Returning to medicine several years after leaving residency

[Iamnew2]

Then Raryn’s post gives you a start.

Yes it did, it was quite helpful. I enjoy this forum - helps me get through my note coma days

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

This argument is heavily flawed by the idea that one HAS to choose between GP and APP. In reality, we should be focusing on getting more trained FM deployed via the usual methods: make the specialty more appealing with incentives both monetary and otherwise.

And as soon as you say it isn’t a path everyone aspires to, you bring up the other issue with this argument: if you aren’t excited to have one of your own loved ones seen by a GP rather than a board-certified FM, then we shouldn’t be advocating for it at all. The comparison of GP against independent APP is flawed because the answer isn’t “on or the other.” We should be advocating for NEITHER. The dumbing down of American Medicine isn’t about being “anti-guild protection.”

The loved one thing is goofy. There are plenty of board certified whatever specialty physicians who I wouldn’t want my loved ones to see (including people in my own speciality). Board certification ensures a minimum level of training, that not you’re a particularly good doctor. Not sure that should be the line. But on another point....

So would you pick the intern trained GP or the fully trained, board eligible/certified primary care physician? That’s the choice…unless you are equating the GP as the top level of the midlevels.

On a practical level, as sushi already pointed out, there's so many PCP practices that already have NPs working there, you're more likely to see the NP than a physician in many PCP offices right now. I've had quite a few patients already complain about that when I ask them who their PCP is "well I USED to see DR X but now we usually see NP XX". You have to actively seek out practices without NPs at this point to avoid this. So yes, on a practical level, this choice of NP vs non-NP happens every day. The choice is not just GP vs board eligible PCP/specalist/whatever.

NPs basically ran the inpatient heme onc service at my last hospital. They're everywhere inpatient and you ACTUALLY have no choice inpatient. If you ask for a pulmonologist consult...you probably end up getting the pulm NP. The ortho residents were actually getting pissed there was so much NP involvement they were missing out on actual learning opportunities. And yeah technically a lot of them are "supervised" by physicians in the same way a 3rd year resident is "supervised" by attendings (as in NPs running the overnight MICU with an attending just available by phone or come in if needed). And yet we have no route for someone with just an intern year to get those kinds of jobs that easily pay in the mid 100Ks at least either.

 

[rokshana]

The loved one thing is goofy. There are plenty of board certified whatever specialty physicians who I wouldn’t want my loved ones to see (including people in my own speciality). Board certification ensures a minimum level of training, that not you’re a particularly good doctor. Not sure that should be the line. But on another point....



On a practical level, as sushi already pointed out, there's so many PCP practices that already have NPs working there, you're more likely to see the NP than a physician in many PCP offices right now. I've had quite a few patients already complain about that when I ask them who their PCP is "well I USED to see DR X but now we usually see NP XX". You have to actively seek out practices without NPs at this point to avoid this. So yes, on a practical level, this choice of NP vs non-NP happens every day. The choice is not just GP vs board eligible PCP/specalist/whatever.

NPs basically ran the inpatient heme onc service at my last hospital. They're everywhere inpatient and you ACTUALLY have no choice inpatient. If you ask for a pulmonologist consult...you probably end up getting the pulm NP. The ortho residents were actually getting pissed there was so much NP involvement they were missing out on actual learning opportunities. And yeah technically a lot of them are "supervised" by physicians in the same way a 3rd year resident is "supervised" by attendings (as in NPs running the overnight MICU with an attending just available by phone or come in if needed). And yet we have no route for someone with just an intern year to get those kinds of jobs that easily pay in the mid 100Ks at least either.

Nonetheless , that was not then question.

it’s kinda like the “are you vaccinated?” question.. if you don’t answer it… the likelihood is that the answer is “no”…

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Nonetheless , that was not then question.

it’s kinda like the “are you vaccinated?” question.. if you don’t answer it… the likelihood is that the answer is “no”…

No I wouldn’t want them to see a GP over a doc that’s completed an FM residency in general. It’s a false dichotomy though because that’s not actually the choice in real life in many instances as outlined above. Choice is often physician vs NP. It’s like asking if I’d want to see a resident vs an attending instead of a resident vs an NP.

Comparing the response to that question to an antivaxxer is frankly insulting.

 

[rokshana]

No I wouldn’t want them to see a GP over a doc that’s completed an FM residency in general. It’s a false dichotomy though because that’s not actually the choice in real life in many instances as outlined above. Choice is often physician vs NP. It’s like asking if I’d want to see a resident vs an attending instead of a resident vs an NP.

Comparing the response to that question to an antivaxxer is frankly insulting.

Yet it’s that comparison that got you to answer…

and we consciously can make a choice…
My mother’s pcp…BC FM left her practice to go back to academia. When reassigning her to another person, it was going to be an NP… told my mother to ask to be reassigned to a doctor… the scheduler said to her “ they are all doctors to us”… no they are not and my mother will be seeing an actual physician… at another practice…a BC FM.

 

[Crayola227]

So we all seem to agree that midlevels as PCPs suck. And that board certified docs who have completed a full residency are best.

So, would one solution be to replace midlevels by having docs like the OP have an easier time getting back into a residency, completing it, and make the midlevel as PCP obsolete?

Sounds like a great solution to the "physician shortage"....

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So we all seem to agree that midlevels as PCPs suck. And that board certified docs who have completed a full residency are best.

So, would one solution be to replace midlevels by having docs like the OP have an easier time getting back into a residency, completing it, and make the midlevel as PCP obsolete?

Sounds like a great solution to the "physician shortage"....

I'd be surprised if anyone here was against the OP being able to go back to residency.

It would not however fix any kind of shortage or maldistribution issue. Pretty much every residency spot in this country fills up every single year, so we're producing as many doctors as the current system allows us to.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Yet it’s that comparison that got you to answer…

and we consciously can make a choice…
My mother’s pcp…BC FM left her practice to go back to academia. When reassigning her to another person, it was going to be an NP… told my mother to ask to be reassigned to a doctor… the scheduler said to her “ they are all doctors to us”… no they are not and my mother will be seeing an actual physician… at another practice…a BC FM.

Wow how nice that your mom had a doctor as a relative and had the assertiveness and self advocacy to actually ask and request that she see a physician. I’m sure all our patients have physician relatives they can turn to to help guide them through this process. And yet they still gave her resistance.

What a ridiculous comparison.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Wow how nice that your mom had a doctor as a relative and had the assertiveness and self advocacy to actually ask and request that she see a physician. I’m sure all our patients have physician relatives they can turn to to help guide them through this process. And yet they still gave her resistance.

What a ridiculous comparison.

Way to infantilize our patients. The only way they have the wherewithal to make sure they have a physician PCP is if they have physician relatives.

Back when I was doing DPC I fairly decent percentage of my new patients come to me because I had no midlevels in the office so they knew it would be me every time they came in for an appointment. They same couldn't be said of most other PCP offices in the area.

In my current job, before we stopped intra-office transfers I'd get several patients per month transfer from the NPs to me.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Way to infantilize our patients. The only way they have the wherewithal to make sure they have a physician PCP is if they have physician relatives.

Back when I was doing DPC I fairly decent percentage of my new patients come to me because I had no midlevels in the office so they knew it would be me every time they came in for an appointment. They same couldn't be said of most other PCP offices in the area.

In my current job, before we stopped intra-office transfers I'd get several patients per month transfer from the NPs to me.

interesting interpretation of that statement. You're making my point for me. Most offices are basically forcing people to see midlevels. As the post I responded too acknowledged as well. There's no infantilizing about it and that's an incorrect way to use that term. That's like saying you're "infantilizing" someone by acknowledging that a patient with a physician relative is going to have a much easier time navigating an inpatient admission with that relative holding their hand and interpreting information for them compared to someone who doesn't have that advantage. Notice how the poster had to TELL his mother to switch from an NP to a physician.

Yeah in my job too I get people who transfer over from psych NPs to me because they suck. So what. It's not the majority of patients. You'd get "several patients per month". The day when half the patients who can't tell the difference between a DNP and physician and are calling their THERAPISTS (LPCs/MSWs) in our office "Dr" whatever suddenly know the subtleties between NP, PA and MD educational structure is the day I'll say this isn't a problem.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

interesting interpretation of that statement. You're making my point for me. Most offices are basically forcing people to see midlevels. As the post I responded too acknowledged as well. There's no infantilizing about it and that's an incorrect way to use that term. That's like saying you're "infantilizing" someone by acknowledging that a patient with a physician relative is going to have a much easier time navigating an inpatient admission with that relative holding their hand and interpreting information for them compared to someone who doesn't have that advantage. Notice how the poster had to TELL his mother to switch from an NP to a physician.

Yeah in my job too I get people who transfer over from psych NPs to me because they suck. So what. It's not the majority of patients. You'd get "several patients per month". The day when half the patients who can't tell the difference between a DNP and physician and are calling their THERAPISTS (LPCs/MSWs) in our office "Dr" whatever suddenly know the subtleties between NP, PA and MD educational structure is the day I'll say this isn't a problem.

Who said its not a problem?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Who said its not a problem?

"The only way they have the wherewithal to make sure they have a physician PCP is if they have physician relatives."

Who said I said the only way patients can figure out the difference between an NP and physician is if they have physician relatives? See, I can argue around the point too.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

"The only way they have the wherewithal to make sure they have a physician PCP is if they have physician relatives."

Who said I said the only way patients can figure out the difference between an NP and physician is if they have physician relatives? See, I can argue around the point too.

Wow how nice that your mom had a doctor as a relative and had the assertiveness and self advocacy to actually ask and request that she see a physician. I’m sure all our patients have physician relatives they can turn to to help guide them through this process. And yet they still gave her resistance.

What a ridiculous comparison.

That seems straight forward but if I misinterpreted you, than you have my apologies.

Now, point to anyone in this thread who said that midlevels in their current state aren't a problem. Speaking for myself, I would love for there to be no midlevels in primary care. But that's not an option at the moment. We don't have the doctors required to meet the demand. Now we are seeing significant expansion of FM residencies so that might change in the next 10 years. It'll be interesting to see.

 

[Sushirolls]

I would love for there to be no midlevels in primary care. But that's not an option at the moment. We don't have the doctors required to meet the demand.

And this gets to my original point(s).
1) midlevels exist, and that's not good
2) I believe part of the atmosphere that created and encouraged their existence was the shift away from GP acceptance in the US
3) A factor [not the only] in US detracting from GPs was the creation and emphasis on a specialist force of Family Medicine

We can meet the demand, and solve the Noctor issue by continuing to ramp up medical school class sizes, and permitting graduates to practice and then preferentially hire them over ARNPs/PAs; or continue with existing state licensure infrastructure and require 1-2 years GME, and preference the hiring of GPs as midlevels.

surgical assistant? Skip the PA. Hire the GP.
ED needs throughput for all the non-emergencies, hire the GP. etc, etc.

We can easily have enough doctors in the US, we just need to change the certain key system infrastructure pieces. If we don't there is a very real possibility that the beloved model of specialty, and more training in America will essentially be phased out. FM, Psychiatry, Anesthesiology, etc, etc, all gone. And we all lose then. Except the hospital admin, and insurance companies, and stock prices of UHC, Cigna, etc.

 

[Vandalia]

Plenty (if not a majority) of states will license you after intern year.

Traditional medicine will be quite unforgiving of you in context of the above.

Now, let's temper that with the realities of what medicine is these days.

We have PAs, and they literally change jobs at the drop of hat and do things they never even rotated through as a student.
We have ARNPs doing online schools and opening their own practices.

At this point, go open your own basic General Practice, and grow it with what you feel comfortable doing. Devote lots of time to reading things like Cecils and the other big IM text books. Do lots of other CME courses and get a subscription to UpToDate.

Once things get running, you won't want to go back to residency!

Go build your cash practice how you want it.

I don't think those quoted correctly, but the issue will be with obtaining a medical license.

With that long of a gap (five years reported), it is very unlikely that the medical board would approve an unrestricted license. Based on how we handled similar cases, they would likely demand a period of training at a residency program. That was even for people who completed an accredited residency and took off a couple of years to have a child.

Every state is different, though.

(As an aside, that is why it is best not to abandon medicine completely. Depending on your specialty, in can be easier or more difficult, but a couple of clinical days a year can be enough to avoid a "gap.")

In this case, with just an intern year, and a significant period without clinical work, obtaining a medical license will not be trivial, even if in theory you can be granted one in a state that only requires a year of GME.

 

[rokshana]

interesting interpretation of that statement. You're making my point for me. Most offices are basically forcing people to see midlevels. As the post I responded too acknowledged as well. There's no infantilizing about it and that's an incorrect way to use that term. That's like saying you're "infantilizing" someone by acknowledging that a patient with a physician relative is going to have a much easier time navigating an inpatient admission with that relative holding their hand and interpreting information for them compared to someone who doesn't have that advantage. Notice how the poster had to TELL his mother to switch from an NP to a physician.

Yeah in my job too I get people who transfer over from psych NPs to me because they suck. So what. It's not the majority of patients. You'd get "several patients per month". The day when half the patients who can't tell the difference between a DNP and physician and are calling their THERAPISTS (LPCs/MSWs) in our office "Dr" whatever suddenly know the subtleties between NP, PA and MD educational structure is the day I'll say this isn't a problem.

First… I’m a “she”…
And no, I didn’t have to “tell” my mother that she needed to get a physician… she came to me to say that she couldn’t believe that they said that they are all doctors to us.
Granted my mother was a physician’s wife for 53 years and is a dietitian… but I don’t think my patients and most people in general are as clueless as you think… maybe it comes from your skewed pt population?

 

[rokshana]

And this gets to my original point(s).
1) midlevels exist, and that's not good
2) I believe part of the atmosphere that created and encouraged their existence was the shift away from GP acceptance in the US
3) A factor [not the only] in US detracting from GPs was the creation and emphasis on a specialist force of Family Medicine

We can meet the demand, and solve the Noctor issue by continuing to ramp up medical school class sizes, and permitting graduates to practice and then preferentially hire them over ARNPs/PAs; or continue with existing state licensure infrastructure and require 1-2 years GME, and preference the hiring of GPs as midlevels.

surgical assistant? Skip the PA. Hire the GP.
ED needs throughput for all the non-emergencies, hire the GP. etc, etc.

We can easily have enough doctors in the US, we just need to change the certain key system infrastructure pieces. If we don't there is a very real possibility that the beloved model of specialty, and more training in America will essentially be phased out. FM, Psychiatry, Anesthesiology, etc, etc, all gone. And we all lose then. Except the hospital admin, and insurance companies, and stock prices of UHC, Cigna, etc.

No… the reason we have midlevels are because physicians in the 90s decided that they could use them to make more money… and them didn’t stem the tide .
We created this problem.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

And this gets to my original point(s).
1) midlevels exist, and that's not good
2) I believe part of the atmosphere that created and encouraged their existence was the shift away from GP acceptance in the US
3) A factor [not the only] in US detracting from GPs was the creation and emphasis on a specialist force of Family Medicine

We can meet the demand, and solve the Noctor issue by continuing to ramp up medical school class sizes, and permitting graduates to practice and then preferentially hire them over ARNPs/PAs; or continue with existing state licensure infrastructure and require 1-2 years GME, and preference the hiring of GPs as midlevels.

surgical assistant? Skip the PA. Hire the GP.
ED needs throughput for all the non-emergencies, hire the GP. etc, etc.

We can easily have enough doctors in the US, we just need to change the certain key system infrastructure pieces. If we don't there is a very real possibility that the beloved model of specialty, and more training in America will essentially be phased out. FM, Psychiatry, Anesthesiology, etc, etc, all gone. And we all lose then. Except the hospital admin, and insurance companies, and stock prices of UHC, Cigna, etc.

You realize that nothing is legally stopping anyone from using GPs in the ways you described. In residency I had an offer to moonlight in our ED fast track as a PGY-2. A surgeon can absolutely hire someone with an unrestricted license but no completed residency to assist them in the OR.

So why aren't they?

I can't say this with any true certainty, but I bet its some combination of:

1. Very few MD/DOs who get an intern year fail to complete residency. Sure we could do as you say and really just crank out way more med school grads than residency spots, but that gets into point 2...
2. I don't see many people wanted to do this. No one goes to medical school to be a "sort of kind of doctor" who just assists other doctors or does the work the other doctors don't want to waste time on
3. MD/DOs probably want more money than midlevels. I know what we pay ours and I would not work for that little. We have an NP whose RVU numbers are roughly 2/3rds what mine are. She makes roughly 30% of what I do.

 

[Smurfette]

You realize that nothing is legally stopping anyone from using GPs in the ways you described. In residency I had an offer to moonlight in our ED fast track as a PGY-2. A surgeon can absolutely hire someone with an unrestricted license but no completed residency to assist them in the OR.

So why aren't they?

I can't say this with any true certainty, but I bet its some combination of:

1. Very few MD/DOs who get an intern year fail to complete residency. Sure we could do as you say and really just crank out way more med school grads than residency spots, but that gets into point 2...
2. I don't see many people wanted to do this. No one goes to medical school to be a "sort of kind of doctor" who just assists other doctors or does the work the other doctors don't want to waste time on
3. MD/DOs probably want more money than midlevels. I know what we pay ours and I would not work for that little. We have an NP whose RVU numbers are roughly 2/3rds what mine are. She makes roughly 30% of what I do.

As a surgeon, I would not be likely to use a GP for some of these reasons.
First, I am the one in charge. I want an assistant, not someone who may overstep their role or question my decisions since they are also a physician. It IS hard to reign in other physicians who work as SAs from what I've heard anecdotally (I'm aware of some groups who would use physicians from other countries and whatnot as SAs)...especially if they are older/in practice longer than you.
Second, most physicians don't want to be paid a midlevel salary.
Third, liability/malpractice insurance of a licensed physician acting as an SA is probably going to be equal to that of the surgeon they are working with.
Fourth, some people who are unable to finish a residency were dismissed for absolutely appropriate reasons. Some of those reasons would continue to be problematic in a clinical setting; it may also be hard to find out the exact details of what happened. So, buyer beware.

 

[hallowmann]

First… I’m a “she”…
And no, I didn’t have to “tell” my mother that she needed to get a physician… she came to me to say that she couldn’t believe that they said that they are all doctors to us.
Granted my mother was a physician’s wife for 53 years and is a dietitian… but I don’t think my patients and most people in general are as clueless as you think… maybe it comes from your skewed pt population?

To be fair, at least 1/2 of my patients wouldn't know the difference between a midlevel, a resident or an attending. Hell 3/4 think a resident is a student no different than a PA student or nursing student.

Half the time when I see a patient after an NP has seen them, they refer to the NP as "doctor", and I've watched plenty of PAs and NPs not correct patients or DNPs introduce themselves as doctors to patients all over the hospital, despite the big "NURSE PRACTITIONER" label on their badges.

It's pushed hard here in academia. In even just the last few years I've seen far more proliferation of NPs in literally every service. The hospital just keeps hiring more. Now when I see that an initial outpatient specialist consult is done by a physician, I get excited, because of how rare it is.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to be rant about NPs, but I think the system is clearly stacked against GPs. Sometimes for good reason and other times for seemingly no reason at all. I think plenty of GPs would rather work even in a supervised setting for low 6-figures, and even if there is bad turnover, there's no way it would be worse than the midlevel turnover.

 

[elanmorin]

With all due respect to the people posting here, this is not impossible OP, and probably not as hard as everyone makes it sounds. I did almost exactly what you did, except without the intern year experience. I applied to competitive residency out of med school and didn't match (for a combination of reasons really, but it was the only thing in medicine I was interested in at the time). Took time away from medicine to pursue a non-medical career, which was somewhat successful, but also made me realize that I missed what I took for granted in medicine. Decided to come back after 5 years. Did a couple observerships and applied broadly. My scores are not great (but not horrible either). Took a lot less time to transition back into medicine than I figured. Ended up getting intern of the year award at my prelim year and now a chief resident. So, there is hope if you really want to get back into medicine; you don't really have anything to lose from trying anyway, but there's not likely to be a specific pathway per se for getting back into it. As far as LORs go, I still had some good contacts with profs at my med school who I sat down with and explained my situation and they were willing to write me LORs. Your situation may vary, but I suspect it's as good a place to start as any. Your home med school program is also most likely to give you a shot at it, as that is where I got back into things with my prelim year. Best of luck!

 

[elanmorin]

OP, sorry for the overly negative responses from many. Sure, it will be really tough but you were not asking that (and I assume you know that) you were asking steps and what it would look like.

I am living proof what you are asking can in fact be done. For better or worse, how you did as a medical student can help (or hinder). If you got a letter from your old PD, what you have done since, also people in the program for you will be genuinely interested in your other life. Contrary to popular opinion here, not everyone has a "perfect" A +b=c trajectory, nor should they. In my case, I was actually doing pretty well in what I was doing outside medicine but always had the pull to go back. I can answer more in a DM. Things I had going for me in full honestly: excellent medical school CV, good letter from old PD, some research in field prior to starting new residency and genuine love/interest for the field-with really nice evals in my now field from med school, also I did get an LOR from a practicing physician in the specialty. Caveat, I was always committed to medicine (as well as other things in life), I just selected an exceedingly intense and all consuming specialty initially as a semi naive med student. How your experience varies from your first residency to who you are will be unique to you.

Good luck!

Yes, I too found that people were generally curious to hear about my non-medical experience and the places that gave me interview invites were pretty understanding about the non-linear career path. Having a good track record is definitely helpful though.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

One of the worst things we did as physicians was create a FM specialty. We should have preserved GP as GP and not created an FM specialty. Doing so has contributed to this current narrow thinking.

What an absolutely bizarre take. If FM residencies shouldn't exist, then neither should IM (among others).

 

[Iamnew2]

So we all seem to agree that midlevels as PCPs suck. And that board certified docs who have completed a full residency are best.

So, would one solution be to replace midlevels by having docs like the OP have an easier time getting back into a residency, completing it, and make the midlevel as PCP obsolete?

Sounds like a great solution to the "physician shortage"....

Today one of our case managers told me how some midlevels are "better than some physicians." She tells me I have worked with both. I was not sure if I should laugh or cry.

 

[Vandalia]

As a surgeon, I would not be likely to use a GP for some of these reasons.
First, I am the one in charge. I want an assistant, not someone who may overstep their role or question my decisions since they are also a physician. It IS hard to reign in other physicians who work as SAs from what I've heard anecdotally (I'm aware of some groups who would use physicians from other countries and whatnot as SAs)...especially if they are older/in practice longer than you.

It is the same answer when physicians ask why we are willing to have an NP/PA in the ED, but balk at physicians from other specialties working there.

I (we) expect(ed) the mid-levels to follow specific protocols and use specific medications in specific doses in specific situations. Physicians are much more difficult to "herd."

"I have used Demerol for fifty years and I am not going to stop now!"
"Well, this is how I treat a woman for a UTI when she shows up at my office!"

Now since I am retired and can deviate from the party line a bit, there very well may be a role for having a "primary care clinic" to address many of the patients who come to an ED, but that is very different from practicing emergency medicine.

 

[Taurus]

With all due respect to the people posting here, this is not impossible OP, and probably not as hard as everyone makes it sounds. I did almost exactly what you did, except without the intern year experience. I applied to competitive residency out of med school and didn't match (for a combination of reasons really, but it was the only thing in medicine I was interested in at the time). Took time away from medicine to pursue a non-medical career, which was somewhat successful, but also made me realize that I missed what I took for granted in medicine. Decided to come back after 5 years. Did a couple observerships and applied broadly. My scores are not great (but not horrible either). Took a lot less time to transition back into medicine than I figured. Ended up getting intern of the year award at my prelim year and now a chief resident. So, there is hope if you really want to get back into medicine; you don't really have anything to lose from trying anyway, but there's not likely to be a specific pathway per se for getting back into it. As far as LORs go, I still had some good contacts with profs at my med school who I sat down with and explained my situation and they were willing to write me LORs. Your situation may vary, but I suspect it's as good a place to start as any. Your home med school program is also most likely to give you a shot at it, as that is where I got back into things with my prelim year. Best of luck!

Happy it worked out for you but did you accomplish this when there were still plenty of residency spots available? In the current era when thousands of US med students go unmatched because more medical schools opening and more US and FMG grads applying, I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Hopefully, it works out for the OP.

 

[j4pac]

GP is FM essentially. Problem is that Medicine is a money making business from inception. There is no point to burden people with a useless BA/BS if they are going into medicine. Have people go from high school to med school, save thousands on useless undergrad and if people don't get into med school then they can pursue a BA/BS. Don't have med students take pointless courses - don't have med students take never ending pointless tests that do nothing but line the pockets of random societies. USMLE 1-3 is a total and utter waste of time. There is no point and no value. Oral boards - no point and no value.

I sort of liked college. It’s where I have most of my friends including my wife. Cutting out college seems like the worst solution to any problem that I’ve ever heard! Lol I’m just messing with you. No but really…college is good

 

[BackToMedicine1]

With all due respect to the people posting here, this is not impossible OP, and probably not as hard as everyone makes it sounds. I did almost exactly what you did, except without the intern year experience. I applied to competitive residency out of med school and didn't match (for a combination of reasons really, but it was the only thing in medicine I was interested in at the time). Took time away from medicine to pursue a non-medical career, which was somewhat successful, but also made me realize that I missed what I took for granted in medicine. Decided to come back after 5 years. Did a couple observerships and applied broadly. My scores are not great (but not horrible either). Took a lot less time to transition back into medicine than I figured. Ended up getting intern of the year award at my prelim year and now a chief resident. So, there is hope if you really want to get back into medicine; you don't really have anything to lose from trying anyway, but there's not likely to be a specific pathway per se for getting back into it. As far as LORs go, I still had some good contacts with profs at my med school who I sat down with and explained my situation and they were willing to write me LORs. Your situation may vary, but I suspect it's as good a place to start as any. Your home med school program is also most likely to give you a shot at it, as that is where I got back into things with my prelim year. Best of luck!

OP, sorry for the overly negative responses from many. Sure, it will be really tough but you were not asking that (and I assume you know that) you were asking steps and what it would look like.

I am living proof what you are asking can in fact be done. For better or worse, how you did as a medical student can help (or hinder). If you got a letter from your old PD, what you have done since, also people in the program for you will be genuinely interested in your other life. Contrary to popular opinion here, not everyone has a "perfect" A +b=c trajectory, nor should they. In my case, I was actually doing pretty well in what I was doing outside medicine but always had the pull to go back. I can answer more in a DM. Things I had going for me in full honestly: excellent medical school CV, good letter from old PD, some research in field prior to starting new residency and genuine love/interest for the field-with really nice evals in my now field from med school, also I did get an LOR from a practicing physician in the specialty. Caveat, I was always committed to medicine (as well as other things in life), I just selected an exceedingly intense and all consuming specialty initially as a semi naive med student. How your experience varies from your first residency to who you are will be unique to you.

Good luck!

Thank you both for posting your experiences, and MilaIsMyBaby2022 I sent you a DM. And thank you everyone for all the responses.

For anyone who did get back into medicine in a situation like this, I'd be curious to know how you found the program you eventually wound up at.

 

[Iamnew2]

I sort of liked college. It’s where I have most of my friends including my wife. Cutting out college seems like the worst solution to any problem that I’ve ever heard! Lol I’m just messing with you. No but really…college is good

I liked college too but it was a big waste of time from a professional perspective and I had a full scholarship so it’s not like I spent a lot of money. But still waste of time

 

[IonClaws]

But what I'm saying is it really sucks butt that we have someone who's put in all this time and effort to go through medical school, pass the steps, do an intern year and then spends a few years out of the field and then the best we can say is "sorry bud guess you're out of luck" when he's asking about getting back into medicine.

This quote is why I believe that the traditional MD/DO route to medicine is no longer worthwhile. After 12 years of training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, you only find out that the field's not for you after all of this and you're left with nothing.

For anyone who hasn't yet started on this path, go to PA or NP school. You get almost all the perks and almost none of the liability.

 

[Iamnew2]

This quote is why I believe that the traditional MD/DO route to medicine is no longer worthwhile. After 12 years of training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, you only find out that the field's not for you after all of this and you're left with nothing.

For anyone who hasn't yet started on this path, go to PA or NP school. You get almost all the perks and almost none of the liability.

It is hardly the same to state that "you get almost all the perks and almost none of the liability." PA/NPs make a fraction of what physicians do. To think they have no liability is incorrect. Plenty of midlevels get sued. I agree that the system needs to change to allow individuals with MDs who have had issues matching to match. There is no reason generally speaking to let a degree like that go to waste.

 

[Crayola227]

This quote is why I believe that the traditional MD/DO route to medicine is no longer worthwhile. After 12 years of training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, you only find out that the field's not for you after all of this and you're left with nothing.

For anyone who hasn't yet started on this path, go to PA or NP school. You get almost all the perks and almost none of the liability.

To be fair, I'm less sympathetic for people feeling "it isn't for them" than for people who can't go in the straight track and have to take time off for family or illness, or picked a field they weren't suited for, or are remediatable but maybe needed more time, who could conceivably be competent physicians, not able to get back into training.

For me it's not that being an attending in the medical field sucks as it sucks. It's that the training scheme is so rigid and even without making it less rigid, you can't get back on as it is.