PharmD=Doctor not professional

[starvinstudent]

I agree with what you are saying it is the pharmacy community. Most pharmacist just care about MAKING MONEY. NOT patient care or anything else. They don't care what they are called as long as they make money. I think that in order to change the professional image of pharmacy we should work together as a group to change it. Obviously people respect us and blah blah blah. But we are still one of the few health-care professionals that are NOT called Dr. despite a doctorate degree. I wish someone told me this as a student because I would never want to be part of a field that only cares about money and not their profession.

I have known a few pharmacists and I am not so sure that all they care about is money. I just think many are overwhelmed and frustrated with their chosen profession.

I do think that they are not respected though, this is obvious because they are not called DOCTORS.

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[sdn1977]

There is an easy explanation to this.

Dentists and physicians are referred to as doctors because they GIVE medical treatment.

Pharmacists prescribe what the DOCTOR calls for.
Pharmacists also in my opinion do not have the most respected position. For example, how many times have you went to a Doctor and had them wait on you at the cash register and take your money and count your change like a pharmacist? that stinks.

Pharmacists also have it easy these days, they just put your info in the computer and the computer tells if you have any drug reaction, etc.

When was the last time a person went to the dentist or physician and they were able to ask the computer for information or advice?

Just my 2 cents. Its not as respected of a profession as many think.

OH, Also, I totally disagree with calling college professors DOCTOR just because they earned a doctorate in some narrow field of study. thats stupid and why I dont do it.

Goodness! There is so much wrong in this and the last few posts. But...its a very old argument and one which becomes moot after a pharmacist has worked a bit. But...I will tell starvin....you'll perhaps never know when I've used my education and my judgement from those HUNDREDS of DURs that I see on my computer to avoid a potentially harmful drug or dosage error for you or for one of your children. Fortunately, most of us don't need nor want your 2 cents, but some of us do wonder why those who choose to denigrate feel the need to do so? Be careful what generalizations you make.....my dentist husband could go on and on about his use of the five computers in his office!

 

[Requiem]

Troll after troll after idiot after idiot.

 

[starvinstudent]

Troll after troll after idiot after idiot.

Please tell me if you are referring to me. If so you are in violation of the SDN rules of conduct as name calling is not allowed.


I am sorry if I disrespected your profession but the facts remain the same, pharmacists are pharmacists and not doctors, the end.

 

[VCU07]

First, I'm not a pharm student but three friends of mine are. I'm currently working on my DO degree so I'm kind of the black sheep among them. I was just surfing through the forums when I found this thread and for some reason it caught my eye. What I am about to say is not meant to offend anyone.

BS in pharm = 4 years = pharmacist

PharmD = 2 yr. undergrad + 4 yr prof. school = pharmacist

DDS, OD, MD/DO PhD = 4 yrs. undergrad + 4 years prof/graduate school

If you guys are concerned about being called Dr:

1. up your standards for admission into PharmD school
2. phase out or require BS in pharm to become PharmD.

I know a lot of PharmD students have advanced degrees but the minimum for admission into PharmD school is still 2 years undergrad.

If all pharmacists are PharmD, with equal minimum education with the rest of professions calling themselves doctor, then it makes it a lot easier for people to look upon you as a doctor. This delemma your occupation faces is internal and can only be corrected internally.

Personally, I don't understand whats the big deal with a title or degree behind your name. If it allows you to enter the career you want and with the same salary as your counterparts then why should it matter.

Anyone standing behind the counter working in the Pharmacy has my respect. It doesn't matter if that person is the tech, BS in pharm, PharmD, or the person hired to run the till, they all have my respect initially. It is how they treat me as a customer, and as a future colleague, in determining if they will continue to get my respect in the future. Remember, respect is earned and not given with education or position of authority.

You guys have one of the hottest careers out there so quit worrying about semantics. Revel in the fact that you are part of it and not looking in from the other side of the fence.

Werty

I agree with most of what you have stated, but a BS/BA degree is not required to enter medical or dental school either. I know quite a few people who got in with 3 yrs of undergrad and/or entered 6yr programs. Also, there are no BS pharm degrees offered anymore...it is all PharmD, which at minimum would take 6yrs. Pharmacy school is 4 yrs after undergrad just like medical or dental schools. So, I don't believe the argument that we as a profession have less education, esp. when 6yr MD programs still exist. Furthermore, undergrad is nothing like professional school. So, how can one say we don't have equal education.

 

[Requiem]

Please tell me if you are referring to me. If so you are in violation of the SDN rules of conduct as name calling is not allowed.


I am sorry if I disrespected your profession but the facts remain the same, pharmacists are pharmacists and not doctors, the end.

Yeah, you're one of them.

I'm sorry if I insulted your intelligence, but the fact remains the same, you're completely wrong. A PharmD is a doctor of pharmacy.

 

[VCU07]

There is an easy explanation to this.

Dentists and physicians are referred to as doctors because they GIVE medical treatment.

Pharmacists prescribe what the DOCTOR calls for.
Pharmacists also in my opinion do not have the most respected position. For example, how many times have you went to a Doctor and had them wait on you at the cash register and take your money and count your change like a pharmacist? that stinks.

Pharmacists also have it easy these days, they just put your info in the computer and the computer tells if you have any drug reaction, etc.

When was the last time a person went to the dentist or physician and they were able to ask the computer for information or advice?

Just my 2 cents. Its not as respected of a profession as many think.

OH, Also, I totally disagree with calling college professors DOCTOR just because they earned a doctorate in some narrow field of study. thats stupid and why I dont do it.

No, they do not ask the computer for advice...just their PDAs. By the way, if their offices had no receptionists...the physicians and dentists would be counting change-I gurantee it. Finally, those who have completed a doctoral degree should be considered doctors...not just those who provide medical services. A college professor teaches future physicians, dentists, and pharmacists. So, exactly why are they not doctors?

 

[Shovingit]

BS in pharm = 4 years = pharmacist

PharmD = 2 yr. undergrad + 4 yr prof. school = pharmacist

DDS, OD, MD/DO PhD = 4 yrs. undergrad + 4 years prof/graduate school

Valid points. I know an MD who was admitted into Baylor Med school after 2 yrs undergrad. Should he be considered any less a doctor than an MD who earned a BS first? This case is rare, but med schools do not REQUIRE a BS or 4 yrs undergrad. They are the same as pharmacy. In my eyes the major difference is that an MD has to do residency whereas a pharmacist is not required to do this.

The fact of the matter is DDS MD and PharmD are all professional degrees. They all grant the recipient the title "Dr."

 

[imperial frog]

I do think that they are not respected though, this is obvious because they are not called DOCTORS.

So by that reasoning the only people who get/deserve respect are people called doctors. You, and quite a few others, are really hung up over 6 letters.

 

[rxlynn]

OK - I'll wade in here in terms of the PhD's. I'm not sure if the original poster ever knew anyone personally who completed a PhD in the sciences, but I can assure you from watching my sister and her husband, it is certainly an accomplishment that merits the title of Doctor. PhD in the sciences is typically a 5 year (could be more) term. It includes classes and several years of original research. Candidates must pass a comprehensive exam covering ALL of their course material, and must write a dissertation (which in my sister's case was approximately 200 pages). They must also pass a verbal examination on their dissertation before getting their degree, and generally are expected to publish in appropriate journals at least a few articles. And, many science PhD students are also on a teaching assistantship to help pay for their school, so they have time obligations for that also. I (at one point long ago) thought I was going to get a PhD in chemistry. There were roughly 30 students entering in my class, and I am only aware of 4 who made it all the way through to the PhD. Personally, I like the odds of making it all the way through pharmacy school or med school a lot better.

 

[pharmduic]

Valid points. I know an MD who was admitted into Baylor Med school after 2 yrs undergrad. Should he be considered any less a doctor than an MD who earned a BS first? This case is rare, but med schools do not REQUIRE a BS or 4 yrs undergrad. They are the same as pharmacy. In my eyes the major difference is that an MD has to do residency whereas a pharmacist is not required to do this.

The fact of the matter is DDS MD and PharmD are all professional degrees. They all grant the recipient the title "Dr."

PharmD should have the title Dr. however it does not. In community pharmacy they usually call pharmD by first name and also in the clinical setting. So unfortunately PharmDs are the least respected

 

[kristakoch]

There is an easy explanation to this.

Dentists and physicians are referred to as doctors because they GIVE medical treatment.

Pharmacists prescribe what the DOCTOR calls for.
Pharmacists also in my opinion do not have the most respected position. For example, how many times have you went to a Doctor and had them wait on you at the cash register and take your money and count your change like a pharmacist? that stinks.

Pharmacists also have it easy these days, they just put your info in the computer and the computer tells if you have any drug reaction, etc.

When was the last time a person went to the dentist or physician and they were able to ask the computer for information or advice?
Just my 2 cents. Its not as respected of a profession as many think.

OH, Also, I totally disagree with calling college professors DOCTOR just because they earned a doctorate in some narrow field of study. thats stupid and why I dont do it.

Have you been around any MDs (or DOs) lately? Almost all of them carry a PDA and use it regularly. Also they use UpToDate,Micromedex, etc to look things up. Trust me, MDs look up info on computers all the time. And when you are in the hospital, they call the pharmacy all the time for recommendations because they don't know what to prescribe, dose, etc.

 

[bananaface]

Please tell me if you are referring to me. If so you are in violation of the SDN rules of conduct as name calling is not allowed.


I am sorry if I disrespected your profession but the facts remain the same, pharmacists are pharmacists and not doctors, the end.

PharmDs are doctors. As stated above, the D in PharmD stands for doctor. What we are not is physicians. It is unfortunate that too few people appreciate that "MD" is not the only title that earns the title "doctor".

PharmD should have the title Dr. however it does not. In community pharmacy they usually call pharmD by first name and also in the clinical setting. So unfortunately PharmDs are the least respected

Most physicians who work with pharmacists respect them. If you work closely with physicians, you may end up calling them by their first names on occassion. There is no disrespect inherent in using a first name.

 

[imkim01]

Remember, respect is earned and not given with education or position of authority.

It is so true that respect should be earned. But please don't tell me you need to earn a respect to be called Dr. Most of pharmacist earned the pharmD degree so they can be called Dr XXX. People don't need to earn any respect to be called Dr but need to earn the doctoral degree in somewhere. I have had few professors in undergaduate and no one respected them. However, we all called them Dr. XXX without any problem because they had earned their degree in their area.

Let's not look down our profession by saying the focus of most pharmacists are making money.

People from other profession... it is ok to ask a question regarding profession but please don't criticize or underestimate with less respect. Every profession should be respected.

 

[Kaya31]

PharmD should have the title Dr. however it does not. In community pharmacy they usually call pharmD by first name and also in the clinical setting. So unfortunately PharmDs are the least respected

Part of what attracted me to the field of pharmacy is how approachable pharmacists are. I would much prefer people to use my first name, rather than call me Dr. They will not respect the title but they will respect me if I am knowledgeable in my chosen field, and able to educate and help patients. I'll be happy knowing that I have a career that I am passionate about.

 

[ultracet]

And to bbmuffin, you're ridiculous. What kind of stupid statement was that, that you as a pharmacy student can judge whether or not your superior should be called doctor, when he quite simply is a doctor and can be called by that if he wishes. (ps why would you call the degree youre trying to earn, "stupid"?)

That's why i said in 5 short months some of us will be pharmds soon....


and as far as me calling the pharmd stupid.... its just a degree people!
come on!

its a piece of paper.... yeah its hard work for some to get it... yes it can be extremely expensive... but please... in the end it means nothing if you don't do something worthwhile with your life.


and as i said...
no degree entitles you to my respect

 

[imperial frog]

Most of pharmacist earned the pharmD degree so they can be called Dr XXX.

I know of absolutely no one who earned a pharmD so they could be called Dr. Pretty much everyone earns it because it's what is required to practice.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Dentists and physicians are referred to as doctors because they GIVE medical treatment.

So phDs are called doctors too because they give medical treatment right? Based on the definition by encarta.com, a doctor is:

Definitions:

1. health services somebody medically qualified: somebody qualified and licensed to give people medical treatment. Check, we are qualified and LICENSED to give medical treatment; ie counsel and recommend a form of treatment/medication


2. health services dentist, veterinarian, or osteopath: a title used before the names of health professionals such as dentists, veterinarians, and osteopaths. Check, we are a health professional


3. education somebody with highest university degree: a title given to somebody who has been awarded a doctorate, the highest level of degree awarded by a university. Check, we have the highest level of degree awarded by a university to any pharmacy student.


4. somebody who can fix things: a skilled practitioner of something, especially fixing or improving something . Check, we fix and improve stuff. From the printer to the insurance to your common congestion.


Pharmacists prescribe what the DOCTOR calls for.
Pharmacists also in my opinion do not have the most respected position. For example, how many times have you went to a Doctor and had them wait on you at the cash register and take your money and count your change like a pharmacist? that stinks.

Your opinion obviously does not matter here. According to most reports, surveys, and polls, pharmacist are the MOST trusted profession and only this year replaced by nurses. In terms of prestige based on the New York Times Social interactive chart, we are in the top quarter percentile of most PRESTIGOUS professions.

Pharmacists also have it easy these days, they just put your info in the computer and the computer tells if you have any drug reaction, etc.

Yeah so do doctors. Your doctors dont have a computer so they can check their e-mails and look at patients charts. They have a list of treatments for diseases. If the computer is that great with drug reactions/interactions, why have a pharmacist to begin with. Have you ever look and work carefully with a DUR? If you havent, you shouldnt comment on it.

When was the last time a person went to the dentist or physician and they were able to ask the computer for information or advice?
When was the last time a person went to the doctor and got their full attention ASAP? When was the last time they didnt have to pay a few hundred just so the doctor can prescribe him cortisone creams for psoriasis and it doesnt even work? an antibiotics for a viral infection?

Just my 2 cents. Its not as respected of a profession as many think. People will respect your 2 cents more if you have something to back it up with.

OH, Also, I totally disagree with calling college professors DOCTOR just because they earned a doctorate in some narrow field of study. thats stupid and why I dont do it.

and I TOTALLY disagree with doctors making me call them doctors when they come to my pharmacy and my practice. NOW THAT IS STUPID and why I dont do it. They take their job too seriously.

If the next thing you are going to argue about is that pharmacy being a profession or not, it has been held by law (numerous cases) that it is a profession. This means that if you go into a pharmacy and attack the pharmacist's professional judgement based on your opinions; you can be sued for it. Just something for you to think about.

 

[DHG]

This really is a topic worth thinking about. Dentists, Optometrists, Audiologists and PhD's have the same ammount of school and Doctoral degrees... all get called "Doctor" without argument. Pharmacists, however, with the same ammount of education, do not. Why is this? This is interesting. I think some of it is due to the change to the PharmD from the BS in Pharmacy, surely. Maybe this will change in the near future.

 

[pharmeronadell]

and as i said...
no degree entitles you to my respect

 

[ButlerPharm.D.]

Pharmacy, Medicine, Nursing are all Professional degree program i.e. The degree gives the student a licence, chartered or special competence, which is often required - or sometimes legally needed - to practice as a medical doctor, nurse, teacher, engineer and accounting etc.

*Note: In the U.S., despite its name, the J.D. degree is not a doctoral level degree. It is a first professional degree and does not confer the title of doctor. While normally taken after a bachelors-level degree, neither is the J.D. a masters-level degree. The LL.M., which is earned after the J.D., is a masters-level law degree. The S.J.D. (Doctor of Juridical Science) is considered a doctoral-level degree and is the highest American degree in law.

HENCE-an M.D., like a Pharm.D., is a PROFESSIONAL DEGREE and not a GRADUATE degree.

 

[tupac_don]

Valid points. I know an MD who was admitted into Baylor Med school after 2 yrs undergrad. Should he be considered any less a doctor than an MD who earned a BS first? This case is rare, but med schools do not REQUIRE a BS or 4 yrs undergrad. They are the same as pharmacy. In my eyes the major difference is that an MD has to do residency whereas a pharmacist is not required to do this.

The fact of the matter is DDS MD and PharmD are all professional degrees. They all grant the recipient the title "Dr."

Well there is also the difference of sheer amount of material thrown at you. Having done pharmacy and doing med school. Med school has about 3x more material that is covered than pharmacy. Much more quantity oriented and faster than pharmacy school. Yes they are all professional, but as you will see as a pharmacist you dont' have much decision making power, you pretty much gotta go through a doctor to change any med, except if a hospital has a policy that bypasses the doctor.

 

[imperial frog]

This really is a topic worth thinking about. Dentists, Optometrists, Audiologists and PhD's have the same ammount of school and Doctoral degrees... all get called "Doctor" without argument. Pharmacists, however, with the same ammount of education, do not. Why is this? This is interesting. I think some of it is due to the change to the PharmD from the BS in Pharmacy, surely. Maybe this will change in the near future.

It's not some...pretty much all of it is due to the fact that the PharmD is relatively new and isn't an absolute requirement as of yet as long as BS pharmacists are grandfathered in. Look at how many generations grew up without the PharmD being in existence. It's going to take some time before they come around...or they die off.

 

[gdk420]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor

Read and enjoy. Man I should go back and call my high school teacher, Dr... then.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor

Read and enjoy. Man I should go back and call my high school teacher, Dr... then.

In American and Canadian parlance, "doctor" is most often used for all types of physicians and surgeons, including internists, pediatricians, gynecologists, and all other surgical and nonsurgical specialists who hold M.D. degrees. The term also applies to physicians from other fields of medicine, to which the degree 'M.D.' is inapplicable, including doctors of Osteopathy (D.O.), doctors of Podiatric Medicine (D.P.M.), doctors of Optometry (O.D.), and so on.

Ie, Doctor of Pharmacy. Honestly. .. I think encarta is a more reliable source than wikipedia but regardless, you can call a pharmacist a doctor. What is not okay is a pharmacist thinking that he is a physician.

 

[dgroulx]

Well there is also the difference of sheer amount of material thrown at you. Having done pharmacy and doing med school. Med school has about 3x more material that is covered than pharmacy. Much more quantity oriented and faster than pharmacy school.

That probably varies from school to school and from year to year. The boyfriend of a girl in my class is in UF's medical school and one year ahead of her. They are able to see first hand the differences. Both agreed that the pharmacy program was equivalent to the medical program in the amount of material you must learn. I think the main difference is that you have less time for didactic studies in med school than pharm school, so you have to learn it quicker. We have one year of rotations versus two in med school.

I think that pharmacy programs are continuously growing and adding more material. The curriculum at UF has been revised since I've started there. Some of our younger professors with PharmD degrees have stated that we have much more to learn then they did.

 

[wertyjoe]

To the future dentist, a B.Sc. Pharm is 5 years, not 4.

I'm sorry, your right on the BS in pharm is a 5 year degree. I'll change my previous post. I don't mean to be an a$$ but a DO is not a dentist. You might want to be aware of this if your going to be a pharmacist.

 

[wertyjoe]

I agree with most of what you have stated, but a BS/BA degree is not required to enter medical or dental school either. I know quite a few people who got in with 3 yrs of undergrad and/or entered 6yr programs.

There will always be exception to the rule! You are correct in that it is not required to enter, however the people who enter without a BS/BA will have one before they graduate medical school. It is usually part of the agreement.

[/QUOTE] Also, there are no BS pharm degrees offered anymore...it is all PharmD, which at minimum would take 6yrs. Pharmacy school is 4 yrs after undergrad just like medical or dental schools..[/QUOTE]

They maybe not offering BS pharm degrees but they are still working in your profession. Phase them out soon or require them do get a PharmD that way all pharmicist will be doctors. This way there will be a lot less confusion among lay people.

[/QUOTE] So, I don't believe the argument that we as a profession have less education, esp. when 6yr MD programs still exist. Furthermore, undergrad is nothing like professional school. So, how can one say we don't have equal education.[/QUOTE]

What I'm saying is that PharmD standards for admission are lower by not requiring an equivalent amount of education compared to other professional degrees for admission. Sure there are students who don't have a BS/BA when they enter medical school but they are far and few between. I know of only one in my class of 200+ and he will have one before he graduates medical school because its required in his early admission program.

I'm not trying to cause a fight here. I'm just trying to say that if you want to be called a doctor level the playing field.

1. Don't have two degrees of unequal length of training performing the same job.

2. up your admission standards so that it is equal with MD/DO, DDS, OD, etc.

I'm all for you guys wanting to be called doctors but just don't add a year of school, slap a doctorate on it, and expect to be called doctors. Especially when the person with the BS in pharm is doing the same job.

If I had a BS in pharm and some young punk who just graduated with a PharmD was complaining about not being called Doc I would say, "To f**ckin bad, how do you think I feel."

 

[wertyjoe]

Let's not look down our profession by saying the focus of most pharmacists are making money.

People from other profession... it is ok to ask a question regarding profession but please don't criticize or underestimate with less respect. Every profession should be respected.

If you read my post completely you would see that I am not trying to put down your occupation. Instead, I am trying give my point of view on the semantics of being called Doctor. Please don't read to much into my post or manipulate my words.

I'm just saying that Pharmacist should level the playing field if you want to be called doctors. This is the only way that people will look at you and address you as a "doctor" of pharmacy and not just a "pharmacist."

I mean no disrepect. I was once considering pharmacy but my interest shifted to medicine.

 

[DHG]

It's not some...pretty much all of it is due to the fact that the PharmD is relatively new and isn't an absolute requirement as of yet as long as BS pharmacists are grandfathered in. Look at how many generations grew up without the PharmD being in existence. It's going to take some time before they come around...or they die off.

Well there you are then... I think I see an evil solution shaping up...

 

[wertyjoe]

It is so true that respect should be earned. But please don't tell me you need to earn a respect to be called Dr. Most of pharmacist earned the pharmD degree so they can be called Dr XXX. People don't need to earn any respect to be called Dr but need to earn the doctoral degree in somewhere. I have had few professors in undergaduate and no one respected them. However, we all called them Dr. XXX without any problem because they had earned their degree in their area.

I'm not saying you need to earn respect to be called doctor. What I was saying is that respect has nothing to do with being a doctor. Respect is independent of having a doctorate.

Professors are called doctor because some demand it and students are obligated because their grade are in their hands.

A lot of people show respect but don't actually mean it. They do it because they are in need of something and don't want to jeopardize it. Just look at most work places. People are usually talking crap about the company and the managment until the boss walks in, then they are whistling a different tune. True respect is always earned.

Let's not look down our profession by saying the focus of most pharmacists are making money.

I never said that! I said you guys have the hottest profession out there right now, you should be proud of it, and should stop worrying about semantics. This has to with money but most importantly the lifestyle to enjoy it.

 

[highlyfavored]

When was the last time a person went to the dentist or physician and they were able to ask the computer for information or advice?

I've seen doctors during rounds pull out their PDAs to check drug interactions etc... I've also seen MDs' Rxs with the wrong mg on them.
Hmmmm, so I guess they don't have all the answers either.

 

[Caliyaddamean]

Professors are called doctor because some demand it and students are obligated because their grade are in their hands. [/B]

Thats true about some professors

 

[calrx]

I've seen doctors during rounds pull out their PDAs to check drug interactions etc... I've also seen MDs' Rxs with the wrong mg on them. Hmmmm, so I guess they don't have all the answers either.

Ha, exactly. I couldn't even begin to count the number of times I've been working and the pharmacist has turned to me laughing and rolling his/her eyes because of some ridiculous way a doctor has spelled a drug, made up a nonexistent mg, or written an RX with a sig lethal enough to kill a 300lb man.

My favorite is when one of the above happens and the pharmacist has to call and correct the physician, only to have the doctor insist that he didn't make that mistake... yea, ok buddy... you're a physician, not God.

 

[Moxxie]

yea, ok buddy... you're a physician, not God.

QFT

 

[spacecowgirl]

When was the last time a person went to the dentist or physician and they were able to ask the computer for information or advice?

If they did, they might not write for Tylenol 70 mg IV

 

[SomeGuy]

I'd jump into this thread, but my cardiologist recommended that I avoid stressful situations that come with no benefits.

 

[pharmeronadell]

In all seriousness, there is a great discussion about this here .

 

[pharmacology]

Professors are called doctor because some demand it and students are obligated because their grade are in their hands.

This should be changed. Instead of "Demand it", it should read, "Deserve it". And students should be obligated. Professors are the teachers, students are...well students. Not saying every professor is a professional, but the institution deserves the title. A Ph.D is a scholar. Although I will agree there are a few arrogant professors out there.

Give the PharmD community 10-20 years and they will become known as Dr. The PharmD is a very new degree <10-15 years old. Give yourself time.

And some of you will be happy to learn of this: An old girlfriend of mine, initially knew I was a doctor. Once she learned I had a Ph.D. she so sweetly said, "Oh, I thought you were a REAL doctor." The relationship didn't last long after that!

 

[Shovingit]

And some of you will be happy to learn of this: An old girlfriend of mine, initially knew I was a doctor. Once she learned I had a Ph.D. she so sweetly said, "Oh, I thought you were a REAL doctor." The relationship didn't last long after that!

 

[sdn1977]

This should be changed. Instead of "Demand it", it should read, "Deserve it". And students should be obligated. Professors are the teachers, students are...well students. Not saying every professor is a professional, but the institution deserves the title. A Ph.D is a scholar. Although I will agree there are a few arrogant professors out there.

Give the PharmD community 10-20 years and they will become known as Dr. The PharmD is a very new degree <10-15 years old. Give yourself time.

And some of you will be happy to learn of this: An old girlfriend of mine, initially knew I was a doctor. Once she learned I had a Ph.D. she so sweetly said, "Oh, I thought you were a REAL doctor." The relationship didn't last long after that!

Although I agree with all you've said....I will be picky. I received my Pharm.D. in 1977 and mine was not the first class (I think the first class was the late 60's - 68 or 69). So...the degree has been around for more than 30 years. This argument first manifested itself as who is better - BS in pharmacy or Pharm.D (stupid argument then as it is now!, IMO) then went into a "who do they think they are calling themselves Dr when we (BS pharmacists) do the same thing. There will always be folks, IMO who are concerned about having the correct letters after their names and being addressed in a correct fashion. This concern is even more prevalent in the medical forums with the MD/DO discussions. I really don't know when or if it will ever sort itself out, but in my 29 years as a Pharm.D. pharmacist, I've only had great respect for all those who have attempted to enter the long academic paths it requires to earn ANY doctorate. I also have tremendous respect for all the pharmacists I've been fortunate to work with - BS or Pharm.D. We have ALL benefited from the changes in pharmacy education that came about at the end of the last century. Perhaps that is why I've only ever received respect from others myself?????

 

[bananaface]

Honestly, the best people to work, academically and otherwise, with are usually the ones who are not hung up on what they are called. They tend to be more approachable.

I don't think students should be obligated to call professors by the title "doctor". Calling someone "Professor XYZ" is not less respectful than calling them "Dr XYZ". I think the issue is that some people feel untitled names aren't formal enough or don't come with a respect laden vibe. Sometimes formality is unecessary. And, not everyone needs a title to feel respected.

During undergrad, I had a friend who had a hard time NOT calling professors "Mr." and "Ms."

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Seeing all of the superiority complexes abound in the health professions as displayed here is kinda frightening. Just call everyone by there first name. There, problem solved. F' putting people up on pedestals. I certainly don't think physicians, optometrists, or dentists are any more intelligent than me or knowledgeable in their little corner of practice than I am in mine; or any more worthy of titledom than me. Especially after working in the real world for a while and seeing some of the idiotic things they do.

 

[bananaface]

Seeing all of the superiority complexes abound in the health professions as displayed here is kinda frightening. Just call everyone by there first name. There, problem solved. F' putting people up on pedestals. I certainly don't think physicians, optometrists, or dentists are any more intelligent than me or knowledgeable in their little corner of practice than I am in mine; or any more worthy of titledom than me. Especially after working in the real world for a while and seeing some of the idiotic things they do.

My old boss (a pharmacist) and one of the physicians he went to undergrad with started wrestling on the lobby floor one day.

 

[Kaya31]

In all seriousness, there is a great discussion about this here .

 

[fidelio]

You know, I think the reason people don't consider a lot of PhDs doctors is because when you're young, the main jobs kids say they want to be is

doctor,
scientist,
mailman,
mcdonald's worker.

So I guess people automatically think doctor as in physicians. I mean that's what we call them. Doctors. I myself don't really consider pharmacists doctors. I just think of them as pharmacists because they have their own name.

I can see why pharmacists should be called doctors if they're earning a doctorate degree, but I suppose when people say doctors they mean doctor doctors.

And I don't think of dentists as doctors either. I just think of them as dentists.

 

[MattPharmD]

I just think of them as pharmacists because they have their own name.

Kind of like the name physician for a medical doctor?

 

[fidelio]

Kind of like the name physician for a medical doctor?

Yea. Pretty much.
Only I've always called physicians doctors.

 

[gdk420]

In American and Canadian parlance, "doctor" is most often used for all types of physicians and surgeons, including internists, pediatricians, gynecologists, and all other surgical and nonsurgical specialists who hold M.D. degrees. The term also applies to physicians from other fields of medicine, to which the degree 'M.D.' is inapplicable, including doctors of Osteopathy (D.O.), doctors of Podiatric Medicine (D.P.M.), doctors of Optometry (O.D.), and so on.

Ie, Doctor of Pharmacy. Honestly. .. I think encarta is a more reliable source than wikipedia but regardless, you can call a pharmacist a doctor. What is not okay is a pharmacist thinking that he is a physician.

How about this source, DIRECTLY FROM THE AMA.

"A physician is an MD or DO (see above). Many people also refer to physicians informally as doctors, eg., "Doctor Smith." Strictly speaking, however, anyone with a doctorate degree (eg., PhD, EdD, PharmD [pharmacist], or DDS [dentist]) is a doctor as well."

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/3627.html#MD_DO

 

[21JumpStreet]

oops, mistake