Scrolling Through Reddit Salaries And...

[j4pac]

I like the teaching part more than patient care. So I don’t mind making less of it allows me to do what I love. If I went back to private practice I would try to smash for 10 years then retire. I could see doing what I am now for a while.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[RangerBob]

Academic VA is the way to go for QOL/benefits. VA has better benefits than most if not all academic institutions. The SCI docs have maybe 10 or so max patients/day to look after, and have residents taking first call/doing orders/notes/etc. and they have most weekends off and tons of vacation. They do have some more admin tasks (and should be teaching!), but they’re clearly working a very leisurely schedule.

All that and they’re making $200-250k, maybe more these days. Sure, you can make double that working private practice and seeing double the patients, (and having to take more call, not having a resident, etc.) but you’re working more than twice as hard and your benefits are poorer.

For the amount of work you actually do, I really don’t think you can beat the VA for income/benefits. The fact your patients are generally more appreciative of your services is a nice bonus too.

 

[Iamnew2]

Y’all had some bad mentors or are a bit salty. I think the best advice would be to find a good mentor wherever they work to get good career advice. If it’s just “do what I do” then that’s not good advice.

As 2 of us have pointed out you can make good money in academics. Just like in employment, it helps if you work for a good institution. But no one is making 99%. You also can work up the ladder for admin work that pays very well. But again the majority of academics like their lifestyle and don’t want to make more money.

Going up the ladder is not easy. Every move up the ladder it gets a little bit harder. From going from attending to medical director, the options are cut significantly. From med director to CMO, even less options. So it's a matter of chance and flexilibility in part.
I have also noticed that not infrequently CMO are not paid as well as clinical physicians. Not sure why that is

 

[PMR2008]

Not sure where you got that info from. Small hospital obviously can only pay the CMO so much.
RUSH CMO makes Rush University Medical Center — Non Profit Data

Chief Medical Officer Salary | Salary.com

The 2024 average Chief Medical Officer salary in the US is $460,905. How much does a Chief Medical Officer make near you? Get a free salary report today.

www.salary.com

“ The average Chief Medical Officer salary in the United States is $449,712 as of May 25, 2023, but the range typically falls between $393,796and $523,213”

 

[TXPMR]

Location, job you love or money. Pick 2. Location and money is subjective. 300k goes a long way in many parts of the county. Most docs still want to live in areas where they can enjoy their money and send kids to good schools which tends to be around the top 25 big cities.
Also it is obvious but has to be said. After a certain amount, making more money usually has a diminishing rate of return.

I actually don't think this is that obvious, particularly for new grads/junior attendings. Maximizing your take home pay and financially supporting your family is very important, no doubt. But I tell all my mentees to always think about what you are exchanging for "more money." If it's time, then more money at a certain point is not worth it. As you get older and kids grow up, time becomes WAY more valuable than money. Money is only as valuable as what it allows you to do with your time. If you spend all your time making money, then you defeat the purpose of actually having more money. The holy grail in medical compensation is to decouple labor from pay (which is essentially what clinical medicine is). This can come in the form of admin work, medical directorship, partnership/equity in a practice/surgery center, and/or medico-legal work (this is work no doubt, but the amount of compensation relative to the work put in often far outstrips the pay/effort in strictly clinical medicine).

This is also meant to encourage those who want to go into academia, to go into academia. If you love to teach and/or do research and can deal with the politics of academia, by all means do not let the salary difference with private practice discourage you. If you manage your money correctly, at the end of the day you will pay off your loans, live in a nice house, drive a nice/reliable car, go on nice vacations, and send your kids to good schools, etc. The most important thing is to avoid institutions that want you to work like private practice but pay you like academia. Not a good situation. But if you like academia and find an institution that affords you a good work/life balance, by all means go for it.

 

[sloh]

Trade money and time at the best exchange rates possible for more time and money.

Life motto

 

[Momentum70]

While I am not in academia, I had a great attending in residency that did a mix and made good money. After rounding with him on inpatient on wednesdays we would call him with any issues as he would be off site as he did his teams at SNFs. He did SNF rehab on the side which is definitely possible with residents to assist you.

 

[lejeunesage]

Y’all had some bad mentors or are a bit salty. I think the best advice would be to find a good mentor wherever they work to get good career advice. If it’s just “do what I do” then that’s not good advice.

As 2 of us have pointed out you can make good money in academics. Just like in employment, it helps if you work for a good institution. But no one is making 99%. You also can work up the ladder for admin work that pays very well. But again the majority of academics like their lifestyle and don’t want to make more money.

Salty? No.
I've seen a lot of academic jobs and they want to pay like it's still 2003. It's not that it's impossible to make money or even good money; it's just that if making above a certain threshold is your priority, academia is not your best bet to get there.

Would you really dispute this?

Bad mentors?
Not at all. They just weren't acquainted with the realities of the marketplace. They weren't idiots or bad people or bad physicians but their knowledge of the marketplace was understandably dated.

 

[DMBandFan86]

Nope, you are salty. It’s fine though, really.

I never said academics was the place to make the most money. The argument was you can’t make decent money in academics, which isn’t true.

And yeah that’s a bad mentor. You shouldn’t give career advice to anyone if you’re not up to date and can’t educate on the opportunities available.

BTW, what is the physician reimbursement difference today from 2003? Not very great. Volume is the main way for a generalist to make more money. Again, most academics are okay not seeing very many people.

 

[sloh]

You shouldn’t give career advice to anyone if you’re not up to date and can’t educate on the opportunities available.

I think the more common issue is academics don't know what they don't know outside the walls of academia. I'm sure they have good intentions but unwittingly don't give very good career advice unless a resident wants to go into academia, which is very few residents. It's also hard for residents to learn how to be efficient and see more patients from academics because they generally practice much slower and less efficiently.

BTW, what is the physician reimbursement difference today from 2003? Not very great. Volume is the main way for a generalist to make more money. Again, most academics are okay not seeing very many people.

A lot of residents actually don't know this until they finish residency and become attendings. Volume as the main driver to make more money was not really highlighted when I was in residency. And these days when I bring this up to other residents through DM's it comes as news to them. In fact, PM&R residencies seem to be incorporating more and more ultrasound in their curriculum. Ultrasound procedures generally take longer and don't reimburse that well per unit of time.

 

[DMBandFan86]

I think there is also a lack of interest from residents and students to learn the business side of medicine. Have you tried teaching billing, coding and volume to current residents and students? In my experience, it doesn't stick well. They brush it off. High volumes don’t seem possible. I feel like most just want to figure it out when it affects them after they start their first job.

I also get a lot of 'I'll be making more money than my patients' and 'money isn't the top priority.' Which I think has something to do with the type of students that medical schools take and train. But then there is a change post-residency when people become comfortable with their job and patient load and want to start making more money. Probably also factors into why so many change jobs in the first 2 years post training.

You also have to cater to residents. Most don’t want to see 16+ primary inpatients in a day and then do some clinic or SNF consults in the afternoon. Many would complain so fast and claim they were just being used to see more patients. They would claim they aren’t learning anything. If the ACGME residency survey goes bad the whole program goes under. When I was a resident, people would complain about seeing 8 patients with 1-2 admits in a day. In my opinion, Residency is a time to get comfortable managing various types of patients; the speed and volume should come with time (some are ready in residency, but most are not).

 

[PMR2008]

I have given multiple talks to residents around the country and at the annual assembly and this is not what I am seeing. It is not about teaching residents how to bill and code. It is showing them different employment structures, marketing and branding. Many are interested in side hustles but don’t know where to start. Vast majority don’t even know about SNF, med legal, industry, 1099 structures for acute rehab etc
It was not the volume of patients I see residents complain about in residency, it is the lack of efficiency.
Look at Ortho residency. They almost always come out ready to hit the ground running.

I think there is also a lack of interest from residents and students to learn the business side of medicine. Have you tried teaching billing, coding and volume to current residents and students? In my experience, it doesn't stick well. They brush it off. High volumes don’t seem possible. I feel like most just want to figure it out when it affects them after they start their first job.

I also get a lot of 'I'll be making more money than my patients' and 'money isn't the top priority.' Which I think has something to do with the type of students that medical schools take and train. But then there is a change post-residency when people become comfortable with their job and patient load and want to start making more money. Probably also factors into why so many change jobs in the first 2 years post training.

You also have to cater to residents. Most don’t want to see 16+ primary inpatients in a day and then do some clinic or SNF consults in the afternoon. Many would complain so fast and claim they were just being used to see more patients. They would claim they aren’t learning anything. If the ACGME residency survey goes bad the whole program goes under. When I was a resident, people would complain about seeing 8 patients with 1-2 admits in a day. In my opinion, Residency is a time to get comfortable managing various types of patients; the speed and volume should come with time (some are ready in residency, but most are not).

 

[drg123]

I have given multiple talks to residents around the country and at the annual assembly and this is not what I am seeing. It is not about teaching residents how to bill and code. It is showing them different employment structures, marketing and branding. Many are interested in side hustles but don’t know where to start. Vast majority don’t even know about SNF, med legal, industry, 1099 structures for acute rehab etc
It was not the volume of patients I see residents complain about in residency, it is the lack of efficiency.
Look at Ortho residency. They almost always come out ready to hit the ground running.

Recent resident here. There is absolutely interest in business of medicine, side hustles. We are very aware of the deficiencies of our perspectives only seeing academic medicine. It's telling though that we have dedicated didactics for all kinds of low yield things but it took one of our residents to give a lecture on basic things like RVUs, CPT codes, comp structures, in order for our residents to learn these concepts. The demand is there.

 

[PMR2008]

I had a call with a residency program director last week and I am giving a talk soon. Topics of interest "Technology in the Rehab space" "AI and Rehab" "Marketing for new attendings" "How to start a med legal practice". Demand is very much there but residents are now getting a lot of good info from Youtube. Unfortunately the youtube advice is general and might not apply to Physiatry.
Maybe I should start a channel. Always wanted a play button award lol

 

[Iamnew2]

I had a call with a residency program director last week and I am giving a talk soon. Topics of interest "Technology in the Rehab space" "AI and Rehab" "Marketing for new attendings" "How to start a med legal practice". Demand is very much there but residents are now getting a lot of good info from Youtube. Unfortunately the youtube advice is general and might not apply to Physiatry.
Maybe I should start a channel. Always wanted a play button award lol

Which life care planning course did you suggest before? Even though I've started doing life care planning and getting training on the job, I want to get certified. Did you do a specific course? Seems to be a number of them online but dont know which one is good. Any suggestions? Thanks!

 

[Journey man]

Which life care planning course did you suggest before? Even though I've started doing life care planning and getting training on the job, I want to get certified. Did you do a specific course? Seems to be a number of them online but dont know which one is good. Any suggestions? Thanks!

There's a number of them out there. I recently completed the course with Aaaceus, and found it to be helpful and convenient.

Online Continuing Education for CCM, CRC, CDMS, NAADAC & More - AAACEUs

Find the courses you need for top-notch online continuing education for case managers, rehab counselors, disability specialist, addicition counselors, and more.

www.aaaceus.com

 

[PMR2008]

Which life care planning course did you suggest before? Even though I've started doing life care planning and getting training on the job, I want to get certified. Did you do a specific course? Seems to be a number of them online but dont know which one is good. Any suggestions? Thanks!

I did this a while back. Life Care Planning - FIG Education

 

[cowboydoc]

I did this a while back. Life Care Planning - FIG Education

Please tell me you are charging multiples of this per hour rate. Are you getting these independently or working for a company?

 

[PMR2008]

Company. I don't have time to look for cases.

 

[j4pac]

I had a call with a residency program director last week and I am giving a talk soon. Topics of interest "Technology in the Rehab space" "AI and Rehab" "Marketing for new attendings" "How to start a med legal practice". Demand is very much there but residents are now getting a lot of good info from Youtube. Unfortunately the youtube advice is general and might not apply to Physiatry.
Maybe I should start a channel. Always wanted a play button award lol

Have you started that YouTube channel yet? Lol

 

[PMR2008]

haha my son's dream is for me to get a youtube play button. I started 2 new companies so my time has been accounted for lol.

 

[Iamnew2]

haha my son's dream is for me to get a youtube play button. I started 2 new companies so my time has been accounted for lol.

Curious, what type of new companies?