Student Loan Forgiveness

[Jummy Biffett]

Thoughts on the 10k debt relief? Sadly, many DPMs will qualify for this because they make under 125k...

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[Dr. Little Foot]

Is it going to apply to us? The reports I read are all vague, but I know previous debt cancellation proposals were only for undergraduate loans.

 

[PMG03470]

Is it going to apply to us? The reports I read are all vague, but I know previous debt cancellation proposals were only for undergraduate loans.

Yup, it applies to us. As long as it is federal student loans. You have to make under 125k single or 250k married.

 

[Pronation]

Prediction: all pod schools increase their prices by 10k next year

 

[Jummy Biffett]

Prediction: all pod schools increase their prices by 10k next year

"Don't worry about the tuition increase, you're going to get a job paying 250k after residency and the government will cancel your loans anyways!"

 

[Shiyuan]

Chump change.

 

[dtrack22]

They are buying votes. This doesn’t do anything to solve the “student loan crisis,” ie tuition for useless degrees that stupid people took out loans for.

Gov needs to get out of all undergrad loans. Watch tuition prices fall. Honestly they should get out of grad school loans too. High paying degrees like medicine will still have private banks lining up to loan money. Interest rates for things like law school and podiatry school will be higher (and loans in general could be harder to get) which would hopefully mean less applicants and graduates. It’s a win win all around when you think about it.

 

[Scrantonicity]

$10K is hilarious when you have 275-300K in loans. I bet less than 3 people in the country are excited about this...they were $10K away from total financial ruin...

 

[Boba Foot]

They are buying votes. This doesn’t do anything to solve the “student loan crisis,” ie tuition for useless degrees that stupid people took out loans for.

Gov needs to get out of all undergrad loans. Watch tuition prices fall. Honestly they should get out of grad school loans too. High paying degrees like medicine will still have private banks lining up to loan money. Interest rates for things like law school and podiatry school will be higher (and loans in general could be harder to get) which would hopefully mean less applicants and graduates. It’s a win win all around when you think about it.

Give me one instance in which privatizing a sector has lowered prices.

Tuition limits need to be set, and then student loans need to be given interest-free. Access to higher education should not be a for-profit endeavor.

 

[Boba Foot]

Thoughts on the 10k debt relief? Sadly, many DPMs will qualify for this because they make under 125k...

The 10k forgiveness doesn’t do a whole lot for us, but if you’re going the IDR-and-forgiveness route like myself, the new IDR plan can potentially help quite a bit.

Biden's Huge Plan for Student Loan Cancellation and Forgiveness

President Biden is forgiving hundreds of billions of dollars in student loans. It's just not the straight cancellation way he proposed.

www.studentloanplanner.com

 

[air bud]

I assume they had to be federal when opened correct? Like you refinanced to private but this are still eligible? In the before times unless you were going for PSLF keeping federal rates was crazy.

 

[dtrack22]

Give me one instance in which privatizing a sector has lowered prices.

You can’t raise the price on a product people aren’t buying. And even if tuition continued to increase for engineering majors, overall college expenditures/loans would fall when you either had to pay for your communications degree or just not go to college. But you’re asking the wrong question. College was always going to cost more today than it did 20 years ago. But would it have increased at the rate in which it has without essentially unlimited federally guaranteed student loans? If you think the answer to that is yes, you are an idiot. No offense. The mortgage crisis in 2008 should have taught everyone that. You can’t give people cheap or free money who are a job change away from not being able to afford it. Just like you can’t loan someone $200k for a degree that leads to a $40k job as a social worker. If the private sector or Universities themselves were on the hook for defaults, tuition prices would have risen with inflation but never have outpaced it by a few hundred %. Gender studies degrees might not even exist anymore outside of a few universities. Colleges and degree programs would be consolidated amongst various state schools which would lower overhead.

This isn’t terribly different from healthcare. When you look at out of pocket costs for individuals over the past 30 years, they have decreased. Now, you pay just as much for healthcare and as a country costs have gone up, but you aren’t paying that money to the doctor directly. Your premium goes up but your copay is unchanged. More and more people also become reliant on government funded programs where they don’t pay a penny. When the consumer does not have to write the check, so to speak, they utilize more healthcare. Often times unnecessarily. Paying out of pocket for things makes you a more frugal and well informed consumer. And then when people have to compete for your dollars, it at least reduces how fast those costs rise. Look at most consumer electronics. TVs and computers are essentially significantly cheaper when you control for the technological advancements and computing power offered now. You know what area of consumer electronics really doesn’t follow this rule? Cell phones. Why is that? Maybe because the cost of the phone is subsidized or offered at a 0% interest rate from your carrier. This causes people to get phones they don’t need or maybe otherwise couldn’t afford and allows for Apple and sumsung and LG to continue to raise prices despite theoretical competition in the market place.

Tuition caps are are unnecessary and caps such as this have never had the intended effect. Other costs and fees would rise as long as students have access to guaranteed loans to give to Universities. And your interest free loan idea only exacerbates the current problem.

Higher education should be devalued. Teachers should spend 2 years getting an associates and then a year or two student teaching, then they get certified. Would help these supposed teacher shortages. Medical school should start in undergrad. HR personnel should be able to work right out of high school with on the job training. More people should be encouraged to go into trades. A higher % of American students go to college than pretty much every other developed country. We don’t need more people spending more gov money on an unnecessary degree. Or we could make college a social program and just significantly limit the number of people who can go to college via standardized high school testing programs, like they do in most of Europe. That would go over real well with the, “everything is racist” crowd...

 

[Jummy Biffett]

I assume they had to be federal when opened correct? Like you refinanced to private but this are still eligible? In the before times unless you were going for PSLF keeping federal rates was crazy.

I'm almost certain this wouldn't apply if you refinanced and your loans are held privately...

 

[newfeet]

The 10k forgiveness doesn’t do a whole lot for us, but if you’re going the IDR-and-forgiveness route like myself, the new IDR plan can potentially help quite a bit.

Biden's Huge Plan for Student Loan Cancellation and Forgiveness

President Biden is forgiving hundreds of billions of dollars in student loans. It's just not the straight cancellation way he proposed.

www.studentloanplanner.com

It’s a little late for me. I just finished by 10 years. Waiting to get the forgiveness.

I’m glad it might help you!

 

[Scrantonicity]

The 10k forgiveness doesn’t do a whole lot for us, but if you’re going the IDR-and-forgiveness route like myself, the new IDR plan can potentially help quite a bit.

Biden's Huge Plan for Student Loan Cancellation and Forgiveness

President Biden is forgiving hundreds of billions of dollars in student loans. It's just not the straight cancellation way he proposed.

www.studentloanplanner.com

I just read this--how does it help if your loans are all graduate loans? Payment is still 10% of discretionary income, and if you're getting the loans forgiven down the road anyways who cares what kind of interest accrues?

 

[Boba Foot]

You can’t raise the price on a product people aren’t buying. And even if tuition continued to increase for engineering majors, overall college expenditures/loans would fall when you either had to pay for your communications degree or just not go to college. But you’re asking the wrong question. College was always going to cost more today than it did 20 years ago. But would it have increased at the rate in which it has without essentially unlimited federally guaranteed student loans? If you think the answer to that is yes, you are an idiot. No offense. The mortgage crisis in 2008 should have taught everyone that. You can’t give people cheap or free money who are a job change away from not being able to afford it. Just like you can’t loan someone $200k for a degree that leads to a $40k job as a social worker. If the private sector or Universities themselves were on the hook for defaults, tuition prices would have risen with inflation but never have outpaced it by a few hundred %. Gender studies degrees might not even exist anymore outside of a few universities. Colleges and degree programs would be consolidated amongst various state schools which would lower overhead.

Student debt is debt that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy or basically any reason other than becoming a quadriplegic or dying. Give private lenders the chance to lend with basically no way out of a loan other than death, and they will exploit the hell out of it, I guarantee you. People will pursue high cost/high income degrees as long as they continue to yield a high income, just as they are now. It doesn't matter if the lender is private or public. I don't buy your argument that the market will set the price of degrees itself through private lenders. At the end of the day, working a $200-300k/yr job with $300k in student debt is still more financially beneficial than working a minimum wage job for the rest of your life.

Your example of health care is a perfect example of how the private sector increases the costs of everything. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the U.S. has insane health care costs due to privatization compared with other countries with nationalized health care systems.

 

[Boba Foot]

I assume they had to be federal when opened correct? Like you refinanced to private but this are still eligible? In the before times unless you were going for PSLF keeping federal rates was crazy.

Only federal loans qualify, no private loans. Refinanced loans do not qualify either. Never refinance to a private lender if you're pursuing any sort of forgiveness plan.

 

[Boba Foot]

I just read this--how does it help if your loans are all graduate loans? Payment is still 10% of discretionary income, and if you're getting the loans forgiven down the road anyways who cares what kind of interest accrues?

It can potentially lower that 10% depending on the ratio of undergrad to grad loans. If all your loans are grad loans, it doesn't do much for you. I have both, so it can help me a little bit.

Accrued interest matters if the IBR "tax bomb" still exists when the loans are forgiven. More interest accrued= more taxes you'll have to pay on that amount when it's forgiven. Currently the tax bomb is eliminated through 2025, but hoping that is extended or made permanent depending on who's in the White House then.

 

[air bud]

Only federal loans qualify, no private loans. Refinanced loans do not qualify either. Never refinance to a private lender if you're pursuing any sort of forgiveness plan.

Correct. As has been previously discussed, PSLF is basically impossible for 98 percent of podiatrists....refinanced my a few different times. Last 2 years have been. Around 0.25 to 0.65%...
Look at me being the dumb one and paying a higher rate and than all these people with federal loans..

 

[heybrother]

I've received a fair amount of federal largess through time (Pell Grants, stimulus checks, federal work on a "shovel ready project", kid tax money even though I made 6-figures, etc). I have a direct family member who was a federal employee, gets social security, and money from the VA claim. A substantial portion of the money I make is paid from Medicare and MA plans. I'm trying not to become my wife's aunt screaming about hating the government while cashing her social security check. I want to have some perspective on my own hypocrisy. That said - ugh I hate it. This has been in the works for a long time with the amounts obviously all over the place. The education system won't be fixed through forgiveness. Costs have to be reduced. The interests of the country are seldom served by the interests of colleges (or hospitals, oh oh). I won't do the rant about "worthless" degrees but if your degree consistently leads to a career path that consistently pays $40-75K for the length of your career that degree cannot cost $100-200K in debt. My masters cost I believe $17K back in the day (and the interest was subsidized). I paid it off in like 2 years living very frugally. Would I have loved for someone to forgive $10-20K of it - sure. But it was more than affordable even on a starting $42K salary.

 

[dtrack22]

Give private lenders the chance to lend with basically no way out of a loan other than death, and they will exploit the hell out of it,

Um, the reason those loans cannot be discharged is because they are federally backed. A private student loan can be discharged. 0 for 1

I don't buy your argument that the market will set the price of degrees itself through private lenders. At the end of the day, working a $200-300k/yr job with $300k in student debt is still more financially beneficial than working a minimum wage job for the rest of your life.

We aren’t talking about high income professionals who can pay back student loans due to their high income. That debt is being paid off by the borrowers no matter how many physicians bank on some sort of forgiveness program. The default rate among healthcare professionals I believe is far less than 1%. The “student loan crisis” (what a dumb/hyperbolic term) consists of those undergraduate degrees where the cost to attend is many multiples of the expected yearly income. Social workers. Communications degree holders. Some teachers that attend $200k private schools with no scholarship for a BA/BS. Etc. If universities were forced to back loans, or if the loans were underwritten by any financial institution, a cost/benefit analysis would be done and you could not get a loan for a Gender Studies degree from Amherst. If you could, the interest rate would be so high that essentially only people who could afford to blow the money could do it. The market wouldn’t change much for a medical degree. But it would absolutely change the availability, frequency, and cost of the degrees that are the source of this “crisis.” 0 for 2

Your example of health care is a perfect example of how the private sector increases the costs of everything. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the U.S. has insane health care costs due to privatization compared with other countries with nationalized health care systems.

There is nothing “free market” about healthcare. I thought you were actually in practice. We have a bastardized “private” system that is anything but private. It is a half government, half 3rd party payer system where the consumer is not actually forced to be a consumer. This is just like the difference between TVs and cell phones. The only aspect of healthcare that resembles a “free market” is direct primary care. And I’m sure I don’t have to remind you that it allows a physician to deliver virtually unlimited care (within their scope of practice) for $100 per month, including some lab work. They make more money, seeing less patients, and spend more time with patients. And because this is a direct expense to the patients, those physicians will tell you that they are generally respectful of their time (after hours as many will give the patients direct contact info) and more likely to follow recommendations. Even the hard stuff like diet and activity modifications. Over 50% of my day is Medicare and Medicaid patients. There is nothing “private” about our healthcare system and the cost increases are strongly correlated to administrative bloat (necessary to navigate complex healthcare bureaucracy implemented by state and federal orgs/programs) and the rise of 3rd party payments to providers. Calling our system “private” or anything resembling a free market demonstrates a total lack of understanding of healthcare in America. 0 for 3.

 

[Boba Foot]

Um, the reason those loans cannot be discharged is because they are federally backed. A private student loan can be discharged. 0 for 1


We aren’t talking about high income professionals who can pay back student loans due to their high income. That debt is being paid off by the borrowers no matter how many physicians bank on some sort of forgiveness program. The default rate among healthcare professionals I believe is far less than 1%. The “student loan crisis” (what a dumb/hyperbolic term) consists of those undergraduate degrees where the cost to attend is many multiples of the expected yearly income. Social workers. Communications workers. Some teachers that attend $200k private schools with no scholarship for a BA/BS. Etc. If universities were forced to back loans, or if the loans were underwritten by any financial institution, a cost/benefit analysis would be done and you could not get a loan for a Gender Studies degree from Amherst. If you could, the interest rate would be so high that essentially only people who could afford to blow the money could do it. The market wouldn’t change much for a medical degree. But it would absolutely change the availability, frequency, and cost of the degrees that are the source of this “crisis.” 0 for 2



There is nothing “free market” about healthcare. I thought you were actually in practice. We have a bastardized “private” system that is anything but private. It is a half government, half 3rd party payer system where the consumer is not actually forced to be a consumer. This is just like the difference between TVs and cell phones. The only aspect of healthcare that resembles a “free market” is direct primary care. And I’m sure I don’t have to remind you that it allows a physician to deliver virtually unlimited care (within their scope of practice) for $100 per month, including some lab work. They make more money, seeing less patients, and spend more time with patients. And because this is a direct expense to the patients, those physicians will tell you that they are generally respectful of their time (after hours as many will give the patients direct contact info) and more likely to follow recommendations. Even the hard stuff like diet and activity modifications. Over 50% of my day is Medicare and Medicaid patients. There is nothing “private” about our healthcare system and the cost increases are strongly correlated to administrative bloat (necessary to navigate complex healthcare bureaucracy implemented by state and federal orgs/programs) and the rise of 3rd party payments to providers. Calling our system “private” or anything resembling a free market demonstrates a total lack of understanding of healthcare in America. 0 for 3.

Lots o text and still no example of one instance in which privatizing a sector has decreased costs.

Also, “A similar story more or less repeated itself during the Bush administration. Major private lenders claimed they needed Congress to stop their customers from filing opportunistic bankruptcies. Despite the notable lack of evidence that this was actually happening, lawmakers listened, and inserted a clause into the 2005 bankruptcy reform bill making private student loans nondischargeable unless someone could demonstrate they posed an ‘undue burden’ on their finances—a vague standard which the courts have subsequently interpreted as an incredibly high bar.” (How the Bush Administration Pointlessly Screwed Over Student Borrowers)
0 for 0 for 1?

 

[dtrack22]

Lots o text and still no example of one instance in which privatizing a sector has decreased costs.

I guess you refuse to acknowledge the decrease in price of most consumer electronics that I already posted. But let’s say you aren’t talking free market and purely the privatization of government services…

Steve Hanke is an economist who was at Hopkins for a long time. He has demonstrated reduction in costs when it comes to contracting out government services. A few:

-private mail delivery stores had an 88% reduction in cost of counter service compared to actual USPS offices.

- a 50% cost savings utilizing private security in public buildings (ie town hall) compared to city employed security

- a 20-50% reduction in costs for contracted wastewater/sewage treatment facility construction and also less lag time in terms of time to completion.

Other studies have shown reduced costs when maintenance was contracted out at Air Force bases. A study done by the Canadians showed increased efficiency of US airports due to the American airports having to borrow capital from the market in order to finance operations. Also a 40% cost savings in the private American airport system when compared to Canadian gov run airports.

And another conveniently ignored example in the post you quoted, DPC delivers care cheaper than any gov run program or 3rd party payer.


Moving on. So the government making some aspects of private loans difficult to discharge proves what exactly? Other than government interference in a market economy generally leads to negative unintended consequences. Privatization alone and a market economy had nothing to do with what you posted about Congress and the Bush admin. You ask for more gov regulation and involvement (tuition caps and 0% interest loans for everyone) and then complain about previous gov regulation and involvement. That’s like saying the free market or privatization doesn’t work because the banks were bailed out in 2009. By the government. And somehow that is the market or private sectors fault. Your copied and pasted paragraph about Bush and student loans is a perfect example of government involvement screwing something up.

An unlimited supply of cheap money makes prices go up. How anyone does not understand that with our current rate of inflation and the last two years of “money printer go brrrrrrr” is beyond me. College tuition is not immune to this basic economic principle.

 

[Boba Foot]

I guess you refuse to acknowledge the decrease in price of most consumer electronics that I already posted.

I ignored the electronics example because it's a poor comparison. You're using industry that has always been privatized as a reason to justify privatizing government services. You're comparing apples to oranges. A good comparison would be how poorly privatizing the prison system has turned out. It's generally a horrible idea to take something that is generally regarded as a public service and then hand it over to private corporations with profit incentive. The basic goal of private industry is to extract the most wealth from another party and provide the most minimal service to maximize profit. Tell me, why do we need to add bank profit onto student loans? Why does a profit need to be turned on offering education and opportunity to youth? Why can't we just offer 0% loans that can actually feasibly be paid in full? A $200k loan wouldn't be insurmountable if it didn't capitalize to $500k during the life of the loan.

The article I quoted wasn't an example of "government interference", it was an example of the private sector using it's lobbying power within a pro-business administration to prevent large loans from being able to be discharged in bankruptcy like any other loan is. Reinforcing the fact that private sector influence is against the public's interest in many cases. I guess you didn't get the point.

 

[dtrack22]

The article I quoted wasn't an example of "government interference"

No? Who voted on and signed the legislation? Was it the banks or elected public officials?

 

[podwho]

not sure why people can’t be happy for those benefiting? Y’all just a bunch of miserable people.

If you had student loans you didn’t have to make a payment for 33ish months with 0 increase in debt/interest, and 10k forgiven. Plus the money you would have paid would have gone to quality of life and investments. Collectively you got a massive benefit.

Not every legislation has to help you or be about you.

Podiatry can’t get together to fix their board issues but y’all expect the country to come together to pass a “perfect” legislation.

Lastly, duh, Biden did something good for the people that voted for him. Like that’s the point. That’s how elections work. It doesn’t have to make sense financial or morally. The same way Trump gave a 750 billion tax break to top 5% of Americans. I bet the rich podiatrist here didn’t complain about that one.

 

[dtrack22]

not sure why people can’t be happy for those benefiting? Y’all just a bunch of miserable people.

If you had student loans you didn’t have to make a payment for 33ish months with 0 increase in debt/interest, and 10k forgiven. Plus the money you would have paid would have gone to quality of life and investments. Collectively you got a massive benefit.

Not every legislation has to help you or be about you.

Podiatry can’t get together to fix their board issues but y’all expect the country to come together to pass a “perfect” legislation.

Lastly, duh, Biden did something good for the people that voted for him. Like that’s the point. That’s how elections work. It doesn’t have to make sense financial or morally. The same way Trump gave a 750 billion tax break to top 5% of Americans. I bet the rich podiatrist here didn’t complain about that one.

Yeah why should anyone have a problem with the executive branch bypassing elected representatives, claiming that we are still in a state of emergency from covid allowing them to use a wartime act in order to spend $300 billion dollars of tax payer money? Just to transfer money to adults who entered into a voluntary contract with a lending institution, knowing the terms of said contract at the time of execution? Not to mention none of this changes the fact that thousands of Americans will continue the poor financial decisions that got them into this position in the first place, when will the next round of forgiveness be?

Bringing the Trump tax cut into this is laughable. Individuals with AGI of $15-50k experienced the largest % tax break out of all filers. When you combine those with AGI of $15-50k and $50-100k, they saw a % decrease in taxes that was over double households who reported income of over $1 million dollars. The people hurt the most by his tax policy was high income W2 wage earners in states with high SALT taxes (NY, CA, OR, etc). So really, rich employed podiatrists got screwed in many cases. Over 90% of Americans paid less in taxes due to the tax legislation and the top 1% saw a smaller % of relief than the middle class. Median household income in 2018 and then again in 2019 grew faster than it had in any single year since the statistic started being measured/recorded. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

 

[podwho]

lol I didnt even say if i agreed or disagreed with it. It is what it is. Id rather be happy for the people that benefited. Legality of it is technically unknown for now, but no I dont like how he did it but thats the case for nearly ever executive order. Theres so much wrong about it but im not going to cry over other people benefiting. Like i said it doesnt have to make sense, americans who voted for this wanted it. Dont matter what I think. Espically since trillions were just printed last few year and most of the money went to people to didnt need it, (ex ppp loans that were forgiven lol such a scam)

Also using % of income is disingenuous. "I only saw 0.5% tax reduction but you saw 2%, you clearly benefited more!" when reality it was a 2k reduction vs 24k reduction. By your logic why even give away 750 billion to top 5% of americans at all? They clearly didnt NEED the money. We still have to pay for it. Am I supposed to feel bad for the podiatrist who got "screwed"? The ones with the millions of dollars ? lol

This is all politics talk and all I can do is vote. With everything else just enjoy the ride.

In terms of podiatry the less debt new grads are in the less chance they accept trash job offers and start their own practice. I know if a few that were able to pull that off beacuse they didnt have to pay 3k in monthly payments for student loans. Thats a win.

 

[Boba Foot]

Just to transfer money to adults who entered into a voluntary contract with a lending institution, knowing the terms of said contract at the time of execution? Not to mention none of this changes the fact that thousands of Americans will continue the poor financial decisions that got them into this position in the first place, when will the next round of forgiveness be?

Bringing the Trump tax cut into this is laughable. Individuals with AGI of $15-50k experienced the largest % tax break out of all filers.

This is the guy that walks into the doctors lounge and switches the TV to Fox News.

 

[Shiyuan]

This is the guy that walks into the doctors lounge and switches the TV to Fox News.

Forget the news. I’ll be trying to find some ol’ 1970’s dubbed kung fu flick.

 

[Dr. Little Foot]

Forget the news. I’ll be trying to find some ol’ 1970’s dubbed kung fu flick.

Wonder what those kung fu stuntmen's feet look like on xray

 

[snooper]

Higher education should be devalued. Teachers should spend 2 years getting an associates and then a year or two student teaching, then they get certified. Would help these supposed teacher shortages

Why not do the same with medical education? Used to be like that in the old days.
The problem with teacher education in this country is that it's already the least competitive/attractive profession. Making it even less so by lowering standards, isn't the solution. In some countries, the best and brightest go into education, and it shows in their outcomes.

 

[Pronation]

Why not do the same with medical education? Used to be like that in the old days.
The problem with teacher education in this country is that it's already the least competitive/attractive profession. Making it even less so by lowering standards, isn't the solution. In some countries, the best and brightest go into education, and it shows in their outcomes.

This happened with vascular surgery, instead of 5 + 2 years it was shortened to a direct 5 year integrated residency.

Anyway I think we need to shift our attention to more important issues like from APMA emails - what speed should we set our nail dremel to prevent deadly thermal necrosis… is foot lotion best applied in a circular motion or up and down?

 

[Jummy Biffett]

This happened with vascular surgery, instead of 5 + 2 years it was shortened to a direct 5 year integrated residency.

Anyway I think we need to shift our attention to more important issues like from APMA emails - what speed should we set our nail dremel to prevent deadly thermal necrosis… is foot lotion best applied in a circular motion or up and down?

Can we also conduct a longitudinal study on podiatrists' lung function after years of inhaling fungal spores?

 

[dtrack22]

Why not do the same with medical education? Used to be like that in the old days.

Sure, I’m a fan of the 2+4 undergrad/medical school models. I’m all for more of those.

The problem with teacher education in this country is that it's already the least competitive/attractive profession. Making it even less so by lowering standards, isn't the solution. In some countries, the best and brightest go into education, and it shows in their outcomes.

Not everywhere, and it’s not “unattractive” because of any certification standards, rather it’s the pay (again, in some places) and the kids/parents/admins that you now have to deal with. In Washington the median teacher pay is around $70k. The highest paying district tops out teacher pay at $130k and even rural districts (like the ones my parents work in) start at $54k and top out at $102k for teachers. We don’t have a real issue with teacher shortages outside of some of the bigger city public school districts where, again, the issue seems to be people not wanting to deal with those kids and parents when they can make good money elsewhere in the state.

Licensing and certification is generally necessary. I don’t think your hairdresser or barber needs licensed by the state but your doctor should be. Licensing and certification, though, are a barrier to entry for potential workers/employees. They reduce labor supply. That’s the reason shortening time to certify or reducing some certification requirements generally increases the labor pool. Now a high school teacher may still need 4 years or undergrad in order to have mastery of a subject to the point they can teach it at a high school or even college level (AP classes). But there is no reason we can’t have elementary Ed folks doing less college and entering the work force earlier with more on the job training. It would cause an immediate influx of bodies in classrooms and would make the path to teaching easier for people who are interested. A single mother who is capable of teaching but doesn’t feel that she can give up her job as a server for 4 years of a bachelors degree won’t ever become a teacher, but two years of community college and two years of paid student teaching? Maybe. At least it becomes an option. Lowering barriers to entry when safe/possible increases the supply of labor. Again, pretty basic economic principle. Some states will likely need to increase pay to keep the profession attractive but it can be done even in smaller states and in areas with lower COL

Any removal of higher Ed years also reduces student loan burden, which is the whole point of this thread. Just in case Boba wants to report this post too, and the moderators feel the need to swoop in and censor it for being “off topic.”

 

[dtrack22]

This is the guy that walks into the doctors lounge and switches the TV to Fox News.

Actually I turn on South Park at lunch in the lounge. Thankfully I don’t have any colleagues on our medical staff as sensitive as the individual who reported the meme above as offensive and having it removed. Because I would be pissed if I couldn’t watch South Park over lunch or in between cases.

 

[newfeet]

This is the guy that walks into the doctors lounge and switches the TV to Fox News.

I am the one who switches it to HGTV...

 

[Boba Foot]

Actually I turn on South Park at lunch in the lounge. Thankfully I don’t have any colleagues on our medical staff as sensitive as the individual who reported the meme above as offensive and having it removed. Because I would be pissed if I couldn’t watch South Park over lunch or in between cases.

I mean it was stupid, but not offensive, and I don’t know that it was worth reporting. There’s some sensi people on here. At least you don’t have to sit in the corner with CutsWithFury.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Just a reminder to please stay on topic and to follow the TOS. An informative thread so far.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

This was a good read while waiting for a Lapidus: The Toll of Student Debt in the U.S.

"More than 45 million people collectively owe $1.6 trillion"

 

[wakaflocka88]

This was a good read while waiting for a Lapidus: The Toll of Student Debt in the U.S.

"More than 45 million people collectively owe $1.6 trillion"

I hope you didn’t use Lapiplasty

 

[CutsWithFury]

I mean it was stupid, but not offensive, and I don’t know that it was worth reporting. There’s some sensi people on here. At least you don’t have to sit in the corner with CutsWithFury.

I actually bring value to these threads and have been for years. I’ve had numerous posters thank me in my DMs for my brutal honesty and willingness to answer their questions about searching for jobs and residency/fellowship training.

I am not going anywhere even if SDN moderators favor the ABPM and let Lee Rogers spam our boards.

 

[deleted1138023]

I actually bring value to these threads and have been for years. I’ve had numerous posters thank me in my DMs for my brutal honesty and willingness to answer their questions about searching for jobs and residency/fellowship training.

I am not going anywhere even if SDN moderators favor the ABPM and let Lee Rogers spam our boards.

They still let you post with that ankle monitor on?

 

[CutsWithFury]

They still let you post with that ankle monitor on?

I’m going to be deplatformed. Welcome to free speech on social media in America.

I’m going to get cancelled because the ABPM CAQ is complete trash and the president gets to spread his nonsense unabated on social media.

 

[newfeet]

I’m having a bourbon… my entire federal loans of over 300k was just forgiven because of PSLF. 3 years of residency and 7 years in the country. I have no clue what do with myself now. 🥃

 

[tacoboutit]

Im one year out of residency so far and have 39 qualifying payments towards PSLF. Just need them to verify the other 7 payments. With the recent PSLF changes recently all those months that i didnt make payments still counted towards my PSLF payments which I’m very thankful for. Working for the govt may not make u the most money but getting money yearly towards your student loans AND being able to qualify for PSLF is amazing.

 

[newfeet]

Im one year out of residency so far and have 39 qualifying payments towards PSLF. Just need them to verify the other 7 payments. With the recent PSLF changes recently all those months that i didnt make payments still counted towards my PSLF payments which I’m very thankful for. Working for the govt may not make u the most money but getting money yearly towards your student loans AND being able to qualify for PSLF is amazing.

I’m happy the loans are gone. But to get to that point was rough. The last location I worked at had great pay but caused issues with my wife. I feel like I’m finally settling down better location, kids will start a decent school and no more podiatry loans. I still have some private loans but they are nothing compared to the podiatry loans.

Just keep moving forward and stay at your current job or something similar.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I’m having a bourbon… my entire federal loans of over 300k was just forgiven because of PSLF. 3 years of residency and 7 years in the country. I have no clue what do with myself now. 🥃

That's a great achievement, congrats!

 

[emergentmd]

Give me one instance in which privatizing a sector has lowered prices.

Tuition limits need to be set, and then student loans need to be given interest-free. Access to higher education should not be a for-profit endeavor.

This statement shows ignorance on why tuition is high and how the gov has created the inflation.

#1 Gov essentially gives full low interest loans for anyone going to any degree without any collateral. Name me one private loans or any other loans that does this. This is essentially socialism
#2. Colleges become smart and once one does it becomes a domino affect. Private and public colleges essentially is for profit, what they do with the profit defines their status. Either way, they can and do raise tuition. Increase salary, better facilities, etc. This is the definition of capitalism.
3. Colleges are smart, need to keep feeding the hungry machine, increase tuition and government gladly guarantees inflated costs.

Tuition limits is ridiculous. How the heck are you going to set this. Is Harvard the same as a community college?
Student loans should be interest free? In what world is any loans interest free? If you want to call it free money, then I can atleast get there.

Forgiving 10K does nothing for 90% of the borrowers and doesn't address the problem which is #1.

The only way to fix this is to take the gov out of bad loans but never will happen b/c poor joe from a poor area will not be able to get a good education.

I am not debating if Poor joe should have access similar to Rich Rachel, but education will continue to skyrocket unless the gov gets out.

Imagine if the gov guaranteed all HS students a low interest loan for a new car. Most would be glad to take max and drive off the lot with a Tesla. Do you really think an 18 yr old can make the correct decision.

The start of tuition drastic inflation coincided with gov back loans. Anyone who does not see this does not understand economics.

 

[emergentmd]

not sure why people can’t be happy for those benefiting? Y’all just a bunch of miserable people.

If you had student loans you didn’t have to make a payment for 33ish months with 0 increase in debt/interest, and 10k forgiven. Plus the money you would have paid would have gone to quality of life and investments. Collectively you got a massive benefit.

Not every legislation has to help you or be about you.

Podiatry can’t get together to fix their board issues but y’all expect the country to come together to pass a “perfect” legislation.

Lastly, duh, Biden did something good for the people that voted for him. Like that’s the point. That’s how elections work. It doesn’t have to make sense financial or morally. The same way Trump gave a 750 billion tax break to top 5% of Americans. I bet the rich podiatrist here didn’t complain about that one.

Lest say that your simple approach is correct and it is as simple as helping people out. Why don't we just help everyone making under 250K out by forgiving all student loans, all home loans, all car loans, all consumer debt. Why not just make every middle class debt free so they can go out and enjoy life/buy a house/not worry about money.