Really stumped! Please help!

[ezsanche]

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how to register as a post-bac student. How does one go about gaining admission to a university as a post-bac student?

I think you have to sign up as a non degree seeking student.

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[calimed214]

Not sure how it is in Florida, but in CA both UC and Cal State schools have Extension or Open University programs where individuals not enrolled at the institution can take on-campus classes depending on space availability. I would call whatever school you're interested in and ask if they offer such a program, and if not, how you could otherwise enroll as a non-degree seeking student.

 

[J ROD]

I think you have to sign up as a non degree seeking student.

They would not give me financial aid that way so I had to enroll like I was trying to get another degree.

 

[fahimaz7]

What school is this?

MCG.

Every year our waitlist moves like this..

3.96/31
3.92/30
3.89/33
3.85/29

etc.

 

[Food]

Thanks guys, I'm looking through the AAMC list of non-degree post-bac certificate programs. I've seen a few but I'm not really sure what to do with all these options. For example, there is:

http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/studentservices/prehealth/postba

There are two tracks within the Program, one for students with little or no science preparation (Postbaccalaureate Science Preparatory Program—PBSPT). The second track is for students who wish to enhance their academic record (Postbaccalaureate Science Enrichment Program – PBSET).

Would it be better to do an actual set program like this? It's full-time and about a year long and from what I understand it would all factor into my uGPA. Or should I try some of my state schools for the extension thing you guys are talking about? In that case, I think it wouldn't be as part of a full-time program, but I'm not too sure.

Also, why do people do SMPs if a post-bac is what you need to raise uGPA? It seems that an SMP gives you a grad GPA that isn't as helpful as raising your uGPA since you can never shake off a bad uGPA...

 

[calimed214]

Thanks guys, I'm looking through the AAMC list of non-degree post-bac certificate programs. I've seen a few but I'm not really sure what to do with all these options. For example, there is:

http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/studentservices/prehealth/postba

There are two tracks within the Program, one for students with little or no science preparation (Postbaccalaureate Science Preparatory Program—PBSPT). The second track is for students who wish to enhance their academic record (Postbaccalaureate Science Enrichment Program – PBSET).

Would it be better to do an actual set program like this? It's full-time and about a year long and from what I understand it would all factor into my uGPA. Or should I try some of my state schools for the extension thing you guys are talking about? In that case, I think it wouldn't be as part of a full-time program, but I'm not too sure.

Also, why do people do SMPs if a post-bac is what you need to raise uGPA? It seems that an SMP gives you a grad GPA that isn't as helpful as raising your uGPA since you can never shake off a bad uGPA...

If I were in your shoes, I would first figure out what my target GPA would be and how many units I need to get there. If I need full-time classes for an entire year to get me to my goal, and I'm able to make that kind of a time & financial commitment, then I would probably do a formal post-bacc like the one you described above. I would double check to make sure that the courses in the program aren't just repeats of what you've already taken in undergrad though.

Oftentimes people go for the open university route because they're unable to make a full-time commitment due to employment or whatever else, if they don't need a full year's worth of classes to boost their uGPA, or if they can't afford the cost of a formal program. It is more difficult (although not impossible) to set up a full-time course load through open university simply because everything is on a space-availability basis. So if formally enrolled students in the university want a class, they have first dibs, and you get whatever is left over. There are also Extension programs where classes are taught solely to non-degree students, so there is no fighting with degree seekers for space. But class offerings are usually slimmer & there is less flexibility in scheduling.

SMP programs, from what I understand, are for those whose undergrad GPAs are pretty abysmal and not gonna budge by much without taking a gazillion classes. I don't think you need to go that route with a 3.3/3.4.

 

[flip26]

SMP programs, from what I understand, are for those whose undergrad GPAs are pretty abysmal and not gonna budge by much without taking a gazillion classes. I don't think you need to go that route with a 3.3/3.4.

Actually, a GPA of 3.3 or so is in the sweet spot for SMPs for people who otherwise have a good MCAT score.

And the best SMPs are ones that offer linkages to med schools.

The UG post bacc route to raise a stubborn GPA is a long, lonely process. You can spend 1 to 2 years full time trying to raise a low GPA, and every time you make something less than an A or A-, you stand still or lose ground...if you are trying to raise a 3.3, for instance, a B+ gets you nowhere, and a B digs the hole a little deeper...and if you screw up and make less than a B, you are going in reverse...

 

[fahimaz7]

I don't think you need to go that route with a 3.3/3.4.

A 3.3 GPA is extremely low, unless you majored in Japanese and Aerospace engineering.

Low GPA's tell the committee that you're lazy an unmotivated. Do you really think that a 3.3 is a good GPA? 20,000 people matriculate into medical school each year, and the Average is well above that mark.

 

[Food]

A 3.3 GPA is extremely low, unless you majored in Japanese and Aerospace engineering.

Low GPA's tell the committee that you're lazy an unmotivated. Do you really think that a 3.3 is a good GPA? 20,000 people matriculate into medical school each year, and the Average is well above that mark.

So you're saying I should do an SMP, then.

 

[fahimaz7]

So you're saying I should do an SMP, then.

No. What I suggested earlier was that you continue to take classes at your local university. String together a year of A's and it shouldn't be a problem.

I also said that you should get in this year.



I would stay the hell away from a SMP, unless it was the ONLY way that I could get into a medical school (some guarantee admissions if you meet a certain level of academic excellence). It's way too much money.

 

[Food]

No. What I suggested earlier was that you continue to take classes at your local university. String together a year of A's and it shouldn't be a problem.

I also said that you should get in this year.



I would stay the hell away from a SMP, unless it was the ONLY way that I could get into a medical school (some guarantee admissions if you meet a certain level of academic excellence). It's way too much money.

Okay, that makes sense. For the record, just about every admissions office I was able to talk to regarding last year's app said that an SMP wouldn't make a huge difference. Some, including REL at UCF said pretty much what you said - "stay the hell away and do some post-bac".

 

[ezsanche]

what is this SMP that you guys are talking about?

 

[Food]

what is this SMP that you guys are talking about?

special masters programs:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=346106

 

[calimed214]

A 3.3 GPA is extremely low, unless you majored in Japanese and Aerospace engineering.

Low GPA's tell the committee that you're lazy an unmotivated. Do you really think that a 3.3 is a good GPA? 20,000 people matriculate into medical school each year, and the Average is well above that mark.

I didn't say a 3.3 was a good GPA. I said I didn't think a 3.3 was "abysmal" enough to go the SMP route. SMPs, in my mind, should be used as a last resort after post-bac and other measures don't work. As flip mentioned, yes the post-bac route can be long and frustrating -- any B can set you back. I did post-bac myself for a year to boost my GPA, so I know how it goes. But a collection of A's after a 3.3/3.4 undergrad can still make a lasting impression and is still the less risky and less costly route versus an SMP. An SMP is no cake walk and the ones with linkages require you to outperform almost everyone else there. And everyone in an SMP is out to succeed because they know it's their last shot. There are no guarantees. It's a stressful, high-risk situation and a post-bacc, in my opinion, would be the better choice if given the option.

 

[J ROD]

Yeah, I think the postbac would help to give you the strong upward trend. I still think you have a shot this year, but I would start taking classes in the Spring just in case.....

 

[Revilla]

Thanks guys, I'm looking through the AAMC list of non-degree post-bac certificate programs. I've seen a few but I'm not really sure what to do with all these options. For example, there is:

http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/studentservices/prehealth/postba

There are two tracks within the Program, one for students with little or no science preparation (Postbaccalaureate Science Preparatory Program—PBSPT). The second track is for students who wish to enhance their academic record (Postbaccalaureate Science Enrichment Program – PBSET).

Would it be better to do an actual set program like this? It's full-time and about a year long and from what I understand it would all factor into my uGPA. Or should I try some of my state schools for the extension thing you guys are talking about? In that case, I think it wouldn't be as part of a full-time program, but I'm not too sure.

Also, why do people do SMPs if a post-bac is what you need to raise uGPA? It seems that an SMP gives you a grad GPA that isn't as helpful as raising your uGPA since you can never shake off a bad uGPA...

People don't do SMPs to raise their GPA. They do it to prove that despite their poor undergrad GPA, they can handle med school classes. SMPs are usually first-year med school classes. If you ace them, you've made your point. If you do poorly, you've dug yourself a deep, deep hole, which is why some admissions people say to stay away from them. I have to agree. Do a post-bacc. It may not raise your undergrad GPA by that much, but post-bacc also has its own column on the application so med schools can see how well you did in it.

 

[Food]

I can't take any spring classes - I already graduated from my school and they offer virtually no post-bac options here. If I do a post-bac, I"ll have to do it in the summer/fall and re-apply for entry in fall 2012, right? This means I'll have to retake the MCAT since this one will expire.

 

[QofQuimica]

You're right about the Bs / Cs in pre-reqs, but I really did pick it up in all subsequent sciences. For example, I did make As in Bio 2, two Biochem courses, both P Chems, Inorganic, modern physics, etc. I even took grad level chem courses in organic and managed an A in 1 and a B in another. I realize that doesn't erase past mistakes or performances, but does it not help at all?

I asked the admissions dean, who does a lot of the screening for our adcom, about how the screeners would handle an applicant with your grade situation. The gist is that yes, the screeners would look at your individual classes. However, the downward trend during your last two years would cause them enough concern that they would very likely still screen you out anyway. Basically, I don't have any new advice to offer beyond what I already suggested about taking post bac classes. The dean agreed that your taking post bac classes is a good idea. It would allow you to show an upward GPA trend, and it would also reassure med schools that whatever problem was preventing you from doing well in school during your second half of college is now resolved.

 

[J ROD]

I can't take any spring classes - I already graduated from my school and they offer virtually no post-bac options here. If I do a post-bac, I"ll have to do it in the summer/fall and re-apply for entry in fall 2012, right? This means I'll have to retake the MCAT since this one will expire.

Try taking classes as a second bac....that's what I did once I figured out how to make it work...

 

[J ROD]

I asked the admissions dean, who does a lot of the screening for our adcom, about how the screeners would handle an applicant with your grade situation. The gist is that yes, the screeners would look at your individual classes. However, the downward trend during your last two years would cause them enough concern that they would very likely still screen you out anyway. Basically, I don't have any new advice to offer beyond what I already suggested about taking post bac classes. The dean agreed that your taking post bac classes is a good idea. It would allow you to show an upward GPA trend, and it would also reassure med schools that whatever problem was preventing you from doing well in school during your second half of college is now resolved.

I agree. You need to have that upward trend!! That's more than likely the red flag since everything else is decent. Plus, you could use the GPA raise too!!

 

[Food]

I asked the admissions dean, who does a lot of the screening for our adcom, about how the screeners would handle an applicant with your grade situation. The gist is that yes, the screeners would look at your individual classes. However, the downward trend during your last two years would cause them enough concern that they would very likely still screen you out anyway. Basically, I don't have any new advice to offer beyond what I already suggested about taking post bac classes. The dean agreed that your taking post bac classes is a good idea. It would allow you to show an upward GPA trend, and it would also reassure med schools that whatever problem was preventing you from doing well in school during your second half of college is now resolved.

Thanks for doing that! This looks like it's going to be a long road...I don't think I'll be in medical school for another 2 years if that is the case. I can't reapply for fall 2011 since I won't have any post-bac classes done. Let's just hope I can hit a 35+ again on the MCAT...

 

[calimed214]

Thanks for doing that! This looks like it's going to be a long road...I don't think I'll be in medical school for another 2 years if that is the case. I can't reapply for fall 2011 since I won't have any post-bac classes done. Let's just hope I can hit a 35+ again on the MCAT...

Thinking and planning ahead for possible outcomes is good, but you're talking like the cycle is already over. Still awhile to go yet. Stay realistic, but not hopeless.

 

[Food]

Thinking and planning ahead for possible outcomes is good, but you're talking like the cycle is already over. Still awhile to go yet. Stay realistic, but not hopeless.

thanks...but having just 1 interview and 1 school to depend on does scare me a lot....

 

[calimed214]

thanks...but having just 1 interview and 1 school to depend on does scare me a lot....

You still haven't heard back from a number of schools that you've applied to. Until there's an actual 'rejection', the possibility of an interview is still out there. Just as an example: during last cycle, I completed most of my secondaries around Aug/Sept. I didn't receive interview invites from 2 of my state schools until much later. I think one was in Jan and the other was in March. Although the cycle ultimately didn't work out for me, I know of people who were accepted during the interview sessions that I attended. And it's like.. that coulda been me, you know? So it's definitely possible to still get late invites & acceptances. Keep in mind what you'd want to do in case it doesn't work out, but there is still hope.

 

[Food]

You still haven't heard back from a number of schools that you've applied to. Until there's an actual 'rejection', the possibility of an interview is still out there. Just as an example: during last cycle, I completed most of my secondaries around Aug/Sept. I didn't receive interview invites from 2 of my state schools until much later. I think one was in Jan and the other was in March. Although the cycle ultimately didn't work out for me, I know of people who were accepted during the interview session that I attended. So it's definitely possible to still get late invites & acceptances.

For the state schools that interviewed you later in the cycle, around what time did they invite you? Also, did you try sending updates and stuff?

 

[calimed214]

For the state schools that interviewed you later in the cycle, around what time did they invite you? Also, did you try sending updates and stuff?

One invited me I think in January for a January date. And another invited me in February for an April date. The only updates I sent were after my interviews.

 

[calimed214]

But if you haven't heard from schools by December and have extra activities to update them about, I would definitely send them updates. I think it could only help.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thanks for doing that! This looks like it's going to be a long road...I don't think I'll be in medical school for another 2 years if that is the case. I can't reapply for fall 2011 since I won't have any post-bac classes done. Let's just hope I can hit a 35+ again on the MCAT...

Well, you should keep going with your remaining apps this year, and also start preparing to strengthen your academic record for a future attempt. Getting into med school is competitive enough that everyone should have a plan B. Applying to med school is expensive and time-consuming enough that you should make sure your app is as competitive as possible before you go through it again, if you do need to go through it again.

You might also want to come check out the nontrad forum. You may feel like you'll be "old" starting med school in your mid-twenties if things don't work out this year, but you're a baby by our standards.