Pharmacy Outlook is not gloomy!

www.westernu.edu/pharmacy/
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R2pharmD2 said:
Again, I'm not disagreeing with your main point that everyone is struggling to find jobs, but most people aren't making a 6 figure bet on their career upfront either. If I didn't feel like there was an excellent chance I'll have a job when I finish school, there's no way I make that investment in a PharmD. If my chances of getting a pharmacist position after school are only 50/50, there's a 50/50 chance I'm committing financial suicide. Somebody graduating with a bachelor's in business or underwater basket weaving or whatever can take a 40K job and have a reasonable expectation of paying off what little undergrad debt they're likely to have sometime before they die.
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What about an MBA or law school... They have much the same problem. Even more risk maybe.
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ozoneman said:
What about an MBA or law school... They have much the same problem. Even more risk maybe.
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I almost mentioned law school as an exception. As P4S has explained on here multiple times though, it's a different ball game in law. They have a clear tier system where if you graduate from a top tier school, your chances are excellent. Below that... not so much. If you can't get into a top law school, you at least know (or should know, if you've done your homework) that you're taking on a massive risk by going to a lower ranked school.

It's a similar story with MBAs. The ranking system probably isn't as firmly in place as in law, but graduates from highly ranked MBA programs tend to do well from what I understand. Definitely not my area of expertise though, so I could be mistaken here. Regardless, you're only looking at 2 years and about half the expense of a PharmD.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
I almost mentioned law school as an exception. As P4S has explained on here multiple times though, it's a different ball game in law. They have a clear tier system where if you graduate from a top tier school, your chances are excellent. Below that... not so much. If you can't get into a top law school, you at least know (or should know, if you've done your homework) that you're taking on a massive risk by going to a lower ranked school.

It's a similar story with MBAs. The ranking system probably isn't as firmly in place as in law, but graduates from highly ranked MBA programs tend to do well from what I understand. Definitely not my area of expertise though, so I could be mistaken here. Regardless, you're only looking at 2 years and about half the expense of a PharmD.
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As someone who is graduating with a "Professional MBA" this semester from a run of the mill school, the program is all about the connections that you make in the field. Unless you attend a Top 20 school, a MBA doesn't do a great deal of good because they have become a dime a dozen and you're missing out on the connections that you receive from UNC or Duke. Now that I'm making the transition to pharmacy school, my degree won't make a TON of difference, but it'll be nice if I decide to go into pharmacy management. *shrug* With pharmacy, you're able to get a job in your field, with an MBA, there are multiple fields, but the degree is not a necessity to acheive a position so there's no guarantee that you'll have anything to show for your work.
 
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I think we agree with each other. But, the internet is where people have to argue.

As bad as the doom and gloom people think it is, all ships sink and rise with the tide. I blame the bad economy more than anything else.
 
ozoneman said:
I think we agree with each other. But, the internet is where people have to argue.

As bad as the doom and gloom people think it is, all ships sink and rise with the tide. I blame the bad economy more than anything else.
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Agreed! :laugh:

That's sort of my thinking too about the economy though. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it really is just the economy and jobs will be relatively plentiful 4 years from now when I'm graduating.
 
I really hate to say this, because I can almost guarantee it will offend at least someone, but as more and more no-name schools open up pharmacy programs it very well may start to matter a lot more where you went to pharmacy school. There was a time when a Pharm D was a Pharm D and it didn't really matter where it came from. Those days are likely coming to an end because too many programs at schools with questionable reputations are opening. Some people in charge of hiring pharmacists are giving preference to those with degrees from more established and well-known schools, right or wrong. I don't mean to suggest that a good school guarantees a job, but it is starting to make more of a difference. I work in a pharmacy and float around the different stores in the area, so I've had this discussion with more than one or two people, not to mention the people I know in clinical settings. Having said that, maybe the people I know are just particularly shallow and focused on the name.
 
I agree. Just like Stanford is better than CSU whatever; UCSF will hold better weight when a scarce job is available. It is really quite simple... When there is a shortage, anyone will do. When an employer has the luxury of being selective... he/she will be.
 
ozoneman said:
I agree. Just like Stanford is better than CSU whatever; UCSF will hold better weight when a scarce job is available. It is really quite simple... When there is a shortage, anyone will do. When an employer has the luxury of being selective... he/she will be.
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You'd think so, but UCSF folks are graduating and not having enough hours to write NAPLEX b/c they couldn't get sufficient intern hrs. during school. Additionally, I have volunteered at several hospitals in the bay area and have seen very few UCSF white coats, with the majority of the residents being from UoP, Touro & USC with a handful of Western folks and one guy from Creighton.

Unlike UG, or even law, pharmacy rank just doesn't mean diddly. It's all about alumni network. Where do the grads work? Those hospitals will show a distinct prejudice toward their alumni. I can't really talk about medicine b/c I have no idea what their rank structure really means (i.e., is it like law, or like pharmacy?)

I remember one particular UCSF student who frequents this board, Cheburashka, was trying so hard for summer hours during her P3 year she was calling places in Sacramento and even further, and couldn't find anything. She had very high grades & is a pretty awesome person, and expressed to us that her experience was not abnormal as well. *shrug*

YMMV but relying on brand-name schools / rank in pharmacy is dangerous.
 
Passion4Sci said:
You'd think so, but UCSF folks are graduating and not having enough hours to write NAPLEX b/c they couldn't get sufficient intern hrs. during school. Additionally, I have volunteered at several hospitals in the bay area and have seen very few UCSF white coats, with the majority of the residents being from UoP, Touro & USC with a handful of Western folks and one guy from Creighton.

Unlike UG, or even law, pharmacy rank just doesn't mean diddly. It's all about alumni network. Where do the grads work? Those hospitals will show a distinct prejudice toward their alumni. I can't really talk about medicine b/c I have no idea what their rank structure really means (i.e., is it like law, or like pharmacy?)


YMMV but relying on brand-name schools / rank in pharmacy is dangerous.
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Just curious, would you think that the alumni network is worth the price difference between UCSF and USC?
 
Pharmacy outlook not gloomy? HAHAHAHA I'm graduating from pharmacy school in May 2011, and I WISH I can say that.

Don't say that I didn't warn you. Take it as advice from people are who already IN the profession. When I first got into pharmacy in 2007, it was a promising career. The economy was boomming. Pharmacists were getting sign-on bonuses and getting hired left and right. We didn't see oversaturation in the pharmacy profession. No one warned us about it because no one saw it coming. The economy didn't take a downturn until 2009. By then, it's too late to get out of pharmacy school and change careers because of our expensive loans.

If you keep asking, "Why did you apply to pharmacy school?" We didn't know back then that the profession was going to end up like this. We didn't see the storm coming. We can't predict the future. Can you predict the weather? If you still don't agree with us, then I ask you this, "Well, why can't YOU win the lottery?"

If you're thinking about going into pharmacy school right now, you seriously need to have second thoughts because there are warning signs everywhere. My classmates are upset and frustrated with pharmacy because they can't even find jobs right now!

My word of advice for all you pre-pharms:
Take your head out of the clouds and stop daydreaming. Pharmacy schools just want your money and could care less if you can't find a job or even pay off loans. If you get into pharmacy school now, good luck ever finding a job by the time you graduate four years from now!
 
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rxstudent13 said:
Pharmacy outlook not gloomy? HAHAHAHA I'm graduating from pharmacy school in May 2011, and I WISH I can say that.

Don't say that I didn't warn you. Take it as advice from people are who already IN the profession. When I first got into pharmacy in 2007, it was a promising career. The economy was boomming. Pharmacists were getting sign-on bonuses and getting hired left and right. We didn't see oversaturation in the pharmacy profession. No one warned us about it because no one saw it coming. The economy didn't take a downturn until 2009. By then, it's too late to get out of pharmacy school and change careers because of our expensive loans.

If you keep asking, "Why did you apply to pharmacy school?" We didn't know back then that the profession was going to end up like this. We didn't see the storm coming. We can't predict the future. Can you predict the weather? If you still don't agree with us, then I ask you this, "Well, why can't YOU win the lottery?"

If you're thinking about going into pharmacy school right now, you seriously need to have second thoughts because there are warning signs everywhere. My classmates are upset and frustrated with pharmacy because they can't even find jobs right now!

My word of advice for all you pre-pharms:
Take your head out of the clouds and stop daydreaming. Pharmacy schools just want your money and could care less if you can't find a job or even pay off loans. If you get into pharmacy school now, good luck ever finding a job by the time you graduate four years from now!
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I did WIN the lottery! I got accepted to pharmacy school! :D
 
rxstudent13 said:
Pharmacy outlook not gloomy? HAHAHAHA I'm graduating from pharmacy school in May 2011, and I WISH I can say that.

Don't say that I didn't warn you. Take it as advice from people are who already IN the profession. When I first got into pharmacy in 2007, it was a promising career. The economy was boomming. Pharmacists were getting sign-on bonuses and getting hired left and right. We didn't see oversaturation in the pharmacy profession. No one warned us about it because no one saw it coming. The economy didn't take a downturn until 2009. By then, it's too late to get out of pharmacy school and change careers because of our expensive loans.

If you keep asking, "Why did you apply to pharmacy school?" We didn't know back then that the profession was going to end up like this. We didn't see the storm coming. We can't predict the future. Can you predict the weather? If you still don't agree with us, then I ask you this, "Well, why can't YOU win the lottery?"

If you're thinking about going into pharmacy school right now, you seriously need to have second thoughts because there are warning signs everywhere. My classmates are upset and frustrated with pharmacy because they can't even find jobs right now!

My word of advice for all you pre-pharms:
Take your head out of the clouds and stop daydreaming. Pharmacy schools just want your money and could care less if you can't find a job or even pay off loans. If you get into pharmacy school now, good luck ever finding a job by the time you graduate four years from now!
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Gosh, I guess I should drop out since I'm only in my first year.

Do you have a suggestion for a career that I can get into now that'll have better job prospects in ~ 3 years? The long and short of it is: NO. Not PA, not RN, not anything. Pharmacy is every bit as promising of a career as it was when I started looking into it a couple of years ago. I have no regrets about matriculating at UoP and my classmates are generally quite happy, despite the insane stress of a 3 year program. Folks are getting plenty of intern hours & for the P3s there's no huge grey cloud floating above their heads. Lots of entry-level RPh jobs are available in the San Joaquin Valley & elsewhere... which goes back to the whole point of network, network, network... because it's not what you do or how you do it, but who you know, that'll make or break your career.

I can't honestly sit here and think of one profession that I could drop out and go pursue that would offer me nearly the compensation & benefits a job as a pharmacist will, nor something that I love as much. Yeah, I adore making sacher torte and checkered cakes but sadly there's just no security in the pastry chef world. I might get a job or I might find myself working for 5 years at Dairy Queen before landing a line-cook job at Denny's.

One thing's for certain: I love the job, and the work. I'm smart enough to invest wisely and not live extravagantly so even if my $55/hr stays $55/hr for many more years than other folks getting raises (like who...?) that'll be fine for me. I guess everyone here wants a Maserati and to live a models & bottles lifestyle or something, but even living in the heart of the bay area I can find homes that are totally affordable on $100,000/yr salary (not to mention a 2nd income from an SO, if applicable).

This is an investment. OK, it takes 10 years to pay it off - Most houses take 30. Doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad choice.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Gosh, I guess I should drop out since I'm only in my first year.

Do you have a suggestion for a career that I can get into now that'll have better job prospects in ~ 3 years? The long and short of it is: NO. Not PA, not RN, not anything. Pharmacy is every bit as promising of a career as it was when I started looking into it a couple of years ago. I have no regrets about matriculating at UoP and my classmates are generally quite happy, despite the insane stress of a 3 year program. Folks are getting plenty of intern hours & for the P3s there's no huge grey cloud floating above their heads. Lots of entry-level RPh jobs are available in the San Joaquin Valley & elsewhere... which goes back to the whole point of network, network, network... because it's not what you do or how you do it, but who you know, that'll make or break your career.

I can't honestly sit here and think of one profession that I could drop out and go pursue that would offer me nearly the compensation & benefits a job as a pharmacist will, nor something that I love as much. Yeah, I adore making sacher torte and checkered cakes but sadly there's just no security in the pastry chef world. I might get a job or I might find myself working for 5 years at Dairy Queen before landing a line-cook job at Denny's.

One thing's for certain: I love the job, and the work. I'm smart enough to invest wisely and not live extravagantly so even if my $55/hr stays $55/hr for many more years than other folks getting raises (like who...?) that'll be fine for me. I guess everyone here wants a Maserati and to live a models & bottles lifestyle or something, but even living in the heart of the bay area I can find homes that are totally affordable on $100,000/yr salary (not to mention a 2nd income from an SO, if applicable).

This is an investment. OK, it takes 10 years to pay it off - Most houses take 30. Doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad choice.
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I used to think like you when I was a P1, not anymore.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Gosh, I guess I should drop out since I'm only in my first year.

Do you have a suggestion for a career that I can get into now that'll have better job prospects in ~ 3 years? The long and short of it is: NO. Not PA, not RN, not anything. Pharmacy is every bit as promising of a career as it was when I started looking into it a couple of years ago. I have no regrets about matriculating at UoP and my classmates are generally quite happy, despite the insane stress of a 3 year program. Folks are getting plenty of intern hours & for the P3s there's no huge grey cloud floating above their heads. Lots of entry-level RPh jobs are available in the San Joaquin Valley & elsewhere... which goes back to the whole point of network, network, network... because it's not what you do or how you do it, but who you know, that'll make or break your career.
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"There are still lots of jobs available in [fill-in-the-blank location]." Sure, that's what they all say. That's what they first said to me when I first entered pharmacy school. Then guess what happened? Southern California and Northern California became completely saturated in just a couple of years. All the new California pharmacy grads this year are going to flock to Central Cal because they couldn't find jobs in SoCal or NorCal. Within a couple of years, Central Cal will be saturated just like that. Mark my word.

It doesn't help that Fresno wants to open up a new pharmacy school pretty soon. By the time they graduate their first class, how far can networking get you when no one is hiring? If you don't believe me, then take a look with what happened to law school and nursing school right now. There are new nursing grads who graduated over a year ago who still couldn't land a job.
 
rxstudent13 said:
"There are still lots of jobs available in [fill-in-the-blank location]." Sure, that's what they all say. That's what they first said to me when I first entered pharmacy school. Then guess what happened? Southern California and Northern California became completely saturated in just a couple of years. All the new California pharmacy grads this year are going to flock to Central Cal because they couldn't find jobs in SoCal or NorCal. Within a couple of years, Central Cal will be saturated just like that. Mark my word.

It doesn't help that Fresno wants to open up a new pharmacy school pretty soon. By the time they graduate their first class, how far can networking get you when no one is hiring? If you don't believe me, then take a look with what happened to law school and nursing school right now. There are new nursing grads who graduated over a year ago who still couldn't land a job.
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Puh-lease, Northern California's fine... I don't know anything about Southern California though so I'll cede that point.

Rabble, rabble, rabble. People complain just for the sake of complaining.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Puh-lease, Northern California's fine... I don't know anything about Southern California though so I'll cede that point.

Rabble, rabble, rabble. People complain just for the sake of complaining.
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If you claim that NorCal is fine, then I will tell you that they are fine for now. Just give it just 2 years, and you'll experience the frustration of oversaturation that SoCal is going through with the pharmacy job market right now. Remember new schools keep opening up every year. Current schools are increasing their class sizes each year. Unlike your 3rd year classmates, you're going to face tough competition by the time you're done with school.
 
rxstudent13 said:
If you claim that NorCal is fine, then I will tell you that they are fine for now. Just give it just 2 years, and you'll experience the frustration of oversaturation that SoCal is going through with the pharmacy job market right now. Remember new schools keep opening up every year. Current schools are increasing their class sizes each year. Unlike your 3rd year classmates, you're going to face tough competition by the time you're done with school.
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Alright, even if I grant you your wish of being right about this, the bolded is just fine for the profession. Tough competition exists everywhere in this world, and without tough competition, we stagnate and lose our edge. I'm fine with that.

Also, can you cite your source for class size increases every year? You seem to be applying that unlitaterally and I know 100% for certain that it can't be true for every school. As a scientist, you should know that if someone can show one example of something not being the case, you can't claim it is the case.

And this "schools keep opening up every year" nonsense should cease. The last school opened in California was CNCP, and before that, Touro. Tu got its full accreditation a year (or longer) ago if memory serves, and this year should be CNCP's year. They're serving markets in need. For CNCP, there is no school in the area to serve the greater really Northern California (think Eureka, Amador, etc) - The closest is my school. And their students are doing fine, I meet with students from CNCP & Touro on a regular basis (every few wks) and the "DOOM AND GLOOM" just is not there. The only thing in Fresno right now is an APPE site for UCSF, and while the council board in Fresno approved the site for a new pharmacy school in Fresno, they still haven't even raised funds for it and are facing tough opposition to another school in California... and as far as I have heard, the school in the bay (Samuel Merrit, I think it was) is also not opening.

Get a grip.

To reiterate, the job market is tough for everyone. Alright, I get that. Folks aren't getting BMW 3-series automobiles for sign on bonuses anymore, I get that. You might have to move out of your comfort zone for a few years to get experience so you can move to somewhere you do want to live, I get that. But that's LIFE. You can't just complain about everything. You should either do something about it or let it go.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Alright, even if I grant you your wish of being right about this, the bolded is just fine for the profession. Tough competition exists everywhere in this world, and without tough competition, we stagnate and lose our edge. I'm fine with that.

Also, can you cite your source for class size increases every year? You seem to be applying that unlitaterally and I know 100% for certain that it can't be true for every school. As a scientist, you should know that if someone can show one example of something not being the case, you can't claim it is the case.

And this "schools keep opening up every year" nonsense should cease. The last school opened in California was CNCP, and before that, Touro. Tu got its full accreditation a year (or longer) ago if memory serves, and this year should be CNCP's year. They're serving markets in need. For CNCP, there is no school in the area to serve the greater really Northern California (think Eureka, Amador, etc) - The closest is my school. And their students are doing fine, I meet with students from CNCP & Touro on a regular basis (every few wks) and the "DOOM AND GLOOM" just is not there. The only thing in Fresno right now is an APPE site for UCSF, and while the council board in Fresno approved the site for a new pharmacy school in Fresno, they still haven't even raised funds for it and are facing tough opposition to another school in California... and as far as I have heard, the school in the bay (Samuel Merrit, I think it was) is also not opening.

Get a grip.

To reiterate, the job market is tough for everyone. Alright, I get that. Folks aren't getting BMW 3-series automobiles for sign on bonuses anymore, I get that. You might have to move out of your comfort zone for a few years to get experience so you can move to somewhere you do want to live, I get that. But that's LIFE. You can't just complain about everything. You should either do something about it or let it go.
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:lol:

Have you ever thought about doing standup? You crack me up.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Alright, even if I grant you your wish of being right about this, the bolded is just fine for the profession. Tough competition exists everywhere in this world, and without tough competition, we stagnate and lose our edge. I'm fine with that.

Also, can you cite your source for class size increases every year? You seem to be applying that unlitaterally and I know 100% for certain that it can't be true for every school. As a scientist, you should know that if someone can show one example of something not being the case, you can't claim it is the case.

And this "schools keep opening up every year" nonsense should cease. The last school opened in California was CNCP, and before that, Touro. Tu got its full accreditation a year (or longer) ago if memory serves, and this year should be CNCP's year. They're serving markets in need. For CNCP, there is no school in the area to serve the greater really Northern California (think Eureka, Amador, etc) - The closest is my school. And their students are doing fine, I meet with students from CNCP & Touro on a regular basis (every few wks) and the "DOOM AND GLOOM" just is not there. The only thing in Fresno right now is an APPE site for UCSF, and while the council board in Fresno approved the site for a new pharmacy school in Fresno, they still haven't even raised funds for it and are facing tough opposition to another school in California... and as far as I have heard, the school in the bay (Samuel Merrit, I think it was) is also not opening.

Get a grip.

To reiterate, the job market is tough for everyone. Alright, I get that. Folks aren't getting BMW 3-series automobiles for sign on bonuses anymore, I get that. You might have to move out of your comfort zone for a few years to get experience so you can move to somewhere you do want to live, I get that. But that's LIFE. You can't just complain about everything. You should either do something about it or let it go.
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:thumbup:

And you might have to live in the sticks for a while after school. But if you already live in the sticks, what have you got to lose?
 
Passion4Sci said:
And this "schools keep opening up every year" nonsense should cease. The last school opened in California was CNCP, and before that, Touro.
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huh?? really?


Schools in CA planning to open:
http://www.accp.com/careers/onlinePositionListings.aspx?mode=view&id=39318
http://www.auhs.edu/Homepage.php?postID=226&action=veiw
http://www.calbaptist.edu/faculty/

Also, USF is opening up a pharmacy school in southern Florida, one of the most saturated areas in the nation. It is just about to start its first pharmacy class.
 
Dave4468 said:
huh?? really?


Schools in CA planning to open:
http://www.accp.com/careers/onlinePositionListings.aspx?mode=view&id=39318
http://www.auhs.edu/Homepage.php?postID=226&action=veiw
http://www.calbaptist.edu/faculty/

Also, USF is opening up a pharmacy school in southern Florida, one of the most saturated areas in the nation. It is just about to start its first pharmacy class.
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Fresno is also planning to open up another pharmacy school in California too.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/03/22/2320871/ex-umc-site-okd-for-pharmacy-school.html
 
rxstudent13 said:
Fresno is also planning to open up another pharmacy school in California too.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/03/22/2320871/ex-umc-site-okd-for-pharmacy-school.html
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Yet they haven't even secured funding for it yet, and likely won't. They still need between what, 8 and 10 million bucks plus seeking accreditation isn't exactly a fast process. There are a billion ways each one of these possible schools will be torpedo'd, probably by investors who see the # of schools in CA already and wonder what the market will be like.

Good lord people, relax.

The sky is being held in place just fine.
 
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With the glut of pharmacists coming in from the 2011 class, it's a perfect to open up a pharmacy and give employees starting pay at $50,000. Hey, it's capitalism and it's better than not making anything to pay off those $150,000 student loans. Trust me, astute business men will recognize this opportunity and capitalize on it.

Yes, the job market in Southern California is saturated. I work as a pharmacist in Ventura County, and they aren't hiring here either. BTW, I graduated in 2009 and my loan balance was $113,000. Today I have it down to about $43,000. I am thankful I have employment at the moment, but as we all know that can change at any moment. I just can't believe some of you took out over 200 K to fund your education. Sounds like financial suicide to me.
 
blueclassring said:
With the glut of pharmacists coming in from the 2011 class, it's a perfect to open up a pharmacy and give employees starting pay at $50,000. Hey, it's capitalism and it's better than not making anything to pay off those $150,000 student loans. Trust me, astute business men will recognize this opportunity and capitalize on it.

Yes, the job market in Southern California is saturated. I work as a pharmacist in Ventura County, and they aren't hiring here either. BTW, I graduated in 2009 and my loan balance was $113,000. Today I have it down to about $43,000. I am thankful I have employment at the moment, but as we all know that can change at any moment. I just can't believe some of you took out over 200 K to fund your education. Sounds like financial suicide to me.
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How do you expect them to pay off their loans in enough time if they get paid 50k? What about ones with families? What if they have kids?
 
crazybob said:
How do you expect them to pay off their loans in enough time if they get paid 50k? What about ones with families? What if they have kids?
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Wouldn't happen anyway.

All those shrewd, astute businessmen know they can't compete with Wal*Mart and CVS and if they open an indy, they're going to be stuck paying market wage like everyone else.

This doom and gloom stuff is so old.
 
I've been a "doom and gloom" person for the past year, especially since my roommate wasn't getting any job offers. Well, in the past week he got 2 offers for full time and I think 1 more for part time. 1 full-time offer is actually relatively close to Philly, but he's going to the one with more money and is planning on moving to Texas. I guess there are now retail jobs since people canceled their offers after matching with residencies. They're definitely not $50k offers.

Think about it, 2 job offers before graduation. Most other professions start looking for jobs after graduation.

I am still "doom and gloom" about residencies though, since so many qualified people don't match. I guess I'll just have to not apply to super competitive programs next year and hope for the best.
 
bacillus1 said:
I've been a "doom and gloom" person for the past year, especially since my roommate wasn't getting any job offers. Well, in the past week he got 2 offers for full time and I think 1 more for part time. 1 full-time offer is actually relatively close to Philly, but he's going to the one with more money and is planning on moving to Texas. I guess there are now retail jobs since people canceled their offers after matching with residencies. They're definitely not $50k offers.

Think about it, 2 job offers before graduation. Most other professions start looking for jobs after graduation.

I am still "doom and gloom" about residencies though, since so many qualified people don't match. I guess I'll just have to not apply to super competitive programs next year and hope for the best.
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I have heard it said that it's a recession when your neighbor is unemployed and a depression when you are unemployed. I think that's the mentality of several posters on this forum - it doesn't matter to them if we are better off than other professions, or how many of their classmates have jobs, or what the actual employment numbers for pharmacists are, all they see is the bad and become convinced that's the norm or soon will be.

Cool post dude. :thumbup: Oh and good luck with matching. :luck:
 
bacillus1 said:
I've been a "doom and gloom" person for the past year, especially since my roommate wasn't getting any job offers. Well, in the past week he got 2 offers for full time and I think 1 more for part time. 1 full-time offer is actually relatively close to Philly, but he's going to the one with more money and is planning on moving to Texas. I guess there are now retail jobs since people canceled their offers after matching with residencies. They're definitely not $50k offers.

Think about it, 2 job offers before graduation. Most other professions start looking for jobs after graduation.

I am still "doom and gloom" about residencies though, since so many qualified people don't match. I guess I'll just have to not apply to super competitive programs next year and hope for the best.
Click to expand...

Why even apply to residencies? Why waste your time doing one when the job market will only get worse in the year you're doing a residency. Quite a few people do residencies and end up in retail anyways. The smart people in my class realized that a job > residency. The girl who is at the top of my class, rho-chi president, tons of extracuriculars who everyone thought for sure would do a residency is taking a job over a residency. Smart choice :thumbup:
 
Somatic said:
Why even apply to residencies? Why waste your time doing one when the job market will only get worse in the year you're doing a residency. Quite a few people do residencies and end up in retail anyways. The smart people in my class realized that a job > residency. The girl who is at the top of my class, rho-chi president, tons of extracuriculars who everyone thought for sure would do a residency is taking a job over a residency. Smart choice :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Clinical work isn't for everyone anyway.
 
Somatic said:
Why even apply to residencies? Why waste your time doing one when the job market will only get worse in the year you're doing a residency. Quite a few people do residencies and end up in retail anyways. The smart people in my class realized that a job > residency. The girl who is at the top of my class, rho-chi president, tons of extracuriculars who everyone thought for sure would do a residency is taking a job over a residency. Smart choice :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Can't you always go back and do a residency later, too, if you want to? It seems like money now >>> money later when you have loans to pay back...
 
Passion4Sci said:
Clinical work isn't for everyone anyway.
Click to expand...

There are not many "clinical" jobs out there anyways. And many clinical pharmacist's salaries are funded by pharmacy schools. So if pharmacy schools close in the future, the clinical pharmacists who have ties to schools that close will probably have their jobs cut.
 
pharmschooler said:
Can't you always go back and do a residency later, too, if you want to? It seems like money now >>> money later when you have loans to pay back...
Click to expand...

Residencies are a joke, especially since it does not guarantee you a job. Don't buy into the hype.
 
Somatic said:
There are not many "clinical" jobs out there anyways. And many clinical pharmacist's salaries are funded by pharmacy schools. So if pharmacy schools close in the future, the clinical pharmacists who have ties to schools that close will probably have their jobs cut.
Click to expand...

Soooooo with the expansion of pharmacy schools-->more clinical jobs? :D;)
 
owlegrad said:
Soooooo with the expansion of pharmacy schools-->more clinical jobs? :D;)
Click to expand...

Jesus, haven't you paid attention to a single word that Somatic has said??? Everything that happens = less pharmacist positions. Don't try using your fancy logic here, just remember that we're all doomed and you'll be fine.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
]Jesus, haven't you paid attention to a single word that Somatic has said??? Everything that happens = less pharmacist positions.[/B] Don't try using your fancy logic here, just remember that we're all doomed and you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

I actually did laugh out loud at this. I am still chuckling.
 
owlegrad said:
Soooooo with the expansion of pharmacy schools-->more clinical jobs? :D;)
Click to expand...

Maybe but you really have to bust your ass in 2 years of residency and compete against at least 10 other candidates to get a clinical job these days. And like I said, if pharmacy schools start to close, which will hopefully happen soon, those jobs will be gone.
 
It makes me wonder why doing a residency seems to be such a hot choice :shrug: Once again, schools are brainwashing naive students :rolleyes:
 
Somatic said:
It makes me wonder why doing a residency seems to be such a hot choice :shrug: Once again, schools are brainwashing naive students :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I can't speak for anyone else, but the very first pharmacist I ever volunteered for was a clinical pharmacist and he led me to that path. Working directly in clinics for hypertension & smoking cessation is so much better than anything staff / retail pharmacy has to offer. I've been a tech in both settings and while I'd definitely take a retail job if I had to, I'd prefer the AmCare setting.

I don't know about schools brainwashing anyone, at least not here at UoP. Maybe UCSF pushes residency but so far, I've yet to feel compelled in one way or another.
 
Somatic said:
Maybe but you really have to bust your ass in 2 years of residency and compete against at least 10 other candidates to get a clinical job these days. And like I said, if pharmacy schools start to close, which will hopefully happen soon, those jobs will be gone.
Click to expand...

Do you HONESTLY think that any of the new (or established) pharmacy schools will close? If you look at precedence, have ANY accredited schools closed recently? How many schools over the past 10 schools that have went through the accreditation process failed to meet their goals? I know of 1 off the top of my head and one school was forced to delay their opening, but that is 2 out of ... 30. I think that you're foolishly hoping for something that will not happen.

Furthermore,

It makes me wonder why doing a residency seems to be such a hot choice Once again, schools are brainwashing naive students
Click to expand...

I am intrigued by this concept since, in the residency thread, you stated something to the effect of I don't know why one would do a residency if they were not guaranteed a position afterwards. You seem to fail to understand the concept of residency. Residencies are to obtain TRAINING, not a JOB. Schools are not "brainwashing naive students"; Some "pharmacy students" are painfully naive when they make gross assumptions about situations that they aren't educated about.
 
Somatic said:
Why even apply to residencies? Why waste your time doing one when the job market will only get worse in the year you're doing a residency. Quite a few people do residencies and end up in retail anyways. The smart people in my class realized that a job > residency. The girl who is at the top of my class, rho-chi president, tons of extracuriculars who everyone thought for sure would do a residency is taking a job over a residency. Smart choice :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I have to agree. People who do residency have to defer their loans for one year. The interest accrues. By the time they start paying off their loans, they end up owing another $100,000 on top of what they took out AND how much they would have owed had they started working right away. That is because they are one year behind in their payments. Residency also does not guarantee a job. I did a hospital rotation that was interviewing for hospital pharmacists. One candidate was still looking for jobs six months after completing her residency. Sadly, the hospital didn't hire her.
 
chemguy79 said:
Do you HONESTLY think that any of the new (or established) pharmacy schools will close? If you look at precedence, have ANY accredited schools closed recently? How many schools over the past 10 schools that have went through the accreditation process failed to meet their goals? I know of 1 off the top of my head and one school was forced to delay their opening, but that is 2 out of ... 30. I think that you're foolishly hoping for something that will not happen.

Furthermore,

I am intrigued by this concept since, in the residency thread, you stated something to the effect of I don't know why one would do a residency if they were not guaranteed a position afterwards. You seem to fail to understand the concept of residency. Residencies are to obtain TRAINING, not a JOB. Schools are not "brainwashing naive students"; Some "pharmacy students" are painfully naive when they make gross assumptions about situations that they aren't educated about.
Click to expand...

You haven't been to pharmacy school so you don't know what Somatic is talking about. I can totally relate to Somatic's statement about "schools brainwashing students to go do a residency." My school is notorious for "brainwashing" my class to do a residency. They even put down retail pharmacists. My school is completely biased for residency. Each year they always hold a panel of residents to convince students to do a residency, otherwise students will be at a "dead end." I'm not kidding you. In all my four years of pharmacy, my school never once held a panel of "how to start your own independent pharmacy" or "how to be an effective community pharmacist." They never mentioned about how much further in debt you'll be if you choose to do a residency.
 
rxstudent13 said:
You haven't been to pharmacy school so you don't know what Somatic is talking about. I can totally relate to Somatic's statement about "schools brainwashing students to go do a residency." My school is notorious for "brainwashing" my class to do a residency. They even put down retail pharmacists. My school is completely biased for residency. Each year they always hold a panel of residents to convince students to do a residency, otherwise students will be at a "dead end." I'm not kidding you. In all my four years of pharmacy, my school never once held a panel of "how to start your own independent pharmacy" or "how to be an effective community pharmacist." They never mentioned about how much further in debt you'll be if you choose to do a residency.
Click to expand...


Funny, we just had a individual come in and talk to the class about opening/operating an independent pharmacy, I believe he owns a couple of pharmacies..and 2 weeks ago we had 3 clinical pharmacist give their own talk..i guess it's school specific.
 
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