Radiation oncology job

[Radz08]

The job market seems to get tighter and tighter every year. Do part time/4 days a week positions exist anymore? I love what I do but my family is tired of the 55-60 hour work weeks that has become the new standard. On the east coast but open to looking elsewhere for the right position.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[thaddeus]

Yes, they are still out there. Of course you will sacrifice financially if you're only working 4 days/week. I also found that some positions advertised as 5 days/week would be willing to consider 4 days/week (with a 20% pay cut of course). YMMV.

 

[nkmiami]

just because you asked..

Radiation Oncologist – Lake Butler, FL

e+CancerCare is recruiting a Radiation Oncologist for our center in Lake Butler, Florida located within the Florida Department of Corrections Center. Position requires 2 days per week onsite in the Radiation Oncology Department with required remote coverage and treatment planning as needed. We offer an excellent compensation package with focus on work life balance.

 

[Palex80]

Is this a job in a prison?

 

[medgator]

Is this a job in a prison?

Unclear, they handle the dept of corrections contract, prob a freestanding center outside

 

[smq123]

Unclear, they handle the dept of corrections contract, prob a freestanding center outside

Surprisingly, I think it's actually on prison grounds:

In 1972 a fully licensed 120 bed hospital opened within the secure perimeter of the Main Unit. Due to centralized geography and a fleet of transport buses, RMC quickly grew into a primary transportation hub for the Department. Through the years the medical mission expanded to include a dialysis and cancer treatment center, also located within the secure perimeter of the Main Unit.

Reception and Medical Center -- Fl Dept. of Corrections

It looks like they're responsible for the bulk of medical care for prison inmates throughout the state of Florida, so I imagine that they might actually have a decent number of patients who need treatment.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

There are definitely pros and cons to that. I will be the first to admit that I assume all prisoners are going to kill me.

 

[medgator]

There are definitely pros and cons to that. I will be the first to admit that I assume all prisoners are going to kill me.

Or worse

I'm kinda wondering though, since they aren't bounded by Medicare/Medicaid/tricare physician supervision requirements, maybe they just don't cover the center the other three days a week?

 

[Neuronix]

Yes, they are still out there. Of course you will sacrifice financially if you're only working 4 days/week. I also found that some positions advertised as 5 days/week would be willing to consider 4 days/week (with a 20% pay cut of course). YMMV.

20%? More pay cut than that and also no opportunity for partner-track/advancement. You'll also be the first one fired if there's any issue.

I will say if you wanna not work that hard and not get paid all that well but have a stable job, check out the VA. I've seen some availability there over the years.

 

[smq123]

There are definitely pros and cons to that. I will be the first to admit that I assume all prisoners are going to kill me.

It'd be interesting to see who, if anyone, they get to staff that. The location isn't great, although it appears to be 40 minutes from Gainesville and an hour from Jax - if you're only going twice a week, that's not unfeasible. But career advancement is kind of out of the question, and I imagine it's a tough patient population. Maybe if you're semi-retired and living on the beach and don't mind driving an hour twice a week.

 

[seper]

I used to treat many prisoners (hospital had a contract with a state prison), and they are easy patients to manage, IMO.

 

[medgator]

. Maybe if you're semi-retired and living on the beach and don't mind driving an hour twice a week.

Exactly who I think would take it

 

[OTN]

20%? More pay cut than that and also no opportunity for partner-track/advancement. You'll also be the first one fired if there's any issue.

I will say if you wanna not work that hard and not get paid all that well but have a stable job, check out the VA. I've seen some availability there over the years.

Some practices allow 4 clinic days/week schedule without any problems - ours is one, for example.

 

[Gfunk6]

In residency, I used to treat prisoners from San Quentin prison. Despite being cuffed/chained and surrounded by armed guards, I found these folks to be friendly, compliant and deferential.

If you consider that most of their days are spent avoiding gang violence/prison rape, you will see that going to a Rad Onc dept for them is like going to a 5 star resort.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[RadTastic]

4 days per week is pretty standard "full time" rad onc job, based on my assessment of the rad onc job market over the last few years. Definitely in private practice, and also academics. And you shouldn't take a pay cut for 4 days, 4 days is the standard amount of days a rad onc should work.

 

[medgator]

, 4 days is the standard amount of days a rad onc should work.

Except radiation is given 5 days a week at most places. Unless it's a larger group that is set up like that, 5 days a week is pretty standard in pp in my experience,, esp among smaller groups.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Friday is when all the spinal cord compressions come rainy down! We already know cancer doesn't grow on weekends, so I guess it works extra hard on Fridays... unlike all you lazy docs!

 

[Palex80]

You can do great clinical research in a prison-located clinic. No patients lost to follow up.

 

[medgator]

You can do great clinical research in a prison-located clinic. No patients lost to follow up.

Unless they get released.... happened to me once in residency

No coverage once they were out of prison

 

[Palex80]

Unless they get released.... happened to me once in residency

No coverage once they were out of prison

You need to put that into the study inclusion criteria!
The ethical committee is going to love it.

 

[Palex80]

Friday is when all the spinal cord compressions come rainy down! We already know cancer doesn't grow on weekends, so I guess it works extra hard on Fridays... unlike all you lazy docs!

Evidence based statement!
Always on a Friday? Time pattern of referral for spinal cord compression. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Palex80]

Surprisingly, I think it's actually on prison grounds:

In 1972 a fully licensed 120 bed hospital opened within the secure perimeter of the Main Unit. Due to centralized geography and a fleet of transport buses, RMC quickly grew into a primary transportation hub for the Department. Through the years the medical mission expanded to include a dialysis and cancer treatment center, also located within the secure perimeter of the Main Unit.

Reception and Medical Center -- Fl Dept. of Corrections

It looks like they're responsible for the bulk of medical care for prison inmates throughout the state of Florida, so I imagine that they might actually have a decent number of patients who need treatment.

Lovely place...

 

[smq123]

Lovely place...

Yes, definitely not the part of Florida that the Tourism Board promotes heavily....

 

[Neuronix]

4 days per week is pretty standard "full time" rad onc job, based on my assessment of the rad onc job market over the last few years. Definitely in private practice, and also academics. And you shouldn't take a pay cut for 4 days, 4 days is the standard amount of days a rad onc should work.

Huh? Where are these magical jobs? PM me if you like. When I was looking, I didn't find any practices advertising full time salary with advancement for less than 60 hours a week of work. Academics is different, sort of.

 

[Sheldor]

Huh? Where are these magical jobs? PM me if you like. When I was looking, I didn't find any practices advertising full time salary with advancement for less than 60 hours a week of work. Academics is different, sort of.

I know it doesn't help a ton, but of the 4 private offers I got, 3 were for four days a week. The other practices that co-residents have been talking to are all 4 days week as well. While not ubiquitous, my impression was that they were fairly common.

Disclaimer: Neither myself or people I've talked to are looking for jobs in LA or NYC.

 

[deleted18755]

Is it 4 days a week as in clinic, sims, tumor boards etc for 3.5-4 days then nothing necessarily scheduled on the 5th but you spend most of the day dictating notes, working on tumor volumes/reviewing plans, calling patients/other doctors, etc (maybe even from home) or 4 days a week as in the fifth day you could turn your cell phone off and take threeday weekend trips?

 

[OTN]

Is it 4 days a week as in clinic, sims, tumor boards etc for 3.5-4 days then nothing necessarily scheduled on the 5th but you spend most of the day dictating notes, working on tumor volumes/reviewing plans, calling patients/other doctors, etc (maybe even from home) or 4 days a week as in the fifth day you could turn your cell phone off and take threeday weekend trips?

In my practice it's totally up to me. Sure, I could not go to tumor boards on my day "off" and do a lot more three day trips, etc, but then my practice wouldn't be the size it is, my income would suffer, etc. I cover my own SAVIs on my day "off" as well to make sure I get the billing, etc. There are some days off that I do truly have off, but they're probably a bit in the minority. I am fortunate in that I work with another radonc in our particular freestanding facility, so we cover for each other on our day without clinic appointments every week. I work as hard as possible during the 4 clinic days to make sure I get all contouring, tx planning, dictating, etc done during those days.

I really do believe having a day per week without clinic appointments helps me be a better radiation oncologist during the other 4. It definitely makes the 4 work days more intense, as I do try to get all the stuff done above like I mentioned, but the three days in a row without clinic helps me recharge on a weekly basis and I have no doubt it will help me have a longer career.

 

[seper]

in U.S. it's pretty hard to approve studies on prisoners - vulnerable population


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[RadTastic]

4 days a week means you go to work 4 days. On the 5th day you sit at home and do nothing, and yes if it's on Friday or Monday that means 3 day weekends every weekend. All the jobs I was offered were of this variety. If you have at least 2 doctors at the site, this should be no problem. I guess if you are a solo doc then this wouldn't be possible (though you could hire a local resident on research rotation to cover your linac once a week on the cheap). Most places are 2 doctors per linac if you are treating ~40 per day per linac, though I realize some are not.

 

[medgator]

4 days a week means you go to work 4 days. On the 5th day you sit at home and do nothing, and yes if it's on Friday or Monday that means 3 day weekends every weekend. All the jobs I was offered were of this variety. If you have at least 2 doctors at the site, this should be no problem. I guess if you are a solo doc then this wouldn't be possible (though you could hire a local resident on research rotation to cover your linac once a week on the cheap). Most places are 2 doctors per linac if you are treating ~40 per day per linac, though I realize some are not.

Some pp places cover 25-30/doc routinely. I've even seen higher than that, but imo it gets crazy when people are treating 35-40+

It comes down to practice philosophy and the work ethic of the partners within the practice

 

[OTN]

Some pp places cover 25-30/doc routinely. I've even seen higher than that, but imo it gets crazy when people are treating 35-40+

It comes down to practice philosophy and the work ethic of the partners within the practice

I average between 30 and 40 and have 42 on tx right now - we have 72 on tx between my partner and I. As #s get above 35 I agree that day "off" gets more and more difficult to preserve.

 

[berag]

You can do great clinical research in a prison-located clinic. No patients lost to follow up.

The opposite is more true. Most of these guys get released after a couple of years, and when they are out they are gone. Also, when they get sick of seeing you, they'll just refuse to see you. That's pretty common, too. Oh, and additional ethics requirements make clinical studies with prisoners almost entirely impossible. Even retrospective.

 

[deleted18755]

I average between 30 and 40 and have 42 on tx right now - we have 72 on tx between my partner and I. As #s get above 35 I agree that day "off" gets more and more difficult to preserve.

Depending on your patient mix (no SRS/SBRT, brachytherapy/OR commitments and I guess a lot more early stage breast and prostate vs H&N) 35 patients under treatment is doable but what do you do when your partner takes a week off (how do you see 70 OTV's and still have time for everything else?).

If either of you take two weeks off do you hire a locums at least for one week to help out even though one of you is there? Just curious!

 

[medgator]

Depending on your patient mix (no SRS/SBRT, brachytherapy/OR commitments and I guess a lot more early stage breast and prostate vs H&N) 35 patients under treatment is doable but what do you do when your partner takes a week off (how do you see 70 OTV's and still have time for everything else?).

If either of you take two weeks off do you hire a locums at least for one week to help out even though one of you is there? Just curious!

I know urorads setups where the RO treats 40-50 no problem. They use a locums when he is out of town for coverage.

I think the planning and weekly management of prostate ca lends itself to that kind of practice being easier to manage vs 30-35 under beam with all disease sites, sicker patients getting chemo, special procedures (srs/sbrt, brachy, radiopharm etc).

 

[OTN]

Depending on your patient mix (no SRS/SBRT, brachytherapy/OR commitments and I guess a lot more early stage breast and prostate vs H&N) 35 patients under treatment is doable but what do you do when your partner takes a week off (how do you see 70 OTV's and still have time for everything else?).

If either of you take two weeks off do you hire a locums at least for one week to help out even though one of you is there? Just curious!

We have a huge urorads practice in town, so right now I actually have 40 patients on tx with only 2 prostate patients. Boo. 1/3rd of my practice is H+N, which I really enjoy.

I don't have any OR commitments, as my partner sees all the Gyn cases, but we do a large amount of SRS/SBRT, SAVI brachy, skin HDR, etc.

My partner and I usually don't take a full week off. If we do, we always have the option of hiring a locums, but we haven't done that yet. We reserve a day only for OTVs, so it's doable to see the whole practice, but very difficult, I agree. The last time I saw all her patients on tx we were around 60ish and it was a long day, especially without a NP/PA, etc. Lucrative, though, as you get all the weekly management billing for those patients.

 

[deleted18755]

I know urorads setups where the RO treats 40-50 no problem. They use a locums when he is out of town for coverage.

I think the planning and weekly management of prostate ca lends itself to that kind of practice being easier to manage vs 30-35 under beam with all disease sites, sicker patients getting chemo, special procedures (srs/sbrt, brachy, radiopharm etc).

Oh wow ... yeah 40+ patients under treatment is very doable if they were all prostates and I bet you could do it in a 4 day week (and retire at age 40!)

 

[medgator]

Oh wow ... yeah 40+ patients under treatment is very doable if they were all prostates and I bet you could do it in a 4 day week (and retire at age 40!)

Very true, but honestly I think work would be boring, even if prostate pays the bills quite well

I like the variety of the full spectrum practice I'm in and I personally get a lot more gratification out of curing stage III lung than a Gleason 6 prostate lol

 

[PruritisAni]

I personally get a lot more gratification out of curing stage III lung

If by "curing" you mean discharging to referring physician, I agree. That is always nice. ; )

 

[medgator]

If by "curing" you mean discharging to referring physician, I agree. That is always nice. ; )

I still follow my lung pts several years out....

 

[Neuronix]

yowza! I hope that job came with a dump truck to help haul all that money!!!

Except for a new grad they will give you that load and still pay you $250-300k/year and pocket the rest! I'm not kidding--I've seen these practices with my own eyes!

 

[medgator]

Except for a new grad they will give you that load and still pay you $250-300k/year and pocket the rest! I'm not kidding--I've seen these practices with my own eyes!

This has been happening for years in certain practices, esp in more desirable practices down south and out west, probably worse now with the oversupply/job market issues

 

[Spiced Meats]

Does anyone know the numbers for median starting from this last ASTRO?

 

[Neuronix]

Does anyone know the numbers for median starting from this last ASTRO?

I'm also curious. Nobody ever surveyed me so I'm also curious who they're asking.

 

[fiji128]

I'm also curious. Nobody ever surveyed me so I'm also curious who they're asking.

A few years ago the average starting was like $300K with academics maybe at $275. The most recent numbers are out there in that Terry Wahl report. Currently, I think starting salaries are about $250K for highly sought after markets like NYC, LA, ect... (I've even had someone tell me that starting salary in NYC is now just a little above $200). If you are about 2 hours from one of these sought after locations or in a decent metro area with over a million people you start at around $325 to $350K. If you are open to relocating anywhere for salary you can find positions that will start at $450 to $550K.

 

[medgator]

If you are open to relocating anywhere for salary you can find positions that will start at $450 to $550K.

Can be higher if you are already BC and have a few years under your belt and they really need you....

 

[Reaganite]

Currently, I think starting salaries are about $250K for highly sought after markets like NYC, LA, ect... (I've even had someone tell me that starting salary in NYC is now just a little above $200)

I can corroborate these numbers. I know of a few places where it has dipped below 200k for full-time in PP. Granted, almost impossible to find full-time work outside academics in the above locales...

 

[scarbrtj]

If you want my opinion, and I know you do, you guys ought to cool it with all this money talk, work week hours talk, etc. Anyone can read this board. All this info here, while fun and "inside baseball" in its nature, can be used as a cudgel by all kinds of types you can imagine in your head... serving only to harm us all collectively. I can see in no way, shape, form or fashion any of this info could help our specialty or us as individuals.

Run silent. Run deep.

 

[medgator]

The job market seems to get tighter and tighter every year. Do part time/4 days a week positions exist anymore? I love what I do but my family is tired of the 55-60 hour work weeks that has become the new standard. On the east coast but open to looking elsewhere for the right position.

With the current state of the job market, it does seem like more part-time positions are being posted.

U Maryland just posted a PT position in their community practice... Part Time/ As Needed Community Based Physician

 

[domestique]

I completely agree with scarbrtj. There is no role for these discussions on here and I've seen people do much lately better both in "top markets" and "second-tier markets." When I was job hunting there was a subset of places in "second-tier markets" where individuals, sometimes physicians but more often some administrator, actually cited the tightening job market as a reason why they made me an offer that was clearly far below market. My response was quite clear and direct that I didn't care what their opinion of the job market was. The only thing that really matters is each person's individual basket of variables, offers.

 

[Neuronix]

As much as I agree that there are a lot of people out there looking to take advantage of new grads, practices know what's going on when they get 100+ applications for a single job posting. I'm not exaggerating.