Podiatrist vs Dentist income

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B

BodybldgDoc

some make more, some make less...overally...who cares really? You'll make a very good living and as long as you're happy with your career choice, then it shouldn't matter which profession makes more - because there are so many variables involved for that comparison by the way.

Anyway, this was discussed before so feel free to do a search in this forum for further answers if this matters.
 
Podman said:
some make more, some make less...overally...who cares really? You'll make a very good living and as long as you're happy with your career choice, then it shouldn't matter which profession makes more - because there are so many variables involved for that comparison by the way.

Anyway, this was discussed before so feel free to do a search in this forum for further answers if this matters.
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Agreed. In the end, they both do very well.
 
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You can review the income link on this forum for some specifics. I do understand the concern though. I feel like I'm gambling a little bit here going into an enormous debt for an uncertain income. But this is what I want to do and I can't deny that. I've heard (personally) of pods making anywhere from 30K/yr to over 500K! There is a huge difference in earning potential and training from one pod to the next. However, now that we've standardized residency accross the board there will no longer be any confusion as to our training. From my understanding, podiatry is an area in medicine where you have to put your time in, than the payout becomes quite generous. With regards to dentistry, a lot of young dentists struggle because the overhead and expensive equipement can be so costly. I don't know of any full-time podiatrists with 10 or so years of practice making less than 100k (net), which is by my standards doing fine. Many older pods are taking on young associates and growing their practices to enormous proportions. When they retire, these young associates (potenially us :) ) take over or start their own. Good luck
 
Anyone should be happy with a 6 digit salary
 
:laugh: been times when 5 figure was questionable fo r me! I really think to many people worry about the financial side of medicine. I met a doc in the OR today that said he hated medicine but the money was great. I'd still be at my last job if I wanted a guarenteed $100k, but I want to enjoy my career and I did not. Money pays bills and smart people can make the debt go away quick enough. Those with huge amounts of debt are hopefully so well inveted it stocks, realty, etc that it really is not debt, but there are those that do not spend wisely. They need the boat the day they graduate or the house and car NOW! If you are a good pod, dentist, md, do, chiro, or even janitor you can make money.
 
BodybldgDoc said:
Do podiatrists earn more on average than a dentist? According to Monster trak, the median income for a podiatrist is higher than that of a dentist. Here is the link to the salary center on mostertrak.
http://www.monstertrak.monster.com/resources/salarycenter/resourceframe_index.html
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I believe that if you are in it for money, go into buisness. In it for people, go into medicine. Maybe that sounds a little idealistic, but for me, that is it. Of course I want to be comfortable and be able to provide for my family; who doesn't. But if that is all you want, buisness is a much easier path to money. If you go into medicine wanting to help others, enough money will come for you and yours.
 
I can guarantee you monster.com is inaccurate.
 
Pods and dentists make pretty comparable salaries just about anywhere you look. The average for either is usually around $130k with the median maybe a lil bit lower.

A classmate of mine commented that dental school and pod school lead to a job with the same average income yet pod school is a couple years longer due to residency. I agreed, but told him pod is more interesting to me and that the pod salary might increase fairly soon now that many more residency trained pods are entering practice. I also mentioned that flouridation of water supplies might make for a lot less dental problems in future generations (he mentioned more cosmetic dentistry to compensate, though, and I agree).

I think they are vastly different medical fields and you should pick the one which interests you and you will apply yourself at. There have been a few posts recently about using the DAT to get into pod school because the fields are "similar," but I don't see much similarity at all. I think comparing pod to dent is like saying psychiatrists and pediatricians have a similar career due to similar salary.

Yes, they both go to undergrad for science, study similar basic medical sciences, and make similar salaries, but that's about where the similarities end. I doubt many podiatrists could tell you the 3 layers of a tooth and what they're made of since they haven't had that since 1st semester histology. Similarly, how many dentists can even name one dorsiflexor muscle of the ankle joint? Or maybe even the two branches of the sciatic nerve? My view is that the specialties are both very needed, but comparing them is night and day... different anat, different meds, different procedures, different fields. Maybe others see it differently...
 
Well, for dentist, you don't have to worry about which school and which residency. For pod, from what I have read so far, there is difference between residency.
 
songaila said:
Well, for dentist, you don't have to worry about which school and which residency. For pod, from what I have read so far, there is difference between residency.
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That is not true. If you want to specialize out of dentistry you must worry about the same things.

If you are only interested in general podiatry (wound care, C&C, and bunions) than you don't need to worry about your school or your residency. If you want to scope ankles or perform deformity reconstruction, you do need to worry.

If you compare that to a dentist, if you want general cleaning and filling, it doe snot matter. If you want to be an orthodontist or a perform dental surgery, you need to be top dog and at a great school.
 
That's a great point Dr.Feelgood. You need to be topdog to get a residency in Dentistry.

However, it seems that it doesn't matter what school and what residency the dentist graduate, they can command six digits easily. However, I don't think that the pod can say that. From your posts, you stated that many pods "fail" because of "lower tier school and poor residency". However, I hate mouth, so, it doesn't matter either way for me.:eek:
 
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songaila said:
That's a great point Dr.Feelgood. You need to be topdog to get a residency in Dentistry.

However, it seems that it doesn't matter what school and what residency the dentist graduate, they can command six digits easily. However, I don't think that the pod can say that. From your posts, you stated that many pods "fail" because of "lower tier school and poor residency". However, I hate mouth, so, it doesn't matter either way for me.:eek:
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I don't know a pod that does not have 6 digit income. That being said, there is a big difference between 100K and the upper incomes that I have seen i.e. 500 to 600K. This BS about 30K is not true; residents make 30-40K.
 
songaila said:
Well, for dentist, you don't have to worry about which school and which residency. For pod, from what I have read so far, there is difference between residency.
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Seriously, if you went into dental and wanted to do anything more than a general dentist, you have to be in the top 10% of your class and still compete for residencies. Dental is currently saturated with students trying to make it to the top.

As for a DPM you will make more than 100k per year, even doing primary Podiatry.
 
Isnt it that Dentist works more hours than Pods. Iam just saying this seeing my dentist. Poor guy is in office all the time and due to extra saturation of Dentists in Suburbs. Its like Cut-throat. they give free dental screenings, send free coupons to homes, give accesory things for free, etc stuff. Ofcourse Pods are also in tons in Suburbs here but the Pod i shadowed worked only for M,T, & F (10am-3pm) and Wednesdays (5-8pm). And his office never sent an ads or did any aggresive marketting
 
I really do not know where you guys are getting any of your information, but it's totally wrong heh. Independent general dentists average $177,000+/yr, and dental specialists average $300,000+/yr, taken directly from the ADA website. The average for an out-of-school general dentist is $90,000. As for hours, the average dentist works LESS than 40 hours/week.
 
vize said:
I really do not know where you guys are getting any of your information, but it's totally wrong heh. Independent general dentists average $177,000+/yr, and dental specialists average $300,000+/yr, taken directly from the ADA website. The average for an out-of-school general dentist is $90,000. As for hours, the average dentist works LESS than 40 hours/week.
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No one listed dentist pay but that is about the same as a pod.
 
Podiatry Owns! It is truly an awesome specialty. I think it is the cleanest, safest, has least stress, high income in the health/medical profession. Find a health profession that matches all these categories all at once.
 
vize said:
I really do not know where you guys are getting any of your information, but it's totally wrong heh. Independent general dentists average $177,000+/yr, and dental specialists average $300,000+/yr, taken directly from the ADA website. The average for an out-of-school general dentist is $90,000. As for hours, the average dentist works LESS than 40 hours/week.
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You are correct. The difference in the numbers you state and the numbers posted above are that the ADA uses income from OWNER dentists not just salaried dentist. The numbers above are non owner salaried positions. If you were to compare a pod and dentist that has ownership in a practice the numbers would be pretty close on average. The distinction between salaried jobs and owning part of a practice is very important in when comparing salaries of any business.
 
oncogene said:
You are correct. The difference in the numbers you state and the numbers posted above are that the ADA uses income from OWNER dentists not just salaried dentist. The numbers above are non owner salaried positions. If you were to compare a pod and dentist that has ownership in a practice the numbers would be pretty close on average. The distinction between salaried jobs and owning part of a practice is very important in when comparing salaries of any business.
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This is true for pods also. Good post. :thumbup:
 
30K is not BS. Taken directly from the APMA 2005 practice summary. It says nearly 1/3 of respondents reported starting salaries between 30,000- 49,999, and podiatrists with less than 5yrs experience started at 60K. I am pre-pod too. I think it's important to be optomistic but realistic at the same time so we don't graduate more disgruntled pods.
 
FALL06 said:
30K is not BS. Taken directly from the APMA 2005 practice summary. It says nearly 1/3 of respondents reported starting salaries between 30,000- 49,999, and podiatrists with less than 5yrs experience started at 60K. I am pre-pod too. I think it's important to be optomistic but realistic at the same time so we don't graduate more disgruntled pods.
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Those numbers have been used for a number of years and are not indicative of the current state of podiatric medicine. The starting salary is 30,000 a year for RESIDENTS. Back in the day most pods did not need to do a residency and if you did not setup shop and start a new practice this is the salary you would be offered. Not true anymore. The new a better educated podiatric surgeon can generate alot more revenue for employers and they know itr and pay accordingly. Now do some grads come out and take those salaries yea, but they are puttin themselves at a huge disadvantage because if they are trained under the new programs jobs pretty abundant.
 
FALL06 said:
30K is not BS. Taken directly from the APMA 2005 practice summary. It says nearly 1/3 of respondents reported starting salaries between 30,000- 49,999, and podiatrists with less than 5yrs experience started at 60K. I am pre-pod too. I think it's important to be optomistic but realistic at the same time so we don't graduate more disgruntled pods.
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I think you might be mistaking resident salaries for practitioner salaries, though. Pod residencies usually pay somewhere in the range of 30-50k (depending on location and resident year).

Younger practitioners will always generally be the lowest paid, but I think you may be making it out to be worse than it is for DPMs fresh out of residency. Young pods brand new to a hospital or trying to buy into a group practice or start their own practice usually won't make much at first. There's no doubting that; it's the rules of the road in any profession. Few employers/senior partners will pay you a good amount until they know you to be competent and you prove that you will help them make more money. Similarly, most new practices/businesses might make little or even lose money for at least a little while while they acquire a reputation and customer base; that's expected.

This is probably your best source of info:
http://stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos075.htm#earnings

Open up the back of any major podiatry publication and you will usually see classified ads to buy/buy into practices as well as salary/partner positions offered. If you are well trained and can market yourself a bit, you can do very well.
 
I absolutely agree that most young professionals struggle at first...but it seems that most DPMs POST-residency don't tend to crack 60K before 5 or more years. I don't know how common this is but I have posted information directly from the APMA. It says nothing about being a resident, it says first year associate. Also, it even provides a figure for practicing pods with fewer than five years. Nothing wrong with it, just facts.

New to the 2005 study is information about the members' starting salary as a first-year associate. Nearly one-third of the respondents reported a starting salary of $30,000 to $49,999. As expected, the most recent graduates reported the highest starting salaries, with podiatric physicians practicing fewer than 5 years reporting starting salaries of approximately $60,000.
 
i have read this somewhere but cant recall it. But iam 100% sure that this true. I heard in some states DPMs can work as First Assists in Surgery and get paid 16% of the Surgeon's Fee just as an anyother MD or DO would get paid if he choose to First Assist. And DPMs also can do malpractice insurance for this.

Well its not podiatry exactly, but i heard some DPMs do this in their free time to generate more income. But being a DDS you will not have First Assist oppurtunities.

Can someone plzz shed more light on this issue abt DPMs working as First Assists.
 
And also as DPM, we are eligible to work as Pathology Lab directors, Open Imaging Centers, Diagnostic X-ray services. Ofcourse you cant just complete your residency and open these services. There are some online CME courses offered by ASCP (American College of pathology) or ACR (American college of radiology) that needs to be completed to be eligible to work as Director.



Although these are not Podiatry but hey one can always think about Allied health services , i.e providing these services to fellow Practicing DPMs. iam sure a DPM would love to send his patients to an MRI center or path lab for testing owned by DPM. bcoz of networking. Thats what i hope of doing along with private practice.
 
FALL06 said:
I absolutely agree that most young professionals struggle at first...but it seems that most DPMs POST-residency don't tend to crack 60K before 5 or more years. I don't know how common this is but I have posted information directly from the APMA. It says nothing about being a resident, it says first year associate. Also, it even provides a figure for practicing pods with fewer than five years. Nothing wrong with it, just facts.

New to the 2005 study is information about the members' starting salary as a first-year associate. Nearly one-third of the respondents reported a starting salary of $30,000 to $49,999. As expected, the most recent graduates reported the highest starting salaries, with podiatric physicians practicing fewer than 5 years reporting starting salaries of approximately $60,000.
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I have yet to see a resident take a job for under $100,000 a year.
 
Well that's good to hear that most are making it :thumbup: With the new standardized residency model the next generation of podiatrists will be more qualified in all areas of podiatric surgery. I wonder if our new level of training will attract some of the more involved rearfoot procedures that F and A orthos typically do...
 
FALL06 said:
I wonder if our new level of training will attract some of the more involved rearfoot procedures that F and A orthos typically do...
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I think we crossed that bridge a while ago. I have rotated with podiatrists that do any and all indicated foot and ankle procedures including pilon fx's, total ankle implants, flatfoot and charcot reconstruction, rearfoot fusions, IM nails, calc fx's, lis franc injuries, etc. I am honestly not aware of any procedure that F&A ortho does that pods do not do (well trained ones anyway).
 
FALL06 said:
Well that's good to hear that most are making it :thumbup: With the new standardized residency model the next generation of podiatrists will be more qualified in all areas of podiatric surgery. I wonder if our new level of training will attract some of the more involved rearfoot procedures that F and A orthos typically do...
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What school do you go to and what year are you?
 
FALL06 said:
I absolutely agree that most young professionals struggle at first...but it seems that most DPMs POST-residency don't tend to crack 60K before 5 or more years. I don't know how common this is but I have posted information directly from the APMA. It says nothing about being a resident, it says first year associate. Also, it even provides a figure for practicing pods with fewer than five years. Nothing wrong with it, just facts.

New to the 2005 study is information about the members' starting salary as a first-year associate. Nearly one-third of the respondents reported a starting salary of $30,000 to $49,999. As expected, the most recent graduates reported the highest starting salaries, with podiatric physicians practicing fewer than 5 years reporting starting salaries of approximately $60,000.
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There maybe confusion b/c many contracts have a salaried amount and then a percentage of billing.

(THIS IS A COMPLETELY MADE UP EXAMPLE!!!) So a pod maybe salaried at 30K but receives 25% of the first 100K, 30% of the next 100k, 40% for the next 100K, and 50% of anything above that. So he/she bills for 500K and the final income is 30K+25K+30K+ 40K+100K=225K. If you look at the contract they are are salaried at 30K, but they also have bonuses.
 
not sure about pods, but the starting rate for dentistry right out of school is around 120k a year. That is the low, if you work for a public health center, which is very rewarding. Also, with dentistry there are tons of diff specialties you can go into. Endo, or Ortho can take home over a 800k a year, which is not that uncommon. General practice dentists make around 225-300k, but i've heard of some making over a milliion a year, after paying their overhead. The great thing about dentisty, is there are many diff options to choose as a dentist, each very diff.
 
^ True I hear of dentists making over $500,000 very often. However, hearing of a podiatrist making that much is extremely extremely rare. What's the deal with that???
 
msa786 said:
^ True I hear of dentists making over $500,000 very often. However, hearing of a podiatrist making that much is extremely extremely rare. What's the deal with that???
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It's probably because it's rare for a Podiatrist to make over $500K per year.
 
I dunno if I buy that most dentists make over 500k. It's probably pretty similar... Just as many pods as dentists make 500+... Who knows though really?

Unless are you including specialties??? Like endodontists and orthodontists? It's hard to compare really.
 
Another thing to consider is need for service and supply and demand curves,

There is more need overall for dental care. More people go to a dentist before a pod. However, there are more dentists than pods.

My guess is dental is a little more stable and more profitable. But, pods have the ability to overtake dent with the procedures they do.

But, all this mute if the current healthcare system is changed.


Best advice is to do what you like the most. I chose medical because I like the variety and greater diagnosing demands from a total body perspective. Just do you!!!
 
PodunkUDPM said:
I dunno if I buy that most dentists make over 500k. It's probably pretty similar... Just as many pods as dentists make 500+... Who knows though really?

Unless are you including specialties??? Like endodontists and orthodontists? It's hard to compare really.
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Not true at all. Many, many more dentists make 500k than pods. Why? Because cosmetic dentistry is everywhere. There's no such thing as cosmetic podiatry.
 
Doctor said:
Not true at all. Many, many more dentists make 500k than pods. Why? Because cosmetic dentistry is everywhere. There's no such thing as cosmetic podiatry.
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http://www.leepodiatry.com/

I'm guessing you haven't heard of women shortening their toes to fit into jimmy choo shoes either? Like teeth, many people are self conscious about their feet. It's probably not as big as cosmetic dentistry, but it is definitely out there.
 
pieds said:
http://www.leepodiatry.com/

I'm guessing you haven't heard of women shortening their toes to fit into jimmy choo shoes either? Like teeth, many people are self conscious about their feet. It's probably not as big as cosmetic dentistry, but it is definitely out there.
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Totally Agree!!
Personally I'm very self conscious about my feet. I guess, it's easier to hide a bad toe than a bad tooth :laugh:
 
You can spit out all the statistics you want. The current residents can tell all the stories they want about the current grads signing 100K contracts and I'm happy as a lark about that information.

As I've stated many times, I'm very "aware" of what's going on in our profession due to my 20+ years in the profession and my activity in the APMA, ABPS, ACFAS and as a residency director. Additionally, I'm part of a very large successful practice.

With all that being said, I'm also very friendly with a LOT of dentists.

Forget about the dental specialties. The income of the dental specialties such as oral surgery, endodontics, periodontics, orthodontics, etc., and be STAGGERING, and very few DPM's I know of can compete with those incomes. As a matter of fact, I believe oral surgeons and orthodontists are the two top money earners according to the Wall Street Journal.

Regardless, in MY opinion, based on MY years of experience in the profession, etc., etc., and comparing your "average" DPM in general practice with your "average" dentist in general practice, I would say that the dentist has a higher average income.

I hear a lot of DPM's whining on a daily basis, but rarely if ever hear any dentists complaining. Dentists perform a lot of cosmetic and/or non covered procedures that the public "accepts".

Unfortunately, the feet are often neglected and treated as second class and patients aren't always willing to shell out their own money for their feet. If it's not covered by insurance, it may not get taken care of when it comes to feet. In dentistry, people are simply used to paying out of pocket.

I believe the average dentist has a greater income.
 
I think it depends on where you live as well though, where I'm from it is so supersaturated with dentists, every general dentist I talk to feels they competing with so many other dentists, it is hard to build a good base of clients. That being said, I would say the average over the whole US is probably dentists, but who cares, like Podman said way back

"some make more, some make less...overally...who cares really? You'll make a very good living and as long as you're happy with your career choice, then it shouldn't matter which profession makes more - because there are so many variables involved for that comparison by the way."

Just go with what interests you more, you'll make a good living either way if you enjoy what you do and you're good at it.
 
Why does everyone on this forum keep talking about feet and ankles??? I went to pediatry school to help sick children.
 
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PADPM said:
Regardless, in MY opinion, based on MY years of experience in the profession, etc., etc., and comparing your "average" DPM in general practice with your "average" dentist in general practice, I would say that the dentist has a higher average income.

I believe the average dentist has a greater income.
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As a general dentist myself, I find your comments interesting !

Right now I'm contemplating to switch out of dentistry for something else, and it's very intriguing how all of us think the grass is greener on the other side.

But I do share the sentiments of most Pods here. Most of us do come from the similiar fate of having been pre-meds, but we eventually settle for an allied health profession mostly in either dental or pod with the mentality that five-figure income + job + healthcare field are better than nothing.

I don't know anything about pod. But this I know: When it comes to prioritizing medical care and out-of-pocket expenses, people tend to ignore any feet or dental problems until there are obvious signs of pain, deformity, or disability.
 
Both won't make you rich.

Both will make you work your but off to earn your money.

Either way, hope you enjoy 10-12 hour days while making less and less year after year~!

Even government management jobs are making mroe than the average dentist or podiatrist or physician!

Nurses are making 80k pharmacists are making up to 130k.

Sorry, but you will not get rich either way.
 
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