Rewarding Reinvention

[Dr_OneDay]

Some people have been saying that there are some allopathic med schools that reward re-invention.

I couldn't find much information about them. Does anyone have any information about those schools?

I'm trying to recover from an abysmal GPA in college.

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[68PGunner]

That's a possibility if you meet their cutoffs. They are still very stats oriented just like all medical schools. To get interest from mds, you need last 60 sh of 3.7 or higher for both cgpa and sgpa with a mcat of at least 75% percentile. That still will only get you an II. You still need to rock that II through your personal stories which can be helped substantially with strong ECs.

 

[GreenDuck12]

I think it's important to keep in mind that the reason med schools care about stats is essentially due to rankings. The higher a schools stats (sGPA, cGPA, MCAT) the higher their rankings are (also the number of applicants vs number of offers). Schools will make offers to students who fall outside of their target range because they feel the individual has something to add (personal story, hardships, diversity (ethnic, economic, geographic, etc)). For each one of these individuals, there are a hundred others who may share the stats but not the other X factors.

If your goal is to be a doctor, my question to you is does it matter if you go to an allopathic or osteopathic medical school? Both routes can lead to the same specialties (though you may need to have a stand out performance in med school and on step tests to get there). If you have to recover from an abysmal GPA (and bear in mind, I know nothing about your individual case) I would explore osteopathic grade replacement as a strategy. If your GPA is lowered by a couple F/D/C- grades, retaking those using the osteopathic grade replacement, your GPA could increase significantly. For allopathic, it is going to take many, many, many more classes and credits to raise gpa. For example: If you start with 120 credits with cumulative gpa of 3.0 and take an additional 120 credits with a 4.0 gpa, your cumulative GPA would only be a 3.5. If you took an additional 120 credits with a 4.0 gpa, you would still only be at a 3.67.

Another option would be to take a look at SMPs which are like auditions to medical schools by putting you through the first year curriculum. If you do well, you can show that you can handle the curriculum and may be able to enroll in some allopathic schools and many osteopathic schools.

Some people have been saying that there are some allopathic med schools that reward re-invention.

I couldn't find much information about them. Does anyone have any information about those schools?

I'm trying to recover from an abysmal GPA in college.

 

[Dr_OneDay]

I'm thinking about osteopathic, but I still want to keep the MD dream alive. I'm stubborn as a mule, and in my family, we really don't give up even when we should.

My dad failed the USMLE twice, but on his third attempt scored high enough to enter surgery. One of my uncles failed MRCOG (not sure if that's the right name, British medical exam), but now he's a well known orthopedic in UK (passed eventually). My aunt had issues getting into med school, but now she's one of the best gynecologists in our home country.

I leaned from these people that it takes years, effort, and luck, but achieving your goals can be done.

 

[GreenDuck12]

What stats are you working with?

I'm thinking about osteopathic, but I still want to keep the MD dream alive. I'm stubborn as a mule, and in my family, we really don't give up even when we should.

My dad failed the USMLE twice, but on his third attempt scored high enough to enter surgery. One of my uncles failed MRCOG (not sure if that's the right name, British medical exam), but now he's a well known orthopedic in UK (passed eventually). My aunt had issues getting into med school, but now she's one of the best gynecologists in our home country.

I leaned from these people that it takes years, effort, and luck, but achieving your goals can be done.

 

[Dr_OneDay]

What stats are you working with?

cGPA: 3.04
sGPA: 2.73
MCAT: 506 (71 percentile)

I'm retaking MCAT in Jan, aiming for 515+ (though I would be happy with 510-512, too).

GPA dropped 0.25 points last year because of multiple C grades in upper level bio classes b/c of family emergency and financial issues.

 

[NonTrad16]

I'm thinking about osteopathic, but I still want to keep the MD dream alive. I'm stubborn as a mule, and in my family, we really don't give up even when we should.

My dad failed the USMLE twice, but on his third attempt scored high enough to enter surgery. One of my uncles failed MRCOG (not sure if that's the right name, British medical exam), but now he's a well known orthopedic in UK (passed eventually). My aunt had issues getting into med school, but now she's one of the best gynecologists in our home country.

I leaned from these people that it takes years, effort, and luck, but achieving your goals can be done.

I think another thing to take from their success is that, at the end of the day and despite initial hiccups, they are (presumably!) good physicians. If what you want is to become a good physician, you don't need to be a MD. That said, if you want to practice internationally there are some differences in recognition between the degrees, but...

With a sGPA below 3, and a cGPA near 3, you would need a significant investment of time and money to make MD possible (excluding extreme cases of fortune). Significant. You can excel at becoming a better premed (through extensive postbac work followed by SMP) to strive for the MD, but DO is much more realistic. It will still require time, effort, and money to get your GPA where it needs to be to get an acceptance in the DO world.

Just for perspective, I have a 3.5/513 and based on old stats, roughly 60-70% of people with my stats landed an acceptance at an MD school. There is a lot that can possibly benefit an applicant (your story/inspirations/experiences outside of academics), but at the end of the day there are many very competitive people vying for these spots. Ive applied both MD and DO (many people do), because those odds scare me enough to make a broader net.

Also, noting your other thread, you really cannot allow additional low grades. Your problem at the moment is the GPA, and regardless of activities and other burdens, you need As to make this happen. Do what you must to get them. If you're working, work less. If you need to work, take fewer courses. If you need both, accept that you probably aren't going out much from here on out.

 

[GreenDuck12]

It seems as though you are equating allopathic schools with being a better physician. This is not the case and there have been numerous studies showing that allopathic and osteopathic produce talented (and also not talented) physicians. If osteopathic physicians were worse than their counterparts, states would not allow them practice medicine. The distinction between allopathic and osteopathic lies is 1. philosophy and 2. your prior work. With allopathic every grade you receive is counted equally. With osteopathic, if you struggled (as many do) before finding your calling but are willing to put in the time and effort, will more heavily weigh your recent coursework (hence grade replacement). With the academic history that you have, you need an adcom to evaluate the student you have become (recently) not the student you were throughout undergrad.

It's time for you to 1. do your research as Dr. Midlife suggested and 2. be realistic. Your challenge is not a new one, search the forums, there have been many before you and will be many after you who believe they can convince an adcom to take a risk on them despite the prevalence of more qualified applicants. It rarely happens. Medical school, osteopathic and allopathic, is competitive. Respect the competition.

cGPA: 3.04
sGPA: 2.73
MCAT: 506 (71 percentile)

I'm retaking MCAT in Jan, aiming for 515+ (though I would be happy with 510-512, too).

GPA dropped 0.25 points last year because of multiple C grades in upper level bio classes b/c of family emergency and financial issues.

 

[Goro]

I make these claims based upon the posts and PMs from successful SDNers. Schools that reward reinvention (which means having a 3.6+ GPA in a post-bac or SMP) AND acing MCAT (> 33 on the old scale) include U Miami, your state schools, BU, Tulane, Rosy Franklin, Duke, UCSF (yes, UCSF), Columbia, Duke (if combined with good research activity) Albany, Drexel, NYMC, Case, and Tufts.

Some people have been saying that there are some allopathic med schools that reward re-invention.

I couldn't find much information about them. Does anyone have any information about those schools?

I'm trying to recover from an abysmal GPA in college.

 

[Dr_OneDay]

I make these claims based upon the posts and PMs from successful SDNers. Schools that reward reinvention (which means having a 3.6+ GPA in a post-bac or SMP) AND acing MCAT (> 33 on the old scale) include U Miami, your state schools, BU, Tulane, Rosy Franklin, Duke, UCSF (yes, UCSF), Columbia, Duke (if combined with good research activity) Albany, Drexel, NYMC, Case, and Tufts.

Thanks for the list. I would have never thought that Duke or Columbia would be on this list.

 

[Goro]

Having 100 of hrs of clinical experience (professional or volunteer ) also helps a lot!!

Thanks for the list. I would have never thought that Duke or Columbia would be on this list.

 

[Ad2b]

I'm a non-trad. My 25 year old GPA <<<<<<<<<< yours. I listened to naysayers, spent 25 years doing something I was good at but did not love. Now carry very high post-bacc GPA (coincidentally ALL premed pre-reqs) and with a great MCAT, I hope to make the naysayers sing N-Sync songs ... or better yet, some really groovy Air Supply!!

Anyway, "reinvention" searches won't really help - look to the non-trads that have matriculated, or are accepted. I know of 1 that just turned 55, she's allopathic; another is 54 and is MS-3 allo; a few are DO and 1 that I know of, graduated DO at 58. Finished her PGY3 at 61.

ALL of us (I have not matriculated nor been accepted), have "stories" ...

Last, reinvention - I think - means out of school for some period of time; thinking in terms of 5 year segments. If this is your path, do what you must and don't be me

 

[premed3556]

I make these claims based upon the posts and PMs from successful SDNers. Schools that reward reinvention (which means having a 3.6+ GPA in a post-bac or SMP) AND acing MCAT (> 33 on the old scale) include U Miami, your state schools, BU, Tulane, Rosy Franklin, Duke, UCSF (yes, UCSF), Columbia, Duke (if combined with good research activity) Albany, Drexel, NYMC, Case, and Tufts.

this is a late response, but for 3.6+ GPA in a postbacc: is that for 40 semester hours, or are 40 quarter units acceptable as well?

 

[Goro]

this is a late response, but for 3.6+ GPA in a postbacc: is that for 40 semester hours, or are 40 quarter units acceptable as well?

I don't speak quarter-ese, so I always give units in semester hrs

 

[premed3556]

I don't speak quarter-ese, so I always give units in semester hrs

understood. Thank you!!

 

[chilly_md]

Please don't bump 8 year old threads. Closing.