Please help: US DO Vs. Carr. MD

[NotAProgDirector]

The other was the statement that DOs had their own neurosurgery programs. Really?!?

Really. There are 11 of them:

137462 OPTI-West/Arrowhead Regional MC/Riverside County Regional MC - Neurological Neurological Surgery Colton CA
146437 MWU/CCOM/BroMenn Regional Med Ctr - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery Bloomington IL
169707 MWU/CCOM/John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital Cook County - Neurological Surgery Reside Neurological Surgery Chicago IL
128408 Garden City Hospital - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery Garden City MI
169712 Providence Hospital - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery Southfield MI
141327 NYCOM/Saint Barnabas Medical Center - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery Livingston NJ
126116 NYCOM/Long Isl Jewish Med Ctr - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery New Hyde Park NY
126130 OUCOM/Doctors Hospital - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery Columbus OH
126154 OUCOM/Grandview Hosp & Med Ctr - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery Dayton OH
126220 Philadelphia College Osteopathic Med - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery Philadelphia PA
170276 EVVCOM/Carilion Medical Center - Neurological Surgery Residency Neurological Surgery Roanoke VA

Also, how is their interaction with the ABNS (the authority for certification of neurosurgeons)?

Residents completing osteopathic residencies are board certified by their osteopathic boards. In this case, DO's completing these residencies would be certified by the American Osteopathic Board of Surgery. They would not interact with the ABNS at all. Most hopistals consider osteopathic and allopathic board certification equivalent.

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[Vermian]

aProgDirector,

Thanks for the information. You really can learn something new every day. For me, it is nice to get a bigger perspective on the world. Hopefully I can meet some of these physicians eventually to find out in what respect their training might differ. This is great information!

 

[Pansit]

aProgDirector,

Thanks for the information. You really can learn something new every day. For me, it is nice to get a bigger perspective on the world. Hopefully I can meet some of these physicians eventually to find out in what respect their training might differ. This is great information!

Let me save you the time...none...other than the variety that occurs across any given program, A DO neurosurgeon is not going to be taught anything MD's wont be taught as well...

 

[Vermian]

True the variety across a given program offers a different perspective on the approach any given physician takes to their patients. Having been exposed to a couple of neurosurgical programs in the course of my training, I often try to find out what they are teaching and how that is different from where I am training.

Surgery in and of itself will always be limited by anatomy. However, due to the differences in medical training - and there may only be a few but they are there, perhaps there is something I can learn from the DO neurosurgeon just like there is something I can learn from the MD neurosurgeon I have not worked with before.

I put a lot of emphasis on my education, so that I may be able to offer the best care possible for the patients I will see in the future.

 

[c3c4cam]

Retake the MCAT and get into a US MD school. You would have to be an idiot not to try one more time before facing the shame of being a DO or the problems with a Carib MD.

Your a shame in the medical community for stating such a thing. You sound like your from McGill, so you practially know nothing about MD or DO in the states, other than what you read on here.

 

[oldpro]

This simple

MD if you have at least 3.4 and 28 MCAT
DO if you have at least 3.2 and 26 to 27 MCAT
Caribbean if you have at least 2.7 and 20 or better MCAT

Below 2.7 GPA rethink Medicine. Yes some still find a school with a 2.0 and no MCAT but 90% of these end up with loans and no degree.

This is not a game.

The goal should be to finish and be a Physician

DOes not matter where you go just that you succeed.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

This simple

MD if you have at least 3.4 and 28 MCAT
DO if you have at least 3.2 and 26 to 27 MCAT
Caribbean if you have at least 2.7 and 20 or better MCAT

Below 2.7 GPA rethink Medicine. Yes some still find a school with a 2.0 and no MCAT but 90% of these end up with loans and no degree.

This is not a game.

The goal should be to finish and be a Physician

DOes not matter where you go just that you succeed.

MD is more realistic with a 3.6 and 30 MCAT or higher.
DO is realistic with a 3.4 and 26 MCAT or better.

There is no real issue with a DO degree, for most purposes they are equal to MDs. Many of the Caribbean schools have issues, if you can go for a DO school that is a better option than leaving the borders of the US.

 

[RussianJoo]

MD is more realistic with a 3.6 and 30 MCAT or higher.
DO is realistic with a 3.4 and 26 MCAT or better.

There is no real issue with a DO degree, for most purposes they are equal to MDs. Many of the Caribbean schools have issues, if you can go for a DO school that is a better option than leaving the borders of the US.

the issue with a DO is that it's only recognized in the US no other country has DOs. This is a very minor thing considering most people don't want to move or practice in any foreign country. but if you do plan on moving down to the caribbean or something when u get older and still practicing it might be virtually impossible if you have a DO.

 

[oldpro]

the issue with a DO is that it's only recognized in the US no other country has DOs. This is a very minor thing considering most people don't want to move or practice in any foreign country. but if you do plan on moving down to the caribbean or something when u get older and still practicing it might be virtually impossible if you have a DO.

WHOA ........... there, DO is recognized as a Physician in over Half the Countries around the world maybe more even England recognized them for Registration as a Physician 2 years ago. The DO's (Who own this site) will pounce on your statement

As far as the Stats I posted, they have been researched as of last year and are the Min stats I would apply with.

3.6 is the average for MD not the low, with 3.6 in the middle 3.4 and 3.8 are on each end. DO you see?

 

[RussianJoo]

WHOA ........... there, DO is recognized as a Physician in over Half the Countries around the world maybe more even England recognized them for Registration as a Physician 2 years ago. The DO's (Who own this site) will pounce on your statement

As far as the Stats I posted, they have been researched as of last year and are the Min stats I would apply with.

3.6 is the average for MD not the low, with 3.6 in the middle 3.4 and 3.8 are on each end. DO you see?

now i know that wikipedia isn't a great source. but, according to them DO's can only get licensed in 47 countries, that's not exactly half the countries in the world. here's a quote from wikipedia: "Although U. S. osteopathic medical physicians currently may obtain licensure in 47 countries, osteopathic curricula in countries other than the United States differs."

and here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_medicine_in_the_United_States

 

[JoeNamaMD]

the issue with a DO is that it's only recognized in the US no other country has DOs. This is a very minor thing considering most people don't want to move or practice in any foreign country. but if you do plan on moving down to the caribbean or something when u get older and still practicing it might be virtually impossible if you have a DO.

Absolute Bull****, the DO is recognized in a number of countries. DOs have full practice rights in Germany, UK, Australia, Canada, and China, there are a bunch of others as well. The last country on the list is big news, the AOA has become heavily involved in helping the Chinese modernize their healthcare services.

 

[tkim]

now i know that wikipedia isn't a great source. but, according to them DO's can only get licensed in 47 countries, that's not exactly half the countries in the world. here's a quote from wikipedia: "Although U. S. osteopathic medical physicians currently may obtain licensure in 47 countries, osteopathic curricula in countries other than the United States differs."

and here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_medicine_in_the_United_States

Oldpro was being facetious.

Here's SGU's international practice rights:

http://www.sgu.edu/website/SGUWebSite.nsf/about-sgu/recognition-standards.html

Pretty similar lists. You got a leg up on us for Israel, but we have Sweden. Glaringly missing from both sites are France, Ireland, Spain, and Scotland.

Sounds like a game of Risk, no?

 

[JoeNamaMD]

SGU grads can only get temporary licensure in Australia not a full license. I know this because I am in Australia.

 

[oldpro]

Oldpro was being facetious.

Here's SGU's international practice rights:

http://www.sgu.edu/website/SGUWebSite.nsf/about-sgu/recognition-standards.html

Pretty similar lists. You got a leg up on us for Israel, but we have Sweden. Glaringly missing from both sites are France, Ireland, Spain, and Scotland.

Sounds like a game of Risk, no?

Well if not half its still way more then just the US and Canada!

Really I was trying to help the DO (Which I always think is equal o MD in every way), I think the world is just behind the times and some countries are just ignorant.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Post Grad education varies widely across countries. You also need language and cultural competence to successfully practice medicine in different countries. There are many other issues to consider. Unlike Nurses, it is very difficult for physicians to cross borders. The most likely places a North American will go if they practice internationally will be another English speaking country. DOs can get full practice rights in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand.

Unless you are a URM or something else, getting into a US Allopathic school is very difficult with less than a 3.6 GPA. Probably less than 10 percent of matriculated students at MD programs in the US have a 3.4.

DO is a very viable option for those who did not make it to MD programs.

 

[c3c4cam]

Why do you guys even worry about practicing abroad? Are you really gonna go to Australia and clear all boards again as an MD or DO to get license? Are you gonna go to China to practice? 99.99% of you will stay in Canada or US to practice, so stop worrying about international rights. And many developed countries give DOs unlimited rights.

And DO vs Caribbean is not even a question, as DO is equivalent to MD in EVERY way possible. (It is just the pre-meds, who don't know about the real world, get over yourself and realize that there are severalnames of a degree that lets you become a doctor: MD,DO,MBchb,MDCM,MS,MBBS etc).

Now let me tell you the truth about Caribbean school, my freind is currently attending a carribean school.
1)attrition rate for his first semester: 60ppl out of 300 dropped out. You will be stressed out alot, however, in a US MD/DO once you are in, its very unlikely for you to get kicked out. So carribean = dog eat dog undergrad type of world again
2)DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT THEIR USMLE PASS RATES AND RSIDENCY MATCHES. I will tell you why: for example some schools dont't let you write USMLE until you pass their version of USMLE. So basically, the ppl who can't pass their version of USMLE will not write the real USMLE and only the top students will write it. The pass rate of USMLE would have been around 50% is now all the sudden 90% because they screen out the ones that were not likely to pass.
3)They don't teach you how to become good doctors, they just teach you how to answer correctly on USMLE. Whereas US MD/DO schools first teach you proper biochem/anatomy etc etc and worry about boards later on.
4)If you do get residency, it will most likely be a crappy one, therefore crappy residency = crappy doctor

 

[oldpro]

1)attrition rate for his first semester: 60ppl out of 300 dropped out. You will be stressed out alot, however, in a US MD/DO once you are in, its very unlikely for you to get kicked out. So carribean = dog eat dog undergrad type of world again
2)DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT THEIR USMLE PASS RATES AND RSIDENCY MATCHES. I will tell you why: for example some schools dont't let you write USMLE until you pass their version of USMLE. So basically, the ppl who can't pass their version of USMLE will not write the real USMLE and only the top students will write it. The pass rate of USMLE would have been around 50% is now all the sudden 90% because they screen out the ones that were not likely to pass.
3)They don't teach you how to become good doctors, they just teach you how to answer correctly on USMLE. Whereas US MD/DO schools first teach you proper biochem/anatomy etc etc and worry about boards later on.
4)If you do get residency, it will most likely be a crappy one, therefore crappy residency = crappy doctor

1. Yes this is true, why? Because a 2.8 and 22 MCAT can get accepted at times and they are weaker students so they panic and drop out. (BTW you did not mention what school you could be talking about a poor school for all we know????)

2. So what? you want the schools to have lower standards? PLEASE.........this logic fails me

3. How can you prove this? this is opinion disguised as a fact, really try to curve your oblivious bias, I was taught way more then just for the USMLE as others. I think you are in no position to really know what is taught, when I compared with a friend in a US school we are doing the SAME THINGS almost exactly, we both were surprised (Pleasantly) thats why I come on here and counter post to this garbage, its rubbish. Uh I'm in clinicals along side US students by the way, 2 years (1/2 of the medical school time).

4. So you post this untrue statement and very hateful statement to prove what? There are a number Caribbean students who get good competitive residencies, also most of the residencies they do get is along side US grads, so what are you trying to say? US students are crappy doctors too? LOL


The Logic, the Logic here fails me!

Heres what we get here:

Caribbean schools test and retest the students and only allow the ones who pass to take the USMLE. This way they are prepared.

In the opinion of this poster Caribbean schools are a glorified Kaplan course, even though I'm a Caribbean student and have emails back and forth with a US student in Ohio who studied the same material as I and I'm in the US for over 1 year now in clinicals with US students.........Hmm



The poster contends that Caribbean grads only (if) get "Crappy residencies"
This ignors the facts that:

A. Caribbean grads do get competitive residencies in Surgery, Derm, Ortho, Radiology and Anesthesia.

B. Caribbean grads are along side US Grads in the same residencies so this makes the US grads "Crappy Doctors" too ( you cannot have it both ways)




This has to be one of the most biased Posts I have read in a while, ( I had to edit the post I know who you are now) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6572730&postcount=1

It seems like another IMG wants to put down the US FMG's here due to sour grapes, they cannot get into a Medical school in Canada, so they attack us.

I know this is the few not the many but these few should be weeded out we do not need them.

 

[c3c4cam]

I am sorry if I seemed biased, ROSS and SGU may be better schools, but trust me I am not that far off. I know a person who got into a carribbean medical school after high school with an average of less than 65% (his parents were loaded and just paid his way through to medschool). They teach him nothing else, but to write USMLE, honestly. But honestly, 65% high school and your becoming a doctor? what kind of doctor would that be? a crappy one. I meant my post towards those few who think caribbean and American MD/DO schools are equals. I am sorry I shouldn't have said crappy, what I meant was they are most likely to get the residencies whos quality may not be that good (this you can not deny). But there are instances where you will get very good residencies. I know I was blunt, but I believe in transparency and I believe that pre-meds deserve true opinions. HOwever, make sure you leave carribbean as last resort. Also remember: Ultimately, doctor's comptency will depend on his/her hard work.


My statement about USMLE does not fail logically. Think about it. For example: If an American MD/DO school started doing the same thing, then the pass rate for that school on USMLE will be almost close to 100%. This masks the true prepardeness of students by selecting the best to write USMLE. So when a pre-med applies to that medschool and sees a pass rate close to 100%, that premed will see that school very positively. However, in reality, that is not the case.

 

[oldpro]

The out of high school thing is true in many countries around the world and one or two incidences does not make the whole system wrong.

I think the 6 yr MD has meritt but as you said some abuse the system, I agree

Also residencies depends also on your goals, I want Rural FP (Town Doc) and to do that I have to do a RURAL FP residency which I have prematched in.

So I understand what you are trying to say just it was in the wrong way.

I think some of what you do not like about Caribbean schools is making them better then before, there are check points to keep the ones out that should be.

 

[Ron Mexico]

lets give each other hugs

edit: how do i get one of those icons that says 2+ year member???

 

[oldpro]

lets give each other hugs

edit: how do i get one of those icons that says 2+ year member???

I have no idea? I just logged on one day and there it was?

Maybe after so many posts and 2 years? But hey I shouldn't be on LOL

 

[jhafez87]

s

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

The out of high school thing is true in many countries around the world and one or two incidences does not make the whole system wrong.

I think the 6 yr MD has meritt but as you said some abuse the system, I agree

Also residencies depends also on your goals, I want Rural FP (Town Doc) and to do that I have to do a RURAL FP residency which I have prematched in.

So I understand what you are trying to say just it was in the wrong way.

I think some of what you do not like about Caribbean schools is making them better then before, there are check points to keep the ones out that should be.

I thought you wanted internal medicine?

 

[oldpro]

I thought you wanted internal medicine?

Yea I did , FP was always something I thought I liked too, Really out here the only difference seems to be that FP sees younger patients ( just about all ages) IM is adults so like 16 and older mostly.

Really I do mind the kids and in some areas to be RURAL here are no pediatricians anyway.

 

[Instatewaiter]

A. Caribbean grads do get competitive residencies in Surgery, Derm, Ortho, Radiology and Anesthesia.

This gets thrown around a lot on SDN but the fact of the matter is that only a tiny percentage of carribean grads get highly competitive residencies. Let's take SGU for instance: this year out of 450+ grads there are 0 derm, 1 ortho, 1 radiology and 12 gas.

Taking the most competitive fields- Derm, ortho, optho, ENT, uro, plastics, neurosurg, rad, rad onc there are only 4/450+ that found their way into these fields. Compare that to your average mainland program, MD or DO. I assure you that more than 1% match into competitive fields.

 

[oldpro]

This gets thrown around a lot on SDN but the fact of the matter is that only a tiny percentage of carribean grads get highly competitive residencies. Let's take SGU for instance: this year out of 450+ grads there are 0 derm, 1 ortho, 1 radiology and 12 gas.

Taking the most competitive fields- Derm, ortho, optho, ENT, uro, plastics, neurosurg, rad, rad onc there are only 4/450+ that found their way into these fields. Compare that to your average mainland program, MD or DO. I assure you that more than 1% match into competitive fields.

Yes this may have some truth, the list from these schools is incomplete and there are more then just these schools, so really the percentage is higher, How high, well I really do not know as you do not. But really whats the point?

Personally I'm sick and tired that all that matters is surgery and derm blah blah blah, you know not everyone who goes into medical school wants these, and this includes the mighty US student.

As you point out 450 grads.......... they match it seems per the school so in 5 years thats over 2,000 just one school. as I have said if they did not match from the Caribbean there would be thousands crying out loud, funny you only here from one or two disgruntled student and the rest US premeds and US medical students............................

 

[Instatewaiter]

Personally I'm sick and tired that all that matters is surgery and derm blah blah blah, you know not everyone who goes into medical school wants these, and this includes the mighty US student.

You were the one who brought it up. I just expounded on it.

Sure not everyone wants derm, the lifestyle fields or the competitive surgical fields but those are a good marker for strength of match list. It is much more cumbersome and time consuming to wade through the specific matches for IM/EM etc but if you want to do that you will probably find the exact same thing.

 

[oldpro]

You were the one who brought it up. I just expounded on it.

Sure not everyone wants derm, the lifestyle fields or the competitive surgical fields but those are a good marker for strength of match list. It is much more cumbersome and time consuming to wade through the specific matches for IM/EM etc but if you want to do that you will probably find the exact same thing.

(OMG I'm an Idiot for posting this but my OCD makes me LOL)

SOme of the DO schools have heavy primary care matches too.

My point is to rank a school based on Matches is just plain waste of time, really if you want to be a Surgeon study hard and get top marks in the US and a high MCAT, what makes you think marginal students who somehow get into medical school US or Caribbean will ever do well enough to get surgery anyway?

I'm just tired of the mentality of this, marginal students (1/2 of the Caribbean) are lucky to study medicine, plain and simple and to argue with them how they made a bad choice, well it was the only choice most times.
A few the alternative may be spend the next 3 to 10 years trying to improve and get into a US school or never.......................................

 

[majatoi]

National Results
15,000 US Medical School seniors participated in the 2008 residency match. More then 10,300 graduates of non-US medical schools applied for positions through the match, with about 45% matching to a first year position. Nearly 1,900 osteopathic students and graduates applied to the match, and 72% matched to a position.

From the University of Arizona's Office of the Dean.

Simply put, I think the DO situation strongly depends on where you live. I think Wiki has the break down of which states hold many more DOs than others. Therefore, those states will tend to see many more DOs, whereas in other places they would rarely be seen. I am waitlisted at the University of Arizona but I have and am comfortable with being accepted and attending Midwestern University (AZCOM / DO school) because Arizona is a rather DO friendly state. I think there will always be a small prejudice everywhere you go, and us DO students / Docs will have to defend ourselves from time to time, but in the end we are here to help patients just like the MDs are. Some can deal with that and work side by side, while others can't. I think we all regardless of how we get where, should respect one another for what we have gained clinically, whether it be MD, DO, IMG, FMG, etc... as long as they are good docs and a pleasure to work side by side with.

My two cents.

 

[Dreaming]

This gets thrown around a lot on SDN but the fact of the matter is that only a tiny percentage of carribean grads get highly competitive residencies. Let's take SGU for instance: this year out of 450+ grads there are 0 derm, 1 ortho, 1 radiology and 12 gas.

Taking the most competitive fields- Derm, ortho, optho, ENT, uro, plastics, neurosurg, rad, rad onc there are only 4/450+ that found their way into these fields. Compare that to your average mainland program, MD or DO. I assure you that more than 1% match into competitive fields.

SGU this year had about 20 gas, 11 rads, 27 EM, 1 ophtho, 3 ortho, 2 radonc, 1 uro

you have to click the button at the top of the page that says "advance to 2009" for people who are doing something different in PGY2 from PGY1 (many of the gas and rads show IM for pgy1 [intern year]).. they should change the layout. also if you click pgy4, 5, etc. you will see some cards, plastics, derm, (fellowships) etc

 

[Instatewaiter]

Makes a bit more sense. I definitely didnt see that the first time around.

For those interested here is the link
http://www.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY2&Count=-1

 

[majatoi]

I think bottom line, it's hard everywhere.. the bias is definitely gone if your just a normal US MD student, beyond that.. there will be a biased / prejudice no matter what, but as we can see from all these statistics, people make it through. Midwestern U (DO) has a PGY-2 at Harvard in Rads, and I am sure that's the case for a IMG or FMG too at some point.

I think it's whatever your comfortable with, how you mold with the school and the people there, and whether or not your willing to re-locate.

 

[oldpro]

I think bottom line, it's hard everywhere.. the bias is definitely gone if your just a normal US MD student, beyond that.. there will be a biased / prejudice no matter what, but as we can see from all these statistics, people make it through. Midwestern U (DO) has a PGY-2 at Harvard in Rads, and I am sure that's the case for a IMG or FMG too at some point.

I think it's whatever your comfortable with, how you mold with the school and the people there, and whether or not your willing to re-locate.

There is two things that can happen to a grad

MD USA nothing

MD Caribbean nothing until asked "Where did you go to school?" You mention it and then asked "Wheres that?" You then have to tell them the Island of.....

DO there are some people who still do not know what a DO is, so you may be asked to explain that a DO is a Physician just like an MD, then if a lay person, they still may be asking more questions like "Then why are you not XXXX MD?"

I have found these things to come up rarely not everyday as some Premeds contend.

In fact the Ortho DOc I'm with now is a Johns Hopkins graduate and the only other Ortho DOc in town is a MCG graduate, yet the local people like the MCG grad because he is from here, do not care that the one I'm with has more credentials or went to one of the best medical schools in the world , and thats the reality of it.

 

[majatoi]

just cause there was question to the Harvard Rads DO...

He graduated in the Class of 2002 from Midwestern University. You can see his match results from this website: http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academi...Dean_Match.htm

His name is Dr. Dmitri Segal.. he recently published a article from there in 2007, I believe he is done with his residency by now...
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k68363709l4n8430/

Another link regarding his practice:
http://www.healthgrades.com/directo...dr-md-reports/Dr-Dmitri-Segal-DO-CA899884.cfm

Also MWU had a guy in Class of 2006 that made it into Johns Hopkins IM / Anesthesiology.

 

[c3c4cam]

Anti Caribbean M.D.? Is that because most Caribbean M.D.'s match into more competitive spots than primary care D.O.'s.. Last I checked the Caribbean / FMG M.D.'s that were getting competitive residencies like Neurosurgery, etc... had Ziltch (0) D.O.'s matching into those positions or the ratio was Caribbean > D.O. for competitive.... Ah M.D. really is an M.D. not matter where you go....

wow dude, take it easy!! Guess what, at most American MD/DO, almost 100% of students match into residencies. Whereas, the carribbean are MUCH more misleading in terms of residency. Why? Because they only let those ppl write the USMLE that did good in their mock USMLE. Therefore, a residency match list from a carribbean school that may have been 50%, now seems 90% because handpicking bright students to write USMLE. Even if you get residencies from Carribbean, the schools there can not compete with american schools. For example american MD/DO have research going, state sponswring, donations, funding etc. You know what, I am gonna stop talking, here check the residency mathc list from one of the D.O school.

http://www.dmu.edu/com/residencies/
92% first match, 8% 2nd choice for the year of 2008.

-you can check stats for other american MD/DO schools and you will find similar results. dont judge, but look at the facts first!

 

[oldpro]

wow dude, take it easy!! Guess what, at most American MD/DO, almost 100% of students match into residencies. Whereas, the carribbean are MUCH more misleading in terms of residency. Why? Because they only let those ppl write the USMLE that did good in their mock USMLE. Therefore, a residency match list from a carribbean school that may have been 50%, now seems 90% because handpicking bright students to write USMLE. Even if you get residencies from Carribbean, the schools there can not compete with american schools. For example american MD/DO have research going, state sponswring, donations, funding etc. You know what, I am gonna stop talking, here check the residency mathc list from one of the D.O school.

http://www.dmu.edu/com/residencies/
92% first match, 8% 2nd choice for the year of 2008.

-you can check stats for other american MD/DO schools and you will find similar results. dont judge, but look at the facts first!

One comment here....... US schools do not have shelf exams? I thought some did? I thought you had to pass the Basic Science to take the USMLE too, Uh at some of these Caribbean schools the self exam is the final step to get out of basic Science.

I have posted this before, US students can put down the Caribbean but you cannot have it both ways

The shelf exams ensures quality
You criticize the Caribbean as lower quality yet you criticize the Caribbean for coming up with a way of quality control,

you just cannot have it both ways here!

 

[a817]

One comment here....... US schools do not have shelf exams? I thought some did? I thought you had to pass the Basic Science to take the USMLE too, Uh at some of these Caribbean schools the self exam is the final step to get out of basic Science.

I have posted this before, US students can put down the Caribbean but you cannot have it both ways

The shelf exams ensures quality
You criticize the Caribbean as lower quality yet you criticize the Caribbean for coming up with a way of quality control,

you just cannot have it both ways here!

some us schools have shelf exams, usually they dont count for anything. they are used more as a way to see personally how much you know the topic.

 

[oldpro]

some us schools have shelf exams, usually they dont count for anything. they are used more as a way to see personally how much you know the topic.

Oh because I have a friend at a DO school who had to take and pass this kind of exam before the end if 2nd year. SHe failed twice but passed later in the year and could then move on.

 

[a817]

yea, at my DO school it does not count on your grade...

 

[spreebee]

Caribbean MD should be your last resort.

Why should it be a last resort? I find all thousands of my fellow classmates getting residencies... Actually, there is no-one that I know of at my school that didn't end up getting a U.S. residency if they wanted one....I say the numbers are pretty good right now...Like 95% of the big 4 that make it through clincals will get a residency eventually.... Pretty good odds.....

 

[a817]

Why should it be a last resort? I find all thousands of my fellow classmates getting residencies... Actually, there is no-one that I know of at my school that didn't end up getting a U.S. residency if they wanted one....I say the numbers are pretty good right now...Like 95% of the big 4 that make it through clincals will get a residency eventually.... Pretty good odds.....

I think what he meant you should always try the US first. There is a difference between a last resort and a bad resort. If you make a med school in the US, you should go. As a carib grad have to work harder, but they are plenty of success stories. No one is arguing that a carib grad cant get a residency.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Why should it be a last resort? I find all thousands of my fellow classmates getting residencies... Actually, there is no-one that I know of at my school that didn't end up getting a U.S. residency if they wanted one....I say the numbers are pretty good right now...Like 95% of the big 4 that make it through clincals will get a residency eventually.... Pretty good odds.....

I think he was saying that there are fewer hoops to jump through and the road is easier coming from a US school. No one is saying that you cannot do it from the carribean but why take the risk if you dont have to. Do you want to be one of those that dont make it through the first 2 years, or make it through clinicals or part of the 5% that did make it through the first 2 hurdles and not match?

eventually match... hmm ambiguus.