This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I didn't think fellowship interviews were any more formal than residency interview.

Well, it seemed like medicine interviews were mostly recruitment speeches about why you should come to their program, and you only had 2-3 interviews.

Fellowship was 5-7 interviews, "tell me about your research" "Why do you want to come here". So not intense really, but just more to the point, on topic questions/discussion. Also 30-45 minutes each, vs 15-20 minutes for residency.

Much different deal when 400 applicants are vying for 40 interview positions for 3-4 slots, than when they are interviewing hundreds of people for 30-45 spots. I can only speak to GI though.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
I didn't think fellowship interviews were any more formal than residency interview.

Yeah I agree. I thought fellowship interviews were about the same as residency interviews... Both were pretty much relaxed. I imagine GI could be different though
 
Yeah I agree. I thought fellowship interviews were about the same as residency interviews... Both were pretty much relaxed. I imagine GI could be different though

Well. They take themselves very seriously. Scoping the anus is serious business. Life and death kind of business. We both know that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Whats the view on Miami programs?

Are they any good? match placement, quality of training etc. Great area....is it easier to find jobs in Miami if you train there. I'm a DO
 
View on IM at Hawaii.

What is the view on IM at Hawaii? Is it any good? I see that DO students attend there as well- how do they place for fellowships at Hawaii? How about job placements in hawaii- do they have preference for Hawaii trained? Is it competitive? How come its not discussed as much- I'm sure its not on the same level as Harvard but still-amazing climate....
 
View on IM at Hawaii.

What is the view on IM at Hawaii? Is it any good? I see that DO students attend there as well- how do they place for fellowships at Hawaii? How about job placements in hawaii- do they have preference for Hawaii trained? Is it competitive? How come its not discussed as much- I'm sure its not on the same level as Harvard but still-amazing climate....

I have 2 friends who finished their residency there a few years ago. Both of them applied for fellowship (one for GI and one for pulm/cc) and couldn't get a spot and ended in primary care. The program has only a small cards fellowship (2 fellows per year) and that's it. Any mid-tier university program on mainland is better than going there. It's very expensive to live in Hawaii in case you haven't noticed.

Now you're asking about Miami and Hawaii. Dude ... if you have this dream in your mind about living residency as an ongoing vacation, just forget about it. These areas are good places to retire and end your career, but not a place to start one even if PC is your thing.
 
I have 2 friends who finished their residency there a few years ago. Both of them applied for fellowship (one for GI and one for pulm/cc) and couldn't get a spot and ended in primary care. The program has only a small cards fellowship (2 fellows per year) and that's it. Any mid-tier university program on mainland is better than going there. It's very expensive to live in Hawaii in case you haven't noticed.

Now you're asking about Miami and Hawaii. Dude ... if you have this dream in your mind about living residency as an ongoing vacation, just forget about it. These areas are good places to retire and end your career, but not a place to start one even if PC is your thing.

I know I know- but I'm sick and tired of the cold. I want to be in a place for 6 years- do IM plus fellowship- Cards. not looking for a vacation at all- just a place where I don't have to wear a miserable jacket and to relax in the evenings I can surf or do something more fun than sitting inside a cold apartment watching TV.

I definitely don't want to end up in primary care so the next question is- how hard is it to get a job in any of these places in a desirable location. My next area to look into would be california with all its problems and then texas.

I guess states like Tennessee and Kentucky South Carolina arent too bad but they dont inspire the same image as coastal states.
 
I know I know- but I'm sick and tired of the cold. I want to be in a place for 6 years- do IM plus fellowship- Cards. not looking for a vacation at all- just a place where I don't have to wear a miserable jacket and to relax in the evenings I can surf or do something more fun than sitting inside a cold apartment watching TV.

I definitely don't want to end up in primary care so the next question is- how hard is it to get a job in any of these places in a desirable location. My next area to look into would be california with all its problems and then texas.

I guess states like Tennessee and Kentucky South Carolina arent too bad but they dont inspire the same image as coastal states.

I don't necessarily agree but I understand why people would hate the cold. If you're looking for plenty of sun and beaches, then some of the Florida and California programs have a better reputation and set you for fellowship better than Hawaii.
 
I don't necessarily agree but I understand why people would hate the cold. If you're looking for plenty of sun and beaches, then some of the Florida and California programs have a better reputation and set you for fellowship better than Hawaii.

I've heard similar issues with Florida- being almost as bad as Hawaii apparently. Texas seems nice but as a DO seems hard to find a good residency program that also takes DOs for cards fellowships. I was looking into San antonio- love the location and everything about it but not too many are DOs in its cards fellowship.
My homestate university program is very DO friendly. Out of the 7 cards spots 3 went to DOs last year. So I would love to attend my home area as well- its no back up-not easy to get in but still- its in a cold area and I'd like to get out of here.

I have similar issues with California and its placement. not exactly a fan of that either- most of the DOs I know are in community programs and that seems like too much of a risk for me.

Would it be easy for me to find a job in texas/ SC/ etc if I don't train there?

I honestly don't care about salary as long as its reasonably above say 250k
 
I honestly don't care about salary as long as its reasonably above say 250k

That was funny! I hope it was meant as a joke!

You have to work on your priorities dude because you're all over the place. Is it a decent residency program? in-house cards fellowship? DO-friendly program? sun and beaches? > 250k? easy job placement?

Being a DO I'm afraid you might not be able to achieve all of that at once you know.
 
I guess states like ...South Carolina arent too bad but they dont inspire the same image as coastal states.
South Carolina is on the coast... MUSC is 5 minutes from some excellent beaches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
South Carolina is on the coast... MUSC is 5 minutes from some excellent beaches.
Cracks me up. Never heard of a little city called Charleston?! One of the ORIGINAL colonial sea ports?
Haha. Have an interview there in 3 wk.
 
I know I'm getting old a crotchety, but it seems that this millennial generation that is being to hit residency seems to miss the forest for the trees on a much more regular basis than in the past. Maybe med school needs to have a "priorities" class, where you are told what they are and why they are important, and in this class they also could discuss what isn't important.

Lifestyle in residency. Lol.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I've heard similar issues with Florida- being almost as bad as Hawaii apparently. Texas seems nice but as a DO seems hard to find a good residency program that also takes DOs for cards fellowships. I was looking into San antonio- love the location and everything about it but not too many are DOs in its cards fellowship.
My homestate university program is very DO friendly. Out of the 7 cards spots 3 went to DOs last year. So I would love to attend my home area as well- its no back up-not easy to get in but still- its in a cold area and I'd like to get out of here.

I have similar issues with California and its placement. not exactly a fan of that either- most of the DOs I know are in community programs and that seems like too much of a risk for me.

Would it be easy for me to find a job in texas/ SC/ etc if I don't train there?

I honestly don't care about salary as long as its reasonably above say 250k

Frankly, you have your head up your ass. Reality check: You are a DO trying to get a cards fellowship. You should be willing to do residency in Alaska if they had the best chance of getting your ultimate career goal. You are going to need to pump out multiple publications to get any traction outside of your ultimate home program. Residency is 3 years, of which you only have 2 years to get your application together unless you want to take a hospitalist year.

Get your priorities straight or you will soon be posting in the, "did not match, now what?" fellowship thread.
 
Frankly, you have your head up your ass. Reality check: You are a DO trying to get a cards fellowship. You should be willing to do residency in Alaska if they had the best chance of getting your ultimate career goal. You are going to need to pump out multiple publications to get any traction outside of your ultimate home program. Residency is 3 years, of which you only have 2 years to get your application together unless you want to take a hospitalist year.

Get your priorities straight or you will soon be posting in the, "did not match, now what?" fellowship thread.

Well- I see a lot of DOs getting into ACGME cardiology spots all over the country in a variety of relatively very good places- all the way from Cleveland Clinic and Mayo and UPMC to all sorts of regional places all across the country. Suggesting that as a DO it is so hard that I will have to be satsified with Alaska is a bit of a stretch. Actually, whats insulting is that you would insinuate that somehow Alaska is so far out there that absolutely no one would want to go there- how about the people who train in Alaska- the WWAMI regional program for them. Who is to say that Alaska would take me in the first place knowing full well I would probably leave there? I doubt they're that stupid.

DO or not, once you get into IM unless you're gunning for the powerhouse places like Harvard, fellowship places less emphasis on DO/MD than say the institution you trained at (their own, how competitive the residency was etc), the type of person you are etc etc all facts I'm sure you know full well.

My head is not up my ass thank you very much- I'm attempting to make reasoned and informed decisions. Just because I am a DO should not preclude me from trying to accumulate all the information I can to make the best educated guess as to where I should end up.

Should I go ahead and do my residency at Florida when word on the street is it may be difficult to get fellowships even in Florida or out of there?

I would have my head up my ass if I was gunning for UPMC or Mayo only or even including it almost exclusively. I am not.

Thanks.
 
imo he answered your question. the DO tag sticks with you even if you aren't in a AOA residency program. Go to the one that gives you the best chance of matching into cards. At the end its your decision. Is it worth more to you to be in warm weather? then go by all means. no need to get all defensive.
 
Well- I see a lot of DOs getting into ACGME cardiology spots all over the country in a variety of relatively very good places- all the way from Cleveland Clinic and Mayo and UPMC to all sorts of regional places all across the country. Suggesting that as a DO it is so hard that I will have to be satsified with Alaska is a bit of a stretch. Actually, whats insulting is that you would insinuate that somehow Alaska is so far out there that absolutely no one would want to go there- how about the people who train in Alaska- the WWAMI regional program for them. Who is to say that Alaska would take me in the first place knowing full well I would probably leave there? I doubt they're that stupid.

DO or not, once you get into IM unless you're gunning for the powerhouse places like Harvard, fellowship places less emphasis on DO/MD than say the institution you trained at (their own, how competitive the residency was etc), the type of person you are etc etc all facts I'm sure you know full well.

My head is not up my ass thank you very much- I'm attempting to make reasoned and informed decisions. Just because I am a DO should not preclude me from trying to accumulate all the information I can to make the best educated guess as to where I should end up.

Should I go ahead and do my residency at Florida when word on the street is it may be difficult to get fellowships even in Florida or out of there?

I would have my head up my ass if I was gunning for UPMC or Mayo only or even including it almost exclusively. I am not.

Thanks.

I said Alaska for the weather, which seems to be your priority, not as a knock to Alaska. The point is sometimes you make short term sacrifices to reach your long term goals.

I agree with your bolded statement, but your only posts have asked about a) Salary and b) Programs in desirable locations. That tells me your priorities are not straight. I'm glad you would be comfortable making >250k, but thats is hardly the point as an MS3.

While you may see a DO here and there at great program, they are exceptional candidates with large productive research backgrounds, often with a mentor connection. Is that you?
 
When I play chess, unless I have a move that immediately tactically sound, I play for strategy. You have to maximize all of your advantages to your advantage, or else you get exactly what you deserve, often an embarrassing loss.
 
When I play chess, unless I have a move that immediately tactically sound, I play for strategy. You have to maximize all of your advantages to your advantage, or else you get exactly what you deserve, often an embarrassing loss.

Maybe, but I think the analogies are misplaced. I'm learning to play chess in this case. Not actually playing. I'm ascertaining all the information out there, good bad worthwhile. How can I know what a good residency is without knowing all that is or is not available out there?

And one would be surprised at the number of DOs in cardiology. UPMC alone has 6 or 7 out of 20 or so who are DOs in the previous year.

Its not really here and there in terms of DO matches- though it can appear that way- many regional programs have regular DO placements around 30-40% of their total group number every year. that is a consistent and relatively high number- you have to consider that most of the DOs interested in fellowships go through the DO track to begin with. Its not just about selection but self selection as well.

I know my posts don't paint a full picture of my intentions but this is another issue I have with comments students like myself make on these forums. What I mean is- its important for us to learn as much as possible here. There are major changes taking place and the effects are broad and substantive.

Money is not everything but with so many physicians of previous generations and not just mine choosing ROAD specialties or stating compensation and burnout have affected them extensively - not discussing such topics about money and lifestyle openly only seeds the depression and anger that has plagued like weeds each generation of physicians. This is not unique to the "millennials" but rather the physicians of all ages- is it any wonder that I routinely hear doctors several decades older claiming that medicine is not what it used to be and the salaries are terrible. Who else but your age group sets the stage for us to consider the work opportunities available to us.

Medicine is not just about sacrifice- and its becoming as tired a trope as possible to insult the "naive and gold digging" students who are only in it for the money. There is no reason to become defensive. Its important to ascertain as much information as possible no matter how unattractive it may be.

The reason why the "priorities" appear twisted on these forums isn't simply because we only care about money. its also because these are the questions that are hardest to ask in public or generally research. Its much easier for me to identify what career I want based on its humanitarian and intellectual appeal. its much harder for me to ask a physician- even my mentor- how much a Cardiologist or any other doctor makes without broaching obvious personnel and social etiquette- etiquette that doesnt exactly have boundaries online.
 
Maybe, but I think the analogies are misplaced. I'm learning to play chess in this case. Not actually playing. I'm ascertaining all the information out there, good bad worthwhile. How can I know what a good residency is without knowing all that is or is not available out there?

And one would be surprised at the number of DOs in cardiology. UPMC alone has 6 or 7 out of 20 or so who are DOs in the previous year.

Its not really here and there in terms of DO matches- though it can appear that way- many regional programs have regular DO placements around 30-40% of their total group number every year. that is a consistent and relatively high number- you have to consider that most of the DOs interested in fellowships go through the DO track to begin with. Its not just about selection but self selection as well.

I know my posts don't paint a full picture of my intentions but this is another issue I have with comments students like myself make on these forums. What I mean is- its important for us to learn as much as possible here. There are major changes taking place and the effects are broad and substantive.

Money is not everything but with so many physicians of previous generations and not just mine choosing ROAD specialties or stating compensation and burnout have affected them extensively - not discussing such topics about money and lifestyle openly only seeds the depression and anger that has plagued like weeds each generation of physicians. This is not unique to the "millennials" but rather the physicians of all ages- is it any wonder that I routinely hear doctors several decades older claiming that medicine is not what it used to be and the salaries are terrible. Who else but your age group sets the stage for us to consider the work opportunities available to us.

Medicine is not just about sacrifice- and its becoming as tired a trope as possible to insult the "naive and gold digging" students who are only in it for the money. There is no reason to become defensive. Its important to ascertain as much information as possible no matter how unattractive it may be.

The reason why the "priorities" appear twisted on these forums isn't simply because we only care about money. its also because these are the questions that are hardest to ask in public or generally research. Its much easier for me to identify what career I want based on its humanitarian and intellectual appeal. its much harder for me to ask a physician- even my mentor- how much a Cardiologist or any other doctor makes without broaching obvious personnel and social etiquette- etiquette that doesnt exactly have boundaries online.

That's actually a reasonable answer. It is fine to have a career/life plan, and it is fine if money influences that decision, but be prepared to evolve based on clinical exposure. Plenty of people change their planned subspecialty during residency.

All I am saying (sorry if you dont play poker) is, you are playing the game like you have pocket kings, and you are holding jack, 7 offsuit. You can still win with the hand you have, but you have to play it smart.
 
That's actually a reasonable answer. It is fine to have a career/life plan, and it is fine if money influences that decision, but be prepared to evolve based on clinical exposure. Plenty of people change their planned subspecialty during residency.

All I am saying (sorry if you dont play poker) is, you are playing the game like you have pocket kings, and you are holding jack, 7 offsuit. You can still win with the hand you have, but you have to play it smart.

I agree. The more I hear about the issues at hand for physicians the more turned off I become to the whole endeavor. I'm more upset at the difficult road ahead for me as a physician- would I like a nice income? absolutely - but I also intend to play it smart and that means learning just what hand I really have. I'll do you one plus to your analogy. I've got the cards, they're just not face up and I don't know yet what I have while I calculate my odds :)
 
And one would be surprised at the number of DOs in cardiology. UPMC alone has 6 or 7 out of 20 or so who are DOs in the previous year.

It seems like the midwest is much more DO friendly, even taking overall school competitiveness into account, than the coasts. This is especially true for UPMC. Some states, e.g. California, are especially DO unfriendly with even some community programs rejecting all DO applications for residency. I would suggesting looking at a statistically significant number of programs (especially in states you're interested in) to ascertain fellowship chances.
 
Anyone who interviewed at CCF or BU, what was your interview experience like?
 
Does anyone know much about the UMC program in Jackson? It seems to be getting positive remarks from people in the southeast

1) How is the autonomy in regards to faculty?
2) Is living in Jackson better then it would appear?
3) Any other info on the program would be appreciated
 
It seems like the midwest is much more DO friendly, even taking overall school competitiveness into account, than the coasts. This is especially true for UPMC. Some states, e.g. California, are especially DO unfriendly with even some community programs rejecting all DO applications for residency. I would suggesting looking at a statistically significant number of programs (especially in states you're interested in) to ascertain fellowship chances.

Peanut gallery here. But, am I the only one that thinks it's odd to call UPMC "Midwest"? I mean, it's not Philly, but...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Peanut gallery here. But, am I the only one that thinks it's odd to call UPMC "Midwest"? I mean, it's not Philly, but...
I thought it was ridiculous too. Esp from LECOM-Erie just 2 hr north...definitely NOT Midwest LOL
 
Whats the take on WVU's internal medicine program? I've heard its a good regional one and its other residencies- like EM tend to get a good review. Whats the understanding about WVU's IM program?
 
Peanut gallery here. But, am I the only one that thinks it's odd to call UPMC "Midwest"? I mean, it's not Philly, but...

I agree. You and I and from the approximate same part of the country, and this is the midwest and P-burgh is NOT midwest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Does anyone know much about the UMC program in Jackson? It seems to be getting positive remarks from people in the southeast

1) How is the autonomy in regards to faculty?
2) Is living in Jackson better then it would appear?
3) Any other info on the program would be appreciated

It's the best IM program in Mississippi. That's about it.
 
Hey! I would appreciate any thoughts on Vandy vs WashU vs Cornell?
 
Thoughts on Georgetown's IM program?

From what I remember.... the PD is fantastic and everyone there was very nice. Being in DC is of course awesome for health policy. A few things that bothered me about the program:
1. the EMR is basically non-existent, from what i remember you even had to write orders by hand
2. caribbean IMGs (they even gave the carib IMG who was interviewing a hat for traveling the farthest...way to shine a spotlight on something that's not particularly flattering for the program)
3. coasting a bit on it's name (much like tufts) rather than the strength of it's program which showed in the fellowship match list
4. the salary is only 50k in a notoriously expensive city ....strange
 
Any thoughts on Westchester Medical Center's IM program? I just got an email inviting me to interview (yep, this late in the game) and was reluctant to accept since it is so late. Is this a must see program? (I have completed several other interviews.) Thanks.
 
Any thoughts on Westchester Medical Center's IM program? I just got an email inviting me to interview (yep, this late in the game) and was reluctant to accept since it is so late. Is this a must see program? (I have completed several other interviews.) Thanks.

A must see: definitely not. Whether you should go depends on where it would end up on your match list and your chances of matching at the other programs on your list.
 
Any thoughts on Westchester Medical Center's IM program? I just got an email inviting me to interview (yep, this late in the game) and was reluctant to accept since it is so late. Is this a must see program? (I have completed several other interviews.) Thanks.
Define "several". 5 or 14? IMG, DO or AMG? If IMG, did you see that IMG specific NRMP breakdown that was recently posted? How good do you feel about your chances at this point based on where you've interviewed so far?

If you total IV # will be <10 without WMC then I think you should go. If you're pushing 20 IVs then bag it. The only thing "special" about it is that they offered you an interview and it is clearly a better program than Home Depot.
 
Sorry, should have been specific. DO applicant. Received 21 interviews, will go on 14 total. I'm feeling pretty confident at this point. I was just curious since it was a program with several fellowship options, but didn't know much about it.

(Also, just realized as I was going through emails - they rejected me back in the fall. Ha)

Define "several". 5 or 14? IMG, DO or AMG? If IMG, did you see that IMG specific NRMP breakdown that was recently posted? How good do you feel about your chances at this point based on where you've interviewed so far?

If you total IV # will be <10 without WMC then I think you should go. If you're pushing 20 IVs then bag it. The only thing "special" about it is that they offered you an interview and it is clearly a better program than Home Depot.
 
Last edited:
Sorry, should have been specific. DO applicant. Received 21 interviews, will go on 14 total. I'm feeling pretty confident at this point. I was just curious since it was a program with several fellowship options, but didn't know much about it.

(Also, just realized as I was going through emails - they rejected me back in the fall. Ha)

Then the answer to your original question is "no". Don't bother.
 
after going through this process.... it pains me to admit this.... but Downstate is underwhelming. Its the only place I have interviewed at where the University hospital looks worse and treat less complicated cases than the corresponding county hospital.
 
after going through this process.... it pains me to admit this.... but Downstate is underwhelming. Its the only place I have interviewed at where the University hospital looks worse and treat less complicated cases than the corresponding county hospital.
Most of my classmates tried to get rotations at Kings County because it was a better experience in every possible way. The only rotation I actually did at UHB was Neuro. I chose county for everything else.
 
Any thoughts about Emory IM program? Seems to have the largest housestaff program in the country with 87 PG1 spots. Any huge disadvantage to going to such a large program? http://medicine.emory.edu/education/residency/our-program/13-14-housestaff
I went to the preinterview dinner, spoke with the residents, but still did not leave with a clear picture of the program. The PD seems like a nice guy, but I did not quite connect with him. My impression is that he has the resident's back but is a stern and formal person who shows less emotion than the average PD.
 
Any thoughts about Emory IM program? Seems to have the largest housestaff program in the country with 87 PG1 spots. Any huge disadvantage to going to such a large program? http://medicine.emory.edu/education/residency/our-program/13-14-housestaff
I went to the preinterview dinner, spoke with the residents, but still did not leave with a clear picture of the program. The PD seems like a nice guy, but I did not quite connect with him. My impression is that he has the resident's back but is a stern and formal person who shows less emotion than the average PD.

I did not apply or interview there. However, they did not fill around 4-5 years ago, and my impression is that they think they are better than they really are. Also has a reputation for being somewhat malignant. That said, if you go there and do well all of the top tier programs and fellowships will be open to you.
 
I think the biggest issue with the program is the size and location, but those are both personal biases on my part.

While it's true that they didn't fill a couple of years ago, the same is true of Duke. One year can be an aberration and shouldn't be used to judge a program.

One upside to the size of the place is that you won't want for research or mentorship opportunities.
 
right. size is my biggest concern as well. thanks for the input. reaffirms that the program is strong enough to not hold a person back.
 
I interviewed at Emory for IM residency 3 years ago and I have a close friend doing residency there as well. It is a HUGE program. Lots and lots of residents. My impression from the dinner was that some of the residents were like meeting each other for the first time! They seemed happy though. They take IMGs every year. I didn't get a good impression after meeting the PD either. I still ranked them #3 on my list because of their good reputation.

What I remember my friend telling me about the program: It's difficult to get noticed there, all fellowships are easy to get in decent programs, research is quite available, solid training but somewhat malignant and abusive, Grady Hospital is an awful experience and again the size of program is overwhelming and can be annoying.
 
Any thoughts on the relative strengths of Stanford vs. Penn?
 
Any thoughts on the relative strengths of Stanford vs. Penn?
My understanding is that Penn>Stanford. They have a better national reputation. Stanford is great if you want to get involved in baller research with world renowned researchers while having a relatively cush residency. Also Palo alto probably has the best weather in the country. With that said I would go with Upenn over Stanford in a heart beat.
 
Top