Regret in doing a residency

[spacecowgirl]

I would regret residency unless it got me a job in which residency was absolutely required.

That's pretty short-sighted. You have a career for decades, you can't think about just what you're doing the first year you graduate.

Is residency a must to get a clinical pharmacist position in hospitals? Or is it a trend to do so since it's getting more and more competitive? I heard from one of my friends in CA that she had to go for a residency because she could not find a hospital position without it.

There are many threads on this. I suggest using the SDN search function. Resourcefulness is a good quality for a pharmacist.

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[p-rog]

That's pretty short-sighted. You have a career for decades, you can't think about just what you're doing the first year you graduate.

Eh, I know what you mean about valuing the learning experience and all that, but still you will learn that stuff over your decades of experience in your career regardless, no? So why would you want a residency if it gave you the same exact job you could have gotten straight out of pharmacy school without one?

I mean sure, there's the whole confidence thing, and for some people that may be a big enough reason to justify the lost salary and extra time commitment...but if that isn't really a big issue to you why would you still do a residency.

I think in most cases, a residency should get you a job at a hospital that would not have hired you straight out of school, regardless if it's a clinical, staff, or hybrid position. But if it doesn't do that, I really have trouble seeing the value of a residency being worth the sacrifice.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I'm trying to come up with a response, but I think it could best be explained if you came and shadowed me for a day

In short - I thought the residency= 3-5 years' work experience was hogwash. It isn't.

It depends on your career goals. If you want to be just a staff pharmacist (I mean no disrespect at all, some people like to clock in, do a great job and clock out, end of story) then the residency route, BCPS isn't needed. If you want to be more "clinical", or move up in to a supervisory role, I think it's really important. When you're working as a staff pharmacist, you don't have a whole lot of time to do extra stuff that would give you an equivalent experience. You just don't.

tl;dr - depends on your career goals.

 

[2012pharmd]

I am pursuing a non-traditional pharmd program and will be graduating next year in aug 2012. I have worked in retail for 5 years and am currently an inpatient pharmacist for the past one and half year.
I am very interested in pursuing a career in ambulatory pharmacy.
What are my chances of getting a residency next year ?
Also what are my chances of getting an ambulatory care pharmacist position after graduation.
Thanks!

 

[PharmDY]

Residencies are required for many and most Ambulatory Care positions. Kaiser Permanente most likely will not hire you as a pharmacist (outpatient or inpatient setting) without a residency (at least in California), although having a residency is only "highly recommended" on paper. Big cities in California are extremely saturated now, so job is definitely scarce. I have not heard of a single resident not being offered a job after residency, but have heard many who are non-residents. Hope this helps.

 

[2012pharmd]

Residencies are required for many and most Ambulatory Care positions. Kaiser Permanente most likely will not hire you as a pharmacist (outpatient or inpatient setting) without a residency (at least in California), although having a residency is only "highly recommended" on paper. Big cities in California are extremely saturated now, so job is definitely scarce. I have not heard of a single resident not being offered a job after residency, but have heard many who are non-residents. Hope this helps.

Thanks for your reply.
I am currently residing in midwest. I find that there are not as many ambulatory care residencies or ambulatory care pharmacist positions.
I understand that california is an exception. Do you know what the future holds as far as ambulatory pharmacy goes. Also , a few people have told me that specializing i.e. doing pgy2 narrows down the career options. Any ideas?
thanks

 

[spacecowgirl]

Thanks for your reply.
I am currently residing in midwest. I find that there are not as many ambulatory care residencies or ambulatory care pharmacist positions.
I understand that california is an exception. Do you know what the future holds as far as ambulatory pharmacy goes. Also , a few people have told me that specializing i.e. doing pgy2 narrows down the career options. Any ideas?
thanks

Actually there are quite a few amb residencies in the Midwest! U of MN has a huge amb care program. There are definitely fewer amb care jobs than other settings but they are out there.

No one knows the future of amb care pharmacy. I personally think it will increase when we start going to medical home/ACOs. But I don't know that.

Use the SDN search function. Many of these topics have been discussed over and over and over.

 

[Kazekage]

I am one of the black sheep pharmacists known within my known group of pharmacists friends, and my opinion on residencies is going to be very untraditional...

I think residencies is a bunch of horse sh**. You already struggled through undergraduate, and graduate paying/and or borrowing loans to get a doctorate degree just to find out that the job market sucks, and that doctrate degree really doesnt mean much. Why the hell would you choose residencies for sh**T pay & more work, and dealing with a$shole preceptors who treat you like ****, just to find out that the job market STILL sucks after you do residency!?!

When you are in pharmacy school, its mostly academic clinical education. What they dont teach you is financial competency, business education, marketing for yourself.

Compare 2 different pharmacists:

Pharmacist 1: Pharm.D. degree, BCPS certified, works at a clinical position at some hospital making an average of $95,000 a year. Works full time, but has to spend hours outside his salary to finish his work.

Pharmacist 2: Bachelors degree pharmacy only. Owns 3 independent pharmacies making $400,000 a year. Sets his own schedule, goes on lots of vacations

Keep in mind it took Pharmacist 2 a while to eventually reach his financial and business goals, but he did achieve it (by marketing the crap out of his pharmacies), versus pharmacist's salary will increase slightly every year, inflexible schedule, limited vacations, stressful work. At best, pharmacist 1 will finally recieve that "prestigious" status that he wanted all his life within his academic community, since he is most likely a workaholic and has this mentality to proove that he is the smarter pharmacists than his collegues!

I dont know about you guys, but I really dont need residency at all. The only type of residency i will consider is Compounding, because i honestly dont think they teach you much of that in pharmacy school. My goal is to be liscenced in many states. Right now I am only liscenced in Illinois, i am planning to be liscensed in: California, Florida, Hawaii, Texas, New York, Massachuessets (sp?). Then i want to work towards being a certifed diabetes educator (CDE), and be fluent in spanish, considering the diabetes population is going to be on the rise, as well as the hispanic population. I want to work with other creative non-traditional pharmacists who want to open up an independent pharmacy (big supporter of independent pharmacies) and enjoy growing and being pharmacists rather than being stuck, stagnet and miserable.

Residency is not the only way to 'secure' your job or to have experience. You have to be creative, and expand your mind, have connections, market yourself. You also have to look inside what truly makes you happy. Residency is NOT the path job security. I used to work for a company called Osco Drug/Albertsons. I worked for the company for 9+ years as a technician/student. I had great customer reviews, great evaluations from my pharmacy manager + letter of recommendations from the manager himself and staff pharmacists. When i got done from pharmacy school expecting to be a pharmacist for Osco/Albertsons, they said they had NO position for me despite my loyalty to the company and aforementioned reviews. I got LAID OFF. Now that company even offers Community Pharmacy residencies. I cannot beleive this bullsh*T! Even if you do community pharmacy residency,-when it comes to securing a job with benefits, in the end arent you going to have to play the same role as a dispensing pharmacist who didnt do community pharmacy residency?

My main point is that in GENERAL, residencies are NOT the path to job security. Some specific type of residencies do offer you a path to specfic type of jobs. There are OTHER ways to grow and expand your career in pharmacy that does NOT involve residency.

 

[KARM12]

My main point is that in GENERAL, residencies are NOT the path to job security. Some specific type of residencies do offer you a path to specfic type of jobs. There are OTHER ways to grow and expand your career in pharmacy that does NOT involve residency.

Right, but I have no interest in doing retail or owning my own business. I want to do clinical hospital work...therefore residency is a must. I would not have gotten my current job if I did not have residency experience.

It depends in your career goals. If you want to work retail or own a business than there is no reason to do a residency. No one is saying you need to do a residency for these type of jobs...what is your point? You are talking about something different. I don't expect to make a lot of money as a clinical hospital pharmacist, but I enjoy what I do. That is more important. I don't want to stress of owning 3 stores. If you like that, then go for it! I've heard some success stories and some not so successful stories. It takes the right person with the right business sense.

I'm not sure the purpose of this post, because it doesn't have much to do with the thread topic...unless you have completed a residency and regret doing so.

 

[Kazekage]

The purpose of my post was to give my opinion on people who "regret" doing a residency, for those pharmacists who thought that the path to taking residency would lead to a better more secure job or *a* job in general.

Being more 'clinical' oriented does NOT lead to the type of pharmacy job you want. Pharmacists doing residencies thinking that they will have *a* job due to the crappy economy are (in my opinion) not making a very wise decision. They need to identify first what type of pharmacy job they want. If a pharmacists likes being clinically oriented then the residency is definitley a thing they must consider. If pharmacists likes compounding, then he can be an apprentice and shadow a pharmacists who has been compounding most of his life, you dont need to do clinical residency, it serves no purpose.

Buzz words for recent and fresh graduates is "residencies, specilization and clinical", i noticed a lot of emphasis on this when i was about to graduate from my pharmacy school teachers and counselors, and i think its a bunch of bull. Owning a pharmacy does have a lot of stressors, im sure there can be another thread on this alone, i am just pointing out something to people that when it comes to "specilization" and expanding your experience as a pharmacist, you dont need to do a residency.

 

[Praziquantel86]

The purpose of my post was to give my opinion on people who "regret" doing a residency, for those pharmacists who thought that the path to taking residency would lead to a better more secure job or *a* job in general.

Being more 'clinical' oriented does NOT lead to the type of pharmacy job you want. Pharmacists doing residencies thinking that they will have *a* job due to the crappy economy are (in my opinion) not making a very wise decision. They need to identify first what type of pharmacy job they want. If a pharmacists likes being clinically oriented then the residency is definitley a thing they must consider. If pharmacists likes compounding, then he can be an apprentice and shadow a pharmacists who has been compounding most of his life, you dont need to do clinical residency, it serves no purpose.

Buzz words for recent and fresh graduates is "residencies, specilization and clinical", i noticed a lot of emphasis on this when i was about to graduate from my pharmacy school teachers and counselors, and i think its a bunch of bull. Owning a pharmacy does have a lot of stressors, im sure there can be another thread on this alone, i am just pointing out something to people that when it comes to "specilization" and expanding your experience as a pharmacist, you dont need to do a residency.

OK. That's all true. People don't do residencies to own independent pharmacies or compound. I think anyone would tell you that's a poor use of your time.

 

[Kazekage]

I think there was more to what i said then your condensed statement praziquante

 

[Praziquantel86]

They need to identify first what type of pharmacy job they want. If a pharmacists likes being clinically oriented then the residency is definitley a thing they must consider.

Sorry, forgot about that. I agree.

 

[KARM12]

I think there was more to what i said then your condensed statement praziquante

No I think he summed it up well. People need to decide what their career goals are and decide their path accordingly...that is anything you do in life... Nothing guarantees a job. Just like opening a pharmacy doesn't mean it will be successful...

 

[Kazekage]

Whatever. im done with this thread

 

[spacecowgirl]

Whatever. im done with this thread

Bye.

 

[aboveliquidice]

Bye.

We lose more clinical RPhs this way...

 

[rrr10]

I never regretted doing residency. With the way things are, you may not get your dream job straight out of residency, but no one can take away your experience and the dream job can happen one day in the future. Hospitals prefer residency trained pharmacists now and even for 'staffing' positions with all else being equal, would select the resident over new grad. I know that I am much more confident in myself and have better clinical skills because of residency than if I hadn't done one. I did residency not for the ultimate job straight out of training, but for the experience.

There are some hospitals now that are progressing to where every pharmacist is clinical and performs both clinical and distributional duties and precepts students/residents. They hire residency trained only or equivalent clinical experience. It is a more integrated practice model.

 

[ionou]

reading on your own and doing a few volunteer hours a week will give you the same experience WITHOUT ALL THE ****TY PROJECTS.

residency is great if you love writing up monographs, journal clubs, handouts, presentations.

So, if you suck at presentations (and hate being in front of large crowds no matter how many times you've done it), does it mean residency will not be for you?

 

[njac]

So, if you suck at presentations (and hate being in front of large crowds no matter how many times you've done it), does it mean residency will not be for you?

it means you'll get over it if you do a residency.

 

[aboveliquidice]

it means you'll get over it if you do a residency.

This... you'll be surprised how often you present during your residency. It becomes just another part of your weekly schedule.

 

[KARM12]

it means you'll get over it if you do a residency.

Agree 100%! I was terrible at presenting when I was a student and I can honestly say I perfected this skill by the end of residency.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I have always hating presenting. But this year has forced me to get used to it. I had a TON of presentations for APPEs (at least it felt like that). The biggest thing I had to work on was to discuss the material in my own words as I went through the slides, instead of just reading. Today I am happy to report that my evaluations on my LAST pharmacy school presentation ever (!!!!) indicated that my presentation skills "far exceeded expectations for an APPE student." It's a huge deal for me, because I think I really sucked before the year started. So practice does indeed help. I am mostly looking forward to continuing to develop my skills during residency. I need to work on not being nervous. I always feel so SCARED during presentations. And sweaty. Haha.

 

[PharmDStudman]

Did anyone do a residency only because they could forsee the end of the retail pharmacist (ie- automation, central fill, outsourcing, etc -see walgreens project one thread)? The only reason I would do a residency is to have a more secure job. But I'm starting to think if retail goes under, the whole profession will go along with it...Plus it seems very difficult to get a hospital job even after residency. Thoughts?