Respect from patients/other health care practicioners

[Dr_Feelgood]

i don't think you can compare the F&A orthopod offer to a DPM's offer because they are two different specialties. Even if the employer is an orthopoedic group, the DPM's offer is always less for various reasons: mainly the fact that we can't take general calls, obviously less reimbursment per procedure, etc.

However, I have read that many F&A orthopod fellowships go unfilled, maybe you can explain this to me further - but generally the spine, knee, hip ones don't have that problem.

I am eager to understand this also b/c there are 51 fellowship positions according to the American Orthopedic Surgeon site. I wonder how many are unfilled each year???

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[jonwill]

I am eager to understand this also b/c there are 51 fellowship positions according to the American Orthopedic Surgeon site. I wonder how many are unfilled each year???

Last I checked, there were around 50 programs with a total of around 80 slots. Every year, they will post the slots that go unfilled. Since I have been paying attention, usually about half go unfilled. Maybe DAWG could be more specific.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

My mistake I was on the AOFAS site and didn't see the R-Z fellowship link at the bottom

 

[doclm]

i don't think you can compare the F&A orthopod offer to a DPM's offer because they are two different specialties. Even if the employer is an orthopoedic group, the DPM's offer is always less for various reasons: mainly the fact that we can't take general calls, obviously less reimbursment per procedure, etc.

However, I have read that many F&A orthopod fellowships go unfilled, maybe you can explain this to me further - but generally the spine, knee, hip ones don't have that problem.

I thought a DPM with a PM&S-36 could do the same, if not more with the foot than a F&A orthopod??? Don't the DPM's get trained to do all foot surgerys possible with the foot, plus know all ways to treat nails, diabetic ulcers, and biomechanic problems. What if the DPM did a foot and ankle fellowship after residency?

Thanks for your input

 

[Podman]

I thought a DPM with a PM&S-36 could do the same, if not more with the foot than a F&A orthopod??? Don't the DPM's get trained to do all foot surgerys possible with the foot, plus know all ways to treat nails, diabetic ulcers, and biomechanic problems. What if the DPM did a foot and ankle fellowship after residency?

Thanks for your input

It doesn't matter if the DPM does a foot and ankle fellowship after residency - we still can't take general ortho calls, but they can. The Foot and ankle Orthopod is not going to be intrested in treating nails - they'll refer this problem to someone else. He/she is an orthopedic surgeon first and foremost - and that is the fundamental difference between our specialties - we are foot and ankle physicians...they on the other hand, are trained to operate on the whole body, in addition to their specialization in foot and ankle.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Pods can and do fill F&A fellowships. Why? Increase in training and great for a CV if you want to get into a ortho group. But you don't get any other privileges and much of the training will be a repeat.

 

[flypod]

What do you mean "general ortho calls"?

 

[doclm]

It doesn't matter if the DPM does a foot and ankle fellowship after residency - we still can't take general ortho calls, but they can. The Foot and ankle Orthopod is not going to be intrested in treating nails - they'll refer this problem to someone else. He/she is an orthopedic surgeon first and foremost - and that is the fundamental difference between our specialties - we are foot and ankle physicians...they on the other hand, are trained to operate on the whole body, in addition to their specialization in foot and ankle.

Thank you I understand that. However, in terms of surgically treating the foot if needed, can a Podiatrist with a 3 year surgical residency do the same as an F&A orthopod? Say that there is no F&A orthopod in your area and you get the referral from another source. Or the patient prefers the DPM, because he or she is a complete foot specialist that can do more conservative follow-ups after the surgery. What do you mean by general call? Something not related to the foot right?

 

[dawg44]

Fellowships go unfilled in all fields peds, spine, hand, totals. You name it. The main reason is not necessarily because a "field is dead". Its hard give up a half a million dollar job to slum it like a resident for another year. All orthopods have been at it for 9 years and sometimes an extra year isn't appealing if you've had great training.

 

[dawg44]

So your practice markets you instead of general marketing/referrals???

I will agree with call that is the biggest drawback for any ortho group. But that being said those pods that are in ortho groups get screwed b/c they are always on call.

I'm sure dpmgrad only had one offer and had to sleep under a bridge before that first paycheck. Come on dawg, most grads have numerous offers out of residency.

Promoting that you are a fellowship trained orthopedic surgeon may not seem like a big deal on the podiatry page that we are on, but it certainly carries weight when you are talking to other orthopods or physicians.

I've sure dpmgrads get offers but do you really want to compare them?

 

[doclm]

Fellowships go unfilled in all fields peds, spine, hand, totals. You name it. The main reason is not necessarily because a "field is dead". Its hard give up a half a million dollar job to slum it like a resident for another year. All orthopods have been at it for 9 years and sometimes an extra year isn't appealing if you've had great training.

Is fellowships necessary for Orthopods to do foot and ankle surgeries comparable to DPM's with a forefoot, and rearfoot board certification? Has this changed in the past or will it be a factor in the future?

 

[doclm]

Promoting that you are a fellowship trained orthopedic surgeon may not seem like a big deal on the podiatry page that we are on, but it certainly carries weight when you are talking to other orthopods or physicians.

I've sure dpmgrads get offers but do you really want to compare them?

Let me get this right, the differences for DPM's board certified are:

Not being able to take general call
Not getting paid the same by medicare than an MD
Not having an MD or DO degree

Correct?

Why else would someone who is trained in a similar fashion, not be able to get as good of offers? Its not like Pods believe in a whole different method of medicine, like foot manipulation or something. However some do believe in cowbell.

 

[IlizaRob]

What do you mean "general ortho calls"?

Fly, in the pod mind there are two types of ortho surgeons. The F&A fellowship trained ortho (Dawg) and all the others. So when we talk about general ortho call it refers to anything other than the F&A.

 

[krabmas]

Promoting that you are a fellowship trained orthopedic surgeon may not seem like a big deal on the podiatry page that we are on, but it certainly carries weight when you are talking to other orthopods or physicians.

I've sure dpmgrads get offers but do you really want to compare them?

"Fellowships go unfilled in all fields peds, spine, hand, totals. You name it. The main reason is not necessarily because a "field is dead". Its hard give up a half a million dollar job to slum it like a resident for another year. All orthopods have been at it for 9 years and sometimes an extra year isn't appealing if you've had great training."

these 2 quotes by dawg sort of contradict each other. I have heard that fellowships weigh a lot more in the MD world than in the pod world. this is changing but slowly. Most of the orthopods that I work with in JAX are going to do fellowships after residency.

some fellowships might also go unfilled because they are not accredited. It used to not matter to get board certified for ortho sub-specialties to do a certified fellowship but now it is starting to matter. So the un-accredited may go empty.

 

[IlizaRob]

Let me get this right, the differences for DPM's board certified are:

Not being able to take general call
Not getting paid the same by medicare than an MD
Not having an MD or DO degree

Correct?

Why else would someone who is trained in a similar fashion, not be able to get as good of offers? Its not like Pods believe in a whole different method of medicine, like foot manipulation or something.

You have to realize that not taking other ortho cases (Hip, Knee) and getting paid less than ortho on some F&A surgeries (depending on state) can alter your income compared to an ortho. Orthos on average make more (dawg has made that clear on more than one occasion). But rightfully so. They spend about 3 more years in training not including fellowships. With that being said, it doesnt mean that you cannot make as much as an F&A ortho. A podiatric surgeon here in Des Moines works in an ortho group and makes as much as a F&A ortho. I think he actually just became partner in the group. He told us that he is the highest producer in the group. But that may be rare.

 

[cool_vkb]

You have to realize that not taking other ortho cases (Hip, Knee) and getting paid less than ortho on some F&A surgeries (depending on state) can alter your income compared to an ortho. Orthos on average make more (dawg has made that clear on more than one occasion). But rightfully so. They spend about 3 more years in training not including fellowships. With that being said, it doesnt mean that you cannot make as much as an F&A ortho. A podiatric surgeon here in Des Moines works in an ortho group and makes as much as a F&A ortho. I think he actually just became partner in the group. He told us that he is the highest producer in the group. But that may be rare.

So lets get this straight, the only reason u mean a F & A ortho makes such a huge salary is bcoz he also works on other body parts apart from F & A right.

Suppose, F & A Orthoped Surgeon decides he will not attend any general calls or take any patients apart from Foot & Ankle cases, i guess he will make same as Podiatrist. Am i right?

And why is this discrimination. Why are our reimbursment rates lower than that of MDs. Any comment on that. And is it all over USA or its only in some states.

 

[doclm]

You have to realize that not taking other ortho cases (Hip, Knee) and getting paid less than ortho on some F&A surgeries (depending on state) can alter your income compared to an ortho. Orthos on average make more (dawg has made that clear on more than one occasion). But rightfully so. They spend about 3 more years in training not including fellowships. With that being said, it doesnt mean that you cannot make as much as an F&A ortho. A podiatric surgeon here in Des Moines works in an ortho group and makes as much as a F&A ortho. I think he actually just became partner in the group. He told us that he is the highest producer in the group. But that may be rare.

Thanks for your feedback.

I can understand in those terms why a DPM would make less. However, I don't want to go through all this education just to be making less than 100K, not having the freedom to enjoy being a specialist of the entire foot. Which, I believe is very important in an patients quality of life.

I am pretty much saying that I do not want to see the great field of Podiatry turn sour again like it did 15-20 years ago when people would go through this rigorous and rewarding education, and have their dreams smashed by not being able to do what they went to school for. Either a result from not getting a decent residency or having other MD's stomp on their turf just because they can make much more $$$ than a POD.

 

[doclm]

And why is this discrimination. Why are our reimbursment rates lower than that of MDs. Any comment on that. And is it all over USA or its only in some states.

I believe this to be an issue in legislation. However, I thought that PPAC had sent something to congress this year in regards to equal pay for DPM's.

Can someone else enlighten us on this issue???

I have not yet been able to access those secured files from the APMA.

 

[OOK]

I agree, someone that would do that sounds like they are trying to back their way in.

I don't quiet understand what you mean by back their way in. But, people do what make them feel more comfortable. if MD/DPM makes someone feels good then he/she should go for it. For my part, I think it is just a waste of time and money. however, people think differently and have the right to do what they like.
do you think DDS/MD is " back their way in " also?

 

[Podman]

Let me get this right, the differences for DPM's board certified are:

Not being able to take general call
Not getting paid the same by medicare than an MD
Not having an MD or DO degree

Correct?

Why else would someone who is trained in a similar fashion, not be able to get as good of offers? Its not like Pods believe in a whole different method of medicine, like foot manipulation or something. However some do believe in cowbell.

Those already are huge differences doclm - Not having an MD/DO means we can't do a full orthopoedic residency (5 years for the whole body) therefore, we can't take general call - which means any other part on the body. Because, they can take general calls, they are reimbursed more. Those are facts that should not be undermined and are large enough to result in the large gaps between our salaries (starting offers at least).

Look, the DPM training is great - we get great education and excellent residency training. This is what I want to do and I love it. But you gotta accept that our specialties are different from one another. Yes a Foot and ankle orthopoedic surgeon will operate on the foot and ankle just like a podiatric surgeon would - but he can operate on other areas of the body as well, while we employ other aspects of our clinical skills i.e. wound management, diabetic ulcers, etc. For that reason, we can't really be compared because we're separate specialties/areas of medicine

 

[Podman]

So lets get this straight, the only reason u mean a F & A ortho makes such a huge salary is bcoz he also works on other body parts apart from F & A right.

Suppose, F & A Orthoped Surgeon decides he will not attend any general calls or take any patients apart from Foot & Ankle cases, i guess he will make same as Podiatrist. Am i right?

And why is this discrimination. Why are our reimbursment rates lower than that of MDs. Any comment on that. And is it all over USA or its only in some states.

No it won't make him as a podiatrist because a podiatrist does alot of primary care with wound care, nails, diabetic infections, etc.

Our reimbursment is lower because orthopoedic surgon as mentioned earlier, can take general calls.

 

[dawg44]

Those already are huge differences doclm - Not having an MD/DO means we can't do a full orthopoedic residency (5 years for the whole body) therefore, we can't take general call - which means any other part on the body. Because, they can take general calls, they are reimbursed more. Those are facts that should not be undermined and are large enough to result in the large gaps between our salaries (starting offers at least).

Look, the DPM training is great - we get great education and excellent residency training. This is what I want to do and I love it. But you gotta accept that our specialties are different from one another. Yes a Foot and ankle orthopoedic surgeon will operate on the foot and ankle just like a podiatric surgeon would - but he can operate on other areas of the body as well, while we employ other aspects of our clinical skills i.e. wound management, diabetic ulcers, etc. For that reason, we can't really be compared because we're separate specialties/areas of medicine

Thank you, very well put. Other posts have minimized the call issue, but it is huge. Ask an administrator his biggest worry about orthopedics in his hospital and it is covering call. There is a reason more and more places are shelling out money for call, because there are lots of orthopods (mainly sports, hand and foot and ankle) that do 99% of their work at surgery centers and have courtesy only privileges for the occasional complication that can't be handled outpatient.

 

[dawg44]

"Fellowships go unfilled in all fields peds, spine, hand, totals. You name it. The main reason is not necessarily because a "field is dead". Its hard give up a half a million dollar job to slum it like a resident for another year. All orthopods have been at it for 9 years and sometimes an extra year isn't appealing if you've had great training."

these 2 quotes by dawg sort of contradict each other. I have heard that fellowships weigh a lot more in the MD world than in the pod world. this is changing but slowly. Most of the orthopods that I work with in JAX are going to do fellowships after residency.

some fellowships might also go unfilled because they are not accredited. It used to not matter to get board certified for ortho sub-specialties to do a certified fellowship but now it is starting to matter. So the un-accredited may go empty.

One of the biggest issue on why orthopods do a fellowship as well is obviously what type of practice they want to do and where. It is a marketing tool no doubt about it. You don't need a fellowship to do a carpal tunnel, rod a femur, do an arthroscopic RC repair or perform a bunion correction if your training was good and you feel comfortable. There are programs that may not give alot of autonomy or have the volume that a graduate would think that a fellowship is a good idea.

As far as accredited fellowships go, right now in hand in it absolutely matters you can't take the CAQ otherwise. It will become that way in Sports once the sports CAQ goes into effect. The other fields not so much, maybe in the future but nothing appears imminent at this point.

 

[krabmas]

I agree that the call thing is a huge factor in the salary gap as well as reimbursment but....


I think some of the other reason for that salary gap goes back to podiatry eating its young. This used to be the case and sometimes still is. The ortho groups know that they can hire a pod for just a little more than what the pod would get from a fellow older pod. And that older pod might make the new employee go cut nails at the nursing home.

If the new pod can get a job for a little more money and no nursing homes, the orthos do not need to offer so much money.

just like pods in the military if the pods would hold out the military would offer more laon repayment and orthos would offer more money if they had trouble finding pods to take what they already offer.

 

[dawg44]

Is fellowships necessary for Orthopods to do foot and ankle surgeries comparable to DPM's with a forefoot, and rearfoot board certification? Has this changed in the past or will it be a factor in the future?

No, not if they had a good experience in their residency and feel comfortable. An orthopod can operate anywhere they are allowed to by the hospital privileges they apply for.

 

[dawg44]

I agree that the call thing is a huge factor in the salary gap as well as reimbursment but....


I think some of the other reason for that salary gap goes back to podiatry eating its young. This used to be the case and sometimes still is. The ortho groups know that they can hire a pod for just a little more than what the pod would get from a fellow older pod. And that older pod might make the new employee go cut nails at the nursing home.

If the new pod can get a job for a little more money and no nursing homes, the orthos do not need to offer so much money.

just like pods in the military if the pods would hold out the military would offer more laon repayment and orthos would offer more money if they had trouble finding pods to take what they already offer.

I know a few ortho groups that have DPMs in the group, but none of them are partners or if they are partners they are limited. You alluded to the reason, they don't have to. Why would the orthopods in the group split their ancillary revenue if they don't have to. Illizarob made a point about the guy in Des Moines. Maybe that's rare, maybe it will become the norm to become a full partner. Who knows? I haven't seen it in my limited experience, but I'm sure it happens.

 

[cool_vkb]

I know a few ortho groups that have DPMs in the group, but none of them are partners or if they are partners they are limited. You alluded to the reason, they don't have to. Why would the orthopods in the group split their ancillary revenue if they don't have to. Illizarob made a point about the guy in Des Moines. Maybe that's rare, maybe it will become the norm to become a full partner. Who knows? I haven't seen it in my limited experience, but I'm sure it happens.

.

 

[doclm]

No, not if they had a good experience in their residency and feel comfortable. An orthopod can operate anywhere they are allowed to by the hospital privileges they apply for.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[cool_vkb]

.

May be this is out of context, but isnt the present day average salary of pod around 150-160K. ofcourse as most of u like to say, Provided u r a good business man and graduate from a good residency.

I mean thats a very good salary considering the amount of work we put in. I mean common, Orthopedics spend so much more time than us in studying, and getting in a orthopedic residency is no joke, its not IM or FM residency, where any idiot foreign MD or a regualr US medical school student can get in with low USMLE scores. i heard u gotta get some real good USMLE scores and other activities to get in a Orthopedic Residency and think abt the malpractice insurance and the risk which they take on themselves when doing these surgeries.

Our career is very light, easy going job wise and no tension of any big law-suit pondering over head. I dont know but i think (iam not even a pod student, so im no expert) but something around $150K-160K is a very good salary , its equal to that of a general practioner or a IM or FM. ofcourse if we are good business minded and luck is with us then i guess we can make more money.

Iam not trying to compare salaries or say we make more than a FM or orthopeds make more than us. but at the end of the day its abt satisfaction. are u satisfied with ur salary as compared to the job u did. And i think Podiatry salaray is very satisfying.

 

[Podman]

May be this is out of context, but isnt the present day average salary of pod around 150-160K. ofcourse as most of u like to say, Provided u r a good business man and graduate from a good residency.

I mean thats a very good salary considering the amount of work we put in. I mean common, Orthopedics spend so much more time than us in studying, and getting in a orthopedic residency is no joke, its not IM or FM residency, where any idiot foreign MD or a regualr US medical school student can get in with low USMLE scores. i heard u gotta get some real good USMLE scores and other activities to get in a Orthopedic Residency and think abt the malpractice insurance and the risk which they take on themselves when doing these surgeries.

Our career is very light, easy going job wise and no tension of any big law-suit pondering over head. I dont know but i think (iam not even a pod student, so im no expert) but something around $150K-160K is a very good salary , its equal to that of a general practioner or a IM or FM. ofcourse if we are good business minded and luck is with us then i guess we can make more money.

Iam not trying to compare salaries or say we make more than a FM or orthopeds make more than us. but at the end of the day its abt satisfaction. are u satisfied with ur salary as compared to the job u did. And i think Podiatry salaray is very satisfying.

I don't know where you're getting this, but no "idiot" can be a FM or an IM. Internal med docs are probably the best people to work with because of their knowledge in medicine, and I happen to know more than a few excellent ones and I can tell you with full assurance they are no "idiots".

 

[flypod]

Our career is very light, easy going job wise and no tension of any big law-suit pondering over head. I dont know but i think (iam not even a pod student, so im no expert) but something around $150K-160K is a very good salary , its equal to that of a general practioner or a IM or FM. ofcourse if we are good business minded and luck is with us then i guess we can make more money.

Sounds like some old marketing propaganda from the schools. Work 40 hours a week, be a doctor, no call, do surgery, ect ..

Salary from my research says 40-60K to start and after 5-10 years $90K. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics says pods make $94K on average. The Health Guide also reports average earnings of $94,400 annually.

I think that to state the career is "easy going job wise and no tension of any big law suit pondering over hear" is a very irresponsible statement. You, as a medical practitioner, will always have the risk of lawsuits. If you decide to work a light load or keep it "easy going" I can guarantee you half the earnings of the average podiatrist and a very high chance of failure as a pod financially. It will take 80-100 hours a week of hard work to be sucessful (in any business).

I am no pod but I can say I think you may be a little misinformed if those are your immediate conceptions of podiatry.

 

[cool_vkb]

I don't know where you're getting this, but no "idiot" can be a FM or an IM. Internal med docs are probably the best people to work with because of their knowledge in medicine, and I happen to know more than a few excellent ones and I can tell you with full assurance they are no "idiots".

Man u never read my posts properly. i said "no idiot Foreign MD " not idiot IM or FM. why wud i call FM or IM idiot. the reason i call Foreign MD idiot is bcoz there are many foreign MDs atleast whom i know who went to some medical school in India or Pakisan paying $40000/year without any MCAT, without any Interviews, nothing. i mean they just paid the money and they were blindly accepted. and after they come back they join FM or IM residency bcoz thats the most easiest to get in with low USMLE scores. Man i cant even describe how stupid and foolish they are. plzz note, im not saying all Foreign MDs. iam referring to only those who are stupid by nature as well score low USMLE scores and apply to FM or IM just bcoz they have low score requiremnets.

Just as many say on this forum, not all represent any speciality. Some foreign MDs are idiots. iam an asian indian myself. so iam no racist iam just saying what i saw. but its true. every speciality has some bad apples. may be u never encountered any but there are a lot of idiots out there just as there are many unsuccesfull pods out there. now do u wanna assure me all pods out there are very good and superior bcoz u never saw any bad pod. its not like that. i never said idiot MDs. i said there are some foreign Mds who apply to IM or FM residency are idiots.

I wud never call any medical speciality idiot or insult it.

 

[cool_vkb]

Sounds like some old marketing propaganda from the schools. Work 40 hours a week, be a doctor, no call, do surgery, ect ..

Salary from my research says 40-60K to start and after 5-10 years $90K. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics says pods make $94K on average. The Health Guide also reports average earnings of $94,400 annually.

I think that to state the career is "easy going job wise and no tension of any big law suit pondering over hear" is a very irresponsible statement. You, as a medical practitioner, will always have the risk of lawsuits. If you decide to work a light load or keep it "easy going" I can guarantee you half the earnings of the average podiatrist and a very high chance of failure as a pod financially. It will take 80-100 hours a week of hard work to be sucessful (in any business).

I am no pod but I can say I think you may be a little misinformed if those are your immediate conceptions of podiatry.

Dude i didnt wanted to argue with u, but cudnt resist. ofocourse our job is easy going. Now what, did u heard any table death on a podiatrist table. Did u heard any patient going blind after a surgery performed from a podiatrist, did u heard anyone losing mental balance after treatment from a Podiatrist.

There are many specialities in Medicine. Some are easy going while some are real serious. the job of anesthisiologist is very tough compared to that of a Geniticist. Now u wanna compare them. The job of a cardiologist is very risky. anytime he does a surgery there is a good amount of chance that the patient can die also. A neurosurgeon has to worry what if he removes other part by mistake . now dont freakin argue why this will happen, there are tons of cases where by mistake the Neurosurgeon performed operation on the wrong part of brain resulting in mental imbalance or memory loss or blindness in patients. now do u know what kind of law suits loom over these kind of people. There any many risks involved in surgery cases . im not saying every surgeon has lawsuits or does mistakes . but theres always fear what if u go wrong. tats why they spend several years after medical school perfecting their skills and knowledge so that they do screw up in real life. tats why their fees and rates are also very high. A cardio surgeon makes nearly $500000 above anually. Man we pods dont have that type of fears. we are cool!

We as Podiatrists are not in any risky business. we dont deal any death related or extra harmful ailments. we just refer them when we see any systemic involvement. did u heard anyone dying of complications arising due to surgery of ingrown toe-nail or anyone dying during rearfoot surgery due to some internal haemorage. i like podiatry bcoz of this. its a very good easy going health profession. if i wanted something more i cud have applied to MD. if a pod is within his scope of podiatrist i hardly wonder he will be in any kind of serious trouble. ofcourse we may also get a lawsuit but its not gonna be as serious.

And regarding 90k, atleast in chicago the Pods whom i shadow make nearly 200k and others whom i spoke also say they make around $150k. So i wudnt be arguing with u on that.

 

[flypod]

Dude i didnt wanted to argue with u, but cudnt resist. ofocourse our job is easy going. Now what, did u heard any table death on a podiatrist table. Did u heard any patient going blind after a surgery performed from a podiatrist, did u heard anyone losing mental balance after treatment from a Podiatrist.

There are many specialities in Medicine. Some are easy going while some are real serious. the job of anesthisiologist is very tough compared to that of a Geniticist. Now u wanna compare them. The job of a cardiologist is very risky. anytime he does a surgery there is a good amount of chance that the patient can die also. A neurosurgeon has to worry what if he removes other part by mistake . now dont freakin argue why this will happen, there are tons of cases where by mistake the Neurosurgeon performed operation on the wrong part of brain resulting in mental imbalance or memory loss or blindness in patients. now do u know what kind of law suits loom over these kind of people. There any many risks involved in surgery cases . im not saying every surgeon has lawsuits or does mistakes . but theres always fear what if u go wrong. tats why they spend years after medical school perfecting their skills and knowledge so that they do screw up in real life. Man we pods dont have that type of fears. we are cool!
We as Podiatrists are not in any risky business. we dont deal any death related or extra harmful ailments. we just refer them when we see any systemic involvement. did u heard anyone dying of complications arising due to surgery of ingrown toe-nail. i like podiatry bcoz of this. its a very good easy going health profession. if i wanted something more i cud have applied to MD. ofcourse we may also get a lawsuit but its not gonna be as serious. And regarding 90k, atleast in chicago the Pods whom i shadow make nearly 200k and others whom i spoke also say they make around $150k. So i wudnt be arguing with u on that.

There is no such thing as a minor surgery my friend. You think podiatry has no complications? Think again. There have been thousand of claims against pods doing surgery. If you dont have "that type of fear" you are a complacent doctor (or will be) and are asking to get your azz sued. Systemic invlovments are usually chronic whereas life threating issues associated with podiatric surgery are acute and present a more rapid onset. Infection, embolisms, thrombosis, MRSA, and other nasty things will get you. I suggest you read about the risks of surgery before you spout off about what you have no clue about.

As for the earnings, ask the schools and read the studies/surveys. They all depict the AVERAGE around $90-100K.

I am sorry, but this has to be the most idiotic post I've ever read.

 

[Podman]

Man u never read my posts properly. i said "no idiot Foreign MD " not idiot IM or FM. why wud i call FM or IM idiot. the reason i call Foreign MD idiot is bcoz there are many foreign MDs atleast whom i know who went to some medical school in India or Pakisan paying $40000/year without any MCAT, without any Interviews, nothing. i mean they just paid the money and they were blindly accepted. and after they come back they join FM or IM residency bcoz thats the most easiest to get in with low USMLE scores.

I wud never call any medical speciality idiot or insult it. man! plzz do read my posts carefully.

No I wasnt mistaken - I know you were referring to foreign MD's and I don't get or appreciate teh "idiot" label either. Its not only ignorant to post something like that on a professional forum but extremely disrespectful

 

[jonwill]

Sounds like some old marketing propaganda from the schools. Work 40 hours a week, be a doctor, no call, do surgery, ect ..

Salary from my research says 40-60K to start and after 5-10 years $90K. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics says pods make $94K on average. The Health Guide also reports average earnings of $94,400 annually.

I think that to state the career is "easy going job wise and no tension of any big law suit pondering over hear" is a very irresponsible statement. You, as a medical practitioner, will always have the risk of lawsuits. If you decide to work a light load or keep it "easy going" I can guarantee you half the earnings of the average podiatrist and a very high chance of failure as a pod financially. It will take 80-100 hours a week of hard work to be sucessful (in any business).

I am no pod but I can say I think you may be a little misinformed if those are your immediate conceptions of podiatry.

As I have been traveling the nation this year visiting PM&S-36 residency programs, offers to residents starting are anywhere from 100k to 150k base salary. Offers to residents who are going into private practice are less of a base (50-75k) but with greater incentives (which should easily put them over 100k their 1st year). This is done in private practice because, until you build up a patient base, you are a greater risk to your partners.

A lot of salary reports for pod med (including the US Bureau of Labor Stats) are very skewed because they include part time pods, residents, and of course, their is a huge discrepancy in training. For instance, the city that I am now rotating in has around 40 practicing pods. However, only 8 have their forefoot and rearfoot surgical board certification. There was a pretty accurate salary survey done by the young members and JAPMA published last year. I posted it somewhere on here. I'll try and find it.

 

[cool_vkb]

No I wasnt mistaken - I know you were referring to foreign MD's and I don't get or appreciate teh "idiot" label either. Its not only ignorant to post something like that on a professional forum but extremely disrespectful

No Sir, if they are stupid then i wudnt hesitae to call them a stupid. iam not calling all foreign MDs stupid. Iam calling only those who are stupid as stupids. Just bcoz u never encountered any doenst mean all are good. Sorry, i wud never agree on that.

 

[cool_vkb]

There is no such thing as a minor surgery my friend. You think podiatry has no complications? Think again. There have been thousand of claims against pods doing surgery. If you dont have "that type of fear" you are a complacent doctor (or will be) and are asking to get your azz sued. Systemic invlovments are usually chronic whereas life threating issues associated with podiatric surgery are acute and present a more rapid onset. Infection, embolisms, thrombosis, MRSA, and other nasty things will get you. I suggest you read about the risks of surgery before you spout off about what you have no clue about.

As for the earnings, ask the schools and read the studies/surveys. They all depict the AVERAGE around $90-100K.

I am sorry, but this has to be the most idiotic post I've ever read.

Jeez man! What kind a stupid person are u. did u really did any shadowing or u r faking here. There are minor surgeries and major surgeries. who said u there isnt any thing called as Minor Surgery. And i never said there arent any complaications with podiatric surgeries. i said there arent any major like the ones encountered by Cardios or Neuros,etc. ofcourse every surgery can have complications. Open ur eyes wide and read what others post. dont just type anything or bold the words that u want others to read. may be u shud try a career in law school. People of ur calibre will do very good in law school. i like ur arguing style and persistance.

and just u heard is 90k doesnt mean it is 90k. as i said earlier iam not even gonna give u the luxury and comfort of arguing with me on this. so no more comments.

 

[jonwill]

Come on now people! Let's quit with all of the name calling and keep it professional. It would be a shame to have to close the thread.

 

[cool_vkb]

Come on now people! Let's quit with all of the name calling and keep it professional. It would be a shame to have to close the thread.

iam sorry for my behavior. i appologize. i will make sure i dont use name calling and will keep things professional. Sorry Boss!

 

[doclm]

Sounds like some old marketing propaganda from the schools. Work 40 hours a week, be a doctor, no call, do surgery, ect ..

Salary from my research says 40-60K to start and after 5-10 years $90K. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics says pods make $94K on average. The Health Guide also reports average earnings of $94,400 annually.

I think that to state the career is "easy going job wise and no tension of any big law suit pondering over hear" is a very irresponsible statement. You, as a medical practitioner, will always have the risk of lawsuits. If you decide to work a light load or keep it "easy going" I can guarantee you half the earnings of the average podiatrist and a very high chance of failure as a pod financially. It will take 80-100 hours a week of hard work to be sucessful (in any business).

I am no pod but I can say I think you may be a little misinformed if those are your immediate conceptions of podiatry.

Are you joking or what?
DPM's make much higher than $40-60k starting. I made that working as a lab tech before entering school, with an hourly wage on average of $25 per hour. If a DPM cannot do more worth than $25 per hour, somethings wrong here. They must be seeing only 1 patient per day working 3 days a week or something. Also, it will not take 80-100 hours per week to be successful. I personally dont consider any doctor that works 80-100 hours per week to be a successful doctor whom will be seeing any of my patients. Doctors in hospitals by law cannot work more than 80 hours per week for a reason. I get your drift about working hard to get somewhere however the lifestyle and more $$$ in Podiatry is true. I am sorry you are so misinformed.

 

[doclm]

Man u never read my posts properly. i said "no idiot Foreign MD " not idiot IM or FM. why wud i call FM or IM idiot. the reason i call Foreign MD idiot is bcoz there are many foreign MDs atleast whom i know who went to some medical school in India or Pakisan paying $40000/year without any MCAT, without any Interviews, nothing. i mean they just paid the money and they were blindly accepted. and after they come back they join FM or IM residency bcoz thats the most easiest to get in with low USMLE scores. Man i cant even describe how stupid and foolish they are. plzz note, im not saying all Foreign MDs. iam referring to only those who are stupid by nature as well score low USMLE scores and apply to FM or IM just bcoz they have low score requiremnets.

Just as many say on this forum, not all represent any speciality. Some foreign MDs are idiots. iam an asian indian myself. so iam no racist iam just saying what i saw. but its true. every speciality has some bad apples. may be u never encountered any but there are a lot of idiots out there just as there are many unsuccesfull pods out there. now do u wanna assure me all pods out there are very good and superior bcoz u never saw any bad pod. its not like that. i never said idiot MDs. i said there are some foreign Mds who apply to IM or FM residency are idiots.

I wud never call any medical speciality idiot or insult it.

That is paying $40,000 per year if they couldn't initially get in. However, most that get in without $$$ incentives don't owe anything for medical school. I have seen my share of stupid foreign and stupid american doctors. Its a fact that all doctors are not created equally.

 

[capo]

delete

 

[JEWmongous]

Yea flypod told me how much more difficult flying a plane was over being a podiatrist...yet he quotes Napoleon Dynamite. What a loser!

 

[dawg44]

If you think you can't be sued check this site out.
www.footlaw.com

 

[johnnycash]

Yea flypod told me how much more difficult flying a plane was over being a podiatrist...yet he quotes Napoleon Dynamite. What a loser!

I hope he is joking. Flying isn't hard, it just takes practice and some skill. Geez, I earned my basic license at 16 and by the time I was 30 I had a 737-200 type rating. I am sure medicine is much harder.

 

[cool_vkb]

If you think you can't be sued check this site out.
www.footlaw.com

I never said we pods cant be sued. ofcourse we can be sued. why cant u people read the posts properly.

i said we cant have that many big suits or at huge risks as a cardio or Neuro surgeons are. may be we also have big suits but comparing our profesional risks to the professional risks of someone who does heart transplants or brain surgery is not fair. Agree or not, not a very large majority of Podiatrists perform Rearfoot or midfoot surgeries which are considered major surgeries. but still a lot of podiatrists perform fore-foot surgery only as their bread & butter. Its not something u cud start comparing to the professions where there is a matter of life and death.

Its not that, we are inferior or they are superior. its different specialities. Some specialties have tougher responsibities while some are not that tough. you gotta understand, iam not insulting Podiatry or exaggerating some other field. BASE LINE: YES ALL PROFESSIONS CAN BE SUED.

 

[flypod]

I hope he is joking. Flying isn't hard, it just takes practice and some skill. Geez, I earned my basic license at 16 and by the time I was 30 I had a 737-200 type rating. I am sure medicine is much harder.

Ha ha ha!! Type ratings. What a joke that was. My type ride was easier than my private pilot. Try your ATP rating or your CFI, CFII, MEI ratings and tell me how easy they are. Try dealing with a stabilator oscillation at FL390 (39,000). Try shooting an approach in actual with half your FMS inoperative. Try a 0/0 ILS.

You earned your private pilot at 16 huh? Well, the minimum age is 17 so you are obviously a liar. So, what ratings do you hold?

I currently hold my -

CRJ200/700/900 Type, ATP rating, CFI, CFII, MEI, AGI, CSEL.

 

[krabmas]

I never said we pods cant be sued. ofcourse we can be sued. why cant u people read the posts properly.

i said we cant have that many big suits or at huge risks as a cardio or Neuro surgeons are. may be we also have big suits but comparing our profesional risks to the professional risks of someone who does heart transplants or brain surgery is not fair. Agree or not, not a very large majority of Podiatrists perform Rearfoot or midfoot surgeries which are considered major surgeries. but still a lot of podiatrists perform fore-foot surgery only as their bread & butter. Its not something u cud start comparing to the professions where there is a matter of life and death.

Its not that, we are inferior or they are superior. its different specialities. Some specialties have tougher responsibities while some are not that tough. you gotta understand, iam not insulting Podiatry or exaggerating some other field. BASE LINE: YES ALL PROFESSIONS CAN BE SUED.

please be careful of what you post or say on here. I know you have shaddowed and think you know lots about pod medicine but you will be amazed at how much your views will change in the few years of school.

all the schools (most) promote the profession as an easier form of medicine. For those that take it seriously it is not easier.
pods can and do get sued. it doesn't matter if you get sued for taking out the wrong side of a brain or having a bad outcome for a bunion. sued is sued. A pod cannot be sued for taking out the wrong side of a brain. instead they would go to jail for battary/ assult or murder. (for all that are unaware - operating that causes death but is out of scope is considered murder. it can happen to MDs too. )

until you have gone thru 4 years of school, 3 years of residency and been in practice for at least 2 years, please do not promote this profession as an easier side to medicine. it is not.

 

[JEWmongous]

Thanks flypod and "cool"-vkb for adding your intelligent comments to the thread.