Should I Get A Mba

[Downstatedoc]

so i'm a second year med student...i've been considering taking next year off and getting an mba at a top program (for 1 year)...basically, my question is, will i be able to make a ton more money by landing a management position with an mba? will it be worth the time/money investment of getting an mba? or is it not as clear cut.....basically, i see medicine as a great field...but its a ton of work and may lead to modest benefits...im trying to find a way to get to do something i like, but i also want to make a substantial living.....so should i take the next year off?

thanks.

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[paintballdoc]

MBA=ton of money. Enough said.

 

[nekrogg]

Ive also been considering doing the same thing. The question is, I don't have work experience as other top candidates have or even undergraduate courses in business. How difficult is it to get into a top mba program with just 2 years of med school under my belt?

 

[kdburton]

Do you have work experience prior to medical school? If not, top programs (actually most, if not all, programs) won't consider your application. Most MBA programs require 2-3 years of work experience prior to admission because much of the learning encompasses the personal prior work experiences of students in the MBA class. With that said, the easiest route to getting an MBA in your situation is through the University that your med school is associated with. In most cases the application process is streamlined for professional students seeking a dual degree (i.e. you probably wouldn't have to take the GMAT or pay application fees for the MBA program, etc) and your chances of getting turned down are a lot less. Taking a year off to attend another school is also going to prolong your schooling even more considering that combined degree programs usually have the schedules integrated to some extent and in some cases shortened since you are pursuing two degrees (my school offers an MD/MBA in which you essentially finish med school in 3.5 years and the MBA in 1.5 years when taken individually would take 4 and 2 years respectively). On the other hand your current school may not have the "top" business program that you seek, so you have to weigh your options

 

[Bun]

I found that with my MD all programs I applied to found my application very enticing and unique. Take the GMAT, you will do well on it.

I had a high score >95% on the GMAT and applied to 3 top 10 MBA programs.
Each program really really wanted me to come solely because of the M.D.! I got into all three programs and was given a pretty hefty scholarship at two. My guess is that you would have a similar experience.

As for work experience, they counted my medical school as work experience. Just explain that during 3rd and 4th year you are really in a work environment with respect to having to deal with superiors and probably more BS than people in business. Lets be honest, doctors are egomaniacs and not always easy to get along with.

Also, you might want to look into accelerated programs that only take 12 months. This is the route I chose and then both degrees only took 5 years.

 

[Mr Tricks]

I was just curious if anyone can tell me as to what are some of the top MBA school that have these accelerated programs. Thanks.

 

[Twiigg]

Don't some medical schools offer MD/MBA? Why not just apply to one of those programs? Do they require any undergraduate business courses?

If anyone could enlighten me on how MD/MBA works exactly, that would be great!

 

[pballa24]

I was just curious if anyone can tell me as to what are some of the top MBA school that have these accelerated programs. Thanks.

Columbia, Emory, Northwestern/Kellog, and Cornell. I know those for a fact, don't know about any others though.

 

[kdburton]

Columbia, Emory, Northwestern/Kellog, and Cornell. I know those for a fact, don't know about any others though.

SUNY Buffalo does as well. I don't know how good the b-school is tho.

 

[doc luv]

i had a very similar experience as Bun. when i applied, i found that there was a huge interest in my unique background and they were willing to count clinical rotations as some sort of work experience.
i do, however, want to disagree with the idea that mba = tons of money. i think this is a common misconception among medical students. if you google "physician salaries" you'll find the average doctor makes quite a bit of money, especially if you go into a subspecialty. on the other hand, just because you have an md behind your name, doesn't mean you'll be making a whole lot more than other mbas. the potential to make a lot more money exists with an mba, but i definitely don't think that getting an md/mba automatically means you'll be making more than just as a doctor.

 

[Spacific]

So what program did you get into?

And yes MBA does not mean a lot of money. LOL

But yes... it is true.. programs like the fact that you worked after residency or during residency before entering. However, they will consider the rotation yrs and residency yrs as professional yrs of experience.

There are other options beside the IB postings on this forum such as...

Insurance/CEO/CMO
Venture C.
Healthcare Consulting

 

[McKMD]

You will find many perspectives on this question, particularly as it pertains to management consulting, but let me offer one:

If you're a medical student and you want to do management consulting after medical school or residency (particularly at one of the top firms), an MBA may help you figure out what you want out of life, but it doesn't necessarily improve your chances of getting a job.

The top consulting firms do hire straight MDs and for them, it's more about your resume overall and ability to perform during a rigorous interview process than it is about whether you have an MBA. I joined a management consultancy after medical school and we have far more MDs without dual degrees than we do with dual degrees.

I personally believe that combined MBAs at top programs, like HBS and Wharton offer the MD two things - lifelong connections and the ability to get you a job. Well, you can get a job at a top consultancy without an MBA and the connections are only relevant if you see a future that has a strong business element to it.

Management consulting for MDs is a good option if you don't have a business background but may be interested in going down the business road in the future (e.g. VC, PE, IB, corporate, startups, etc).

 

[Spacific]

What Management consulting firm are u at? Mckinsey? Diamond?

In any case... most management consultants I know travel like crazy. Life in a suitbox.

But hey if you get compensated for it... you might not care...

 

[McKMD]

As my name suggests, I work for McKinsey. My perspective is also applicable to BCG (and somewhat less so to Bain).

Travel varies significantly by office and the type of work you do. Some consultants travel 4 days a week and others don't travel at all. I work far fewer hours than your typical resident, but I've spent about 4-5 months of my time working in London, Paris, Berlin and Zurich. Yes, I travel, but I'm definitely not complaining.

The average time someone spends my firm is about 2-3 years. But if you're interested in partnership and the potential to make a seven figure salary, it takes about 6 years (e.g. the same amount of time going from intern year through the end of a medicine fellowship).

Someone mentioned doing residency earlier in the thread. The long-term economic argument is just not there given the options outside of clinical medicine. This is on top of a huge short term earning gap during the resident's 3-10 year training period. So it should come down to how you see your future career playing out: residency is appropriate if you want to reserve the right to practice medicine in the future. But it's wrong to say that residency as "professional experience" would help you settle into a career in finance (VC, PE) or management in a healthcare company. Spending 2-6 years at a top consultancy would do far more for you.

 

[Spacific]

As my name suggests, I work for McKinsey. My perspective is also applicable to BCG (and somewhat less so to Bain).

Travel varies significantly by office and the type of work you do. Some consultants travel 4 days a week and others don't travel at all. I work far fewer hours than your typical resident, but I've spent about 4-5 months of my time working in London, Paris, Berlin and Zurich. Yes, I travel, but I'm definitely not complaining.

The average time someone spends my firm is about 2-3 years. But if you're interested in partnership and the potential to make a seven figure salary, it takes about 6 years (e.g. the same amount of time going from intern year through the end of a medicine fellowship).

Someone mentioned doing residency earlier in the thread. The long-term economic argument is just not there given the options outside of clinical medicine. This is on top of a huge short term earning gap during the resident's 3-10 year training period. So it should come down to how you see your future career playing out: residency is appropriate if you want to reserve the right to practice medicine in the future. But it's wrong to say that residency as "professional experience" would help you settle into a career in finance (VC, PE) or management in a healthcare company. Spending 2-6 years at a top consultancy would do far more for you.

your comment about the 7 figure salary. I have friends at these consulting firms and others at IB firms. They have all told me the same story. Work a few more yrs... and hoping for that big payday... however... they have also told me the chances are VERY VERY slim to even make partner.

In fact, many of my friends are deciding to do their own thing in business. Guess working for the BIG man still sucks.

 

[McKMD]

Guess working for the BIG man still sucks.

This is a silly statement - have you actually worked for the man as a doc? If you're going to argue the economics, please throw some facts.

The associate to partner rate at top consulting firms is about 5%-7%, but this is more driven by choice for MDs not necessity. Of the 16 MDs that I can recall who left the company in the past year, 9 took finance jobs (VC, PE, hedge funds - not IB), 2 went to startups, 4 went corporate (pharma, hospitals) and 1 went back to residency. The guys in finance have the possibility of making way more than partners in consulting but at a higher beta, the corporate guys will settle for a low-ish salary (200-300k) and the possibility of climbing the management ladder, and the guys who went to start-ups will take the highest risk/reward profile.

Few MDs actually want to be a partner in a consulting firm, but even those that left will universally say working for a top consulting firm opened up a ridiculous number of doors. You don't actually go to consulting to become partner - you do it to accelerate your career. That being said, the possibility of a comfortable salary with a relatively low beta awaits MDs who see their future in consulting.

 

[MSwinthrop]

I think what the OP was asking was, "does an MBA tied to an MD pay for itself?"
It costs $40k - opportunity cost of the one or more years used to get it, does it return at least an equal value?

 

[docxxyyzz]

I found that with my MD all programs I applied to found my application very enticing and unique. Take the GMAT, you will do well on it.

I had a high score >95% on the GMAT and applied to 3 top 10 MBA programs.
Each program really really wanted me to come solely because of the M.D.! I got into all three programs and was given a pretty hefty scholarship at two. My guess is that you would have a similar experience.

As for work experience, they counted my medical school as work experience. Just explain that during 3rd and 4th year you are really in a work environment with respect to having to deal with superiors and probably more BS than people in business. Lets be honest, doctors are egomaniacs and not always easy to get along with.

Also, you might want to look into accelerated programs that only take 12 months. This is the route I chose and then both degrees only took 5 years.

HI
I am med school graduate.I plan to do my mba now.I havent completed any residency.Do you think I would be getting the attention you got or anywhere near it.Any input is highly appreciated.

 

[civic4982]

MBA=ton of money. Enough said.

"Big name pedigree MBA = ton of money. Enough said."

Just a slight correction to a valid statement.

Otherwise being that I'm 2 courses away from finishing my MBA I think it's a valid concern to really ask yourself why you want the MBA and what you're going to use the knowledge you learned there to do in your career.

There's so many MBA programs out there that the value of the MBA is being quickly diluted. I would really consider what tools you want to gain from your MBA before dumping money into it.

Good luck.

 

[XerxesMD]

"Big name pedigree MBA = ton of money. Enough said."

Just a slight correction to a valid statement.

Would either UCLA's Anderson or USC's Marshall be considered 'big names' in the MBA arena, or would that be reserved for the ultra-elite Harvard, Wharton, etc.?

 

[kbshah]

I am applying to medical school right now and I don't think I have a shot to get into top 30 medical schools, if I wanted to use my MD to get into the business side of healthcare, would it really matter where I got my MD from? would the fact that I have an MD suffice?
Also, I have offers from major consulting firms right now. Anyone have any input on staying with this consulting firm instead of going to medical school. Work for a while then get my MBA instead? My career goal is to run a major hospital or CEO of an healthcare organization like a Kaiser.
Any input would be appreciated. thanks.

 

[civic4982]

Would either UCLA's Anderson or USC's Marshall be considered 'big names' in the MBA arena, or would that be reserved for the ultra-elite Harvard, Wharton, etc.?

Although they're not the top schools like the ones you mentioned (Wharton, Harvard, McCombs, etc.) USC and UCLA have strong programs and should definitely be considered.

Again this all depends on what you want to do with your MBA. If you want it a s a supplement then by all means get the knowlegdge from wherever you can. If you want to to attract loads of attention then it had better be from a major b-school.

 

[civic4982]

I am applying to medical school right now and I don't think I have a shot to get into top 30 medical schools, if I wanted to use my MD to get into the business side of healthcare, would it really matter where I got my MD from? would the fact that I have an MD suffice?
Also, I have offers from major consulting firms right now. Anyone have any input on staying with this consulting firm instead of going to medical school. Work for a while then get my MBA instead? My career goal is to run a major hospital or CEO of an healthcare organization like a Kaiser.
Any input would be appreciated. thanks.

Hree's my advice. Don't go to medical school.

Don't waste your time going to med school if your career goal is to be the CEO of a hospital. Work on your GMAT, get a top score, and get into a good MBA program. Keep in mind that you'll have to work for a while to get accepted to any of these decent MBA programs.

You can't be the CEO of a hospital while treating patients and so if you don't plan on treating patients as a goal then in my opinion you shouldn't go into medicine.

I should also add that experience trumps a lot of things in the business realm just as it does in medicine. You should talk to some people that do the job you want and take a peek at their resume. I think you'll find that very few CEOs of hospitals are MDs and that is probably for a good reason. Strengths of an MD aren't necessarily administrative as their needs are to care for patients as opposed to meeting the bottom line for the shareholder.

Again, if you know what you want and it doesn't include treating patients then don't go to med school and flush away 7+ years of your life. You can get much closer to your goal much faster by going about another route.

 

[Doublecortin]

Would either UCLA's Anderson or USC's Marshall be considered 'big names' in the MBA arena, or would that be reserved for the ultra-elite Harvard, Wharton, etc.?

no, you gotta go for the top 5 or top 10

 

[Pavo]

What do you want to do?

An MBA is not a necessary prerequisite to success in the business world. I know many finance guys in IB, hedge funds, quant shops, etc., and most do not have a masters program under there belt. What they do have are:

1. An undergraduate degree, which isn't always in a business discipline
2. Brains
3. Contacts
4. Drive

A colleague of mine just interviewed with Kellogg. The interviewer, an alum, majored in premed & anthropology. He worked for Morgan Stanley, founded two companies, and sold them both before going to b-school around 30. He founded another business after b-school which he now runs with his brother and he works as a strategic consultant for companies where he finds them employees. Kind of like a headhunter, but he goes in, analyzes a department/division and finds long term solutions for the group by bringing in new employees.

An MBA is useful if you want a corporate gig, or if you want to switch careers and don't have the contacts or experience. I know a few management consultants and they all have an MBAs. I know some guys who obtained MBAs to get into institutional sales and they are not doing so well money wise. They are doing well, but not THAT well.

In the end, what do you want to do? What will the MBA be used to obtain? What are the ends? But if it's not a top 10 program, preferably a top 5 program, then I wouldn't go personally.

 

[joshto]

I am currently an undergrad and plan to apply to med school next year. I've just recently discovered the MD/MBA possibility, and I'm very intrigued. Is it best to get into medical school first, and then worry about the MBA? Or is it suggested that I apply to a certain school(s) based on my MD/MBA interest? I've learned that you apply to MD/MBA joint programs while you are in medical school, so I'm not certain how that would affect me now. This is quite novel to me, any advice is appreciated.

Just a side question, do all MD/MBA joint programs require you to take the GMAT? Will the MCAT suffice anywhere?

 

[DrJosephKim]

If you plan to transition to the non-clinical world (or the business world of healthcare), then an MBA will be extremely beneficial in helping you network with key individuals (i.e., your classmates, alumni, etc.)

Where you get your MBA may affect the caliber of executives within your MBA-network. Keep in mind that many very successful and powerful executives are alumni from non-IV league schools. However, if you want to build bridges with key people who hold a lot of business power, then go for the top schools.

Finally, I would personally advise that you get your MD first, get some work experience, then pursue an MBA once you tangibly understand the key issues at stake. That's when it will be critical to grow your network and interact with executives and professionals who may be able to get you into a great company.