Pulmonary and Critical Care Fellowship 2023-2024 Cycle

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At this point I'm banking on programs sending out additional waves of interviews. Friends who matched the past two cycles have told me that many invites come out mid-to-late September. That probably means nothing as it's just heresay but I'm still hopeful I can squeek out a few more.

What stresses me out is not knowing a target # of invites/ranks I should be shooting for. With IM apps it was simple.. 10-12 interviews and you're basically golden.
I have heard that also for what it's worth. And for targets I was told 8-10 interviews by my PD but I am at an academic MD program so take that for what it's worth for whatever your situation might be.

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I have heard that also for what it's worth. And for targets I was told 8-10 interviews by my PD but I am at an academic MD program so take that for what it's worth for whatever your situation might be.
That was what I was told as well by my PD at a community hospital without an in house fellowship. So maybe that tracks?
 
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I have heard that also for what it's worth. And for targets I was told 8-10 interviews by my PD but I am at an academic MD program so take that for what it's worth for whatever your situation might be.
It varies so much by program. Some do waves, others do trickles as people cancel. There are a lot of programs in states like Florida and New York that send out later. Most I know for PCCM had the majority of their invites by early September; however, there were a few who heard from places mid-late September. As far as target, 8-10 for an MD coming from an academic place seems reasonable. A DO coming from a community program, without other things to boost their app (research, chief year, etc) might want to aim for more.
 
Man, I'm starting to get nervous with the number of invites I have. Feel like there's not anymore coming and this is going to be my rank list
 
Man, I'm starting to get nervous with the number of invites I have. Feel like there's not anymore coming and this is going to be my rank list
There is still time. Even though interviews are virtual, they get exhausting and people start to drop some.
 
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I am going to be canceling a few interviews this week so hopefully those will trickle out to others!
 
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I have a strong suspicion that we're (and by we I mean, I) are not getting any more interviews at this point :/
 
I have a strong suspicion that we're (and by we I mean, I) are not getting any more interviews at this point :/
Theres a couple of the HCA programs that haven't listed anything on the spreadsheet! Plus you only need 1 interview!
 
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what's a usual board score cut off / filter for step 2?
I'm not sure anyone knows for sure. FREIDA has some data for individual programs but I've seen the cut offs posted on there vary big time. Some 220-230 some 200, some just passing, tough to know if any of them are accurate.
 
How's everyone holding up? Can't believe we have to wait another month and half
 
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Having an existential crisis over my rank list is where I am at right now.
The contents of your rank list? Or the order of your rank list? I'm struggling once I get past the top two programs for me.
 
It's November now. The season is coming to a close. Good luck to everyone as we all finalize rank lists!
 
Longest month ever.
 
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Anyone in this forum received an email from the Critical Care Medicine Program Director at Mayo Clinic Rochester MN, offering a two-year fellowship? I'm a bit confused and seeking insights. I'm trying to understand if this is a general email that has been slightly modified to appear personalized, encouraging recipients to rank the program highly. Or is it being sent individually to candidates they are particularly interested in? Any shared experiences or information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
 
1 week until match day :oops:.

Does anyone have any specific plans?
I'll be on nights. Going to wake up from my slumber to open the email. So nervous lol
 
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Either happy or sad crying
Same lol. I will be in clinic and its going to be weird opening my email with everyone around me.

I've kinda just accepted my fate at this point. If I get in thats great but if not at least i can proudly say I did my best and focus on applying on hospitalist gigs. but atleast theres no more asking what if and I can finally focus on something.
 
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Same lol. I will be in clinic and its going to be weird opening my email with everyone around me.

I've kinda just accepted my fate at this point. If I get in thats great but if not at least i can proudly say I did my best and focus on applying on hospitalist gigs. but atleast theres no more asking what if and I can finally focus on something.
Agree
 
Well for better or for worse this process is finally over.
 
Didn't match and had to work the rest of the day. Pretty Depressing. A couple programs went unmatched so well see if they are interested. but at this point i'm happy to just become a hospitalist and move on with my life.
 
Didn't match and had to work the rest of the day. Pretty Depressing. A couple programs went unmatched so well see if they are interested. but at this point i'm happy to just become a hospitalist and move on with my life.
Is there a soap process or do you just have to reach out manually?
 
hang in there for those who did not match

do NOT take any cold calls from Nephrology programs promising you about critical care.

you want PULMONARY critical care not Nephrology and no guarantee of critical care.

do research, get more letters, and apply again and you will get in eventually
 
hang in there for those who did not match

do NOT take any cold calls from Nephrology programs promising you about critical care.

you want PULMONARY critical care not Nephrology and no guarantee of critical care.

do research, get more letters, and apply again and you will get in eventually
Theres a lot of ID PDs making phone calls as well and making this promise. Its tempting to take up.
 
Theres a lot of ID PDs making phone calls as well and making this promise. Its tempting to take up.
if you are somehow confirmed to get CCM as well you can consider it.

but think to your future. CCM is not a lifelong career. some do it into their older age. but it leads to much burnout. you want that chill pulmonary to fall back onto

while the logic is "ill have chill ID to fall back on" the issue is there really are not abundant jobs out there ID-CCM or renal - CCM.
 
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if you are somehow confirmed to get CCM as well you can consider it.

but think to your future. CCM is not a lifelong career. some do it into their older age. but it leads to much burnout. you want that chill pulmonary to fall back onto

while the logic is "ill have chill ID to fall back on" the issue is there really are not abundant jobs out there ID-CCM or renal - CCM.
I second that. Very hard to get a renal-CCM job. Problem is that most Nephrology jobs are private practice, and most CCM jobs are hospital employed or CMGs.
Both departments will want to work you full-time, but honestly you can at best do half Critical Care and half Nephrology. If it’s a very small hospital like mine, you can do both in the same day but it is just not realistic 10 to 12 ICU patients and 12 to 15 Nephrology patients in a real hospital setting on the same day. Even less realistic to do CCM in the morning and do clinic or dialysis rounds in the afternoon.
 
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Need advice, if medical student finishing residency did not get matched to top 3 pulm and crit care programs in his list and the location desired to live the next 3 years.
what are the options if he/she didnot take the fellowship? does that happen a lot?
is it possible to match after two year of work in the same city desired to do fellowship?
Does the university needs more publication to consider you during th working period?
 
Need advice, if medical student finishing residency did not get matched to top 3 pulm and crit care programs in his list and the location desired to live the next 3 years.
what are the options if he/she didnot take the fellowship? does that happen a lot?
is it possible to match after two year of work in the same city desired to do fellowship?
Does the university needs more publication to consider you during th working period?
I am not sure I fully understand the question. If you are saying you matched but do not want to attend the program you matched at then that is a violation of your match contract which requires you to show up day one and work for at least 45 days. If you do this NRMP has the ability to either temporarily or permanently ban you from future matches. Based on what I have read they'll at least ban you for a few years. If you do not want to do fellowship again then you could do this although it leaves the program hanging. There are match waivers but it sounds like they can be very challenging to acquire and usually involve things like family member getting cancer or such circumstances. The program cannot release you from the contract; it has to be NRMP.

If this is the case, can I ask why you ranked the program if you are considering withdrawing from the match?
 
I am not sure I fully understand the question. If you are saying you matched but do not want to attend the program you matched at then that is a violation of your match contract which requires you to show up day one and work for at least 45 days. If you do this NRMP has the ability to either temporarily or permanently ban you from future matches. Based on what I have read they'll at least ban you for a few years. If you do not want to do fellowship again then you could do this although it leaves the program hanging. There are match waivers but it sounds like they can be very challenging to acquire and usually involve things like family member getting cancer or such circumstances. The program cannot release you from the contract; it has to be NRMP.

If this is the case, can I ask why you ranked the program if you are considering withdrawing from the match?
I was hoping to be matched to one of the programs in the city. I had it ranked as a fallback. It is not I don't wanted it, but prefered bigger city...instead of school town.,
in general I want to see what are the options if you don't accept to join and work for few years and reapply .
 
I was hoping to be matched to one of the programs in the city. I had it ranked as a fallback. It is not I don't wanted it, but prefered bigger city...instead of school town.,
in general I want to see what are the options if you don't accept to join and work for few years and reapply .
Ah okay. So yeah in that case you can withdraw from your contract but like I said NRMP will likely label you a match violator and hand out either a temporary or permanent ban. I believe which one they do is at their discretion but you might get for info in the general resident forum.

@Doctor Bob might have more insight.

edit: You also risk the program you matched at badmouthing you to other programs. It's not a huge field at the end of the day.
 
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I was hoping to be matched to one of the programs in the city. I had it ranked as a fallback. It is not I don't wanted it, but prefered bigger city...instead of school town.,
in general I want to see what are the options if you don't accept to join and work for few years and reapply .
Don’t withdraw from contract. It will seriously impair further chances of practicing pulm/cc.
 
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if you had no intentions of going to this smaller city, you should not have ranked it.
be glad you matched .

just think about all of those PCCM candidates who DID NOT MATCH who would gladly take your spot if you left it. Would you want to be in those candidate's shoes? Getting renal fellowship cold calls and emails lol?
 
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I was hoping to be matched to one of the programs in the city. I had it ranked as a fallback. It is not I don't wanted it, but prefered bigger city...instead of school town.,
in general I want to see what are the options if you don't accept to join and work for few years and reapply .
I hope you realize that Pulm/Crit is getting competitive and harder to match to. If you're okay with not matching to the specialty in the future and have other back up options, it's probably okay to withdraw at this point. Otherwise, just stick to it for 3 years and then you can move to wherever you want.
 
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I was hoping to be matched to one of the programs in the city. I had it ranked as a fallback. It is not I don't wanted it, but prefered bigger city...instead of school town.,
in general I want to see what are the options if you don't accept to join and work for few years and reapply .
As @rockstar88 said - There are people on this very thread who would kill to have your current spot. You shouldn't have ranked if you didn't want to go. In theory you could try doing residencyswap.com but that in of itself is a huge risk. Be thankful and become a great doctor
 
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if you are somehow confirmed to get CCM as well you can consider it.

but think to your future. CCM is not a lifelong career. some do it into their older age. but it leads to much burnout. you want that chill pulmonary to fall back onto

while the logic is "ill have chill ID to fall back on" the issue is there really are not abundant jobs out there ID-CCM or renal - CCM.

It's not easy to work critical care for 10-20 years and then go work as a pulmonologist when you tire of the ICU. Your pulm skills and knowledge of evolving therapeutics will be well out of date.
CCM is not a lifelong career for people who started by doing it half-time and then got a job where they have to do it full time. But for people who get into it knowing what it is, it's more sustainable long term. Emergency medicine had the same issue. When the field was young, people worked in the ED doing occasional coverage between their clinic weeks, but then ended up working there permanently, and it was hard to do years down the road. It's easier and more sustainable for people who went into the specialty from med school knowing what they were signing up for.

Need advice, if medical student finishing residency did not get matched to top 3 pulm and crit care programs in his list and the location desired to live the next 3 years.
what are the options if he/she didnot take the fellowship? does that happen a lot?
is it possible to match after two year of work in the same city desired to do fellowship?
Does the university needs more publication to consider you during th working period?

It was a bad idea to rank a place that you had no interest in going to.

At the moment you have a binding contract between you, that program, and NRMP. There would have to be a petition to NRMP to void the contract and release you from the program. If that's what you choose to do, the program will be eager to push it along because they don't want a fellow who has no interest in being there and they can't try to fill their spot until the NRMP waiver is completed.

For you that route is the end of your critical care career.

NRMP might only prevent you from participating for a few years if there's a hardship event... but for something like "I don't want to live in that city", your penalty is likely to be much harsher.

Even if NRMP was kind and only blocked you for a few years, when the interview cycle comes around again in a few years and you have to answer why you withdrew from the match, your answer is going to be a huuuuge red flag to a program and would far overshadow anything you could possibly do to improve your application. If you lie about it and don't mention that you matched and then broke your contract, you run the risk of a program discovering it (and we do occasionally compare application lists to previous years because a name just tickles the back of our brain and we want to see if they applied before), and then your application would at best be thrown in the garbage and at worst I'd call ERAS.

edit: You also risk the program you matched at badmouthing you to other programs. It's not a huge field at the end of the day.

Yep... The APCCMPD (association of pulmonary and critical care medicine program directors) annual conference still fits inside of a small hotel conference room. And we certainly all talk.
 
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If someone is interested in a Point of Care Ultrasound fellowship position at a very nice place starting July 2024 please email me on here or at [email protected]

I did this fellowship and enjoyed it very much, and it helped my pulm/crit fellowship application significantly. If POCUS is something you like I highly recommend doing it. (For both EM and IM candidates).
 
The match process is so insanely weird. Some people match and are ecstatic. Some match and are bummed since they fell down their list. Some don't match and are crushed. I'm so insanely grateful to have matched. But man, I'm a bit bummed with how far I dropped. But I know I'm really lucky. Anyone else feel similar?
 
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The match process is so insanely weird. Some people match and are ecstatic. Some match and are bummed since they fell down their list. Some don't match and are crushed. I'm so insanely grateful to have matched. But man, I'm a bit bummed with how far I dropped. But I know I'm really lucky. Anyone else feel similar?
The match was brutal this year. Its still competitive. I really was lying to myself to think I had a chance to even match.
 
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The match process is so insanely weird. Some people match and are ecstatic. Some match and are bummed since they fell down their list. Some don't match and are crushed. I'm so insanely grateful to have matched. But man, I'm a bit bummed with how far I dropped. But I know I'm really lucky. Anyone else feel similar?
I think there's always some post-match dysphoria. We are ranking programs sight unseen after all so there's always going to be a what if factor.

The match was brutal this year. Its still competitive. I really was lying to myself to think I had a chance to even match.

I'm truly sorry you did not match. The process is brutal to us sometimes.
 
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The match was brutal this year. Its still competitive. I really was lying to myself to think I had a chance to even match.
get more research done and get some publications out
get more connections
do that POCUS fellowship above maybe
do things to strengthen your resume while working as hospitalist or something

try again, cast your net more broadly and you will match again later on

but the love of whatever deity you believe in, ignore all Nephrology fellowship emails
 
The match was brutal this year. Its still competitive. I really was lying to myself to think I had a chance to even match.
It was a **** show man. I'm sorry it turned out that way.
 
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Hey, so I matched in CCM which was pretty far down my list. I‘m actually kinda thrilled because I got a good vibe off the program but I’m a little worried about the job market later. Anyone have any insight or pointers? BTW guys honestly this was a brutal match and I‘m just glad to move forwards, best of luck to the rest of you, this thread was a major support for me
 
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