage of the new hires isn't that appealing.

If your practice was the only one 10 years ago that didn't have a partnership track, buy in, pay differential then that's great, but certainly not the norm.
Click to expand...
For what it's worth the TMB people at the conference did not give off the vibe that they wanted to revert to predatory private practice models. They seemed sincere in just wanting a fair system that works well for physicians and patients (without PE sucking money out).

I think that predatory private practice models definitely were a problem that facilitated the corporatization of medicine - especially when the partners at the top decided decided to cash out and sell to PE. But that was just one of the many pieces of the current dumpster fire. Corporate entities and PE have got their hands in every single part of medicine now - well beyond comparatively small potatoes physician groups.
 
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makemoney2024 said:
My suggestion to you here is “if it doesn’t apply let it fly”. You pointed it out once. I read it. I get it. You see how lots of people are ignoring this thread? Try that. You have made your point. I know all about predatory groups. They are the ones who got us in this mess because all they cared about was money.
But I also know about fair groups and people who want to have autonomy again or never had it to begin with. Some of us non predators want PE out.
If you don’t that is ok. Sign up to work for them. No need to keep harping on the subject. We are all educated people on here. We can understand things on the first go.
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Sounds like you got some big feelings there.

If you want to take on the big PE empire, you'll need to be a bit less sensitive to counterarguments
 
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It’s true.

Some folks are upset about PE because they don’t want predators in our field. Others are upset because THEY want to be the predators. Some even manage to become predators within the setting of PE.
 
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We can take medicine back all we want, but I have a hard time believing that in todays environment with NSA, payors playing dirty and cutting contracts, and the insane amount of red tape groups have to go through that we'll ever see anything but the massive groups and hospital systems taking over employment.
 
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The traditional institution of medicine is being attacked at all angles. PE, midlevel encroachment, shiet even an xray tech where I work wears a long white coat now :cryi: I will gladly support TMB as they seem to be one of the few organizations to actually be addressing it with sincerity. I stopped giving my money to AMA and ACEP many years ago.
 
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Shimmy8 said:
We can take medicine back all we want, but I have a hard time believing that in todays environment with NSA, payors playing dirty and cutting contracts, and the insane amount of red tape groups have to go through that we'll ever see anything but the massive groups and hospital systems taking over employment.
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Yup.

Medicine is trending towards the employment model across the board. Private practice is dying off.
Insurers and medicare are cutting every year so PP is unsustainable without heavy subsidies. Eventually hospitals will just opt to employ their own rather than pay a middle man (PE or PP owners) to provide the same service.

The non compete is the main issue. In areas without them, labor market forces generally level the playing field between PP and PE groups.
 
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UscGhost said:
Sounds like you got some big feelings there.

If you want to take on the big PE empire, you'll need to be a bit less sensitive to counterarguments
Click to expand...
I am not sensitive. I am just not stupid like you seem to think I am. YOU seem extremely bothered considering you keep harping on the same thing over and over.
If you don’t want to, don’t. No one is holding a gun to your head. Leave it be. Move on! This doesn’t apply to you.
 
DrOMG said:
The traditional institution of medicine is being attacked at all angles. PE, midlevel encroachment, shiet even an xray tech where I work wears a long white coat now :cryi: I will gladly support TMB as they seem to be one of the few organizations to actually be addressing it with sincerity. I stopped giving my money to AMA and ACEP many years ago.
Click to expand...
Well looks like there was some issues with the ACEP and that brought on the AAEM? Seems all squashed now though but apparently the ACEP is similar to the ASA w its corporate involvement and sponsorship.
I really enjoyed the meeting and did not fall asleep. It was very rejuvenating.
 
nimbus said:
It’s true.

Some folks are upset about PE because they don’t want predators in our field. Others are upset because THEY want to be the predators. Some even manage to become predators within the setting of PE.
Click to expand...
I have never owned a practice and have always been employed, associate or locums. I can’t stand predatory practices nor a full time job hence I stay mostly locums. Yes, predators are everywhere that is for sure.
 
makemoney2024 said:
I am not sensitive. I am just not stupid like you seem to think I am. YOU seem extremely bothered considering you keep harping on the same thing over and over.
If you don’t want to, don’t. No one is holding a gun to your head. Leave it be. Move on! This doesn’t apply to you.
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Ahh...the old "I am not sensitive! You are!" argument. Truly insurmountable.

I never said nor implied you were stupid. Just that you were a bit sensitive. Which was evident in your use of multiple exclamation points, all caps, etc.

If you can, try to keep it civil
 
UscGhost said:
Ahh...the old "I am not sensitive! You are!" argument. Truly insurmountable.

I never said nor implied you were stupid. Just that you were a bit sensitive. Which was evident in your use of multiple exclamation points, all caps, etc.

If you can, try to keep it civil
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Oh the old harping on something over and over again and then calling someone “sensitive” when they tell you to mind your business if not interested. I am sure you berate your wife/SO over and over again and then call her sensitive. You jerk men usually do.
Good day. I am not stupid and I don’t need you to repeat things to me over and again. No one is holding a gun to your head. Sign up with Envision, USAP, NorthStar all the above. Knock yourself out
 
makemoney2024 said:
Oh the old harping on something over and over again and then calling someone “sensitive” when they tell you to mind your business if not interested. I am sure you berate your wife/SO over and over again and then call her sensitive. You jerk men usually do.
Good day. I am not stupid and I don’t need you to repeat things to me over and again. No one is holding a gun to your head. Sign up with Envision, USAP, NorthStar all the above. Knock yourself out
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Lol.

I think by posting on a public forum, you are waiving your right to ask people to mind their own business. Not exactly a private discussion now is it?

You should be prepared to handle counterarguments and present your own arguments based on logic or facts. Yelling and telling those with opposing views to mind their own business isn't really productive nor convincing of the potential validity of your viewpoint presented in your OP

At the risk of " repeating things over and over"...

Let's keep it civil
 
UscGhost said:
Lol.

I think by posting on a public forum, you are waiving your right to ask people to mind their own business. Not exactly a private discussion now is it?

You should be prepared to handle counterarguments and present your own arguments based on logic or facts. Yelling and telling those with opposing views to mind their own business isn't really productive nor convincing of the potential validity of your viewpoint presented in your OP

At the risk of " repeating things over and over"...

Let's keep it civil
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Go away. You are unhinged. How many times have you answered on this thread? How many times have others?
Here is my counterpoint. If you aren’t interested in Private Practice, that’s fine. Move on. This post is trying to enlighten and recruit people who are. So… if that is not you, it’s ok. You don’t have to keep inserting yourself in things that don’t apply to you. It’s really that simple. PP to you is badness. PE to you is greatness. That is your opinion.
So this thread does NOT apply and stop trying to make yoursel so relevant in it when you aren’t. You stated your piece. Move on.
 
makemoney2024 said:
Go away. You are unhinged. How many times have you answered on this thread? How many times have others?
Here is my counterpoint. If you aren’t interested in Private Practice, that’s fine. Move on. This post is trying to enlighten and recruit people who are. So… if that is not you, it’s ok. You don’t have to keep inserting yourself in things that don’t apply to you. It’s really that simple. PP to you is badness. PE to you is greatness. That is your opinion.
So this thread does NOT apply and stop trying to make yoursel so relevant in it when you aren’t. You stated your piece. Move on.
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Do they give hugs in PP?
 
UscGhost said:
Do they give hugs in PP?
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I am a Locum. How would I know. Clearly you need some and that’s why you are so bothered about this so much.
Ask the CEOs of PE giving you hugs! That may be all you need to be a little less of a jerk. Probably won’t work but it’s worth a try. You seriously need help. Unhinged!!
 
makemoney2024 said:
I am a Locum. How would I know. Clearly you need some and that’s why you are so bothered about this so much.
Ask the CEOs of PE giving you hugs! That may be all you need to be a little less of a jerk. Probably won’t work but it’s worth a try. You seriously need help. Unhinged!!
Click to expand...
Did you used to post here under a different name? I’m getting flashbacks…
 
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makemoney2024 said:
I am a Locum. How would I know. Clearly you need some and that’s why you are so bothered about this so much.
Ask the CEOs of PE giving you hugs! That may be all you need to be a little less of a jerk. Probably won’t work but it’s worth a try. You seriously need help. Unhinged!!
Click to expand...
Aww. So much name calling. It's ok, I'm alright, sticks and stones...

Its kind of ironic though.. someone posting under the name "makemoney.." and working as a locums (often a route that can be used to maximize returns and minimizes commitment to group building) is railing against PE.
 
It could be Choco. She loved playing the victim card. Apparently the whole world was out to get her
 
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UscGhost said:
Aww. So much name calling. It's ok, I'm alright, sticks and stones...

Its kind of ironic though.. someone posting under the name "makemoney.." and working as a locums (often a route that can be used to maximize returns and minimizes commitment to group building) is railing against PE.
Click to expand...
So what’s wrong with making money? Totally independent don’t want to deal with anyone’s time commitments but mine!!
Again you seem very unhinged. Let it go dude. No gun to head. It’s strictly voluntary.
 
sevo00 said:
It could be Choco. She loved playing the victim card. Apparently the whole world was out to get her
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So someone responding to the same thing over and over as of someone is holding a gun to their head, and gets someone to tell them to let go now is playing victim?
Wow. You people are funny. Ok.
No one is holding anyone gun to anyone’s head. It’s strictly voluntary.
 
makemoney2024 said:
So someone responding to the same thing over and over as of someone is holding a gun to their head, and gets someone to tell them to let go now is playing victim?
Wow. You people are funny. Ok.
No one is holding anyone gun to anyone’s head. It’s strictly voluntary.
Click to expand...
What's with all of the guns and hinges?

Are you posting from inside a Texas Home Depot?
 
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makemoney2024 said:
So someone responding to the same thing over and over as of someone is holding a gun to their head, and gets someone to tell them to let go now is playing victim?
Wow. You people are funny. Ok.
No one is holding anyone gun to anyone’s head. It’s strictly voluntary.
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Wait, am I the "someone" or the "anyone" ? Am I both?
 
nimbus said:
Nothing. But that’s also what the PE sharks say;)
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Yup haha.

Wait , I think we should go back to PP models, so then we can sell out to the PE again in 20 years.

Everyone wins!
 
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pgg said:
Too bad.

I was hoping to hear how Africa worked out.
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And I would know because I live there? Because I remind you of this person? Well it may be nicer than this cold weather. I am sick of winter already. Where in Africa did she go?
 
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