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Wanna see full coverage? Fins someone with a native American benefit card (forgot what it's called). I've billed all sorts of mundane OTCs through it
Plan B Now OTC For All Ages
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Wanna see full coverage? Fins someone with a native American benefit card (forgot what it's called). I've billed all sorts of mundane OTCs through it
Yeah, Indian health services pays for everything...but they are a CLOSED formulary. They pay for a lot of stuff, but if it's not covered, it's not covered - no exceptions.
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Yea actually that's kind of what I'm saying. I would hope that an adult has at least taken that step back to assess the situation, would be able to direct further medical attention after supplying the plan B if it was needed. It's more the situation surrounding the need for plan B as an underage kid, as no, they generally aren't as mature to handle things like that. I wasn't implying (didn't mean to at least) that it would increase risky behavior, just that some adult direction would probably be helpful in most underage cases.
I have no strong arguments against the issue, these are just my concerns.
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Keep Plan B behind the counter and age 17 and older. People may start to steal Plan B or young children misuse Plan B. Keeping Plan B behind the counter helps deter it, and gives the pharmacist an opportunity to counsel.
In response: I think the parents should know what a 13 year old or any minor is doing. Also, weren't you ever young and made mistakes? I know when I was 13 and 14 I didn't bother using condoms or think about the risks. I've had people say that they thought you could use the morning after pill as birth control.
In response: I think the parents should know what a 13 year old or any minor is doing. Also, weren't you ever young and made mistakes? I know when I was 13 and 14 I didn't bother using condoms or think about the risks. I've had people say that they thought you could use the morning after pill as birth control.
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What's wrong with keeping it behind the counter but selling to all that request? It wouldn't get stolen, and the pharmacist could counsel as needed.
How are they going to misuse it? Get high? There's data supporting the fact that increased access to birth control, emergency contraception, etc does not increase risky behavior so making Plan B accessible to everyone won't mean more kids are having unprotected sex. Plus, it's still 50 dollar a pill so I can hypothesize that most of them are still going to opt for condoms as their number 1 contraceptive. So you're not worried that they'll misuse it, but rather just worried that they'll use it.
Edit: Since you decided to edit your post rather than respond, I'll pose this question to you just like I have to Xiphoid (who still hasn't answered by the way). Do you really think teenagers will go to mom and dad to ask them to buy plan B or would the just wait and hope they're not pregnant? I know when I made mistakes, my first response sure as hell wasn't to go right to my parents. And again, these pills are 50 dollars each. I don't think teenagers have the money to be using it every time they have sex, so it's not like an outbreak of unprotected teen sex will break out with the teens relying on Plan B as contraception every time. And the morning after pill is a form of birth control, so people who think you can use it as birth control are correct.
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I already answered. You don't have the answer any more than I do. How likely is an underage child who doesn't know to practice safe sex is going to know to use contraception and how to use it properly without adult/professional guidance? And I also stated a while back that I would be ok with selling to ages if parents are automatically notified. It goes against common sense to throw meds at underage children who don't have the smarts, and keeping parents/teacher/doctors out of the loop.
As for the price argument, it's flawed. It won't be for $50 for long. The price of OC is cheap. Pharmacy acquisition cost for 6 months of OC containing levonorgestrel (eg, Portia is $100). That's for 168 tablets. Once there are multiple generics on the market, the cost would likely be cheap, especially if it's not behind the counter and could be bought online.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks it's silly to expect kids that practice unsafe sex is going to do the smart thing right after and do it right, and not do the same stupid thing over again. And apparently, parents and doctors don't have the right or need to know about that at all.
As for the price argument, it's flawed. It won't be for $50 for long. The price of OC is cheap. Pharmacy acquisition cost for 6 months of OC containing levonorgestrel (eg, Portia is $100). That's for 168 tablets. Once there are multiple generics on the market, the cost would likely be cheap, especially if it's not behind the counter and could be bought online.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks it's silly to expect kids that practice unsafe sex is going to do the smart thing right after and do it right, and not do the same stupid thing over again. And apparently, parents and doctors don't have the right or need to know about that at all.
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No the question you answered was "do you think it would be good to have plan B OTC?". The question I asked was "do you think kids will go to mom and dad or wait and hope there is no pregnancy?". Let's be very clear on this. You need to stop making **** up. I asked you for an opinion which for some reason you can't give. So they're too dumb to walk their asses to Wags to buy a Plan B? A "dumb" teenager isn't going to put all eggs in the "no pregnancy hope" basket?
You lack logic. Dumb kids have sex without condoms. Dumb kids hope they won't get pregnant. Dumb kids don't talk to mom and dad and ask for emergency contraception. The only thing that can come from REMOVING A BARRIER is less pregnancy.
What is this horrible, awful health outcome you're referring to when a girl takes Plan B without her mother or father knowing? So now you have 2 questions to answer.
Data: Most women who use emergency contraception, use it rarely (4%/year used it more than once in this study which includes girls as young as 14). So you won't have people using it 100x/year http://jfprhc.bmj.com/content/26/3/138.short
Access increases use but doesn't decrease use of other birth control, more conventional methods. So kids won't say "eff the condoms I can get Plan B tomorrow". In addition, Plan B will always be more expensive than a box of condoms. http://journals.lww.com/greenjourna...ply_of_Emergency_Contraception__Effect.5.aspx
Making it harder for teens to ask for emergency contraception prevents them from obtaining it. The only thing you're accomplishing by forcing the parents to be involved is more teenage pregnancy. I don't know what's worse, the horrible, awful no-parent involved side effect or teen pregnancy. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC138517/
Increasing access does not cause less condom use or more STIs. The sad thing is that condom use is pretty low already. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=200095
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LOL, I thought lack of parental guidance also leads to unsafe sex, repeating the same mistake and pregnancy.
So your plan is to keep the parents in the dark, and cut doctors/pharmacist/teacher, or anyone who could possibly could give the stupid kid who is having unsafe sex any kind of guidance. Wow, what a great, smart and logical approach indeed.
So your plan is to keep the parents in the dark, and cut doctors/pharmacist/teacher, or anyone who could possibly could give the stupid kid who is having unsafe sex any kind of guidance. Wow, what a great, smart and logical approach indeed.
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Sex Education in this country is pathetic, many kids may not have parents that they can be honest with or even educators with their welfare in mind. Kids are stupid and in this day and age of " everybody wins" and all the crap on TV, maybe they should be counseled on how to use these drugs properly. Whether its a pharmacist, teacher, or physician I think that they should at least understand the gravity of their decision to have unprotected sex. But I do agree that there are too many crappy parents in this country and I support any measure to to prevent unfit people from becoming parents and perpetuating the cycle.
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If there wasn't that stupid contentious objection clause for BC, I'd be all for it being behind the counter. But pharmacies should be required to carry it. Otherwise, access to BC is what we need more of!
This is ur problem... You think you live in this perfect little world where kids go to adults right after they have sex. You also assume all parents know what they are doing. Your opinion will change once you live in one of the highest teen pregnancy rates places in the country.
Those that seek guidance usually don't practice unsafe sex. If a teen is going to have unprotected sex, she's going to do it regardless if Plan B is OTC or not. You seriously think that's something a teenager would think about in the heat of the moment? And do you honestly think they would go to their parents afterward? YOU YOURSELF even said you didn't tell your parents of all the stupid stuff you did, and you called yourself a "saint" compared to your friends. I seriously don't understand your logic. You are basically expecting teens that are less educated to do something you can't even do yourself.
I thought lack of emergency contraception after unprotected sex leads to pregnancy, but call me crazy since I'm just a student of biology.
Here's the thing, no one is saying that ideally mom and dad shouldn't be involved in their child's life. No one wants to be called grandma at 35 years old. I agree, getting a sexually active teen on OCPs with mom and dad supervising, paying, and driving to the pharmacy is far superior than just making Plan B available. The problem is a lot of children don't tell mom and dad they're sexually active since they don't have to legally and don't want to get in trouble. When these kids (which are a large portion of them) do have an uh-oh with a broken condom or a heat of the moment unprotected sexual encounter, they benefit by having access to emergency contraception without barriers. They are going to hope that pulling out or luck keeps them from conceiving.
Again, your argument predicated on the fact that kids will present to authority figures after having unprotected sex. I'm going to ask you again, do you think teenagers will ask mom and dad to get them plan B or just hope there is no pregnancy? I'm going to continuously pose this question to you until you answer this question rather than another question of your choosing. Right now, you just look spineless for not stepping up to the plate and defending the cornerstone of all your arguments. Grow a pair and answer for once.
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Good point. Also teenagers who tend to engage in risky sexual behaviors often come from dysfunctional home environments where they can't really count on sensible guidance from parents. What doesn't make sense is putting yet another barrier between them and making the right choice to use Plan B if they need it. In my opinion Plan B should be OTC for all ages with counseling.
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See the "now for something completely different" thread to find out what to expect from xiphoid. More of this, and worse.
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If fundamentalist Christians continue to use the legal system to shape the health care system, you have no choice but to do the same. A bit odd that we're the socialists, but you Americans have 'way more of a nanny state when it comes to reproductive choices.
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Makes sense because the decision made by the HHS secretary was...wonky. It was a process and boundary issue.
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I didn't even know what Plan B was when I was 13 and 14 years old. Maybe if the children speak to their parents about the issue, the parent will tell them about and recommend Plan B. Then they can have a heart to heart talk about the consequences of unprotected sex. I didn't even think about the consequences of my actions back then.
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I already answered your question eagle. Why don't "grow a pair" and provide data that kids won't run their parent when scared like I asked?
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Looks like FDA more or less also think there should be some common sense involved.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...b-will-be-over-the-counter-for-women-over-15/
As I have said, common sense should tell you there has to be a reasonable age when someone can make a rational major healthcare decision, before that parents/healthcare professionals should make the call. Something like than less than 10 years old makes no sense (for starters they can't read drug instructions written above their reading level). FDA's 15 yo cut off seems reasonable to me, I think 13-17 could all be argued with some degree of merit.
Trying to use medicaid babies to justify throwing medications at underaged kids and handicap parental rights is a stupid approach in my view. How often do you see Asians with medicaid babies problems? More disciplinarian, empowering parents to do so and hold parents accountable works and is the right approach. Stop trying to keep parents out of the loop and handicap them.
Kind of like what CMS is doing to hospitals with high readmission. Just an idea here: instead of subsidizing medicaid babies by underaged kids, make their parents on the hook to pay the cost of their poor performance. I would even go so far as ok with if they can't afford the cost, they must do public works to defray the cost to society. Meanwhile offer tax credit and reward to parents that decrease societal burden. Eg, tax credits and scholarships for parents having only 2-3 kids, and if kids don't break the law/have medicaid babies, or do well in school.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...b-will-be-over-the-counter-for-women-over-15/
As I have said, common sense should tell you there has to be a reasonable age when someone can make a rational major healthcare decision, before that parents/healthcare professionals should make the call. Something like than less than 10 years old makes no sense (for starters they can't read drug instructions written above their reading level). FDA's 15 yo cut off seems reasonable to me, I think 13-17 could all be argued with some degree of merit.
Trying to use medicaid babies to justify throwing medications at underaged kids and handicap parental rights is a stupid approach in my view. How often do you see Asians with medicaid babies problems? More disciplinarian, empowering parents to do so and hold parents accountable works and is the right approach. Stop trying to keep parents out of the loop and handicap them.
Kind of like what CMS is doing to hospitals with high readmission. Just an idea here: instead of subsidizing medicaid babies by underaged kids, make their parents on the hook to pay the cost of their poor performance. I would even go so far as ok with if they can't afford the cost, they must do public works to defray the cost to society. Meanwhile offer tax credit and reward to parents that decrease societal burden. Eg, tax credits and scholarships for parents having only 2-3 kids, and if kids don't break the law/have medicaid babies, or do well in school.
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This is as I have voiced always on this forum. America is run by politicians and people divided into liberal and conservatives.
Centrism and meritocracy advocates get no love since we are not dependable voters to agendas of either camps. Both ends of the spectrum yell, beat their chests, call everyone names when you don't agree with their ways. But when they can't get enough votes, come begging to the middle.
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Today I sold Plan B to a 16 year old for his 12 year old sister. Happy to see expanded access being utilized
Again, I didn't ask you for data. I asked you for a personal opinion. You answered the question "Do you think making it available is good?". I asked the question "Do you really think kids will go to mom and dad rather than waiting and hoping there is no pregnancy?"
I'll post this every time you claim to have answered my question because you haven't. Stop lying.
The less than 10 years old is strawman. You have to have reached menarche to need plan B. Average age is 12.5 in this country. And you know, a pharmacist will counsel to make sure that the drug is taken properly and that a young person is safe. This drug doesn't exist in a vacuum. Remember that thing you do when you talk to your patients about drugs? Nice try at playing Let's Make a Strawman, but you haven't won any prizes today.
So, like communism?
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I have told you my personal opinion a million times, I think we as a society are better off when parents make the call for underaged kids? Which part of that you don't understand?
More parents controlled families (eg, Asian ones) appears to have much lower underaged pregnancy rates. Straw man? You want to call it whatever you want. If all you can counter witb is opinions, then everyone has one, and my opinion means as much as yours (neither means squat).
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CMS is communist? Damn, I knew it!
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I sold to a guy in his twenties for his 14 year old girlfriend. My ability to complete the transaction without smashing him in the face was a triumph of professionalism.
Pretty sure that's illegal. Those exemptions for both being underage are out the window, and he's a sex offender.
Best let her have the kid...
So it's okay to knowingly support a 20 something having sex with a 14 year old child? You don't report that?
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Holy Christ, you're really not getting the question.
The question is not, "Do you think kids would be better off if they involved their parents in their medical decisions?" We know your answer to that question. It's a resounding, "Yes". Many people would probably agree.
The question is, "Do you think kids who may have just made a terrible mistake will actually go and tell their parents, or will they just wait it out and hope nothing bad happens?" They are two COMPLETELY different questions.
The question is not, "Do you think kids would be better off if they involved their parents in their medical decisions?" We know your answer to that question. It's a resounding, "Yes". Many people would probably agree.
The question is, "Do you think kids who may have just made a terrible mistake will actually go and tell their parents, or will they just wait it out and hope nothing bad happens?" They are two COMPLETELY different questions.
Obviously the relationship is illegal. But my understanding of plan B law is that there is only an age restriction to purchase, not to take.
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I got a better solution. Let's just chemically sterilize everyone until they are 18 with gov't mandated depo provera shots. Problem solved. Let's be honest, having a kid before you are an adult should be considered preemptive child abuse.
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Where I live, it wasn't illegal at the time, though in 2008 the age of consent in Canada was raised from 14 to 16.
If the minimum age to buy plan B is 15, how exactly does one check the age of a 15 year old who is too young for a government identification or drivers license?
http://news.yahoo.com/fda-files-appeal-over-morning-pill-decision-001155986.html
"Before filing its appeal, the FDA said on Tuesday that it would allow girls as young as 15 years old to buy without a prescription the Plan B One-Step emergency contraceptive, made by a unit of Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd.
The agency said its decision to lower the age limit for Plan B One-Step was based on scientific data submitted by Teva that showed girls as young as 15 could safely use the drug without the intervention of a healthcare provider. Cashiers will still have to verify the customer's age before selling it, the FDA said."
http://news.yahoo.com/fda-files-appeal-over-morning-pill-decision-001155986.html
"Before filing its appeal, the FDA said on Tuesday that it would allow girls as young as 15 years old to buy without a prescription the Plan B One-Step emergency contraceptive, made by a unit of Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd.
The agency said its decision to lower the age limit for Plan B One-Step was based on scientific data submitted by Teva that showed girls as young as 15 could safely use the drug without the intervention of a healthcare provider. Cashiers will still have to verify the customer's age before selling it, the FDA said."
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Passport?
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Technically, Texas could make a stricter law than the federal law (it doesn't appear that they have, but they could.) Just like some states make certain drugs prescription or controlled, which the FDA does not consider prescription or controlled.
This is not true if people are taking Plan B multiple times a month....or week. This does happen.
My thinking on the OP's question, what bother's me is the inconsistency of the law. If we say anyone under 18 isn't mature enough to vote or to consent to the vast majority of medical treatments or to sign any sort of contract or to be out past a locally defined "curfew" or to smoke cigarettes, or anyone under 16 isn't mature enough to drive or to decide to go to trade school/get a job instead of high school, or anyone under 21 isn't mature enough to drink alcohol.......I just don't see how its logical to turn around and say that all children (11 yr old, 12 yr old???) are mature enough to self-medicate with Plan B (and while risks are pretty low with it, its not risk-free.)
Even with allowing minors to consent to STD/BCP treatment without their parents consent....there is still a licensed medical professional concurring with the treatment, that's far different from a minor self-medicating.
Any picked age is going to be arbitrary, but it makes more logical sense to me to have 1 cut-off age after which the individual can make all decisions, rather than having different ages for different decisions. But realistically, I don't think this ruling will make much of a difference either way--minors already can get Plan B, just like they get alcohol, cigarettes, and anything else they aren't supposed to get.
Nobody said that.
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I saw that. Despite the prevailing liberal user base in this forum, the US population is really divided roughly equally into left-right-center.
I am glad to see that the FDA arrived at the exact same age cut-off of 15 that I had advocated. Its the rational and meritocratic solution. I am actually pleasantly surprised that the liberal Obama administration also joined the centrist camp on this issue.
The government gets a nod of support from us moderates and centrists. But I'm sure the FDA and the white house are getting tons of hate mails sent by hard-line liberal and conservatives. Just don't send any pressure cookers please!
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What? You didn't want it available to minors at all. Parental rights and age of consent and all that:
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Nope. It's divided between two camps of ideologues, one camp of idiots that think they look "reasonable" by advocating for the sum average thoughts of a bunch of ideologues, and the minuscule minority that comprises everyone else that is actually capable of thinking outside of the false left-right dichotomy.
15 does seems reasonable, though. Maybe 13 or 14 if you stretch it. But, again, access to birth control has been deemed by the government to be more important than access to life maintaining and saving drugs...so I actually agree with you in your political assessment. I'm rather shocked they stopped at 15. Anything that perpetuates the emerging female privilege is bulletproof in this country. Just a few weeks ago they passed something hilariously called the "Violence Against Women Act" as if men and hermaphrodites aren't important enough to not be violent against. I frequently feel like I'm the only person noticing the degree of idiocy coming out of the government and our society in general.
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He typed that 16 is a reasonable number.
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He conceded that after a long drawn out defense of "no access for minors."
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Why does there have to be a legal limit at all? Shouldn't access to health care be determined by health care professionals rather than politicians?
It can be accessed via a health professional at any age. The ruling is feeling out who can make that determination on their own, without a health professional's input.
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Apparently when I wrote "16 is a reasonable number" in my very 1st post on the very 1st page is, in a die hard liberal's definition, "conceded after a long drawn out defense".
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A hardliner, liberal or conservative, sees everything only in "you are either with us or against us". Anyone centrists say will be viewed as the opposite extreme. No surprise there.
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Plan B should be mandatory if either the guy or the girl don't want to have a kid. I have a friend who's girlfriend managed to convince him to have sex without a condom (not hard to do apparently), and then refused to take Plan B afterwards, they broke up shortly after, she got pregnant and refused to get an abortion, had a kid, and now he has to deal with this bull**** for 18 years.
This is one of those cases where guys should be able to relinquish all their parental rights and not have to pay a dime. This mentality of "once the guy chooses to have sex with a girl, he has to deal with the consequences for life" has to go away.
This is one of those cases where guys should be able to relinquish all their parental rights and not have to pay a dime. This mentality of "once the guy chooses to have sex with a girl, he has to deal with the consequences for life" has to go away.
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No, he should man up and take responsibility for not wearing a condom. No one held a gun to his head and forced him to go in un-gloved. He played the odds and lost.
