Physician Salary Figures

[jdh71]

God I really can't believe that I was that stupid just a few years ago. The conspiracy theories that you guys come up with are insane. I mean how conceited do you have to be to believe that physicians are manipulating data to trick premeds? No one thinks about you ever

To be fair this was a topic for discussion at our evil doctor meetings this last week.

Maniacal laughter was had by all.

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[jdh71]

wtf

You obviously are not from the United States and have never been in one of our cities!

Welcome to the US. We all hope you like it here.

 

[famoussquamous]

I think it is very unlikely that physicians manipulate salary surveys in sole hopes of dissuading premeds from entering the field.

It's probably more so that the public doesn't know how much doctors ACTUALLY make, they'd get targeted even more than they are now.

1. I highly doubt you know your friends' parents salaries

2. Shocking that someone in practice for >20 years makes above the average for the field. That's called seniority, promotion, business ownership, partnership (depending on what model of practice they are in). Very few fields do you reach your maximum earning potential on day one.

3. High spending =/= high net worth. Many people spend above their means, particularly those with daughters obsessed with status symbols. Using purchases like handbags and cars as a means of estimating how much someone makes is a foolish way of thinking.

4. Everyone knows that physicians even as early as a generation ago had it a lot easier. Student loan debt has increased drastically. Reimbursements are down. Private practice is harder and harder to compete in.

5. The majority of these surveys (including the doximity one) don't allow resident/fellow participation, or have you specify that you are a resident.

6. The thought that there is a broad conspiracy to underreport salaries (on a scale of 10s of thousands of doctors responding every specialty and across regions of the country), is patently absurd.

Of all the doctors I shadowed, most told me how much they made (roughly), and the survey data is definitely somewhat less than most physicians actually make. Again, I don't live in Boston/NYC/LA, so salaries are probably a lot higher than what you'd see in those places.

 

[Frazier]

It's probably more so that the public doesn't know how much doctors ACTUALLY make, they'd get targeted even more than they are now.

Of all the doctors I shadowed, most told me how much they made (roughly), and the survey data is definitely somewhat less than most physicians actually make. Again, I don't live in Boston/NYC/LA, so salaries are probably a lot higher than what you'd see in those places.

I think you are inversely correct, the public thinks that physicians make much more than they actually do, IMO.

"Millionaire doctor this"
"Rich doctor that"

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

Of all the doctors I shadowed, most told me how much they made (roughly), and the survey data is definitely somewhat less than most physicians actually make. Again, I don't live in Boston/NYC/LA, so salaries are probably a lot higher than what you'd see in those places.

How could you come to this conclusion from your small sample size and probably selection bias?

 

[Roxas]

I think you are inversely correct, the public thinks that physicians make much more than they actually do, IMO.

"Millionaire doctor this"
"Rich doctor that"

Or even if they are in the correct vicinity on the salary, they neglect all the years of living on nothing, and the years paying back loans.

200k a year from the age of 26 makes me sound a whole better off than paying back loans and taking home my first full paycheck when I'm 40

 

[jdh71]

I think you are inversely correct, the public thinks that physicians make much more than they actually do, IMO.

"Millionaire doctor this"
"Rich doctor that"

There are very few millionaire docs.

Physicians do better than the average obviously by pure numbers but they are not "rich" or "wealthy" by virtue of their yearly income.

Rich people own islands. And get on their own jets at noon to have dinner in Paris that evening. Let's not confuse things.

 

[IlDestriero]

A millionaire is a person with >$1M, or alternately, a person with a net worth of >$1M.
Many physicians are the former, all should be the latter before too long.
Few specialists are in the 7 figure club, which would be a 7 figure income, though that may be achievable in dual professional families.

 

[jdh71]

I definitely meant *making* a million dollars or year. Those people are spine surgeons and the others are rare guys who are not in the same kind of position as most physicians - maybe they are a senior partner of a particularly lucrative group or some other such not exactly not exactly normal position. Most docs working for their money don't pull in a million a year - even two physician household, most are not going to realistically break above a million dollars per year.

I do agree with the above that creating an *eventual* net worth of a million or more is doable if one wants to.

 

[anbuitachi]

I heard medscape surveys are the most representative. Though w/e surveys you look at, by the time you finish residency, it will mostly be less! Or stay ~ the same but you work more! Yay to the future of medicine! Lets all continue to be slaves of patients, politicians, lawyers, administrators, and insurance companies! Yay!

 

[Narmerguy]

I don't know if I've ever seen a profession who believes they're compensated sufficiently.

 

[anbuitachi]

I don't know if I've ever seen a professional who believes they're compensated sufficiently.

i have quite a few friends in CS who are very happy with their earnings..

 

[jeffk805dent]

i have quite a few friends in CS who are very happy with their earnings..

Kobe Bryant also comes to mind. At least for this year.

 

[Narmerguy]

i have quite a few friends in CS who are very happy with their earnings..

Kobe Bryant also comes to mind. At least for this year.

Typo, I meant profession. You'll find people at McDonald's who are happy with their $7/hour. There's always those who feel their services are worth more and those who are quite happy with what they have. A lot of it simply depends where you are on the food chain relative to your peers.

 

[jdh71]

I don't know if I've ever seen a profession who believes they're compensated sufficiently.

Wait until you are actually working and you'll see why.

 

[Narmerguy]

Wait until you are actually working and you'll see why.

Right, yet it somehow loses its punch when everyone seems to think they're undervalued. Working hard is hard, it's hard to feel satisfied putting a cap on what one's hard effort is worth. I work pretty hard and imagine that my work is worth a pretty penny, but so do a lot of people. At the end of the day there's no mystery about which careers earn the most and if I didn't think I could bear the income of a physician I would be preparing for a different career. What's funny is that it doesn't matter what the career is, every group you talk to feels they're underappreciated, undervalued, and undercompensated. I think there are a few potential exceptions--CS is a hot field right now with great lifestyle even with just an undergraduate degree--but no one feels they deserve less money and no one who works hard doesn't feel they've earned it. From someone on the outside looking in, the pattern is amusing.

 

[jdh71]

Right, yet it somehow loses its punch when everyone seems to think they're undervalued. Working hard is hard, it's hard to feel satisfied putting a cap on what one's hard effort is worth. I work pretty hard and imagine that my work is worth a pretty penny, but so do a lot of people. At the end of the day there's no mystery about which careers earn the most and if I didn't think I could bear the income of a physician I would be preparing for a different career. What's funny is that it doesn't matter what the career is, every group you talk to feels they're underappreciated, undervalued, and undercompensated. I think there are a few potential exceptions--CS is a hot field right now with great lifestyle even with just an undergraduate degree--but no one feels they deserve less money and no one who works hard doesn't feel they've earned it. From someone on the outside looking in, the pattern is amusing.

Oh. I don't know. I think you could find a good amount of people making obnoxious amounts of money who know it. I don't begrudge them.

Like I said. Wait until you actually start working. There is LITERALLY no one smarter about the would than a medical student on SDN. realstory.jpg

I'm sorry I interrupted your already figured it all out narrative but none of us in medicine. None. Gets paid what we are actually worth. You'll see.

I know you guys love to hate to hear that. Some of it is smartest guy in the room syndrome and some of it is being a millennial. I try not to hold it against you guys too much. Time will fix a lot of this. And experience.

 

[Narmerguy]

Oh. I don't know. I think you could find a good amount of people making obnoxious amounts of money who know it. I don't begrudge them.

Like I said. Wait until you actually start working. There is LITERALLY no one smarter about the would than a medical student on SDN. realstory.jpg

I'm sorry I interrupted your already figured it all out narrative but none of us in medicine. None. Gets paid what we are actually worth. You'll see.

I know you guys love to hate to hear that. Some of it is smartest guy in the room syndrome and some of it is being a millennial. I try not to hold it against you guys too much. Time will fix a lot of this. And experience.

I think ultimately it doesn't really matter--we're all in this so we'll get paid what we get paid and nothing more and nothing less. Worrying about it changes nothing. You made your choice, hopefully you chose it for reasons that are fulfilling and meaningful for you, and whatever role money plays in that it plays. I certainly don't think I've "figured it all out", but I would say that these things aren't all that complicated to figure out. It's life, everyone deals with it.

 

[jdh71]

I think ultimately it doesn't really matter--we're all in this so we'll get paid what we get paid and nothing more and nothing less. Worrying about it changes nothing. You made your choice, hopefully you chose it for reasons that are fulfilling and meaningful for you, and whatever role money plays in that it plays. I certainly don't think I've "figured it all out", but I would say that these things aren't all that complicated to figure out. It's life, everyone deals with it.

When did I say I was worried about it?

Where did I intimate I was having trouble understanding the practical realities here?

It's just the truth. No one is paid enough for what we do. You seem to think that this is a throw away line. It's not. However, the only way you'll know that I'm correct on this will be to start working. You lack context to have a fully formed opinion. Though it is the internet and a free forum so you have a right to say what you like.