rearfoot certified

[sinustarsi]

Why is it the number of raerfoot certified so low? Is the oral boards very hard to pass or is it hard to get the cases? How long on avg do we need to wait till he are foot and ankle board certified after residency? Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[NatCh]

The number of of reconstructive rear foot/ankle certified podiatrists is in the high 700s. I have always figured that the number is relatively low because there are not that many of us who have met the requirements to even sit for the examination. I believe Podfather is still active with the ABPS administration, so maybe he will comment.

Regardless, the oral examination is very difficult. I felt that all examinations leading up to part II were comparatively easy.

 

[Podfather]

Why is it the number of raerfoot certified so low? Is the oral boards very hard to pass or is it hard to get the cases? How long on avg do we need to wait till he are foot and ankle board certified after residency? Thanks.

I believe it's the type of cases that need to be logged prior to sitting for the exam. Unless in a busy DPM practice, an ortho group, or a multispecialty group it can take longer to see RRA type of patients. The general public (unfortunately) still often either self or is MD referred to orthopedics for the more complex problems or trauma out of the ER. It may take a few years in an area to gain the confidence of the referring MDs that you do this and for them to change their thinking. Many DPMs push for Foot certification first since they need certification to remain on hospital satff and insurance panels. The pass rate of the exam is in the 60-70% range.

In addition Foot and Ankle certification is considered the same as Foot and RRA for certification purposes by the ABPS so that adds a couple thousand more DPMs to the 777 number.

 

[NatCh]

In addition Foot and Ankle certification is considered the same as Foot and RRA for certification purposes by the ABPS so that adds a couple thousand more DPMs to the 777 number.

I've met, worked for, and scrubbed in with several older F&A certified DPMs who have never truly been anywhere near the ankle. I think this has been discussed here before though. If I needed a flatfoot recon or ankle ORIF I think I would have better luck seeing a DPM who has the RRA cert (unless the F&A doc already has a solid reputation for doing RF/Ankle). There are some F&A docs like you and PADPM who do it all, but I suspect most don't have the comfort level even if their hospital bylaws permit it.

 

[Podfather]

I've met, worked for, and scrubbed in with several older F&A certified DPMs who have never truly been anywhere near the ankle. I think this has been discussed here before though. If I needed a flatfoot recon or ankle ORIF I think I would have better luck seeing a DPM who has the RRA cert (unless the F&A doc already has a solid reputation for doing RF/Ankle). There are some F&A docs like you and PADPM who do it all, but I suspect most don't have the comfort level even if their hospital bylaws permit it.

Perhaps but at the time they took the exam they submitted cases and were tested comprehensively. I train and know many RRA qualified and even certified DPMs who do not, either by choice or for other reasons, do not touch the rearfoot and ankle. Many of the nationally known speakers and so-called experts are foot and ankle certified and were the ones who trained the RRA people. It is like a senior board certified orthopedist who chooses to do only bread and butter ortho surgery now and not to do some of the newer techniques or procedures. No one is implying they should be excluded or are less than a junior ortho who is doing it all.

Remember RRA was not the result of better training or experience. It was the result of people who practiced in states and locales that prohibited ankle surgery and could not sit for the ABPS Foot and Ankle exam. So it was decided (still controversial) to offer a Foot only exam so those people could sit and be certifed. Once the Foot was carved out a second exam was created for the ankle. Unfortunately the RRA includes the word rearfoot and some argue that Foot is somehow only the forefoot. This is hardly the truth and Foot means entire Foot.

Today we are seeing some (particularly recent grads) imply they are superior to the older docs and that that is why RRA was developed. They are using the RRA to exclude colleagues (regardless of their training and experience) at the state and local level from comprehensively treating in some cases the rearfoot and most the ankle. I find this self serving attitude troubling and remember when I had 2 years of residency and half of my class had none and most only 1 year I fought to include all who could demonstrate training and experience rather than exclude them. In my time I could have been the only DPM on staff but morally thought that was wrong and knew I needed the "team" for future battles.


Since only 777 are RRA certified I would argue that many of todays graduates are still being trained in the rearfoot and ankle by us lowly Foot and Ankle guys/gals.

 

[347932]

If I needed a flatfoot recon or ankle ORIF I think I would have better luck seeing a DPM who has the RRA cert (unless the F&A doc already has a solid reputation for doing RF/Ankle).

Being RRA certified does not imply more competency in the cases you mentioned. I believe all 3 year graduates should be able to do those whether their program offers the RRA or not.

That is my problem with the Foot vs. RRA situation. Hospitals and insurances require ABPS cert in many areas. That's it. Hospitals don't ask whether you are Foot and RRA certified when you ask to perform those procedures on your request for privileges. They ask for number of cases you performed as a resident or in practice and whether you are ABPS cert or not. The only people that are going to ask you about RRA and potential limit your scope at a hospital if you don't have it are OUR people. Sometimes we are our worst enemies.

 

[NatCh]

I've also noticed the common attitude that recent grads have about their "superior training" but it's also occurred to me that the people providing the training had only one or two years of Residency from back-in-the-day. It's a shame that folks use their current training status to take a superior stance when they haven't even really gotten out of the gate yet. I do believe that some of the most capable surgeons in our profession have the F&A cert.

My local hospital and surgery center both make a distinction between Foot cert and RRA cert. On the delineation of privileges form they have separated Foot and RRA at the tarsometatarsal joint.

Being certified in any form doesn't guarantee a good result, and not being certified doesn't guarantee a poor result. For the general public seeking a doctor, I think personal referral trumps all.

 

[Podfather]

I've also noticed the common attitude that recent grads have about their "superior training" but it's also occurred to me that the people providing the training had only one or two years of Residency from back-in-the-day. It's a shame that folks use their current training status to take a superior stance when they haven't even really gotten out of the gate yet. I do believe that some of the most capable surgeons in our profession have the F&A cert.

My local hospital and surgery center both make a distinction between Foot cert and RRA cert. On the delineation of privileges form they have separated Foot and RRA at the tarsometatarsal joint.

Being certified in any form doesn't guarantee a good result, and not being certified doesn't guarantee a poor result. For the general public seeking a doctor, I think personal referral trumps all.

It's a bad time for us to divide ourselves. I know many solid recent grads who respect their mentors and defend the profession as much as my generation. However there are those who carry their generational self absorption into the profession. I know I am anonymous but can tell you I have given up significant income and personal time to open the doors that our newest take for granted. A couple of years ago after a year that included 25+ non pay trips for the profession one of these "superstars" told me I should "give back" to the profession do a third year and convert to RRA. I was obviously upset but just smiled thinking everything comes full circle. He has been sued several times and I was asked to be his defense expert (at his request). I simply said as a 2 year trained foot and ankle certified surgeon I probably wasn't qualified.............. Karma

 

[javajava]

I simply said as a 2 year trained foot and ankle certified surgeon I probably wasn't qualified.............. Karma

lol I cant imagine what his facial expression was

 

[Feli]

Being RRA certified does not imply more competency in the cases you mentioned. I believe all 3 year graduates should be able to do those whether their program offers the RRA or not.

That is my problem with the Foot vs. RRA situation. Hospitals and insurances require ABPS cert in many areas. That's it. Hospitals don't ask whether you are Foot and RRA certified when you ask to perform those procedures on your request for privileges. They ask for number of cases you performed as a resident or in practice and whether you are ABPS cert or not. The only people that are going to ask you about RRA and potential limit your scope at a hospital if you don't have it are OUR people. Sometimes we are our worst enemies.

I would tend to disagree somewhat here.

As someone in the job hunt right now, I've been asked multiple times by facilities and chief of podiatry about my residency program's usual ABPS pass rate, esp on the ABPS RRA exams. Many places, the facilities (read: ortho) has figured out, and wisely so, that requiring RRA qual, and then eventual cert, will exclude more DPMs than it'll include, so it's becoming a req for more and more facilities' privileging.

 

[347932]

I would tend to disagree somewhat here.

As someone in the job hunt right now, I've been asked multiple times by facilities and chief of podiatry about my residency program's usual ABPS pass rate, esp on the ABPS RRA exams. Many places, the facilities (read: ortho) has figured out, and wisely so, that requiring RRA qual, and then eventual cert, will exclude more DPMs than it'll include, so it's becoming a req for more and more facilities' privileging.

As I said, sometimes we are our worst enemies.

I have not seen this trend. If this is the case, you should truly find out who initiated this change and you may find out that it's not necessarily our Ortho cousins. I would also be curious as to why a facility would not approve you all forefoot and midfoot procedures without RRA cert. What does RRA cert really mean as far as expertise and experience?

 

[NatCh]

I've seen this trend in my area too. I'm not sure who initiated it because it was put in place before there was anyone here with RRA status.

Too bad the wording wasn't just "Reconstructive/Ankle" rather than "RRA." Hindsight...

 

[347932]

I've seen this trend in my area too. I'm not sure who initiated it because it was put in place before there was anyone here with RRA status.

Too bad the wording wasn't just "Reconstructive/Ankle" rather than "RRA." Hindsight...

Agreed. One of the issues too, is that hey, if only a couple of guys/gals want to be on staff at a hospital doing the "big" stuff, I don't necessarily have a problem with it. Those that do this will quickly realize that it may not stimulate their wallets as much as their egos and then by excluding their colleagues, they may run into a situation where they decide they don't want to be so busy with these procedures (I've seen this happen all too often), and now the hospital is stuck. It's hard to reverse these types of credential requirements at the MEC level once they're in place.

Share the wealth folks. The ones before you were not exclusive. Let's drive the profession forward instead of fragmenting it.

 

[NatCh]

I'm actually surprised that hospitals would want to exclude any docs these days, as they're financially hurting. A buddy of mine is an O.R. nurse and he said that when the economy tanked, elective surgeries at the hospital dried up and pretty much all they schedule are trauma and total joints.

Locally our DPMs do somewhere around 30-50 elective cases per month total, mostly forefoot, and the surgery center has catered to us to capture this niche. Meanwhile our hospital has cultivated a hostile environment, and as a result I don't think any DPM willingly schedules there.

I've heard through the grapevine that this sentiment extends beyond podiatry, and other specialties feel the same way about our hospital. If you figure that O.R. fees are $3000+ per case, you can guess how much lost business that adds up to.

 

[dyk343]

As a student, I can tell you that I have been reassured over and over again by our professors that....

"you are all going to receive the best F&A training in the country"

"No one will be able to match your expertise"

"the training today is so much better than the training I received"

"This is the best time to be entering podiatry"

etc, etc...

They teach the attitudes.

 

[NatCh]

As a student, I can tell you that I have been reassured over and over again by our professors that....

"you are all going to receive the best F&A training in the country"

"No one will be able to match your expertise"

"the training today is so much better than the training I received"

"This is the best time to be entering podiatry"

etc, etc...

They teach the attitudes.

They also told us that same thing back in 1994.

 

[347932]

They also told us that same thing back in 1994.

And in 1999 as well...

 

[dyk343]

Class of 2014 FTW!

(note irony)

 

[NatCh]

Class of 2014 FTW!

(note irony)

I bought into it the whole way and was swelled up with pride up until I finished training and realized I had to now go make a living.

That's when the humbling started.

 

[PADPM]

As a student, I can tell you that I have been reassured over and over again by our professors that....

"you are all going to receive the best F&A training in the country"

"No one will be able to match your expertise"

"the training today is so much better than the training I received"

"This is the best time to be entering podiatry"

etc, etc...

They teach the attitudes.

This should always be true for every subsequent graduating class....BUT;

-who is training the NEW grad, yes one of the previous grads who had inferior training????

-excellent training does not always equate with excellent skills

-there is NO substitute for experience

 

[347932]

this should always be true for every subsequent graduating class....but;

-who is training the new grad, yes one of the previous grads who had inferior training????

-excellent training does not always equate with excellent skills

-there is no substitute for experience

qft

 

[Podfather]

As a student, I can tell you that I have been reassured over and over again by our professors that....

"you are all going to receive the best F&A training in the country"

"No one will be able to match your expertise"

"the training today is so much better than the training I received"

"This is the best time to be entering podiatry"

etc, etc...

They teach the attitudes.

Look every specialty does the same. The best trained and experienced train the next group who will eventually assume that role. My 65 year old orthopod is as good and with experience often better than the most recent resident graduate. Does that mean he can do all of the latest and greatest joint replacements or treatments? Sometime yes but often they defer it to one of ttheir newest associates. The difference is you rarely see the orthopods saying only a ortho with x,y, and z should be permitted to do say foot and ankle or spine surgery. Our profession has some out there writing RRA and other things into state laws and hospital bylaws.

Those who argue patient safety are hypocrites. For example if that were the issue then the MDs would have written into their law only a boarded plastic surgeon should do cosmetic surgery etc.

 

[doctazero]

As a student, I can tell you that I have been reassured over and over again by our professors that....

"you are all going to receive the best F&A training in the country"

"No one will be able to match your expertise"

"the training today is so much better than the training I received"

"This is the best time to be entering podiatry"

etc, etc...

They teach the attitudes.

You betcha. And there will be constant requests for donations to the APMA, your DPM school and this or that fund - Donate, donate, donate and then if you are a true believer and have been donating for years and have done well they will name a chair after you. Maybe even an entire dining room set. The YOU library at the podiatry school of your choice. And the band plays on.

 

[347932]

You betcha. And there will be constant requests for donations to the APMA, your DPM school and this or that fund - Donate, donate, donate and then if you are a true believer and have been donating for years and have done well they will name a chair after you. Maybe even an entire dining room set. The YOU library at the podiatry school of your choice. And the band plays on.

This is also simply not true.

Not only that, but how do you know so much about this? You haven't practiced in years and I doubt you've been involved enough to know how the cookie crumbles. Where do you get this information or are you merely speculating?

 

[doctazero]

This is also simply not true.

Not only that, but how do you know so much about this? You haven't practiced in years and I doubt you've been involved enough to know how the cookie crumbles. Where do you get this information or are you merely speculating?

Speculating? Isn't that sort of like gambling? You know roulette, Black Jack, slot machines, games of chance, right?

So if I spun the magic bunion wheel and it landed on podiatry school what would my chances be of: Getting a residency? Getting a really super residency? Getting a license in a `choice' state with a shot at working at an orthopedic group?

Tell the students and residents what the facts and figures are. Inform us, please? Facts and figures. Enlighten me. Crush that cookie and see where and how the crumbs spread. Will they land on the ground to be swept under a rug only to be discovered at some point as stale morsels with a tremendous debt? Please, use this forum to educate us all. Perhaps my information is inaccurate or incorrect-Educate me, educate the readers. Or will an invitation to attend some grand Super Seminar at a theme park or casino arrive in the days post, inviting me, for a fee, to listen to the latest greatest advances in podiatry and then go on one of the rides or engage in a game of chance? At least, if you're bright enough you can count cards at the Black Jack table. But I don't gamble. To the: If `I haven't practiced in years' statement, why am I constantly badgered by people wanting money for some podiatry fund, foundation or other endeavor. Okay, now that the magic bunion wheel's come to a stop, what number did it land on?

For those of us podiatricly uninformed, tell us, please: How much money does it cost to go to podiatry school? How much money accrues in student loan debt? What can a podiatrist do today that a podiatrist could not do outside of podiatry after graduation with his/her DPM degree outside of waiting for a training program? Tell us all why podiatry is so great and why we should read these posts about how far podiatry has gone and how much a podiatrist can do without the caveat that there's only a limited amount of positions for a few DPM graduates who've followed this site and came to believe that podiatrists ALL have equal opportunities. Please, a little veracity goes a lot toward the credibility of your organization. Or, would you prefer to break apart my post line by line and argue each point as if it were some TV show with bickering politicians? Just tell us the truth about the opportunities, after all, what can I know? Where do I get my information? If I answered that I'd get a violation notice and be banned from the board. Since you've brought it up, where do YOU get YOUR information?

 

[javajava]

Speculating? Isn't that sort of like gambling? You know roulette, Black Jack, slot machines, games of chance, right?

So if I spun the magic bunion wheel and it landed on podiatry school what would my chances be of: Getting a residency? Getting a really super residency? Getting a license in a `choice' state with a shot at working at an orthopedic group?

Tell the students and residents what the facts and figures are. Inform us, please? Facts and figures. Enlighten me. Crush that cookie and see where and how the crumbs spread. Will they land on the ground to be swept under a rug only to be discovered at some point as stale morsels with a tremendous debt? Please, use this forum to educate us all. Perhaps my information is inaccurate or incorrect-Educate me, educate the readers. Or will an invitation to attend some grand Super Seminar at a theme park or casino arrive in the days post, inviting me, for a fee, to listen to the latest greatest advances in podiatry and then go on one of the rides or engage in a game of chance? At least, if you're bright enough you can count cards at the Black Jack table. But I don't gamble. To the: If `I haven't practiced in years' statement, why am I constantly badgered by people wanting money for some podiatry fund, foundation or other endeavor. Okay, now that the magic bunion wheel's come to a stop, what number did it land on?

For those of us podiatricly uninformed, tell us, please: How much money does it cost to go to podiatry school? How much money accrues in student loan debt? What can a podiatrist do today that a podiatrist could not do outside of podiatry after graduation with his/her DPM degree outside of waiting for a training program? Tell us all why podiatry is so great and why we should read these posts about how far podiatry has gone and how much a podiatrist can do without the caveat that there's only a limited amount of positions for a few DPM graduates who've followed this site and came to believe that podiatrists ALL have equal opportunities. Please, a little veracity goes a lot toward the credibility of your organization. Or, would you prefer to break apart my post line by line and argue each point as if it were some TV show with bickering politicians? Just tell us the truth about the opportunities, after all, what can I know? Where do I get my information? If I answered that I'd get a violation notice and be banned from the board. Since you've brought it up, where do YOU get YOUR information?

KF if your going to reply, just read the underlined words, the italic words are fillers (inefficient wording)

Maybe I should add this to my volunteer hours

 

[RockyIV]

You betcha. And there will be constant requests for donations to the APMA, your DPM school and this or that fund - Donate, donate, donate and then if you are a true believer and have been donating for years and have done well they will name a chair after you. Maybe even an entire dining room set. The YOU library at the podiatry school of your choice. And the band plays on.

My undergraduate institution hits me up for money all the time...donate, donate, donate. Does that mean I shouldn't have taken the time to get my Bachelor's degree?

 

[doctazero]

My undergraduate institution hits me up for money all the time...donate, donate, donate. Does that mean I shouldn't have taken the time to get my Bachelor's degree?

I am not trying to vitiate podiatry school or APMA donations, just curious as to where the funds go. The who's who of podiatry isn't really all that fascinating and the research and lifetime achievements of podiatrists doesn't make for a fascinating read in the expensive glossies.

My undergraduate institution hits me up for money too. A lot of money. They also provide detailed information as to where those funds will be used, including but not limited to scholarships, research projects, and references to publications of my fellow alumni as well as all sorts of benefits accompanying a sizable donation along the lines of annuities, charitable gift scholarships and very cool magazines. And I got a nifty T shirt too. Do you have a neat-O podiatry school T shirt? Maybe if they gave out T shirts they'd get some coinage. Yeah, a year or so ago my podiatry college wanted money to build out something. The letter said if I donated X amount of $ they would name a hall after me. And, if I donated more, they would change the name of the school to the ______College of Podiatric Medicine. I asked if the would change the name to the ________College of Medicine- They never got back to me. It would have been cool. If that happened our threads here would have really gone funky - Then again....eh- It's only just a thing. Everything has a way of falling into place. Podiatry isn't a bad thing to do, it's other podiatrists who will always give you a hard time - especially if you're doing well. You can have a fulfilling career and enjoy life WITHOUT competing with orthopedics or anyone else. There are many things which are not publishable, but there are people who know a few things they don't teach in ANY program. Find them. I've rambled enough, and I'll leave for now with this: Get a licensed in as many places as you can and start up where YOU want to live. Try and locate in one of the CHOICE states-The states with the broadest scope of practice and set up your own shop, and sublet space from other doctors- ENTs, Chiros, Plastic Surgeons, whatever. If you're personable, know your skill set and have some colleagues you can refer to for cases that might be outside of your comfort zone, things will work out fine. Oh yeah, find a few of the guys who did well back in the 80s - they're around and if you're forthright they'll help you get going. It may seem like a long road when you start out, but; anything can happen along the way-remain open to suggestions - there is NEVER only one way to do things.

 

[air bud]

for those of you wondering, "vitiate" means "to spoil or destroy the validity/efficiency of." If nothing else, doctazero helps expand our vocabulary, and for that we should be grateful. Yes, I did have to look that one up.

 

[347932]

Since you've brought it up, where do YOU get YOUR information?

I'm actively involved in the profession and get my information directly from the source including the APMA, the CPME, COTH, Some of the affiliate organizations, my work with multiple student organizations and the ear of some past presidents of the APMA and their constituents as well as some admins of most of the Podiatry Schools.

I ask the hard questions and when I'm not satisfied with answers, I push the issues by stimulating intense conversations that have led to some changes in our profession (for the better) and do my utmost to assure that my future colleagues succeed.

Your rhetoric is tiresome once again. Next thing you know you'll be telling me I'm posturing by lauding all the things I've done to stay active and questioning your lack of involvement and mostly your spread of inaccurate information to our young and influential future.

Now what in the world do you do again? Or am I going to get another one of your extremely expletive PMs again?

 

[Feli]

As a student, I can tell you that I have been reassured over and over again by our professors that....

"you are all going to receive the best F&A training in the country"

"No one will be able to match your expertise"

"the training today is so much better than the training I received"

"This is the best time to be entering podiatry"

etc, etc...

They teach the attitudes.

This is actually all true, but the catch that's omitted is "if you apply yourself." The training now is significantly better than it was 5, 10, esp 20, etc years ago. Sure, there were good residency programs then, but they were much fewer and further between. The main part that's changed is also the medical training aspect... a lot of programs have begun or moved to large teaching hospitals where you learn right alongside MDs and/or DOs. The awareness of what we can do is growing every day, and it's great, but change doesn't happen overnight. As was said, in any profession, each new generation should be stronger and even more capable than the previous. That's human evolution. If you can set the egos aside, then the teachers realize that if they do their job well, the recipient student/resident will know basically everything they were taught... plus what they read and research on their own. That's the beauty of it.

Honestly, there are a ton of good opportunities for podiatrists today. There are more options than ever for hospital, multispecialty, or ortho practice. Those opportunities are still an emerging market, and the demand from DPMs might still exceed the positions in the short term... you have to work for em if that's what you want. The more common and classic route of private practice (while tougher with new coding, EMR and reimbursement reqs) is definitely still alive and well as probably the best way to earn a living and have control of your career.

While private practice isn't always the glamour of ankle fusions and calc fractures every day, it does pay the bills. Some people need flatfoot recon, and many just want their nails cut, callus trimmed, and a bit of education on shoes or insoles that can make them more comfortable each day. General surgeons do I&D butt abscesses, orthos do no-pay femur GSWs at 3am, and internal medicine does consults for herpes. You take the good with the bad. Apply yourself in your training, stay up to date, and give the patients what they need.

 

[dbkwave]

I'm actually surprised that hospitals would want to exclude any docs these days, as they're financially hurting. A buddy of mine is an O.R. nurse and he said that when the economy tanked, elective surgeries at the hospital dried up and pretty much all they schedule are trauma and total joints.

Locally our DPMs do somewhere around 30-50 elective cases per month total, mostly forefoot, and the surgery center has catered to us to capture this niche. Meanwhile our hospital has cultivated a hostile environment, and as a result I don't think any DPM willingly schedules there.

I've heard through the grapevine that this sentiment extends beyond podiatry, and other specialties feel the same way about our hospital. If you figure that O.R. fees are $3000+ per case, you can guess how much lost business that adds up to.

No matter how you look at the situation, it is best to have the highest level of certification possible. This will hopefully protect you from future changes in how the surgical podiatrist is credentialed. Overall, I have found that Podiatrist appropriately evaluate their peers via the ABPS certification system and that being Foot certified alone is sufficient as long as you can prove that you have had rearfoot training and practice within the scope of ones training based on residency and post surgical logs. The RRA certification is more likely to be used as a tool to rebuttal claims of the orthopedic departments that would like to claim that one does not have equivalent training to a foot and ankle orthopedic. For example, I have to ask permission to perform an Achilles tendon lengthening. THe chairman of orthopedics is a foot and ankle orthopedic and will not sign the paperwork. Today, I received my certification in RRA. I feel much more empowered than I did yesterday. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[Creflo]

I am about to enter the 3rd year of residency, and my program is not planning to offer a rearfoot certification. I possibly could transfer to another program that does offer the rearfoot certification, but that program would offer less surgical training in the 3rd year than my current program. I have met all numbers requirements for forefoot and rearfoot. I personally feel that most of us will be doing mostly forefoot work, and unless you do a lot of rearfoot, you probably shouldn't be doing it that much. So, is it better to get better training in the 3rd year without the rearfoot certificate, or is it better to go for the certificate at the expense of more (needed) training? You never know, but I see myself as being more likely to become forefoot certified than both forefoot and rearfoot certified, even if I get the rearfoot certificate.

 

[PADPM]

Just a quick correction. There is NO such thing as,"forefoot" certified. It is foot, and as a result, it includes the entire foot, not just the "forefoot". It's really not just a matter of semantics. I was an examiner for the oral portion of the ABPS exam for many years, and questions or knowledge was not ever limited to only the "forefoot".

 

[JewOnThis]

I am about to enter the 3rd year of residency, and my program is not planning to offer a rearfoot certification. I possibly could transfer to another program that does offer the rearfoot certification, but that program would offer less surgical training in the 3rd year than my current program. I have met all numbers requirements for forefoot and rearfoot. I personally feel that most of us will be doing mostly forefoot work, and unless you do a lot of rearfoot, you probably shouldn't be doing it that much. So, is it better to get better training in the 3rd year without the rearfoot certificate, or is it better to go for the certificate at the expense of more (needed) training? You never know, but I see myself as being more likely to become forefoot certified than both forefoot and rearfoot certified, even if I get the rearfoot certificate.

Unless you have a family or other issues that prevent you from relocating, I would transfer out.

Out of curiosity, are you at one of those Southeastern programs?

 

[dtrack22]

So the program just doesn't want to go through the trouble of applying for RRA cert through the CPME? I feel like now would be the time to do it with the CPME in a position/mindset to expedite application approvals and site visits. Not to mention I would think the RRA designation would make your program appear more desirable to students, on paper at least.

 

[ldsrmdude]

I am about to enter the 3rd year of residency, and my program is not planning to offer a rearfoot certification. I possibly could transfer to another program that does offer the rearfoot certification, but that program would offer less surgical training in the 3rd year than my current program. I have met all numbers requirements for forefoot and rearfoot. I personally feel that most of us will be doing mostly forefoot work, and unless you do a lot of rearfoot, you probably shouldn't be doing it that much. So, is it better to get better training in the 3rd year without the rearfoot certificate, or is it better to go for the certificate at the expense of more (needed) training? You never know, but I see myself as being more likely to become forefoot certified than both forefoot and rearfoot certified, even if I get the rearfoot certificate.

I think from previous posts that you're headed into the military after residency. Do they care one way or another as far as rearfoot certification?

 

[TheTruthAndMore]

Only people who care about RRA Cert are your colleagues trying to keep you out of "their" hospital. True story.

 

[sinustarsi]

What kind of questions do they ask on the hind foot or RRA boards? I also hear that the pass rate is very low after you submit your cases. How valid is that theory?It may take us close to 7 yrs to submit the cases but I don't know how beneficial it will be for private practice.

 

[newankle]

What kind of questions do they ask on the hind foot or RRA boards? I also hear that the pass rate is very low after you submit your cases. How valid is that theory?It may take us close to 7 yrs to submit the cases but I don't know how beneficial it will be for private practice.

I took and passed both parts at the same time on the first attempt. I accrued enough cases in 2 years for both. I thought the questions/testing for RRA was more complex than Foot but it should be. However I thought the RRA portion was easier for me because I do much more RRA than Foot surgery. I thought the most stressful part was the case submission and not the testing. I know many friends/classmates however that are smart and failed. The key is knowing how to take the test/play the game. I would also not put it off and wait to take it. Take it as soon as you have the numbers. If you have the cases I'd definitely sit for RRA and not be satisfied with just Foot certification.

 

[TheTruthAndMore]

...I'd definitely sit for RRA and not be satisfied with just Foot certification.

Whaaaa dafuq????

LMAO, JUST a lowly Foot Cert here. Very happy with myself and what I do in private practice. Never denied privileging for even the most complex RF stuff except Ankle Replacement, and I have no interest. You can have those, pal.

Condescending much??

Guys like this are the type to keep us lowly foot cert people off staff at his hospital so he can corner the market. Pffft...exactly what I was talking about.

No hospital that I know of requires RRA for surgical privileges unless guys like you push for it.

Thanks for help on that. I hesitate to call you a colleague with the drivel you just posted.

 

[newankle]

Whaaaa dafuq????

LMAO, JUST a lowly Foot Cert here. Very happy with myself and what I do in private practice. Never denied privileging for even the most complex RF stuff except Ankle Replacement, and I have no interest. You can have those, pal.

Condescending much??

Guys like this are the type to keep us lowly foot cert people off staff at his hospital so he can corner the market. Pffft...exactly what I was talking about.

No hospital that I know of requires RRA for surgical privileges unless guys like you push for it.

Thanks for help on that. I hesitate to call you a colleague with the drivel you just posted.

I don't try to keep "guys like you" down. I'M the guy my state association asks to help them get more priviledges/increase scope of practice based on what I do. I'M the guy that's giving up my weekend with my family this weekend to train other older podiatrists arthroscopy techniques FOR FREE. I'M the guy who's fighting the state board to allow podiatrists to supervise PA's. I'M that guy. YOU'RE that guy thats sits back and complains. I'm sorry if you were offended by my post. My point was that the boards are not that bad and if you have the cases to sit for RRA then you should do it. The more training and certifications you have the better.

 

[TheTruthAndMore]

I don't try to keep "guys like you" down. I'M the guy my state association asks to help them get more priviledges/increase scope of practice based on what I do. I'M the guy that's giving up my weekend with my family this weekend to train other older podiatrists arthroscopy techniques FOR FREE. I'M the guy who's fighting the state board to allow podiatrists to supervise PA's. I'M that guy. YOU'RE that guy thats sits back and complains. I'm sorry if you were offended by my post. My point was that the boards are not that bad and if you have the cases to sit for RRA then you should do it. The more training and certifications you have the better.

Yeah?????

I do and have done PLENTY at the state and national level FOR FREE too, pal. For hot shots like you to have a shot. Pat yourself on the back a little more. I've been at this a LONG time. Prolly longer than you. I don't complain. At all. Until a loud mouth puts me down. Lots of young loud mouth hot shots come and go. LOTS.

Calm down. I call it like I see yo. Your comments was offensive. Period.

 

[Textbookversion]

Yeah?????

I do and have done PLENTY at the state and national level FOR FREE too, pal. For hot shots like you to have a shot. Pat yourself on the back a little more. I've been at this a LONG time. Prolly longer than you. I don't complain. At all. Until a loud mouth puts me down. Lots of young loud mouth hot shots come and go. LOTS.

Calm down. I call it like I see yo. Your comments was offensive. Period.

I just don't understand how so many people are confident doing ankle stuff with so little education. 2 years of residency isn't really comparable to the 6 of a F/A ortho.

 

[TheTruthAndMore]

I just don't understand how so many people are confident doing ankle stuff with so little education. 2 years of residency isn't really comparable to the 6 of a F/A ortho.

LMAO. I did 3 years of residency.

Can of worms alert!!!!

Pods do MUCH MORE foot and ankle surgery in residency than any Ortho will see in their whole careers. And according to the AMA, pods are teaching Orthos foot and ankle stuff. Chew on that. .

 

[NatCh]

Whaaaa dafuq????

LMAO, JUST a lowly Foot Cert here. Very happy with myself and what I do in private practice. Never denied privileging for even the most complex RF stuff except Ankle Replacement, and I have no interest. You can have those, pal.

Condescending much??

Guys like this are the type to keep us lowly foot cert people off staff at his hospital so he can corner the market. Pffft...exactly what I was talking about.

No hospital that I know of requires RRA for surgical privileges unless guys like you push for it.

Thanks for help on that. I hesitate to call you a colleague with the drivel you just posted.

I didn't take newankle's statements that way.

 

[ldsrmdude]

Let's keep things civil please. If you feel a member is violating our terms of service, please use the report post feature. If a specific member is bothering you, I would encourage you to use the ignore feature. If there are any questions, feel free to ask me or any SDN moderator.

 

[TheTruthAndMore]

Let's keep things civil please. If you feel a member is violating our terms of service, please use the report post feature. If a specific member is bothering you, I would encourage you to use the ignore feature. If there are any questions, feel free to ask me or any SDN moderator.

No problem, cat.

How aboutcha delete that ignorant comment made by the med student up there about our expertise as a WHOLE profession.

That would be real swell. Thanks.

 

[PADPM]

I didn't take newankle's statements that way.

Ditto. We need young, well trained and talented docs to keep moving the profession forward. As long as they don't forget their roots and the sacrifices those before them made to open those doors.

Respect-good
Cockiness and arrogance-bad

I personally had no problem with newankle's post.

 

[TheTruthAndMore]

<------- Respectfully Cocky and Arrogant

True story.