Supreme Court: Mandate Stands

[Frazier]

Originally Posted by nosleep
Translation: You're mad you didn't get into med school so you had to settle for law.

Listen buddy, the value of a lawyer compared to that of a doctor is analogous to the nutritional value of dog turd compared to a four course meal.

Exuding class. If you want me to be honest with you, no offense, kid, but I majored in math at HYPMSC for undergrad and went to a top 5 law school. So odds are, I'm probably smarter than you.

Most smart science students don't go to med school. They get PhDs. All of my science major friends who did well in undergrad got PhDs and did not go to med school. As one of my friends eloquently put it, "only idiot science majors go to med school." And since many low ranked medical schools accept people who are poor standardized test takers, you clearly don't need to be smart to go to medical school. I mean, how do you think you got into medical school?

Thanks to Obamacare, now you will be paid what you are actually intellectually worth. So I guess the world is coming around and putting people like you in your place. I hope you enjoy the dregs of the paid, or should I say unpaid, professions.

Exuding class. If you want me to be honest with you, no offense, kid, but I majored in economics at HYP for undergrad and went to a top 3 med school. Perfect SAT, 43 MCAT, could have chosen any career I wanted. So odds are, I'm probably smarter than you.

Plenty of smart science students go into medicine. Some of us prefer patient interaction and hands on activity as opposed to grunt work and research. Honestly, who do you think you are? Doctors have far higher intellectual worth than lawyers, especially corporate lawyers, which I'm assuming you are since you claim to have gone to such a prestigious law school. Youre still a junior though. I have friends at cravath, skadden, and kirkland Ellis. I know what junior big law lawyers do. Scut work. You spell check, change font, and do grunt work. Wow, incredible intellectual worth. You're a paid monkey.

this is great. please come back often, lawyer guy, and bring all your friends from JD Underground & xoxohth with you.

we need more open physician-lawyer interactions.

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[bocanutz]

Want to see how this will affect physicians? Look at ANY other state that has socialized medicine. You always see quality of life drop and doctors fleeing.

 

[ronaldo23]

in b4 law2doc responds to lawyer/doctor banter

 

[JackShephard MD]

 

[JackShephard MD]

I live in the American Gardens Building on West 81st Street on the 11th floor. My name is Patrick Bateman. I believe in taking care of myself, and a balanced diet and a rigorous exercise routine. In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an ice pack while doing my stomach crunches. I can do a thousand now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial masque which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion. I majored in economics at HYP for undergrad and went to a top 3 med school. Perfect SAT, 43 MCAT. I'm probably smarter than you. I have friends at cravath, skadden, and kirkland Ellis.

 

[Amnipotem]

.

 

[Frazier]

I live in the American Gardens Building on West 81st Street on the 11th floor. My name is Patrick Bateman. I believe in taking care of myself, and a balanced diet and a rigorous exercise routine. In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an ice pack while doing my stomach crunches. I can do a thousand now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial masque which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion. I majored in economics at HYP for undergrad and went to a top 3 med school. Perfect SAT, 43 MCAT. I'm probably smarter than you. I have friends at cravath, skadden, and kirkland Ellis.

legit

 

[Amnipotem]

.

 

[Frazier]

I'm not entirely convinced that you've hit puberty, let alone entered med school, but I'll amuse you. I'm in a relationship, which means I don't need to pay to talk to someone. A psychiatrist is merely a glorified significant other anyway. It's kind of pathetic that you spend 8 years in school to do a job that most men with girlfriends do on a daily basis.

prescribe psychiatric medication and all that jazz?
...or are you constricting their scope strictly as a "therapist"?

 

[crazyozone]

And plenty of dumb students go into medicine. At least that's the general consensus among those pursuing research. "Nosleep" is living proof. You mean, most of you prefer making money, even if have to engage in patient interaction, instead of researching for a reduced salary.

You are the top .0001% of med students. Many med students get into med school with sub 32 MCAT scores and a glossed up personal statement about how their primary motivation is to improve people's lives. But hey, at least if these students decide to pursue an alternate career path, they can always write fiction.

I read a study that found that a computer program diagnosed diseases with a greater accuracy than "physicians." Outside of the specialties, "physicians" are being relegated to the ranks of WebMd. I guess Obama is just cognizant of this fact.

One problem with medicine is how easy it was to graduate and be a doctor once you get into medical school, even if you fluked an admissions. For example, even if you drop out for a year, you still get another chance at a good residency. Every other profession has competition at every level, in school, once you graduate, etc. At least Obamacare is reinstating competition among "physicians" and weeding out the many who get in but cannot hack it in a specialty.

There are plenty of people who can't get into medicine that become phd's--so what. You think you're so smart but you come on here and argue like a 16 year old. Did you have nothing better to do then come onto a medical student website just to try and tell people how much better you think you are than them. I don't know how smart you are and I don't care. Go get a life and talk to other people who you think care what you have to say.

 

[Amnipotem]

.

 

[startoverat40]

Government are the leeches. I'm a surgeon so I know. If I charge 10k for a surgery, Medicaid/Medicare NEVER pays the full amount. On average I get 10% of what I charge and it takes tons of paperwork and months to finally receive payment. Losing money on a Medicaid patient is very common and that is why you see many doctors stating that they no longer treat these patients. Its much less of a headache to just take patients with private insurance as we know we'll get paid.

doctors in Canada and other countries are getting paid, and at comparable rates. so your argument doesn't have any merit on principle. the private insurance leeches will either screw you or the patient or both. they are under the pressure from wallstreet to always increase profits, ie, leeche more and more off of the healthcare dollar.

the medical loss ratio should be 95% or more. there is no benefit to the doctor or the patient for some intermediary to siphon off their transaction.

 

[startoverat40]

medicaid and medicare could pay doctors more if they were funded better. and they can be funded by having everybody pay a little bit higher tax (rather than paying insurance premiums). pay a bit higher tax but don't pay any premiums, and get the care we need, instead of our claims being rejected by insurance leeches. we save money and get our care, and doctors get paid.

 

[KinasePro]

Initially, I posted in this thread to correct misconceptions unrelated to subsequent posts. I do that think a lot of med students feel a sense of self-entitlement just for getting in. Just because you get in and go through the motions does not mean that you deserve absolute immunity from the economy and deserve a half million dollar salary.

Where in this thread did anyone advocate for this straw man argument?

Case in point. Law itself is struggling. Now, the majority of law grads graduate unemployed, even some of those at top schools that are harder to get into than some med programs, and law students also take on hefty loans of $200k. While any law school is easier to get into than any med school, the top tiered law schools have always been difficult to get in, and impossible, if you aren't a good standardized test taker. It's also purely a numbers game, so you need a high LSAT, first and foremost, and/or a high GPA. Once you get in, there's more competition. All of our classes are curved and jobs are given based purely on our grades. After you graduate, there's more competition for jobs.

Maybe that's how medicine should be, competition at every level, instead of a sanctuary after you get admitted. I admit that there are problems with the system, but I was simply disgusted at how some of the posters described their sense of self-entitlement while denigrating other professions. At least with medicine, the lowest dregs of the profession will still get paid a salary under Obamacare, instead of being unemployed as it is with other professions right now.

Medical education used to be like this, and it has since changed for the benefit of patients. Residencies used to be run according to “pyramid structure,” where only a pre-determined portion of starting residents would graduate, and the rest were fired. Also, competition in medicine used to be cutthroat (and still is, at some places). But the literature shows that this benefits no one, especially considering that the most basic skills in our profession require teamwork and benevolence. Now, many schools have P/F grading, and residencies generally graduate everyone who completes their programs. Even with a dramatic increase in medical knowledge that new physicians are responsible for, patient care continues to improve and medical admissions is more competitive than ever. Pretty sure we’re doing it right, and your colleagues are the ones that could stand to take some pointers from us.

I’m not sure exactly where you’re seeing this “self-entitlement” attitude. As many have already stated, physicians are simply against having their paychecks slashed for no good reason.

 

[Gut Shot]

Want to see how this will affect physicians? Look at ANY other state that has socialized medicine. You always see quality of life drop and doctors fleeing.

Which states have socialized medicine?

 

[naus]

Which states have socialized medicine?

Fail in English comprehension.

 

[Gut Shot]

Fail in English comprehension.

I am merely using your words.

 

[Lokhtar]

Want to see how this will affect physicians? Look at ANY other state that has socialized medicine. You always see quality of life drop and doctors fleeing.

Quality of life as measured how? Got data?

Hint: You don't.

 

[CaptainSSO]

I live in the American Gardens Building on West 81st Street on the 11th floor. My name is Patrick Bateman. I believe in taking care of myself, and a balanced diet and a rigorous exercise routine. In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an ice pack while doing my stomach crunches. I can do a thousand now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial masque which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion. I majored in economics at HYP for undergrad and went to a top 3 med school. Perfect SAT, 43 MCAT. I'm probably smarter than you. I have friends at cravath, skadden, and kirkland Ellis.

Hahahaha.

 

[jonmadden]

Which states have socialized medicine?

Most countries with western medicine dont have a pure socialized medicine. They have a certain normal level of coverage so people are treated like dogs, then they have extra insurance people people can buy to cover costs above and beyond that.

Those countries and docs have a much better lifestyle and standard lf living then do we. Canada like one guy said. australia has $16-17 as minmum wage, docs make 350k on 38 hrs a week in the ER. As everyone working over that gets time and half by law. In england PCPs make 300k and no one in the country is required to work more than 48 hrs a week by opting out on their own online

All those euro countries spend more of each dollar in healthcare expenditures on doctors than us.

So go read more of the propaganda the fed and forbes puts out to scare you into submission, dont spend the extra energy forming your own opinion based on something not completely biased. Dont take mine, look it up. Preferably not 5 years old and from a few sources before forming such an overlapping opinion

 

[Gut Shot]

Most countries with western medicine dont have a pure socialized medicine. They have a certain normal level of coverage so people are treated like dogs, then they have extra insurance people people can buy to cover costs above and beyond that.

Those countries and docs have a much better lifestyle and standard lf living then do we. Canada like one guy said. australia has $16-17 as minmum wage, docs make 350k on 38 hrs a week in the ER. As everyone working over that gets time and half by law. In england PCPs make 300k and no one in the country is required to work more than 48 hrs a week by opting out on their own online

All those euro countries spend more of each dollar in healthcare expenditures on doctors than us.

So go read more of the propaganda the fed and forbes puts out to scare you into submission, dont spend the extra energy forming your own opinion based on something not completely biased. Dont take mine, look it up. Preferably not 5 years old and from a few sources before forming such an overlapping opinion

Aight.

 

[JackShephard MD]

Most countries with western medicine dont have a pure socialized medicine. They have a certain normal level of coverage so people are treated like dogs, then they have extra insurance people people can buy to cover costs above and beyond that.

Those countries and docs have a much better lifestyle and standard lf living then do we. Canada like one guy said. australia has $16-17 as minmum wage, docs make 350k on 38 hrs a week in the ER. As everyone working over that gets time and half by law. In england PCPs make 300k and no one in the country is required to work more than 48 hrs a week by opting out on their own online

All those euro countries spend more of each dollar in healthcare expenditures on doctors than us.

So go read more of the propaganda the fed and forbes puts out to scare you into submission, dont spend the extra energy forming your own opinion based on something not completely biased. Dont take mine, look it up. Preferably not 5 years old and from a few sources before forming such an overlapping opinion

Wow, I'm moving to Europe.

 

[jonmadden]

Wow, I'm moving to Europe.

Tell me when you find australia

 

[jonmadden]

Aight.

Sorry

: (

 

[notbobtrustme]

Wow, I'm moving to Europe.

The only real bAd part of European style medicine is that their residencies go on forever. It's not unheard of to be in residency for a decade or more.

 

[Slack3r]

Most countries with western medicine dont have a pure socialized medicine. They have a certain normal level of coverage so people are treated like dogs, then they have extra insurance people people can buy to cover costs above and beyond that.

Those countries and docs have a much better lifestyle and standard lf living then do we. Canada like one guy said. australia has $16-17 as minmum wage, docs make 350k on 38 hrs a week in the ER. As everyone working over that gets time and half by law. In england PCPs make 300k and no one in the country is required to work more than 48 hrs a week by opting out on their own online

All those euro countries spend more of each dollar in healthcare expenditures on doctors than us.

So go read more of the propaganda the fed and forbes puts out to scare you into submission, dont spend the extra energy forming your own opinion based on something not completely biased. Dont take mine, look it up. Preferably not 5 years old and from a few sources before forming such an overlapping opinion

Where are you getting these numbers from?

 

[Gut Shot]

Where are you getting these numbers from?

Time travel.

 

[nysegop]

One more step towards socialism.

 

[JackShephard MD]

Time travel.

I lol'ed

 

[xf3rn4nd3sx]

Good effort. I can imagine how long it took you to edit my text. However, it should have been amnipotent's text in your American Psycho knockoff, rather than mine. You failed to recognize that my response was a parody, or mockery, of amnipotent's response. It was designed to sound pretentious and jovial, just as the original response, while still pointing out the fallacies in his argument. But hey, after your rant about working for free (being such a saint), I wouldn't expect you to understand what a logical fallacy is.

medicaid and medicare could pay doctors more if they were funded better. and they can be funded by having everybody pay a little bit higher tax (rather than paying insurance premiums). pay a bit higher tax but don't pay any premiums, and get the care we need, instead of our claims being rejected by insurance leeches. we save money and get our care, and doctors get paid.

Yes, this is how it could work in theory. I'm was just speaking from experience. Medicaid/medicare doesn't pay me squat. One problem with the system that should somehow be fixed is that medicaid/medicare fraud is rampant. There aren't a lot of doctors gaming the system, but the few that do are ruining it for all. I recently heard of medicare fraud by one doc involving $17 million billed in 3 years. That's ridiculous. He was barely caught (by sheer chance). Can you imagine how many criminal doctors are getting away with this? That's one of my gripes with medicaid/medicare. There is so much paperwork involved that there just isn't enough manpower for the oversight needed to reign in fraud. This is just from personal experience. I'm not defending or attacking the system, but merely pointing out things that are wrong with it before it should be made the national standard.

Most countries with western medicine dont have a pure socialized medicine. They have a certain normal level of coverage so people are treated like dogs, then they have extra insurance people people can buy to cover costs above and beyond that.

Those countries and docs have a much better lifestyle and standard lf living then do we. Canada like one guy said. australia has $16-17 as minmum wage, docs make 350k on 38 hrs a week in the ER. As everyone working over that gets time and half by law. In england PCPs make 300k and no one in the country is required to work more than 48 hrs a week by opting out on their own online

All those euro countries spend more of each dollar in healthcare expenditures on doctors than us.

So go read more of the propaganda the fed and forbes puts out to scare you into submission, dont spend the extra energy forming your own opinion based on something not completely biased. Dont take mine, look it up. Preferably not 5 years old and from a few sources before forming such an overlapping opinion

This is actually true. I'm not sure to what extent because I haven't done too much research on individual salaries, but European (and global) docs on average work far fewer hours than those in the United States. They often have lower compensation, but the ratio of compensation to hours is generally greater than that of physicians in the U.S. People fail to note this when comparing U.S. physicians to those overseas. Education is also far less expensive (or free).

Tell me when you find australia

 

[sean842]

One problem with the system that should somehow be fixed is that medicaid/medicare fraud is rampant. There is so much paperwork involved that there just isn't enough manpower for the oversight needed to reign in fraud. This is just from personal experience.

I brought up earlier in the thread that Medicaid's low administrative costs where due to little oversight and was quickly dismissed, thanks for the evidence backing that up.

This is actually true. I'm not sure to what extent because I haven't done too much research on individual salaries, but European (and global) docs on average work far fewer hours than those in the United States. They often have lower compensation, but the ratio of compensation to hours is generally greater than that of physicians in the U.S. People fail to note this when comparing U.S. physicians to those overseas. Education is also far less expensive (or free).

This gets lost in the discussion to much. Being a physician in the UK is basically a bachelors degree plus a comparatively cushy internship. That's a very well paid BA so it's no wonder doctors over there don't gripe. When I was in the UK kids there paid maybe 3k quid/yr in tuition. If we could make 70k quid/yr off a BA that cost maybe 12k quid I don't think many of us would complain.

For every example people give of the government effectively running a market I can give you a dozen examples of the govt falling on its face.

Post office- been there lately, I have. Mom is in Afghanistan and it takes like 40mins for one dude to send my package. FedEx is the way to go, in and out in 5mins.

DMV- answer is in the question. Come on, 3 months for you to ship me a tag 2 miles from your office to my apt? That's stupid...I would rather take a soldering iron to the eye than go to the DMV. Prove me wrong.

Park services- Seriously I've been trying to reserve a location for a family get together for a week. The website is useless and I honestly don't know if anyone works at the main office because they never return phone calls. No private business would neglect customers like this.

Court systems- Ever tried to do something with the court systems? Seriously, forms for every stupid thing you can think of.

So really, we get it, you care about the patients and helping people and it isn't about the money, blah blah blah. Prove to me that the government is going to someone break the cycle of incompetence and not royally F this one up...frankly I don't think health care is the industry we should be giving govt "one more shot" at things with...it's to important.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Good effort. I can imagine how long it took you to edit my text. However, it should have been amnipotent's text in your American Psycho knockoff, rather than mine. You failed to recognize that my response was a parody, or mockery, of amnipotent's response. It was designed to sound pretentious and jovial, just as the original response, while still pointing out the fallacies in his argument. But hey, after your rant about working for free (being such a saint), I wouldn't expect you to understand what a logical fallacy is.

It was still funny though.

 

[jonmadden]

Good effort. I can imagine how long it took you to edit my text. However, it should have been amnipotent's text in your American Psycho knockoff, rather than mine. You failed to recognize that my response was a parody, or mockery, of amnipotent's response. It was designed to sound pretentious and jovial, just as the original response, while still pointing out the fallacies in his argument. But hey, after your rant about working for free (being such a saint), I wouldn't expect you to understand what a logical fallacy is.



Yes, this is how it could work in theory. I'm was just speaking from experience. Medicaid/medicare doesn't pay me squat. One problem with the system that should somehow be fixed is that medicaid/medicare fraud is rampant. There aren't a lot of doctors gaming the system, but the few that do are ruining it for all. I recently heard of medicare fraud by one doc involving $17 million billed in 3 years. That's ridiculous. He was barely caught (by sheer chance). Can you imagine how many criminal doctors are getting away with this? That's one of my gripes with medicaid/medicare. There is so much paperwork involved that there just isn't enough manpower for the oversight needed to reign in fraud. This is just from personal experience. I'm not defending or attacking the system, but merely pointing out things that are wrong with it before it should be made the national standard.



This is actually true. I'm not sure to what extent because I haven't done too much research on individual salaries, but European (and global) docs on average work far fewer hours than those in the United States. They often have lower compensation, but the ratio of compensation to hours is generally greater than that of physicians in the U.S. People fail to note this when comparing U.S. physicians to those overseas. Education is also far less expensive (or free).

Seriously? Learn to use the internet, past the us headlines. We arent limited to the internet from us sites.

350k was 344k australian EM docs negotiated in their last contract with the government, 38 hrs applies everywhere and 9% to your own retirement fund tax free and not included in any salaries you read. Fed doesnt touch, its yours not like social security which none of us will ever see, maybe not even alot of our parents

For the above 50% of their salary is upfront, above the line tax free at hospitals because they cant use the same deductions as private practice

Just stop reading articles by forbes, insurance companies, politicians or whoever else.

One forbes douche took the same report that showed docs in the US make up 8.6% of healthcare expenditures, lower than every other western medicine country except sweden at 8.5%. germany was like 13-14%

He put up the most cherry picked article on 10 random procedures and compared the cost to other countries and tried to pass that off as docs make too much here. anyone practicing knows whats built into those costs and physician salary isnt the major player in the difference. Most physicians arent paid by test or drug or device in the vast majority of cases.

i think thats even 8.6% of us health expenditures is inflated by throwing in residents and some extreme corporate md outliers. Just do the math, 8.6% of 2.5 trillion over 685k docs, which might be high

Thats 315k a doc, obviously not representative

Just stop being such pigeons and realize that this is all propaganda with trillions at stake-insurance companies, corporations, wall street traders, these are the authors of the statistics and research you and every american quotes as bible.

They dont pay financial writers like the forbes guy to be unbiased or truthful. but the gross misrepresentation of data and statistics for own personal interests is not seen as "untruthful". Its fine for the fda and most scientific articles to a lesser extent

Look up locum tenen jobs in australia, new zealand. From their boards not us recruiters as they obviously cut in.

Go to a countrys own labor statistics, then job boards, then reimbursements and you can make an accurate judgement for yourselves

Seriously suckers, every single one of you just taking as gospel any of these sources

No one else besides your own dumb self is going to look these things up and report a contrary viewpoint back. The poor MDs and their salary isnt a big issue for most people so dont expect them to dig around this propaganda.

theyre closer in their everyday lives to a rich doctor before than a multi millionaire politician, the rich speculators and market manipulators, or the billionaire healthcare corporations

They spin easy lies to swallow

 

[jonmadden]

I brought up earlier in the thread that Medicaid's low administrative costs where due to little oversight and was quickly dismissed, thanks for the evidence backing that up.

This gets lost in the discussion to much. Being a physician in the UK is basically a bachelors degree plus a comparatively cushy internship. That's a very well paid BA so it's no wonder doctors over there don't gripe. When I was in the UK kids there paid maybe 3k quid/yr in tuition. If we could make 70k quid/yr off a BA that cost maybe 12k quid I don't think many of us would complain.

For every example people give of the government effectively running a market I can give you a dozen examples of the govt falling on its face.

Post office- been there lately, I have. Mom is in Afghanistan and it takes like 40mins for one dude to send my package. FedEx is the way to go, in and out in 5mins.

DMV- answer is in the question. Come on, 3 months for you to ship me a tag 2 miles from your office to my apt? That's stupid...I would rather take a soldering iron to the eye than go to the DMV. Prove me wrong.

Park services- Seriously I've been trying to reserve a location for a family get together for a week. The website is useless and I honestly don't know if anyone works at the main office because they never return phone calls. No private business would neglect customers like this.

Court systems- Ever tried to do something with the court systems? Seriously, forms for every stupid thing you can think of.

So really, we get it, you care about the patients and helping people and it isn't about the money, blah blah blah. Prove to me that the government is going to someone break the cycle of incompetence and not royally F this one up...frankly I don't think health care is the industry we should be giving govt "one more shot" at things with...it's to important.

You miss the whole point jackass

"Incompetent government" just furthers their cause of furthering corporate profits and business strategies

They took over the entire student loan industry, 150 billion a year with how many schools and students? In like a year start to finish they were coordinated and in place and its incredibly efficient

Dont think for one ****ing second that the government couldnt run usps like ups or fedex, they can and did have a monopoly and could have kept it.

But what?
They actually finish with money left over at the end of the year?
Maybe use that towards something else?
Or maybe cut funding and run self sufficent?

No, how about cutting taxes from that???

Obvioulsy you never stole anything in your whole dumb life, because it you did you would resell it and return the profits to the rightful owner before the end of the fiscal year.

Theres no payoff obviously for them if they let that happen.

225k in the senate for a seat that cost 10 million doesnt make sense if they just want to burn money or shove it each others orifices.

Do you think they are that utterly stupid? Yea well they love that cause it makes privatization and the intervention by corporations that much easier where all these total *****s make their 10 million back easy

So enjoy fedex while you pay for that service as well as usps when it was completely feasible in every which way to just pay for one for the same service

Dmv great insight, how about they privatize that?...obviously not as traffic fines and other pointless monetary taxes need to be made through that

We're talking 2012 too, leave your schoolboy years back in the uk. Post credit crunch is when **** changed for us and the government

Also I dont know why youre subtley slipping your mom in afghanastan. Only personal detail and unnecessary, go ahead and say why

 

[jonmadden]

I brought up earlier in the thread that Medicaid's low administrative costs where due to little oversight and was quickly dismissed, thanks for the evidence backing that up.

This gets lost in the discussion to much. Being a physician in the UK is basically a bachelors degree plus a comparatively cushy internship. That's a very well paid BA so it's no wonder doctors over there don't gripe. When I was in the UK kids there paid maybe 3k quid/yr in tuition. If we could make 70k quid/yr off a BA that cost maybe 12k quid I don't think many of us would complain.

For every example people give of the government effectively running a market I can give you a dozen examples of the govt falling on its face.

Post office- been there lately, I have. Mom is in Afghanistan and it takes like 40mins for one dude to send my package. FedEx is the way to go, in and out in 5mins.

DMV- answer is in the question. Come on, 3 months for you to ship me a tag 2 miles from your office to my apt? That's stupid...I would rather take a soldering iron to the eye than go to the DMV. Prove me wrong.

Park services- Seriously I've been trying to reserve a location for a family get together for a week. The website is useless and I honestly don't know if anyone works at the main office because they never return phone calls. No private business would neglect customers like this.

Court systems- Ever tried to do something with the court systems? Seriously, forms for every stupid thing you can think of.

So really, we get it, you care about the patients and helping people and it isn't about the money, blah blah blah. Prove to me that the government is going to someone break the cycle of incompetence and not royally F this one up...frankly I don't think health care is the industry we should be giving govt "one more shot" at things with...it's to important.

And court systems? What are you babbling about?

So you think we should let coca cola decide the fate of people in our judicial system? Death penalty, 10 years in a prison.

Well they basically are as we have private jails and the court system is just lawyers making work for themselves, people looking at 10 years in prison will selll their kidneys to pay

But your point? So you have less paperwork when you get busted for spending your quid on a footjob from a hooker?

Thats why this country is bankrupt, people make it too easy to steal from them.

At least people who are scraping by on welfare or minimum wage with minimal formal education have an excuse, physicians really have none and look that much more idiotic for this whole thing.

 

[jonmadden]

Park services website for you and your family?

I swear someone is being paid to write that, you cant be a real person with what you wrote

Leave your family, do them a favor

 

[xf3rn4nd3sx]

Seriously? Learn to use the internet, past the us headlines. We arent limited to the internet from us sites.

350k was 344k australian EM docs negotiated in their last contract with the government, 38 hrs applies everywhere and 9% to your own retirement fund tax free and not included in any salaries you read. Fed doesnt touch, its yours not like social security which none of us will ever see, maybe not even alot of our parents

For the above 50% of their salary is upfront, above the line tax free at hospitals because they cant use the same deductions as private practice

Just stop reading articles by forbes, insurance companies, politicians or whoever else.

One forbes douche took the same report that showed docs in the US make up 8.6% of healthcare expenditures, lower than every other western medicine country except sweden at 8.5%. germany was like 13-14%

He put up the most cherry picked article on 10 random procedures and compared the cost to other countries and tried to pass that off as docs make too much here. anyone practicing knows whats built into those costs and physician salary isnt the major player in the difference. Most physicians arent paid by test or drug or device in the vast majority of cases.

i think thats even 8.6% of us health expenditures is inflated by throwing in residents and some extreme corporate md outliers. Just do the math, 8.6% of 2.5 trillion over 685k docs, which might be high

Thats 315k a doc, obviously not representative

Just stop being such pigeons and realize that this is all propaganda with trillions at stake-insurance companies, corporations, wall street traders, these are the authors of the statistics and research you and every american quotes as bible.

They dont pay financial writers like the forbes guy to be unbiased or truthful. but the gross misrepresentation of data and statistics for own personal interests is not seen as "untruthful". Its fine for the fda and most scientific articles to a lesser extent

Look up locum tenen jobs in australia, new zealand. From their boards not us recruiters as they obviously cut in.

Go to a countrys own labor statistics, then job boards, then reimbursements and you can make an accurate judgement for yourselves

Seriously suckers, every single one of you just taking as gospel any of these sources

No one else besides your own dumb self is going to look these things up and report a contrary viewpoint back. The poor MDs and their salary isnt a big issue for most people so dont expect them to dig around this propaganda.

theyre closer in their everyday lives to a rich doctor before than a multi millionaire politician, the rich speculators and market manipulators, or the billionaire healthcare corporations

They spin easy lies to swallow

Lol I was agreeing with you... I'm not sure why you posted this huge response to me. I said your statement was true. What I meant by I couldn't vouch for the salaries was that I personally had not done extensive research into it...

I honestly laugh every time I read one of your responses because I can't understand what the hell you are saying. It's like 30% info, 60% insulting random people, and 10% ?.

 

[sean842]

Park services website for you and your family?

I swear someone is being paid to write that, you cant be a real person with what you wrote

Leave your family, do them a favor

Ugh, are you done waving your dick around or should we let you finish?

 

[jonmadden]

Ugh, are you done waving your dick around or should we let you finish?

Go put on your short pants and make a few quid, cheers

I imagine your familys too pale and lacks proper incisors to enjoy camping anyway

Maybe you can catch obama on the tele and express this park service reservation site issue youre having.

I mean I wouldnt dare step in on british politics when a bread pudding tax bill was just passes

 

[JackShephard MD]

Seriously? Learn to use the internet, past the us headlines. We arent limited to the internet from us sites.

350k was 344k australian EM docs negotiated in their last contract with the government, 38 hrs applies everywhere and 9% to your own retirement fund tax free and not included in any salaries you read. Fed doesnt touch, its yours not like social security which none of us will ever see, maybe not even alot of our parents

For the above 50% of their salary is upfront, above the line tax free at hospitals because they cant use the same deductions as private practice

Just stop reading articles by forbes, insurance companies, politicians or whoever else.

One forbes douche took the same report that showed docs in the US make up 8.6% of healthcare expenditures, lower than every other western medicine country except sweden at 8.5%. germany was like 13-14%

He put up the most cherry picked article on 10 random procedures and compared the cost to other countries and tried to pass that off as docs make too much here. anyone practicing knows whats built into those costs and physician salary isnt the major player in the difference. Most physicians arent paid by test or drug or device in the vast majority of cases.

i think thats even 8.6% of us health expenditures is inflated by throwing in residents and some extreme corporate md outliers. Just do the math, 8.6% of 2.5 trillion over 685k docs, which might be high

Thats 315k a doc, obviously not representative

Just stop being such pigeons and realize that this is all propaganda with trillions at stake-insurance companies, corporations, wall street traders, these are the authors of the statistics and research you and every american quotes as bible.

They dont pay financial writers like the forbes guy to be unbiased or truthful. but the gross misrepresentation of data and statistics for own personal interests is not seen as "untruthful". Its fine for the fda and most scientific articles to a lesser extent

Look up locum tenen jobs in australia, new zealand. From their boards not us recruiters as they obviously cut in.

Go to a countrys own labor statistics, then job boards, then reimbursements and you can make an accurate judgement for yourselves

Seriously suckers, every single one of you just taking as gospel any of these sources

No one else besides your own dumb self is going to look these things up and report a contrary viewpoint back. The poor MDs and their salary isnt a big issue for most people so dont expect them to dig around this propaganda.

theyre closer in their everyday lives to a rich doctor before than a multi millionaire politician, the rich speculators and market manipulators, or the billionaire healthcare corporations

They spin easy lies to swallow

You miss the whole point jackass

"Incompetent government" just furthers their cause of furthering corporate profits and business strategies

They took over the entire student loan industry, 150 billion a year with how many schools and students? In like a year start to finish they were coordinated and in place and its incredibly efficient

Dont think for one ****ing second that the government couldnt run usps like ups or fedex, they can and did have a monopoly and could have kept it.

But what?
They actually finish with money left over at the end of the year?
Maybe use that towards something else?
Or maybe cut funding and run self sufficent?

No, how about cutting taxes from that???

Obvioulsy you never stole anything in your whole dumb life, because it you did you would resell it and return the profits to the rightful owner before the end of the fiscal year.

Theres no payoff obviously for them if they let that happen.

225k in the senate for a seat that cost 10 million doesnt make sense if they just want to burn money or shove it each others orifices.

Do you think they are that utterly stupid? Yea well they love that cause it makes privatization and the intervention by corporations that much easier where all these total *****s make their 10 million back easy

So enjoy fedex while you pay for that service as well as usps when it was completely feasible in every which way to just pay for one for the same service

Dmv great insight, how about they privatize that?...obviously not as traffic fines and other pointless monetary taxes need to be made through that

We're talking 2012 too, leave your schoolboy years back in the uk. Post credit crunch is when **** changed for us and the government

Also I dont know why youre subtley slipping your mom in afghanastan. Only personal detail and unnecessary, go ahead and say why

And court systems? What are you babbling about?

So you think we should let coca cola decide the fate of people in our judicial system? Death penalty, 10 years in a prison.

Well they basically are as we have private jails and the court system is just lawyers making work for themselves, people looking at 10 years in prison will selll their kidneys to pay

But your point? So you have less paperwork when you get busted for spending your quid on a footjob from a hooker?

Thats why this country is bankrupt, people make it too easy to steal from them.

At least people who are scraping by on welfare or minimum wage with minimal formal education have an excuse, physicians really have none and look that much more idiotic for this whole thing.

Park services website for you and your family?

I swear someone is being paid to write that, you cant be a real person with what you wrote

Leave your family, do them a favor

Go put on your short pants and make a few quid, cheers

I imagine your familys too pale and lacks proper incisors to enjoy camping anyway

Maybe you can catch obama on the tele and express this park service reservation site issue youre having.

I mean I wouldnt dare step in on british politics when a bread pudding tax bill was just passes

Your word to paragraph ratio is like 10:1. Your sentences also often lack punctuation. Where did you learn to write like that?

 

[sean842]

Okay buddy put your bib on so I can spoon feed the cliff notes on this one:

Government organizations tend to be grossly inefficient compared to their private market counterparts hence my reservations about turning health care over to the govt. Whether they should be public/private is a case by case debate (ie courts should be public even if inefficient)

Liberal or Conservative, I don't judge as long as the discussion remains civil, but you sir are a complete ass hat.

 

[Gut Shot]

Government organizations tend to be grossly inefficient compared to their private market counterparts

Can we have some supporting evidence for this assertion?

 

[valkener]

It's funny how so many Americans think private = good, public = bad. Deregulation of banks etc. is what got us into the recession in the first place. There can be too much regulation and too much deregulation. Regulating health care was extremely necessary and the ACA is a great step towards a better society.

Funny how while America is ranking worse and worse in comparison to other countries in so many areas of life, people still buy the GOP propaganda but in reality you are only helping the 1%, and I doubt you belong to the 1%.

 

[jonmadden]

Okay buddy put your bib on so I can spoon feed the cliff notes on this one:

Government organizations tend to be grossly inefficient compared to their private market counterparts hence my reservations about turning health care over to the govt. Whether they should be public/private is a case by case debate (ie courts should be public even if inefficient)

Liberal or Conservative, I don't judge as long as the discussion remains civil, but you sir are a complete ass hat.

Oh ok i had trouble finding a bib so it took me awhile...

Wow

Thats good sean, you're one of the best on this site. A Critical and independent thinker for the future physician slave force

And to the person happy about ACA,
"private" or "public", "left" or "right" wing, Obama vs mitt.

These things have become completely arbitrary and pointless delineations, if they ever were separate idealogies besides in the gullable americans mind. One thing you should be sure of is neither will do anything besides bleed this country till collapse.

The ACA is just a tax, and it will be used as a tool to deny physicians reimbursement and force them into employees.

Insurance is an automatic cost additive factor in the commerce between two parties, if it didnt then insurance companies would cease to exist. Thats an economic fact, so I can state that with sean certainty. $1 of care costs $1.25 in premium, often worse though obama allows for 20% max based on their own policing

This adds to our healthcare costs from day 1 without any increase in benefit to people. It just gives their budget more breathing room to steal.

And look up the financial statements, nonprofit and profit, they all had the same effect on patients/doctors.

Cut reimbursements and/or delay, deny patiets coverage (they cant deny now but they will avoid at all costs a high risk application and will), and use this excess for internal investment or expansion if youre nonprofit or if youre profit throw it in the wall street money pit where it disappears from the american economy for 99.9% of people.

Oregon had a great pdf state report and they showed this exact situation, kaiser NW was the biggest name but they all did the same. So grow up and stop regurgitating your "left" or "right" parents dribble, cause unless they are in office or making 8 figures on wall street they were both wrong and one of the many suckers they made out of everyone. They dont even know how broke they are because we are barred off from inflation that the rest of the world is keepin up with. As well as housing which has a way to go before reaching true value.

The fact we are still forced into this "democratic" election BS shows how little control we have over anything.

Its totally within our means to have direct forms of voting, I dont even care if everyone voted for justin bieber because clearly no one could do any worse then the sequence that led here. A total unqualified idiot would actually be better cause at least we'd know we werent being taken advantage of.

 

[jonmadden]

And the HSA with higher deductible premium actually was a solution but insurance companies made the difference in premium totally nominal. Like 225 vs 235 a month, plenty of reports show that.

Obviously a higher deductible should cost less as any person whos bought car insurance should know, but why this didnt apply here is because this would effectively cut insurance companies out of like 90% of the healthcare transactions a person makes in their lifetime. Anything besides inpatient care basically. That $1 in healthcare for $1.25 in premium markup would be lost to these companies, most of their profit and the more predictable spectrum of their Cost/Risk.

This is moot now cause obama requires many of these small predictable annual healthcare expenditures as minimum level of coverage and "free" with the premium. The annual wellness and some other things.

Thats one of the few ways to cut into healthcares annual cost without losing any benefit to doctor or patient or taxpayer as the only thing youre losing is the premium markup.

If the premiums were priced honestly and doctors priced their services down to match the less overhead then it would make the biggest difference next to regulation of pharmas/nursing, long term facilities chokehold

But some clown in a black robe says otherwise and im supposed to give a ****. Blow me your honor.

 

[jonmadden]

One upside to this corporate lobbying and logical progression to corruption is the for profit education programs now make getting your law degree possible online and the state of california bar as well as others i think, and if not a bunch allow reciprocity after that bar.

Like 2k a year and you wont have to hire a lawyer for the many mundane roles they fulfill. Frivolous lawsuits will be my backup plan with sean842 first up, his kids and wife before their national park hiking trip extravaganza as well

The aba allows 12 credits of distance and likely more in the future

A loss to lawyers is a win to everyone

Hey sean! get a towel cause Im about to ejaculate some wisdom, you suck you jackass

 

[JackShephard MD]

I can't believe that jonmadden is a US medical student.

 

[xf3rn4nd3sx]

One upside to this corporate lobbying and logical progression to corruption is the for profit education programs now make getting your law degree possible online and the state of california bar as well as others i think, and if not a bunch allow reciprocity after that bar.

Like 2k a year and you wont have to hire a lawyer for the many mundane roles they fulfill. Frivolous lawsuits will be my backup plan with sean842 first up, his kids and wife before their national park hiking trip extravaganza as well

The aba allows 12 credits of distance and likely more in the future

A loss to lawyers is a win to everyone

Hey sean! get a towel cause Im about to ejaculate some wisdom, you suck you jackass

I can't believe that jonmadden is a US medical student.

I can't believe jonmadden just used the phrase "ejaculate some wisdom"...
Not sure if he's a medical student or not, but he's hilarious lol. Literally every single post has some element of comedic genius.

 

[KinasePro]

I can't believe jonmadden just used the phrase "ejaculate some wisdom"...
Not sure if he's a medical student or not, but he's hilarious lol. Literally every single post has some element of comedic genius.

srsly this guy is entertaining as hell. you on twitter yet, jonmadden?

 

[JackShephard MD]

I can't believe jonmadden just used the phrase "ejaculate some wisdom"...
Not sure if he's a medical student or not, but he's hilarious lol. Literally every single post has some element of comedic genius.

srsly this guy is entertaining as hell. you on twitter yet, jonmadden?

Lol, agreed.