Pitt v Jeff v BU v UMass v Kaiser

[margatsni]

Hello all. Please help me narrow down my list to 3 and then to 1. Long term goals are open but currently interested in: internal medicine, neurology, radiology. Not interested in most surgical specialties, pediatrics and family medicine. Moderately interested in research.

Pitt
Pros

• Prestige. I need all the boost I can get because I do not have any connections/network in medicine and I am not particularly good at networking.
• Liked the vibe of the faculty and students at the interview. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of hand holding and I like that.
• More opportunities for research

Cons

• Cost. Only got 10k in fin aid. The rest will be loans (300k+). Don’t know if they reconsider aid.
• Location. Did not like Pittsburgh
• Seems to have a lot of mandatory in person attendance.

Jeff
Pros

• Location. Prefer Philly to Pittsburgh.
• Large student body which I prefer.
• Not everything is mandatory attendance during preclinical years.
• 40k+ scholarship

Cons

• Unsure about the availability of research opportunities
• Would still be around 200k+ in loans

BU
Pros:

• Location, familiarity. I live in the area, all family and support system is in the area and very familiar with the school and BMC.
• Aligns with my long term goal in many ways including patient population, staying in MA long term etc.

Cons:

• Did not like much about the school itself from interviews, faculty sessions, student panels, second look. Would be attending mostly for the clinical experience and location. Is that worth it?
• Cost: close to 0 aid. Can appeal but seems futile. So would be 300k+ in loans.
• The process for finding research opportunities and other activities seems convoluted. Have access to research opportunities outside the school but still seemed like a con.
• More mandatory attendance than umass

UMass
Pros:

• Location, familiarity
• Cheaper (relative to BU)
• More laid back. Not as much mandatory attendance for preclinical, which suits my learning style
• Clinical rotations at Lahey Clinic. Is that a pro?

Cons:

• Current students swear it’s a very supportive environment. That’s not very obvious so far.
• The lahey program is new and it seems like they are still working out the details
• Cost unknown. Might end up being more expensive than Jeff even with IS tuition. With no aid, it’d be 200k+ in loans.
• Small class size

Kaiser
Pros:

• Free everything. (tuition + COL), a lot of other resources
• Expanding clinical opportunities
• Now has one matched class and current students say it was a good list. But not fully public so unclear how well it went and it’s still only 1 class.
• No cadavers for anatomy

Cons:

• Clinical rotations schedule is very intense. Location is all over LA county. Traffic.
• A lot of mandatory attendance. Clinicals begin in first year.
• Still tweaking the curriculum. Need to be very proactive in finding opportunities and ways to use available resources.
• Majority of patient population served is insured. Seems like limited opportunities to work with uninsured, unhoused etc.
• No support system. Big move.

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[ValPak00per]

Kaiser or Pitt

 

[Bowel-Plumber]

None of us can weigh on the location aspect so you really need to think about that. If I’m going based on your list, objectively Pitt and Kaiser would be my choices. Pitt because it’s the best option and Kaiser because it’s free.

If you really hate Pittsburgh, then take it off your list. We can’t make that decision for you. If it helps, I don’t think you’d be insane to decide that you hate Pittsburgh so much that you’d rather go to a school like BU since their difference in ranking and caliber are not so far off.

I think you need to try to quantify a value towards Location, Debt, and Program in order to make a decision like this.

 

[Egg-Benedict]

This is a really tough one. I think the first decision for you is whether you are okay with being in California. Personally, I would go with Kaiser because all of your other options have insane loans. Kaiser matched people into competitive specialties, so I don't think you have to worry about that.

If living in California would truly be unacceptable to you, then I think the choice becomes even more difficult, but don't bust your brain trying to figure out which you would choose between Pitt vs. Jeff. BU vs. UMass if you're going to choose Kaiser anyway.

 

[Opuntia]

Curious if you ended up making your decision!

 

[margatsni]

Curious if you ended up making your decision!

Hi, I haven't decided yet but I am leaning towards Kaiser. The money factor is the bigger reason because I really want to maintain financial health. Especially with 3rd party materials becoming major learning tools, I just don't see how I would justify spending hundreds of thousands if I don't absolutely have to. Not sure what to make of it but the UPMC layoffs/fin loss is also kind of making me pivot back to the financial factor. It is likely very irrelevant for students and medical education in general but turmoil in any form is usually not a good sign so I'm keeping it in mind.

I'm not 100% on kaiser yet because I am still skeptical of the generic way they presented their match info unless I missed the full list somewhere. Also skeptical of a few other things I picked up on during SL which makes me uneasy, like how they might deal with LoA and the like. I am also not a fan of their service-learning curriculum which seemed less service-like and more of a checklist item. On the other hand, I'm feeling better about their direction now that they have a new dean and the person seems to have positive responses from their colleagues so that takes away a negative because I definitely didn't want to go to a school with an unnamed dean. I do wish I could hear the thoughts of physicians/academicians from outside the school about the perception of the school so far but haven't seen much of that so far.

 

[Opuntia]

@margatsni, all your points are super valid, and I completely relate!! I'm currently deciding Kaiser (full COA) v. Harvard v. U Chicago (full-tuition). I think I'm picking Kaiser! I am happy to chat more in DMs if you want. I was also worried about the generic match list, but an MS2 showed me the full list during SLW. Do you have any specific concerns about the match info? I think it was reported pretty generically to respect the privacy of students. But still, I recognize that it's literally only one year, and if we attend KPSOM, we'll have to trust that the coming years of students will also be successful. They did recently update their website here, but it's still pretty generic: 2024 Match Results | Kaiser Permanente Bernard J. Tyson School of Medicine.

I'm curious about your LoA concern! Would be great to know for my own decision-making process haha

Yeah, the new dean looks really great! And, I'm really happy that the former dean is staying with the school as a professor. I think that's a good sign!

Regarding the service-learning curriculum, I think I feel similarly. I've focused a lot on health equity a lot over the past few years, and I plan to continue the work wherever I end up. I think I'll have to be deliberate about the clubs/organizations I join as well as the research I engage in. I'm reassured by the KP research infrastructure and my ability to customize my education as I want. The KP system has done tons of previous research on health equity (Health Equity). I also plan to pursue lots of electives outside the Kaiser system during M3 year so that I can better understand the health landscape in LA outside of the context of the Kaiser system. I imagine there may be more exposure to the reality of health disparities outside of Kaiser's integrated health system (but I'm sure they are present in KP too).

For what it's worth, one of my mentors reached out to two people in MedEd (former dean of a T15 & a dean of a public health school/surgeon), and they both had glowing reviews of the school. I also talked to someone on a residency application review committee in NorCal. He said they place far greater weight on numbers and extracurriculars than on the school name (I'm sure different programs weight school name differently, but it was nice to know that it's not everything). I also spoke to an MS3 who said that preceptors outside the KP system have been impressed by Kaiser students.

I have spent hours upon hours agonizing about this decision, and I really think Kaiser is where I'll be happiest. Thankfully, I think it's also the option that is best suited to my learning style (small-group & case-based learning, third-party resources integrated into the curriculum, strong focus on clinical applicability, etc.). And free is no small matter! Throughout this process, I've tried to learn what I'd be gaining by going to other schools, and I don't think those gains are significant enough to justify paying boatloads of money. And, I think I'll actually be gaining a LOT by going to Kaiser. But I totally understand that weighing those pros/cons is a very personal decision.

I'd love to hear more about any concerns you have about the school if you're willing to share! Trying to get a full picture of the major cons before making my final decision! Wishing you all the best on your decision. You have some truly wonderful options!!