But what REALLY matters?

[love_of_lox]

Let's help each other.

The application process is long and complex (understatement of the century), and everything that goes into it matters. But, as a jaded reapplicant, I'm struggling to figure out what REALLY matters. How can we most effectively signal our competence as applicants? It sounds cold, I know -- please trust that my motives boil down to wanting to help people, and that MD/DO is a lifelong dream.

Every program is different, but is there any kind of consensus about the weight of each part of the process/requirement? Also, beyond the obvious, what REALLY goes into admissions decisions? What weights do our interviews/stats have vs considerations like "building a class" or recruiting to increase diversity? (diversity is wonderful -- just trying to pull back the curtain) Are there any screening methods besides MCAT, GPA, and academic/criminal record? What's unexpected or surprising about the process?

For reference: 518, 3.8ish, prestigious international research fellowship recipient, thousands of hours as a scribe, about 150 hours of nonclinical volunteering.

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[acstylin]

Maybe you’re shedding light on your problem and you do not realize it. By asking that question, you’re showing your intentions are to impress the adcoms enough to issue you an acceptance. “Tell me what you want to see and I’ll show it to you.” The secret is this: there is no secret. Adcoms want to see you take something- anything you’re passionate about- and run with it. Make a difference with it. Make your impact felt and when you move on, that organization should feel the loss. They want to see passionate people who went into the world, became leaders, and made a positive difference in something important to them. If you’re hunting for the magic item, you won’t find it. If you don’t know what it is yet, that’s what gap years are for.

My study partner was a hula dancer who toured the world sharing the Polynesian culture. One of my buddies was a middle school teacher. A girl I know was a volunteer in an African HIV clinic. Someone else spent a couple years with the Peace Corp. I’m just an older non-trad. I joined the wrestling team and became one of the oldest wrestlers to qualify for the club level National Championships. What do we have in common? Nothing really. We each just joined something we cared about and worked hard to make a difference.

 

[Goro]

Let's help each other.

The application process is long and complex (understatement of the century), and everything that goes into it matters. But, as a jaded reapplicant, I'm struggling to figure out what REALLY matters. How can we most effectively signal our competence as applicants? It sounds cold, I know -- please trust that my motives boil down to wanting to help people, and that MD/DO is a lifelong dream.

Every program is different, but is there any kind of consensus about the weight of each part of the process/requirement? Also, beyond the obvious, what REALLY goes into admissions decisions? What weights do our interviews/stats have vs considerations like "building a class" or recruiting to increase diversity? (diversity is wonderful -- just trying to pull back the curtain) Are there any screening methods besides MCAT, GPA, and academic/criminal record? What's unexpected or surprising about the process?

For reference: 518, 3.8ish, prestigious international research fellowship recipient, thousands of hours as a scribe, about 150 hours of nonclinical volunteering.

One of the things many medical schools look for its service to others less fortunate than yourself. Your 150 hours of non-clinical volunteering is pretty much cookie cutter, and since you deserve to aim high, you have to be high.
get in over 250 hours.

 

[Goro]

You don't need to be a Nobel Prize winner oh, just do what you love and love what you do

 

[Osteosaur]

Might be missing clinical volunteering and more non-clinical hours. Longetivity of activity can also help.

What was your school list?
How many times did you apply?
What assets did you add between applications?
Did you change your essays? One big bit of feedback I had gotten was, for a challenge essay, being sure to show how i had implemented what I learned from my 'challenge.'

For me I beat my head against the wall for years and finally added 200 non-clinical volunteering on top of 400 clinical volunteering along with new essays, and a shot at DO, and it paid off.

Lay out your app in detail and it might help.

Don't forget about the actual presentation of your app. You might be burrying good stuff beneath bad presentation.

 

[Stranger00120]

For me, it was a 1 year master's with a 4.0 and completely new letters. I added additional shadowing, did research about a subject I'm passionate about and could talk about in interviews (didn't publish, but would like to in the future), additional volunteering with an underserved community, and a completely changed up my essays. This was my fifth cycle, and I got 3 DO acceptances and 1 waitlist out of my 4 interviews.

 

[Osteosaur]

Ultimately you really need fresh eyes on your application. Even if you put work into checking a box like "volunteering", or "research" if presented the wrong way its useless. The only information they truly know is what is in the app they get. A great experience can easily look like garbage compared to someone's "was president of the premed club and once organized a pizza party where an alumn medical student and the premed advisor talked" because they hit all the notes with the right kind of essay.

 

[Blueprint Med School]

But then, some applicants get trapped in the pit where they have stellar stats and sub-par extracurriculars, which causes them to get rejected by top schools and yield-protected at mid-low tier schools. It's interesting when you see these applicants with incredible stats be refused an interview from low tier med schools while another applicant with similar extracurriculars and lower stats might be granted the A.

Kevin W, MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

 

[love_of_lox]

Maybe you’re shedding light on your problem and you do not realize it. By asking that question, you’re showing your intentions are to impress the adcoms enough to issue you an acceptance. “Tell me what you want to see and I’ll show it to you.” The secret is this: there is no secret. Adcoms want to see you take something- anything you’re passionate about- and run with it. Make a difference with it. Make your impact felt and when you move on, that organization should feel the loss. They want to see passionate people who went into the world, became leaders, and made a positive difference in something important to them. If you’re hunting for the magic item, you won’t find it. If you don’t know what it is yet, that’s what gap years are for.

My study partner was a hula dancer who toured the world sharing the Polynesian culture. One of my buddies was a middle school teacher. A girl I know was a volunteer in an African HIV clinic. Someone else spent a couple years with the Peace Corp. I’m just an older non-trad. I joined the wrestling team and became one of the oldest wrestlers to qualify for the club level National Championships. What do we have in common? Nothing really. We each just joined something we cared about and worked hard to make a difference.

That's exactly how I approached the 2020-2021 cycle, and although I believe that letting your passions motivate you to take action is excellent advice, it wasn't enough. I don't want to play the game, but I would like to be able to recognize it, and it's absolutely afoot.

Although the idea of a "magic item" is, as you point out, naïve, so is trusting in revealing your inspirations, passions, and dreams without a very solid understanding of the ins and the outs of the process. I want to represent myself sincerely and enthusiastically, and I also want to know more about how the sausage is made. Looking for some insight doesn't strike me as superficial or devious: Aren't we supposed to interrogate the process and ourselves, and learn whatever we can?

 

[love_of_lox]

One of the things many medical schools look for its service to others less fortunate than yourself. Your 150 hours of non-clinical volunteering is pretty much cookie cutter, and since you deserve to aim high, you have to be high.
get in over 250 hours.

Thank you -- solid advice.

This cycle, between Meals on Wheels and the Cascades Carnivore Project, I've more than doubled my nonclinical volunteer hours, and most of that increase comes from Meals on Wheels (service to the less fortunate). I have 350+ hours of free MCAT tutoring with ESL students as well, but it may be heavily discounted if I can't avoid filling in "self" as the reference and organization.

Meals on Wheels has been an unexpectedly positive experience, and I have an honest investment in the people along my route. Most of the patients that I interact with as a scribe are 50+, and we refer to hospice services at least once per month. I'm exploring options for adding in-person hospice volunteering, and I'm excited to start, odd though it may seem.

If I now have about 400 hours of nonclinical volunteering and can include hospice volunteering in update letters/interviews, have I made reasonable improvements? I also plan to switch from individual LORs to a committee LOR, I've added an MD LOR and LORs from Meals on Wheels and the scribing company that I work for, and I'm submitting the primary in mid-June.

 

[love_of_lox]

Might be missing clinical volunteering and more non-clinical hours. Longetivity of activity can also help.

What was your school list?
How many times did you apply?
What assets did you add between applications?
Did you change your essays? One big bit of feedback I had gotten was, for a challenge essay, being sure to show how i had implemented what I learned from my 'challenge.'

For me I beat my head against the wall for years and finally added 200 non-clinical volunteering on top of 400 clinical volunteering along with new essays, and a shot at DO, and it paid off.

Lay out your app in detail and it might help.

Don't forget about the actual presentation of your app. You might be burrying good stuff beneath bad presentation.

Wonderful and helpful from start to finish; thank you.

I've been working with Meals on Wheels for almost a year, and I'm also at nearly a year of service with the Cascades Carnivore Project. I'm hoping that both adding more hours and demonstrating a lasting commitment will make a difference. Plus, 350+ hours of free MCAT tutoring to ESL exam takers. Looking for more clinical volunteering, but there's a limit to how much more I can add -- got bills to pay.

My school list was shorter than it would have been in a perfect world, but I have some location-related constraints. I'm adding DO this cycle and aiming for 15 - 20 programs in total.

Assets: doubled volunteering duration and trying currently to add another volunteer experience. A few more thousands of hours as a scribe?

Working on rewriting everything now, but honestly, I'm a little stuck. Except for the fact that I feel about 50% more heartbroken, my life hasn't changed dramatically. More interested in elder care, though (Meals on Wheels with some meaningful interactions, beloved grandmother approaching 91 y/o).

Your suggestions are gold -- could I possibly PM you to discuss?

 

[love_of_lox]

But then, some applicants get trapped in the pit where they have stellar stats and sub-par extracurriculars, which causes them to get rejected by top schools and yield-protected at mid-low tier schools. It's interesting when you see these applicants with incredible stats be refused an interview from low tier med schools while another applicant with similar extracurriculars and lower stats might be granted the A.

Kevin W, MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

Interesting. I have good leadership activities from undergrad, and I've been working on adding to my volunteering hours. I appreciate your perspective.

 

[love_of_lox]

Ultimately you really need fresh eyes on your application. Even if you put work into checking a box like "volunteering", or "research" if presented the wrong way its useless. The only information they truly know is what is in the app they get. A great experience can easily look like garbage compared to someone's "was president of the premed club and once organized a pizza party where an alumn medical student and the premed advisor talked" because they hit all the notes with the right kind of essay.

I appreciate your advice -- thanks!

Hmm. I think that I'm a strong writer, and my PS, activity descriptions, and secondaries were all filtered through my premed advisor and 5+ other applicants. But you're right: maybe I'm not highlighting the right qualities. Could I convince you to to review my PS once finished?

No pizza parties with alumns. Dang it -- why didn't I think of that?

 

[love_of_lox]

For me, it was a 1 year master's with a 4.0 and completely new letters. I added additional shadowing, did research about a subject I'm passionate about and could talk about in interviews (didn't publish, but would like to in the future), additional volunteering with an underserved community, and a completely changed up my essays. This was my fifth cycle, and I got 3 DO acceptances and 1 waitlist out of my 4 interviews.

Wow -- congratulations. Pretty sure that I can't replicate your success, but I'm so happy that you've made it.

 

[Goro]

Thank you -- solid advice.

This cycle, between Meals on Wheels and the Cascades Carnivore Project, I've more than doubled my nonclinical volunteer hours, and most of that increase comes from Meals on Wheels (service to the less fortunate). I have 350+ hours of free MCAT tutoring with ESL students as well, but it may be heavily discounted if I can't avoid filling in "self" as the reference and organization.

Meals on Wheels has been an unexpectedly positive experience, and I have an honest investment in the people along my route. Most of the patients that I interact with as a scribe are 50+, and we refer to hospice services at least once per month. I'm exploring options for adding in-person hospice volunteering, and I'm excited to start, odd though it may seem.

If I now have about 400 hours of nonclinical volunteering and can include hospice volunteering in update letters/interviews, have I made reasonable improvements? I also plan to switch from individual LORs to a committee LOR, I've added an MD LOR and LORs from Meals on Wheels and the scribing company that I work for, and I'm submitting the primary in mid-June.

Yes!

 

[Stranger00120]

Working on rewriting everything now, but honestly, I'm a little stuck. Except for the fact that I feel about 50% more heartbroken, my life hasn't changed dramatically. More interested in elder care, though (Meals on Wheels with some meaningful interactions, beloved grandmother approaching 91 y/o).

I think you just hit on how to change the personal statement. Did you write about an interest in elder care when you wrote your personal statement this time? If that's the population that you think you want to serve as a physician and you can tell your story that way I think it can help. When I started having success was when I started making my PS more about others and how I saw myself serving the specific populations that inspire my passion. What stories can you tell about wanting to care for the elderly? What inspiration can you draw?

 

[Stranger00120]

Wow -- congratulations. Pretty sure that I can't replicate your success, but I'm so happy that you've made it.

Thanks! I think part of my success might have been that I was crazy enough to keep reapplying, but I'm really excited about starting med school.

 

[love_of_lox]

Thanks! I think part of my success might have been that I was crazy enough to keep reapplying, but I'm really excited about starting med school.

Sometimes a bit of crazy pays off. 😂 Again, congratulations.

 

[love_of_lox]

I think you just hit on how to change the personal statement. Did you write about an interest in elder care when you wrote your personal statement this time? If that's the population that you think you want to serve as a physician and you can tell your story that way I think it can help. When I started having success was when I started making my PS more about others and how I saw myself serving the specific populations that inspire my passion. What stories can you tell about wanting to care for the elderly? What inspiration can you draw?

It's a good idea (and, actually, I broke ground on a first draft last week), but I have some concerns: this interest is fairly recent, and although I have some "evidence" (stories) to back it up, I'm afraid that it may seem fickle or shallow. I really appreciate the suggestion, though, and I'll give it a try. 😊

 

[love_of_lox]

Yes!

Alright. Very emphatic and reassuring -- thank you! 👍 I'll continue to add volunteer hours, especially with those organizations whose missions I'm most passionate about.