Seriously thinking about just staying in state

[xnfs93hy]

I have been doing some thinking.

I have been considering many schools over the past two years. Everything from Ivy League to no name institutions.

I have come to realize recently, that if I am seriously going to try and get that 4.0 GPA, and nail the MCAT and actually get into a decent well respected medical school, I should at least try and figure out what school I would be happy at.

I have been doing some research and I honestly think that I am best off going to Rutgers University.

I am getting a great education, my parents know someone who is now a Sports Med doc who went to Rutgers for UG then went to MS in the midwest. He started out at the same CC I am considering going to for a year. So why not?

I can do all my volunteer work, shadowing, etc. around here.

Does this honestly sound like a good plan, will I still have a shot at Medical School if I do this. I know it is getting annoying but I just want to make sure I am not making any mistakes by deciding to do this.

Give me some feedback.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[tennisball80]

I think you have answered you own question. If you are happy with going to Rutgers and have a good plan, you should just go.

I assume you have to pay more dollars if you go to a university out of state.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I think you have answered you own question. If you are happy with going to Rutgers and have a good plan, you should just go.

I assume you have to pay more dollars if you go to a university out of state.

I know I kind of answered my own question.

I really just want feedback/comments.

And yes, for pretty much all the schools I would want to go to I'd ending spending 10k more.

 

[nlax30]

Does this honestly sound like a good plan, will I still have a shot at Medical School if I do this. I know it is getting annoying but I just want to make sure I am not making any mistakes by deciding to do this.

Give me some feedback.

Of course you will. Most important things are that you do well academically and nail the MCAT (along with the ECs and good letters), beyond that don't stress out about the name of your undergrad school, unless it's Billy Bob's Community College.

If you're happier there you're probably more likely to do better. Plus you really can't go wrong saving money, you'll be taking out enough loans for med school, no need to rack up the debt for undergrad.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Triple the vote for Rutgers. It's a good school and you'll save money. 40K over 4 years is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[TheMagicCookie]

As you know already, Jeff...the insitution at which you complete you prereqs at does not have a huge impact on being accepted to med school. As long as you work hard and keep your grades up, you will be fine. Pick the school that is best for YOU.

 

[ToldYouSo]

Go where ever you can get the most financial aid. Ppl make such a BIG deal about where you go to undergrad matters well it rly doesn't, you have to get a good GPA and study and get a good grade on the MCATs, it depends on you, but yeah Rutgers sounds great, my friend from AP chem is going there right now and she loves it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Rutgers is a fine school.

Many many physicians have done their undergraduate work there.

I see no reason not to consider it, especially if it means saving substantial money on tuition and living close to/at home.

 

[gotmilklol]

u live in NJ?
Kool me too

Ya Rutgers is a great school for sure.

 

[Algophiliac]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but if someone is considering moving out of state to settle down one day, when is the best time to do so? And is the MD received after completion of medical school licensed in your then-current state of residence...or where you go to medical school...or?

Rutgers is, from what I hear, a great school. And saving expenses in the process of getting a medical degree is...well, priceless.

 

[ButImLETired]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but if someone is considering moving out of state to settle down one day, when is the best time to do so? And is the MD received after completion of medical school licensed in your then-current state of residence...or where you go to medical school...or?

Rutgers is, from what I hear, a great school. And saving expenses in the process of getting a medical degree is...well, priceless.

Oh crap! You asked me this in a PM and I totally forgot cause I was out of town! Ok, let me be less rude now and try to answer your question...

I know you're planning on moving to CA. CA is a tough nut to crack no matter when you try to crack it, and here's why. You could come here for college. The best schools around here (with the notable exception of Stanford, CalTech, and even USC) are part of the public school system and they don't accept that many out of staters. Also, if you do come to one of the UC's as an out of stater, you'd probably want to be able to gain residency (since that's the purpose of this whole exercise) and be able to pay in-state tuition. This isn't all that easy, and requires quite a bit of uprooting (and you must not be a dependent of your parents, tax-wise...at least I think so). Since CA is now in a budget meltdown, I'm sure they're going to make it even harder for kids to be able to gain residency and in-state privileges just from going to school here.
You could, instead, do what I did, and move here after college. This was probably a relatively easy way to gain residency, since I just had to get a job here, rent here, get a bank account, register to vote, etc etc. Of course it required me to take a couple of years off between college and med school, not to mention (again) uproot my life entirely. Also, this is an EXTREMELY questionable decision if you ultimately want to go to med school. Your best bet, as far as staying in CA for residency and beyond, would be to come to med school here. I don't need to tell you, if you've followed SDN at all, that the med schools here are obnoxiously hard to get into, and very, very good. Therefore, by coming here and applying to med school as a CA resident, you'd essentially be shooting yourself in the foot, cause you'd be competing against the TON of CA applicants, both for in-state spots and even for out of state private school spots (some of the lower-tier privates on the east coast are like, 70% CA applicants). Everyone in this state is pre-med for some reason.
Your last option would be to come here for residency after going to med school out of state, but I'm pretty sure that's also uber-competitive (med students and residents can weigh in on this, not really sure how it works). In general, your best bet as far as staying here for residency would be to go here for med school. Of course, you can hopefully do some away rotations at CA hospitals even if you're out of state, but it's probably not the same in terms of getting a spot here. No idea how state licensing works, but since most of the fellows in my clinic are from out of state, I don't think it's that complicated.

Moral of the story: it's not going to be easy any way you do it. My suggestion would be either to do what I did and pray to God you get into a CA school, or do what I did and not establish residency in the state where you attend med school (not sure how that works, I guess you'd have to keep all your ties to CA) and do tons of away rotations here in order to have a good shot at a residency, or try to get a job here after residency (or for fellowship). I wouldn't come here for college cause it's going to end up costing you a fortune as an out of stater, I think.

Anyway, my opinions could be totally incorrect, so if anyone knows any more about this stuff, please weigh in.

 

[Algophiliac]

Oh crap! You asked me this in a PM and I totally forgot cause I was out of town! Ok, let me be less rude now and try to answer your question...

I know you're planning on moving to CA. CA is a tough nut to crack no matter when you try to crack it, and here's why. You could come here for college. The best schools around here (with the notable exception of Stanford, CalTech, and even USC) are part of the public school system and they don't accept that many out of staters. Also, if you do come to one of the UC's as an out of stater, you'd probably want to be able to gain residency (since that's the purpose of this whole exercise) and be able to pay in-state tuition. This isn't all that easy, and requires quite a bit of uprooting (and you must not be a dependent of your parents, tax-wise...at least I think so). Since CA is now in a budget meltdown, I'm sure they're going to make it even harder for kids to be able to gain residency and in-state privileges just from going to school here.
You could, instead, do what I did, and move here after college. This was probably a relatively easy way to gain residency, since I just had to get a job here, rent here, get a bank account, register to vote, etc etc. Of course it required me to take a couple of years off between college and med school, not to mention (again) uproot my life entirely. Also, this is an EXTREMELY questionable decision if you ultimately want to go to med school. Your best bet, as far as staying in CA for residency and beyond, would be to come to med school here. I don't need to tell you, if you've followed SDN at all, that the med schools here are obnoxiously hard to get into, and very, very good. Therefore, by coming here and applying to med school as a CA resident, you'd essentially be shooting yourself in the foot, cause you'd be competing against the TON of CA applicants, both for in-state spots and even for out of state private school spots (some of the lower-tier privates on the east coast are like, 70% CA applicants). Everyone in this state is pre-med for some reason.
Your last option would be to come here for residency after going to med school out of state, but I'm pretty sure that's also uber-competitive (med students and residents can weigh in on this, not really sure how it works). In general, your best bet as far as staying here for residency would be to go here for med school. Of course, you can hopefully do some away rotations at CA hospitals even if you're out of state, but it's probably not the same in terms of getting a spot here. No idea how state licensing works, but since most of the fellows in my clinic are from out of state, I don't think it's that complicated.

Moral of the story: it's not going to be easy any way you do it. My suggestion would be either to do what I did and pray to God you get into a CA school, or do what I did and not establish residency in the state where you attend med school (not sure how that works, I guess you'd have to keep all your ties to CA) and do tons of away rotations here in order to have a good shot at a residency, or try to get a job here after residency (or for fellowship). I wouldn't come here for college cause it's going to end up costing you a fortune as an out of stater, I think.

Anyway, my opinions could be totally incorrect, so if anyone knows any more about this stuff, please weigh in.

Thank you, LET!

College would cost me a fortune in CA, which is the main reason I am turning down this option. I realized that being in-state does not offer that much more advantage in terms of acceptance into CA medical schools, simply due to the sheer quantity of applicants. Attending medical school in CA may, unfortunately, also cost me a fortune, but as you said is the best means of increasing chances of residency there. Certainly a great source of motivation!

If state licensing really is the simple alternative, however, I would be willing to wait until I can actually settle down with my life.

Thanks and no worries--I know you all are busy!

 

[xnfs93hy]

So you are basically saying do not go to UG in Cali if you are OOS and want to get residency b.c it will cost you a fortune?

And are you also saying that you are better applying to a CA med school as an OOS applicant and then establishing state residency?

Just clarifying.

 

[Winged Scapula]

RE: licensing

You can be licensed in any state you wish as long as you meet their requirements and pay the fees.

You are not required to have gone to medical school, done your residency or even live or practice in the state in which you obtain a medical license. I currently have 3 licenses and practice in only 1.

Some states require a training license, but this is separate from the full and unrestricted medical license, and is only for the purposes of residency.

Thus in terms of working in California, you do not have to have done any training in the state to be eligible for a medical license.

 

[Algophiliac]

RE: licensing

You can be licensed in any state you wish as long as you meet their requirements and pay the fees.

You are not required to have gone to medical school, done your residency or even live or practice in the state in which you obtain a medical license. I currently have 3 licenses and practice in only 1.

Some states require a training license, but this is separate from the full and unrestricted medical license, and is only for the purposes of residency.

Thus in terms of working in California, you do not have to have done any training in the state to be eligible for a medical license.

Thank you so much! I had no idea obtaining state licensure was such a simple process. What sorts of requirements might a state like CA have?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thank you so much! I had no idea obtaining state licensure was such a simple process.

Perhaps I overstated things. Its NOT a simple process. It involves lots of paperwork, background checks, fingerprinting, big sums of money, occasionally a personal appearance, etc. But yes, it can be done for any state.

What sorts of requirements might a state like CA have?

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/

Most importantly for California and many states, is that there are certain foreign schools they do not approve for licensure and the number of attempts for passing the USMLEs.

 

[DLi]

Congratulations Jefgreen on finally making the decision that has torn you. As great as Northeaster was, I think Rutgers would be a great choice for you. I believe I mentioned that there was a study that showed that the Ivy League admits who did not go to an Ivy League school on average made the same salary as those who attended Ivy League.

It's all about what you do in college, not which college you go to. Of course, go to an Ivy League if you want to go to Wall Street or Washington, D.C., and attend MIT if you want to be a crazy theoretical physicist.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Alright, now I am thinking that I should go back to my original plan of attending OSU.

I doubt I will be in at RU now. I just looked at the transfer page. Basically, no matter who you are, they want allllll your high school stuff, and, worst of all, they base their decisions on that.

Whereas OSU, you just need to take 30 credits in one year and then it is basically a yes or a no, and OSU-Columbus accepts 80%. Rutgers:NB accepts half of that.

This really sucks, bad.

RU is 11k a year AND close to home, and I want to be at home.

Ugh.

I cannot spend more than a year in a CC.
---

I have another question.

This is going to be a really stupid question, but here it goes...

What are Gen Eds.?

How can I fill up 30 credits freshman year? All GE's?

I want to save the pre reqs and EVERYTHING for sophomore year in the fall.

 

[Algophiliac]

Perhaps I overstated things. Its NOT a simple process. It involves lots of paperwork, background checks, fingerprinting, big sums of money, occasionally a personal appearance, etc. But yes, it can be done for any state.

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/

Most importantly for California and many states, is that there are certain foreign schools they do not approve for licensure and the number of attempts for passing the USMLEs.

Well, these rules are definitely interesting. What exactly is meant by:

"Passing scores on a written/computerized exam shall be valid for a period of ten (10) years from the month of the examination."

In other words, if 10 years after taking the USMLE, I have not achieved licensure in CA, I have to retake it? How does this work for specialties such as surgery, which might (when taking into account residency, fellowships, etc. at other locations) take ten years or more to complete after Step 1?

Thanks!

 

[xnfs93hy]

You know what I realized after checking out MDapps though, even if I attend OSU, I still have as good as a chance (maybe even better b/c OSU is a big research school) at UMDNJ. Right?

I mean, as long as I maintain my NJ residency, I still have the same exact shot as someone who went to Rutgers, TCNJ, or Princeton (well, maybe not Princeton). But am I right though? B/c that is what it seems...

 

[xnfs93hy]

Well, these rules are definitely interesting. What exactly is meant by:

"Passing scores on a written/computerized exam shall be valid for a period of ten (10) years from the month of the examination."

In other words, if 10 years after taking the USMLE, I have not achieved licensure in CA, I have to retake it? How does this work for specialties such as surgery, which might (when taking into account residency, fellowships, etc. at other locations) take ten years or more to complete after Step 1?

Thanks!

Wow, and I thought I was the only one up at almost 4 in the morning. Probably b/c I woke up at noon yesterday. Wow, in a few hours I can go out and get bagels for breakfast. This night is going fast!

 

[Algophiliac]

Wow, and I thought I was the only one up at almost 4 in the morning. Probably b/c I woke up at noon yesterday. Wow, in a few hours I can go out and get bagels for breakfast. This night is going fast!

I love mornings. And it's 3 AM here. To answer your question, though, I think you have a great shot from either school. Do not disqualify RU from your list of options just because you might not make it, especially if this is the school you would prefer to attend. In terms of residency, you are exactly right, but consider the fact that you might have to pay out of state tuition for college, which might not be worth it in the long run.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Well, these rules are definitely interesting. What exactly is meant by:

"Passing scores on a written/computerized exam shall be valid for a period of ten (10) years from the month of the examination."

In other words, if 10 years after taking the USMLE, I have not achieved licensure in CA, I have to retake it? How does this work for specialties such as surgery, which might (when taking into account residency, fellowships, etc. at other locations) take ten years or more to complete after Step 1?

Thanks!

If you read on from your above quote:

"This period of validity may be extended by the division for good cause and for time spent in a postgraduate training program, including, but not limited to, residency training, fellowship training, remedial or refresher training, or other training that is intended to maintain or improve medical skills.

Upon expiration of the 10-year period plus any extension granted by the division, the applicant shall pass the Special Purpose Examination of the Federation of State Medical Boards or a clinical competency written examination determined by the division to be equivalent.

This subdivision applies to all passing scores achieved in a written examination for a physician's and surgeon's certificate conducted by the division. (Business and Professions Code section 2184(b))"

The purpose of the regulation is to prevent people who have been out of practice for a lengthy period of time from trying to come back to medicine; extensions will be given to those who have been in residency or fellowship. If not, the SPEX can be taken which is relatively easy, or so I understand.

 

[236116]

I have another question.

This is going to be a really stupid question, but here it goes...

What are Gen Eds.?

How can I fill up 30 credits freshman year? All GE's?

I want to save the pre reqs and EVERYTHING for sophomore year in the fall.

OMG.

Any thing that fills your degree's gen-ed requirements are gen eds: maths, intro bio, g chem, physics, intro comp, intro to computers, language, art 101, anthro 1, psych 1, etc...

 

[xnfs93hy]

OMG.

Any thing that fills your degree's gen-ed requirements are gen eds: maths, intro bio, g chem, physics, intro comp, intro to computers, language, art 101, anthro 1, psych 1, etc...

Is it possible to do 30 credits my freshman year at the CC though? How many credits is a class usually? 3? 5?

 

[236116]

Is it possible to do 30 credits my freshman year at the CC though? How many credits is a class usually? 3? 5?

15 credits/term at 3 credits/class = 5 classes.

Depending on your load, could go over well... Might not.

Usual track: take your comp 1, your first math, start a language or a ged ed (ie- psych 1, anthro 1), maybe do Speech, maybe chem.

2nd term: finish english. take a science. keep doing language or gen eds.

Sciences are usually 4 credits when you tack on lab. Maths varies.

 

[xnfs93hy]

15 credits/term at 3 credits/class = 5 classes.

Depending on your load, could go over well... Might not.

Usual track: take your comp 1, your first math, start a language or a ged ed (ie- psych 1, anthro 1), maybe do Speech, maybe chem.

2nd term: finish english. take a science. keep doing language or gen eds.

Sciences are usually 4 credits when you tack on lab. Maths varies.

That is what I'm thinking, hopefully they would transfer to OSU-Columbus, but I guess I will figure all that out.
--
I have another question.

Is it possible to do 3 five credit classes a semester? or do I have to do the 3 credit/five classes deal?

 

[236116]

That is what I'm thinking, hopefully they would transfer to OSU-Columbus, but I guess I will figure all that out.
--
I have another question.

Is it possible to do 3 five credit classes a semester? or do I have to do the 3 credit/five classes deal?

There are very rarely ANY five credit classes. So, no.

https://oh.transfer.org/cas/index.jsp may help you determine if your classes will transfer. If your state doesn't participate, try looking up the course descriptions: if they're virtually identical, they'll most likely go.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I want to try and avoid taking any med school classes at the CC. I'm sure psych 1, starting a language, etc. will be fine.

 

[236116]

I want to try and avoid taking any med school classes at the CC. I'm sure psych 1, starting a language, etc. will be fine.

Then it's going to take you forever, or totally ruin your breaks if you stay on 4 yr track.

 

[xnfs93hy]

There are very rarely ANY five credit classes. So, no.

Really?

I'm not trying to act like a ****** here, I'm just confused and I'm trying to figure everything out.

So there will only likely be a few classes that are five credits. Are there ever any more than that (6 credits+)?

What about four credits?

1+2 credits?

Wouldn't four credit classes be a science with lab?

 

[xnfs93hy]

Then it's going to take you forever, or totally ruin your breaks if you stay on 4 yr track.

So what do you recommend I do then? Just start taking Calc I, Intro Psych, erc. and just continue everything when I get to OSU the next year or whatever?

 

[236116]

Really?

I'm not trying to act like a ****** here, I'm just confused and I'm trying to figure everything out.

So there will only likely be a few classes that are five credits. Are there ever any more than that (6 credits+)?

What about four credits?

1+2 credits?

Wouldn't four credit classes be a science with lab?

Most english, arts, humanities, social sciences, non-lab sciences, some maths: 3 credits.

Some maths, science with lab: 4 credits.

Some schools will break out lect/lab, so you end up with 3/1.

Some PE courses and other kinds of labs are 2 credits, but I've also seen 1.5.

It is very unlikely that you ever find a course that is more than 4 credits, that is also not a technical course or practicum.

 

[236116]

So what do you recommend I do then? Just start taking Calc I, Intro Psych, erc. and just continue everything when I get to OSU the next year or whatever?

Yup.

Go find the degree plan for whatever you want to major in at OSU. Follow it starting from day 1 at your CC.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Yup.

Go find the degree plan for whatever you want to major in at OSU. Follow it starting from day 1 at your CC.

Will do then.

Thanks man .

 

[Maygyver]

So what do you recommend I do then? Just start taking Calc I, Intro Psych, erc. and just continue everything when I get to OSU the next year or whatever?

Are you back into the idea of Ohio State? If so, what major? I can try to help with what you might want to schedule.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Are you back into the idea of Ohio State? If so, what major? I can try to help with what you might want to schedule.

It is still up in the air. I've always considered OSU. I'm leaning towards OSU more now that I found out that I would have to stay at my CC longer than a year if I wanted to go to Rutgers.

I actually checked the website this morning.

The major is Psychology.

However, I think at OSU you can pick between a couple. At RU, it is a social science degree only. At OSU I think you can get a BS in it or something. You have to take many more science courses than you would @ RU.

But yeah, try Psych BS.

I hope I am not taking up much of your time . Better if you look it up for me though.

Thx.

EDIT:

What is the difference between a BA and a BS?

 

[Maygyver]

It is still up in the air. I've always considered OSU. I'm leaning towards OSU more now that I found out that I would have to stay at my CC longer than a year if I wanted to go to Rutgers.

I actually checked the website this morning.

The major is Psychology.

However, I think at OSU you can pick between a couple. At RU, it is a social science degree only. At OSU I think you can get a BS in it or something. You have to take many more science courses than you would @ RU.

But yeah, try Psych BS.

I hope I am not taking up much of your time . Better if you look it up for me though.

Thx.

EDIT:

What is the difference between a BA and a BS?

It's alright, I had 3 exams this week so I am done studying hardcore for a day or so. I actually know a psychology major who loves it. I'm doing a psych minor for fun too. The Psych building is really nice, and has super comfy chairs too.

I believe the main difference between a BS and BA is that with a BS you have to do more calculus than BA. (not sure if you have to do any for a BA). As far as what psychology classes you can take, they have a link: http://www2.psy.ohio-state.edu/undergraduate/html/bsci.htm

This should give you a rough idea of what sort of classes you would take. I know somewhere on the OSU site they have a list of the core requirements for BS/BA degrees, but I'm not completely sure where that is because they have changed it since I got here. Also, if you decide to come to OSU, there is a neat little tool online that you can use to see what classes you still need to take. You can also go to http://buckeyelink2.osu.edu/masterschedule/msched.aspx and punch in psychology and just leave everything else blank and it will tell you what courses are offered. Hopefully this is helpful, I figure it's nice to be able to see what all you would have to take and make sure that it is stuff that interests you.

 

[Algophiliac]

If you read on from your above quote:

"This period of validity may be extended by the division for good cause and for time spent in a postgraduate training program, including, but not limited to, residency training, fellowship training, remedial or refresher training, or other training that is intended to maintain or improve medical skills.

Upon expiration of the 10-year period plus any extension granted by the division, the applicant shall pass the Special Purpose Examination of the Federation of State Medical Boards or a clinical competency written examination determined by the division to be equivalent.

This subdivision applies to all passing scores achieved in a written examination for a physician's and surgeon's certificate conducted by the division. (Business and Professions Code section 2184(b))"

The purpose of the regulation is to prevent people who have been out of practice for a lengthy period of time from trying to come back to medicine; extensions will be given to those who have been in residency or fellowship. If not, the SPEX can be taken which is relatively easy, or so I understand.

Thanks! This seems like a fairly reasonable regulation.

 

[malfee]

I'm EXCITED to go to Rutgers. ><

I'm out-of-state though, so the tuition isn't quite as nice for me, but with my current financial status, I'll be taking $30k in loans after my four years are up -- possibly less if my circumstances change during my undergraduate career.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I would look into becoming a NJ resident if I were you. I think it is pretty easy to obtain residency here.

 

[malfee]

I would look into becoming a NJ resident if I were you. I think it is pretty easy to obtain residency here.

My family might be moving into NJ within the next few years, so there's a good chance that I'll have NJ residency sometime during my stint at RU. Plus, I might look into becoming an RA, which would grant me free room and board (aka, $10k). Either way, I'm told that $30k in loans isn't much.

 

[xnfs93hy]

My family might be moving into NJ within the next few years, so there's a good chance that I'll have NJ residency sometime during my stint at RU. Plus, I might look into becoming an RA, which would grant me free room and board (aka, $10k). Either way, I'm told that $30k in loans isn't much.

That is cool. Yeah, 30 grand in loans isn't much if you can pay it off alright.