Really stumped! Please help!

[Food]

Would it be better to re-take the C classes? I don't think my school will let me do this, if I'm able to somehow re-enroll. Would it be worthwhile taking classes like Microbio, Genetics, Parasitology, etc? Those are classes I never took since I was a chem. major.

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[Pet of the Week]

You don't have to take them at the same school. Find a cheap state school.

 

[Food]

You don't have to take them at the same school. Find a cheap state school.

I already go to a cheap state school

 

[calimed214]

I have 2 C's on my transcript in pre-req classes, and I didnt end up retaking either because I didn't want to relive Organic chem hell again. I just took a lot of extra classes in other subjects and aced them. I think it's up to you.

 

[fahimaz7]

I already go to a cheap state school

I would continue to take classes in relevant fields of science. The classes that you mentioned will be a great addition to your application, as well as keep your mind sharp and help you once you get to medical school.

 

[faith2]

Food I think your numbers are great the MCAT score should over shadow the GPA. I think it is something wrong with the LOR or personal statement or experience. For you I think Carib will be okay because through your MCAT abilities I think you would do well on the Boards and come back and get a good residency spot. applying as a third time would be red flags to adcoms because with your stats they would want to know as well why you were not accepted already. I will send you some positive energy

its official class of 2014

 

[Pet of the Week]

I already go to a cheap state school

In that case, just do the upper level courses you mentioned. I think you will get in somewhere. There are a lot of schools in your state. Lucky.

 

[Pet of the Week]

In that case, just do the upper level courses you mentioned. I think you will get in somewhere. There are a lot of schools in your state. Lucky.

In fact, there are two good osteopathic schools.... Not too late to apply to those. Would you really go Caribbean before DO?

 

[Food]

Well guys....it's not the letters from what my adviser said...any other ideas? I feel this is a mystery...

 

[Food]

In fact, there are two good osteopathic schools.... Not too late to apply to those. Would you really go Caribbean before DO?

I'm really double minded. I feel so lost.

 

[dingyibvs]

Well guys....it's not the letters from what my adviser said...any other ideas? I feel this is a mystery...

Maybe it's the essays? You can send me some of our common schools' essays, and I can send you some of mine.

 

[calimed214]

I'm really double minded. I feel so lost.

Why don't you apply DO as long as you're not too strapped for cash? It's not too late. Even though you're unsure of whether or not you want to go that route, I think it's a good idea to have that option available to you just in case. It's what I'm doing.

 

[Pet of the Week]

I'm really double minded. I feel so lost.

Nova seems very allopathic-ish as far as the curriculum is concerned. However, they will teach you some strange things in OMT your first year. Don't worry about whether or not you can see the logic behind it. Sometimes there may not be any, and if you don't like it, you won't have to use it when you are a doctor anyway. Think of OMT as an extra healing tool you get to learn at an osteopathic school. You can get into an allopathic residency from this school easily as long as your board scores are good. You shouldn't have a problem given your MCAT.

Lecom-B is PBL. You might want to research and see if that's a learning style that would suit you. They recently achieved 100% pass rate on comlex. It's a school that seems to really care about seeing their students succeed. I kick myself everyday for not choosing this school in 2006.

Admission stats at both schools suggest average GPA is around 3.4-3.6 and average MCAT is 24-26. They do give preference to in-state residents.

It's just two letters behind your name, nothing more or less. It will not effect whether or not you will be an exceptional physician.

It's your decision to make, but what could it hurt to apply and get a feel for these schools at an interview?

 

[J ROD]

Well guys....it's not the letters from what my adviser said...any other ideas? I feel this is a mystery...

Did you ask your advisor what the problem may be?

Maybe they can get in there and find out something that they will not tell you. You should at the least be getting interviews....

 

[J ROD]

I would apply to the DO schools in FL. At this point, you have to cover yourself. You could always defer an acceptance and try MD more one time.

 

[ShyRem]

Ok, devil's advocate here. And I may be wrong, but here's another take on your app:

Low GPA. High MCAT. That says you don't live up to your potential (unless you were taking things like PChem, advanced real analysis, chem eng, etc. - things that make you think and aren't memorization courses). It says you are smart and capable, but lazy. And that ain't good. I don't know how old you are, but you have shadowing of five docs? Three different medical experiences? You don't say how long they all lasted - were they concurrent or sequential? If they were concurrent and you are of traditional age that could also speak to lack of focus, lack of commitment.

I'm not saying that's what they're thinking. But it's a possibility.

 

[fahimaz7]

Maybe you freak out during your interviews?

 

[womp]

Ok, devil's advocate here. And I may be wrong, but here's another take on your app:

Low GPA. High MCAT. That says you don't live up to your potential (unless you were taking things like PChem, advanced real analysis, chem eng, etc. - things that make you think and aren't memorization courses). It says you are smart and capable, but lazy. And that ain't good. I don't know how old you are, but you have shadowing of five docs? Three different medical experiences? You don't say how long they all lasted - were they concurrent or sequential? If they were concurrent and you are of traditional age that could also speak to lack of focus, lack of commitment.

I'm not saying that's what they're thinking. But it's a possibility.

I had an embarrassingly low GPA, but it wasn't due to laziness, I explored my interests and took a wide breadth of challenging classes that would scare the crap out of most premeds. When someone has a high GPA and a low MCAT, it tells me they can't apply what they learned, they can't think under time pressure and stress, or they went to an easy undergrad or took easy classes. None of that is flattering for a future doctor either. The MCAT can be retaken, there's no excuse.

It's hard to do well on the MCAT if you are truly lazy and didn't learn anything from your prereq classes. I've had friends like those, and they got 18's and 24's on their MCATs. There are lots of low GPA people with the attitude, "all I need is to do well on the MCAT," but not many do. The ones who do do well (as in MCAT >36) tend to know their ****, and their GPAs are low for other reasons, not laziness.

 

[ShyRem]

I know people who have low GPAs and high MCATs because they went to ridiculously difficult schools (i.e. Colorado School of Mines), I also know people who have low GPAs and high MCATs because they just never applied themselves during school but did a review course for the MCAT. You get both flavors. I was just pointing out that the OPs application could be viewed in a not favorable light such as that I portrayed.

I hear what you are saying, but consider you could only be seeing what you want to see. Try seeing it from an admission committee's eyes and not from a pre-med eye which is ever-hopeful.

 

[faith2]

Disd you apply broadly... what about your actual experiences....this is weird because when I look at your stats I start salivating wishing they were minesYou are from florida as well I agree with other people just apply to NOVA it is a good school Bradenton is good as well

accepted 2014 UCF

 

[dingyibvs]

I know people who have low GPAs and high MCATs because they went to ridiculously difficult schools (i.e. Colorado School of Mines), I also know people who have low GPAs and high MCATs because they just never applied themselves during school but did a review course for the MCAT. You get both flavors. I was just pointing out that the OPs application could be viewed in a not favorable light such as that I portrayed.

I hear what you are saying, but consider you could only be seeing what you want to see. Try seeing it from an admission committee's eyes and not from a pre-med eye which is ever-hopeful.

You don't get a 38 just by taking a review course. With that said, obviously, having either a low MCAT or a low GPA raises flags, but they can be made up somewhat by a high GPA or a high MCAT respectively. The OP's GPA isn't THAT low, he should be getting some interviews unless something else is wrong with his application. OTOH, it's still quite early in the interview season, and Florida schools are pretty slow with interviews in general, so there might be some good news yet.

 

[NTF]

It's still way early. I wouldn't get worried until January.

 

[ShyRem]

Um, a low GPA or a low MCAT can NOT always be made up by a high other side. In fact, usually not. But if you want to think they can so you feel better about yourself or your buddies, go right ahead. Why listen to someone who is already in medical school who sees who gets in, who gets interviewed, hears the scuttlebutt from the admissions folks?

While I agree the OPs GPA isn't that terribly low, it is a total mismatch from his/her MCAT. That raises flags. And if the courseload doesn't explain the low GPA, then the mismatch is not in their favor.

Of course, I'm just a current medical student who graduates in 7 months. I may be totally off on what it takes to actually get accepted to medical school. (which, BTW, is more than just numbers - it's the whole package. And a mismatch is part of that package.)

OP, you need to sell yourself better. I would take a serious look at the whole package and figure out how to minimize your flaws by accentuating your strengths. I'm not an expert in that - find someone who is. You should be able to garner acceptance somewhere if you sell yourself right and apply to the right places.

 

[amine2086]

OP, the application cycle is not over yet. You had one interview. See how that works out. I have a feeling you will get some more interviews. You have an amazing MCAT score. Let the application cycle unfold. If you are not passionate about DO, do not apply. Last thing you want to do is go to DO school, invest all that time and money into it and then hate your decision for rest of your life because you always knew you wanted to be an MD.

 

[dragonfly99]

It seems like it is still early in the year, and you may get more interviews.
Looking at the grades you have listed, I'm sure there may be some concern about the low grades in classes like organic chem. Even if it doesn't "count", it might be helpful to retake organic chem and ace it...if you really want in medical school, and you have taken the class already, and you had a 38 MCAT, then you should be able to get an A or A-. If you did apply to DO schools, then they would likely count the replacement grade. However, it doesn't sound like you want to be a DO, so perhaps you shouldn't apply to those schools.

I would still wonder about your LOR's...even if the premed advisor claimed that none of them were bad. I guess unless you have another option to get a new one right now, though, you are stuck with them for this year. Were any of the LOR's from a practicing MD? Were any of them from an MD who is on the faculty at any medical school? Connections can matter.

I think you are wrong about DO's not being able to practice internationally. Doctors Without Borders takes DO's and they work in a ton of countries. I do think it's true that there are some countries that don't recognize the DO degree, but my impression is that it's not as many as people think.

I would not bail for the Caribbean at this point, especially if you are still in your early to mid 20's. You have nothing but time to get into med school, although I understand that your situation is frustrating.

If you are thinking of applying only to US MD schools for now,then with your GPA I would start taking some more classes right now. Take at least 1, maybe 2, upper level bio or biochem courses next semester. If you are mainly trying to drag up the GPA and get in this year,then taking some bio and not the organic chem retake might be better. You have to think like an adcom...show them that you can take 400-level biology courses and ace them. With the C's in upper level science courses, including organic,they may be wondering if you can stomach med school level work, and as mentioned above, your work ethic or studying strategies may be a concern.

I also think that rather than stressing too much about the interviews you DON'T have, you should concentrate a lot on the ones you have. If you just have/had 1 at this point, then do everything you can to get into that school. Write them a nice letter stating they are your number 1 choice school (might want to get advice from others about the best time to do this, whether now vs. later in the season...it's been a while since I interviewed for any med school and I don't know what the current thinking is). You may want to consider getting one of your LOR writers to call the school on your behalf as well, if you have a good enough relationship with any of your LOR writers.

Can you tell us more about your volunteer activities? Are you currently a college student or already graduated?

Last, I want to suggest that if you end up not getting in this year, then I think you need to pull out all the stops next year...that includes applying DO and Caribbean...but I would not at this point since it doesn't seem like you want to be a DO. As far as Caribbean, I would not apply now...for sure you would get in but that is kind of a last resort. You should not go to any Caribbean school except to the top 3 or 4 (St. George/Ross/SABA/AUC). You should really keep this as a last resort, though...as an internist, I personally think that going to a solid DO school is going to put you in a better position, even considering you want to work internationally. You should do more research on this issue, though...NOT now, when you need to concentrate on the applitions/interviews that you have, but perhaps next spring/summer, if US MD school doesn't work out for you for this year.

 

[dingyibvs]

Um, a low GPA or a low MCAT can NOT always be made up by a high other side. In fact, usually not. But if you want to think they can so you feel better about yourself or your buddies, go right ahead. Why listen to someone who is already in medical school who sees who gets in, who gets interviewed, hears the scuttlebutt from the admissions folks?

While I agree the OPs GPA isn't that terribly low, it is a total mismatch from his/her MCAT. That raises flags. And if the courseload doesn't explain the low GPA, then the mismatch is not in their favor.

Of course, I'm just a current medical student who graduates in 7 months. I may be totally off on what it takes to actually get accepted to medical school. (which, BTW, is more than just numbers - it's the whole package. And a mismatch is part of that package.)

OP, you need to sell yourself better. I would take a serious look at the whole package and figure out how to minimize your flaws by accentuating your strengths. I'm not an expert in that - find someone who is. You should be able to garner acceptance somewhere if you sell yourself right and apply to the right places.

I didn't use absolutes as you did, you see, I specifically used the word "somewhat". Funny how all the great medical school education didn't teach you how to read or not act like a total prick.

You're a med student, great, but did you have to go through the process yourself twice? Did you spend months after months studying every mdapps profile and the experiences of hundreds of SDNers? You think some heresay from essentially one school(in addition to some of your buddies, I'm sure) is enough?

The point is, a 3.4/38 is better than a 3.4/28, even if the former raises red flags while the latter doesn't. If you agree to that statement, then it's obvious that a high MCAT can indeed make up for a low GPA SOMEWHAT.

 

[ezsanche]

The key to reapplying is that you have to show improvement. Whatever areas that you were weak in you must improve upon them for the next application cycle. For you, your weakness is your GPA. You have a whole bunch of Cs and Bs on your pre-med science courses. Doing a post bacc and getting good grades will definitely help you out.

When I applied the first time, I had a GPA of 3.96 and trust me I didn't have a light load. I got two degrees in 4 years. I got a degree in Microbiology and another one in Chemistry and a minor in Biomedical physics. I was taking 20+ credit hours per semesters. I was working partime as a academic tutor and researching at the COM of my school. I was shadowing doctors and volunteering at my local hospital. I was a part of a peer mentor program. I was a volunteer coach for a little league basketball team. I also did two health related study abroad programs. So as you can see, I had a intensive schedule for 4 years. You think I would have gotten into medical school the first time. But why didn't I? Because I had a 27 on my MCAT. (P=11 V=5 V=11). Now a 27 (56.6 percentile) is not a bad score but getting a 5 on my verbal really destroyed my chances at a lot of schools. I applied to all state schools and I was interviewed at only one (FSU). At the end, I was wait-listed until this July and then I was rejected.

As soon as I was rejected I knew that if I wanted to get in this year's cycle I would need to retake and do better on my MCAT. From July through August, I studied for my MCAT. I self studied both times because I didn't feel a course would do any good plus I couldn't afford it. On my second retake, I felt so much better than the first time. I ended up with a 36 (P=14 V=9 B=13). Although I didn't get the 10 on verbal that I was hoping for, I still improved greatly from my orginal score of 5. My score was good enough to rank me in the top 2.5 -3.5 percentile. I applied and submitted my secondaries in late September and I have already received 3 interviews from my state schools. FSU,UCF, and FIU. But I guess it also helped that I am a URM and come from a disadvantaged background. I am also expecting to get much more invites. Especially from the two other Florida schools that i submitted my application to - USF (my undergraduate) and UM.

Now the reason why I am having success in this cycle is because I improved on my weakness. Sure I had a sucky MCAT score, but I believe I showed the ad committee that my first mcat score was not truly reflective of what I could accomplish.

Now you applied again this year with the same stats. It would be wise to do a post bacc or a masters program. Get good grades and show them that your past grades do not reflect your potential as a student. Now, hopefully you would get in this year and wont have to waste money on a post bacc or masters. But just in case you don't get in then really consider doing these programs to boost your GPA. Applying again for next cycle will really suck because your MCAT will be no good for certain schools. You really don't want to retake the MCAT after you got a 38.

 

[ezsanche]

I didn't use absolutes as you did, you see, I specifically used the word "somewhat". Funny how all the great medical school education didn't teach you how to read or not act like a total prick.

You're a med student, great, but did you have to go through the process yourself twice? Did you spend months after months studying every mdapps profile and the experiences of hundreds of SDNers? You think some heresay from essentially one school(in addition to some of your buddies, I'm sure) is enough?

The point is, a 3.4/38 is better than a 3.4/28, even if the former raises red flags while the latter doesn't. If you agree to that statement, then it's obvious that a high MCAT can indeed make up for a low GPA SOMEWHAT.

Really? Who would have thought...

Did you mean a 3.4/38 is better than a 4.0/28? If that is the case than yes I would think the former is better but only slightly.

 

[dingyibvs]

Really? Who would have thought...

Did you mean a 3.4/38 is better than a 4.0/28? If that is the case than yes I would think the former is better but only slightly.

No, I meant exactly what I said. I was simply supporting my claim that a high MCAT does somewhat make up for a low GPA, even if it raises red flags that a low gpa/low mcat combo doesn't raise. This is, really, pretty dang obvious as you pointed out.

 

[Pet of the Week]

MCAT score is a better predictor of med school grades than undergrad gpa. I'll find the study.... since I know someone is going to decide to call me on it.... Also, if you look at the aamc successful applicants stats, you'll see that MCAT is clearly more important in whether or not an applicant will get in.

 

[ShyRem]

Yes, I was a re-app. For a variety of reasons. Yes, I sent months researching, calling people, agonizing over my every little decision, talking to admissions folks, people I knew who used to be admissions folks, anyone I could network with across the country to get advice, etc. I took advantage of family connections to have informal sessions with admissions folks at med schools I was not applying to for advice.

I'm done. Pre-meds unite and enjoy. OP, I wish you well and I stand by my advice: you need to figure out how to sell yourself better and figure out what's wrong with your application.

 

[Food]

Thanks guys - I've spent a lot of time reading everything you guys wrote.

I think I will apply to a couple of DO schools just for the sake of it. I'm also trying to figure out if I can take any spring courses for a post-bacc option...I think that is my best option right now.

 

[J ROD]

Thanks guys - I've spent a lot of time reading everything you guys wrote.

I think I will apply to a couple of DO schools just for the sake of it. I'm also trying to figure out if I can take any spring courses for a post-bacc option...I think that is my best option right now.

Sounds like a plan! I would still be surprised if you did not get more interviews...

 

[faith2]

Food.....I am proud of you and your determination....NOVA will allow you to stay in Florida and so will Bradenton...you can also try the postbacs that guarantee you a seat Geaorgetown UMDNJ and others that is a better gamble there are other programs I just do not knw all of them UPENN I think anyway there are quite a few I will senfd you positive energy

class of 2014 UCF

 

[JanikeyDoc]

By the way, if you're going to tell me I'm making a stupid decision, at least elaborate on it. Is there any evidence that if I come from the Caribbean I won't get at least some residency? I've taken a look at the match lists from Ross/SGU from last year and a sizeable majority of their graduates did match. Obviously it was mostly in obscure programs in Family Practice / I.M. but people did match into a lot of Surgery and ROAD residencies too. I think with SGU/Ross the only real risk I'd be running would be falling victim to their 30% dropout/fail rate. After that, I think I could land at least a family practice residency.

To be honest though, as of right now, I'm willing to take another shot at U.S. MD schools, even if it means retaking the MCAT.

Honestly with your MCAT, doing a little better won't make a difference, its already and excellent score. What you should really try is apply to DO schools instead, might have a better chance there. I think its your
GPA that is the issue, less than a 3.6 overall and a 3.6 Science is low for MD schools.

 

[fahimaz7]

MCAT score is a better predictor of med school grades than undergrad gpa. I'll find the study.... since I know someone is going to decide to call me on it.... Also, if you look at the aamc successful applicants stats, you'll see that MCAT is clearly more important in whether or not an applicant will get in.

I would love to see that study. Here at my school, our waitlist is basically ranked by GPA.

GPA shows that the applicant is a hard worker... exactly what medical school requires. A high MCAT shows that you can take a test really quickly and pick up on small details that other might miss.

4.0/30 is much better than a 3.4/36

 

[ezsanche]

I would love to see that study. Here at my school, our waitlist is basically ranked by GPA.

GPA shows that the applicant is a hard worker... exactly what medical school requires. A high MCAT shows that you can take a test really quickly and pick up on small details that other might miss.

4.0/30 is much better than a 3.4/36

What school is this?

 

[faith2]

Isn't the MCAT a standardized test though so if you went to Harvard or a community college a 40 is still a 40 right?

Class of 2014UCF

 

[Pet of the Week]

I would love to see that study. Here at my school, our waitlist is basically ranked by GPA.

GPA shows that the applicant is a hard worker... exactly what medical school requires. A high MCAT shows that you can take a test really quickly and pick up on small details that other might miss.

4.0/30 is much better than a 3.4/36

Abstract posted below. And in my opinion, a 3.4/36 is better than a 4.0/30. What good is a 4.0 if you can't apply your knowledge to new situations? Also, my most intelligent, most capable students usually didn't have the highest grades. And those that did have the highest grades were usually just good memorizers and wouldn't remember the material a week later when I tried to relate it to new material. The purpose of the mcat is to separate out the critical thinkers from the rote memorizers after all. And it doesn't matter if you are a hard worker if you are as dumb as a brick. There are tons of dumb people with 4.0's. Are there dumb people with 36's on the mcat? I doubt it.


Academic Medicine (2005) 80: 910-917.
© 2005 by the Association of American Medical Colleges
Research Reports
Validity of the Medical College Admission Test for Predicting Medical School Performance
Ellen R. Julian, PhD

Dr. Julian is associate vice president and director, Medical College Admission Test, Association of American Medical Colleges, Washington, D.C.

Correspondence should be addressed to Dr. Julian, Association of American Medical Colleges, 2450 N Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20037-1127.

Purpose

Since the introduction of the revised Medical College Admission Test (MCAT®) in 1991, the Association of American Medical Colleges has been investigating the extent to which MCAT scores supplement the power of undergraduate grade point averages (uGPAs) to predict success in medical school. This report is a comprehensive summary of the relationships between MCAT scores and (1) medical school grades, (2) United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) Step scores, and (3) academic distinction or difficulty.

Method

This study followed two cohorts from entrance to medical school through residency. Students from 14 medical schools' 1992 and 1993 entering classes provided data for predicting medical school grades and academic difficulty/distinction, while their peers from all of the U.S. medical schools were used to predict performance on USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3. Regression analyses assessed the predictive power of combinations of uGPAs, MCAT scores, and undergraduate-institution selectivity.

Results

Grades were best predicted by a combination of MCAT scores and uGPAs, with MCAT scores providing a substantial increment over uGPAs. MCAT scores were better predictors of USMLE Step scores than were uGPAs, and the combination did little better than MCAT scores alone. The probability of experiencing academic difficulty or distinction tended to vary with MCAT scores. MCAT scores were strong predictors of scores for all three Step examinations, particularly Step 1.

Conclusions

MCAT scores almost double the proportion of variance in medical school grades explained by uGPAs, and essentially replace the need for uGPAs in their impressive prediction of Step scores. The MCAT performs well as an indicator of academic preparation for medical school, independent of the school-specific handicaps of uGPAs.

 

[Food]

I was reading that study today, actually. From my own biased perspective, I think that MCAT is a better indicator overall than GPA

Of course, there's obviously a problem with that since you can be an extraordinarily lazy person and still manage to do well on a test. The sad part is, I know I wasn't the best student. But honestly, I really enjoyed learning and applying what I learned. I feel that most college students these days don't do that and get grades for the sake of getting grades. Nothing wrong with that, since that's the path to admission, but it's a sad development for education in general. Education used to be about actually learning stuff for the sake of learning it. I took tons of classes beyond the scope of the standard pre-med track and I wish the adcoms would recognize at least something good in that.

Also, I have 1337 posts. Hahahaha

 

[QofQuimica]

Thanks guys - I've spent a lot of time reading everything you guys wrote.

I think I will apply to a couple of DO schools just for the sake of it. I'm also trying to figure out if I can take any spring courses for a post-bacc option...I think that is my best option right now.

Hello from a fellow Floridian.

Food, the medical school app process can be extraordinarily humbling, which you don't exactly need me to tell you. Applying to Nova and LECOM-B is a good decision, but broadening your app strategy is only part of the solution.

Going solely with the information you have provided, I do think your grades are a serious problem. In contrast to what one of the former posters suggested, a high MCAT does *not* make up for subpar grades. The adcom is looking for both strong grades *and* a competitive MCAT, not one or the other. My school is forgiving of students who show an upward trend in grades after a rough start. But unfortunately, your grades show a consistent downward trend from your sophomore year on, after a not so hot showing your freshman year. In addition, you have Bs and Cs in all of the prereqs. Other people have already suggested doing postbac classes. If you do apply to Nova and LECOM-B, you should definitely retake the prereqs you made Cs in, because DO schools let you replace lower grades rather than averaging them together the way AMCAS does. You can bring your GPA up fairly quickly that way.

As for other potential issues, obviously, your MCAT is not a problem. I haven't seen anything else from your app, and neither has anyone else here, so we're really not in a position to comment about them. But basically, the other areas that adcoms look at besides stats are the ones you already know about: PS and secondary essays, ECs (clinical exposure, community service, etc.), letters of recommendation, and interview feedback. However, even if we assume that all of those things are average or better, your academic record is still an issue. At the very least, you should seriously consider doing some repair work in that area.

Best of luck to you.

 

[LittleRichard]

Abstract posted below. And in my opinion, a 3.4/36 is better than a 4.0/30. What good is a 4.0 if you can't apply your knowledge to new situations? Also, my most intelligent, most capable students usually didn't have the highest grades. And those that did have the highest grades were usually just good memorizers and wouldn't remember the material a week later when I tried to relate it to new material. The purpose of the mcat is to separate out the critical thinkers from the rote memorizers after all. And it doesn't matter if you are a hard worker if you are as dumb as a brick. There are tons of dumb people with 4.0's. Are there dumb people with 36's on the mcat? I doubt it.


Academic Medicine (2005) 80: 910-917.
© 2005 by the Association of American Medical Colleges
Research Reports
Validity of the Medical College Admission Test for Predicting Medical School Performance
Ellen R. Julian, PhD

Dr. Julian is associate vice president and director, Medical College Admission Test, Association of American Medical Colleges, Washington, D.C.

Correspondence should be addressed to Dr. Julian, Association of American Medical Colleges, 2450 N Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20037-1127.

Purpose

Since the introduction of the revised Medical College Admission Test (MCAT®) in 1991, the Association of American Medical Colleges has been investigating the extent to which MCAT scores supplement the power of undergraduate grade point averages (uGPAs) to predict success in medical school. This report is a comprehensive summary of the relationships between MCAT scores and (1) medical school grades, (2) United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) Step scores, and (3) academic distinction or difficulty.

Method

This study followed two cohorts from entrance to medical school through residency. Students from 14 medical schools' 1992 and 1993 entering classes provided data for predicting medical school grades and academic difficulty/distinction, while their peers from all of the U.S. medical schools were used to predict performance on USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3. Regression analyses assessed the predictive power of combinations of uGPAs, MCAT scores, and undergraduate-institution selectivity.

Results

Grades were best predicted by a combination of MCAT scores and uGPAs, with MCAT scores providing a substantial increment over uGPAs. MCAT scores were better predictors of USMLE Step scores than were uGPAs, and the combination did little better than MCAT scores alone. The probability of experiencing academic difficulty or distinction tended to vary with MCAT scores. MCAT scores were strong predictors of scores for all three Step examinations, particularly Step 1.

Conclusions

MCAT scores almost double the proportion of variance in medical school grades explained by uGPAs, and essentially replace the need for uGPAs in their impressive prediction of Step scores. The MCAT performs well as an indicator of academic preparation for medical school, independent of the school-specific handicaps of uGPAs.

The point is that you need to have a high mcat and a high gpa. Who are you anyway? "My students"? Are you a teacher or something?

 

[Pet of the Week]

The point is that you need to have a high mcat and a high gpa. Who are you anyway? "My students"? Are you a teacher or something?

I taught highschool general, advanced, and ap biology and college anatomy/physiology and microbiology labs. I also tutored medical students in biochemistry. I plan to teach in some way when I become a physician as well. I've had students who are brilliant slackers, and others who are not terribly bright, but hard workers. The brilliant slacker would likely score higher on the mcat simply because he is able to apply knowledge to new situations and make connections across subjects and chapters. The slow hard worker with a 4.0 is not capable of doing this. Of course, there are also brilliant hard workers. And as you suggested, those would be ideal for medical school.

Sure, it would be nice for everyone who has a high mcat to also have a high gpa and vice versa, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. It could be due to laziness, family or medical problems, or anything really. As the study above suggests, an mcat score is a much better predictor of grades and board scores in med school. The mcat is standardized. Curriculum and grading policies of different universities are not. A 4.0 is often possible simply through memorization and timely completion of assignments. (This varies with school, major, etc. of course.) However, you can't memorize your way to a 36 on the MCAT. That's all I'm saying.

 

[faith2]

I do not think everything applies to everyone. I have avg mcat after the third try below avg gpa high grad gpa but i have other things to offer everyone i know with high mcat ec's and 3.0-3.5 got in

accepted 2014 UCF

 

[ezsanche]

I taught highschool general, advanced, and ap biology and college anatomy/physiology and microbiology labs. I also tutored medical students in biochemistry. I plan to teach in some way when I become a physician as well. I've had students who are brilliant slackers, and others who are not terribly bright, but hard workers. The brilliant slacker would likely score higher on the mcat simply because he is able to apply knowledge to new situations and make connections across subjects and chapters. The slow hard worker with a 4.0 is not capable of doing this. Of course, there are also brilliant hard workers. And as you suggested, those would be ideal for medical school.

Sure, it would be nice for everyone who has a high mcat to also have a high gpa and vice versa, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. It could be due to laziness, family or medical problems, or anything really. As the study above suggests, an mcat score is a much better predictor of grades and board scores in med school. The mcat is standardized. Curriculum and grading policies of different universities are not. A 4.0 is often possible simply through memorization and timely completion of assignments. (This varies with school, major, etc. of course.) However, you can't memorize your way to a 36 on the MCAT. That's all I'm saying.

I did!

 

[Food]

Hello from a fellow Floridian.

Food, the medical school app process can be extraordinarily humbling, which you don't exactly need me to tell you. Applying to Nova and LECOM-B is a good decision, but broadening your app strategy is only part of the solution.

Going solely with the information you have provided, I do think your grades are a serious problem. In contrast to what one of the former posters suggested, a high MCAT does *not* make up for subpar grades. The adcom is looking for both strong grades *and* a competitive MCAT, not one or the other. My school is forgiving of students who show an upward trend in grades after a rough start. But unfortunately, your grades show a consistent downward trend from your sophomore year on, after a not so hot showing your freshman year. In addition, you have Bs and Cs in all of the prereqs. Other people have already suggested doing postbac classes. If you do apply to Nova and LECOM-B, you should definitely retake the prereqs you made Cs in, because DO schools let you replace lower grades rather than averaging them together the way AMCAS does. You can bring your GPA up fairly quickly that way.

As for other potential issues, obviously, your MCAT is not a problem. I haven't seen anything else from your app, and neither has anyone else here, so we're really not in a position to comment about them. But basically, the other areas that adcoms look at besides stats are the ones you already know about: PS and secondary essays, ECs (clinical exposure, community service, etc.), letters of recommendation, and interview feedback. However, even if we assume that all of those things are average or better, your academic record is still an issue. At the very least, you should seriously consider doing some repair work in that area.

Best of luck to you.

You're right about the Bs / Cs in pre-reqs, but I really did pick it up in all subsequent sciences. For example, I did make As in Bio 2, two Biochem courses, both P Chems, Inorganic, modern physics, etc. I even took grad level chem courses in organic and managed an A in 1 and a B in another. I realize that doesn't erase past mistakes or performances, but does it not help at all?

 

[J ROD]

You're right about the Bs / Cs in pre-reqs, but I really did pick it up in all subsequent sciences. For example, I did make As in Bio 2, two Biochem courses, both P Chems, Inorganic, modern physics, etc. I even took grad level chem courses in organic and managed an A in 1 and a B in another. I realize that doesn't erase past mistakes or performances, but does it not help at all?

I think it does to an extent. I still think you have a good shot this year.

I do think though that if you dont get in. A couple of strong semesters postbac would help...I think one day you will be a US MD student!

 

[QofQuimica]

You're right about the Bs / Cs in pre-reqs, but I really did pick it up in all subsequent sciences. For example, I did make As in Bio 2, two Biochem courses, both P Chems, Inorganic, modern physics, etc. I even took grad level chem courses in organic and managed an A in 1 and a B in another. I realize that doesn't erase past mistakes or performances, but does it not help at all?

I honestly don't know. At my school, the entire adcom does not participate in screening; only a subgroup of committee members do that. With the caveat that I have never served as a screener, one problem I could forsee is that the screeners may not look through all of your individual classes with a fine-tooth comb. Beyond whatever the screeners do, most of the adcom members will never see your individual class grades at all. We don't consider them during the adcom meetings; there are just too many applications to get through in a limited amount of time. However, the adcom does sometimes look at yearly GPA trends and postbac GPAs when making decisions. Unfortunately, this system would not work in your favor, which is why I suggested taking some postbac classes so that you could show an upward trend there. Note that if you do decide to take postbac classes, they should be taken at the undergrad level, not the grad level.

 

[Food]

I honestly don't know. At my school, the entire adcom does not participate in screening; only a subgroup of committee members do that. With the caveat that I have never served as a screener, one problem I could forsee is that the screeners may not look through all of your individual classes with a fine-tooth comb. Beyond whatever the screeners do, most of the adcom members will never see your individual class grades at all. We don't consider them during the adcom meetings; there are just too many applications to get through in a limited amount of time. However, the adcom does sometimes look at yearly GPA trends and postbac GPAs when making decisions. Unfortunately, this system would not work in your favor, which is why I suggested taking some postbac classes so that you could show an upward trend there. Note that if you do decide to take postbac classes, they should be taken at the undergrad level, not the grad level.

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how to register as a post-bac student. How does one go about gaining admission to a university as a post-bac student?

 

[J ROD]

There are formal postbac programs out there. What I would do is tell the university you want to do a second BA/BS, enroll and take the classes you think will help raise your GPA and show an upward trend. You need to get all A's. That simple!! With a 38 MCAT, I know you are capable....