People actually do this, right?

[HumbleMD]

So for some deluded reason I was hoping for a scholarship offer from somewhere, but reality is now settling in. As the financial aid packages and estimates trickle in, its looking like besides the already 15G in institutional, perkins, and subsidized loans, there will be another $30,000 that I'm coming up with a combintion of either magic or Grad plus loans (family contribution my foot). I just wanted to double check, though. People manage to do this almost 50K/year in debt thing, and then pay it back, right? I mean, am I missing something here? Did I do this wrong?

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[hayden]

no, you didn't

 

[lunaire]

So for some deluded reason I was hoping for a scholarship offer from somewhere, but reality is now settling in. As the financial aid packages and estimates trickle in, its looking like besides the already 15G in institutional, perkins, and subsidized loans, there will be another $30,000 that I'm coming up with a combintion of either magic or Grad plus loans (family contribution my foot). I just wanted to double check, though. People manage to do this almost 50K/year in debt thing, and then pay it back, right? I mean, am I missing something here? Did I do this wrong?

Check out the loan calculator: http://www.finaid.com/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
If you follow the 1/3 rule (pay debt, save, spend), you'll be able to pay the debt it in 10-15 years after practice.

Hope your fin aid comes through though, it really sucks owing so much money.

 

[Eric Lindros]

Check out the loan calculator: http://www.finaid.com/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
If you follow the 1/3 rule (pay debt, save, spend), you'll be able to pay the debt it in 10-15 years after practice.

Hope your fin aid comes through though, it really sucks owing so much money.

Well, looks like I am screwed according to this thing. In order to comfortably pay my loans off in ten years, I'm going to need to make at least $330,000.

 

[lilnoelle]

So for some deluded reason I was hoping for a scholarship offer from somewhere, but reality is now settling in. As the financial aid packages and estimates trickle in, its looking like besides the already 15G in institutional, perkins, and subsidized loans, there will be another $30,000 that I'm coming up with a combintion of either magic or Grad plus loans (family contribution my foot). I just wanted to double check, though. People manage to do this almost 50K/year in debt thing, and then pay it back, right? I mean, am I missing something here? Did I do this wrong?

I'm taking out nearly 78K a year. Consider yourself blessed. I'd love to only be taking out 50K/year.
Your numbers seem a little wrong though. You should be able to get up to $38,500 in subsidized and unsubsidized Stafford loan. The subsidized will not be more than $8,500 and may be less depending on "family contributions." Even if you can't get the full $8.5K in subsidized, you should still be able to get the rest in unsubsidized.
This isn't exactly fantastic, but the 6.8% Stafford loan is still better than the 8.5% Federal plus loans.

 

[lunaire]

Well, looks like I am screwed according to this thing. In order to comfortably pay my loans off in ten years, I'm going to need to make at least $330,000.

key word: comfortably

 

[Eric Lindros]

So for some deluded reason I was hoping for a scholarship offer from somewhere, but reality is now settling in. As the financial aid packages and estimates trickle in, its looking like besides the already 15G in institutional, perkins, and subsidized loans, there will be another $30,000 that I'm coming up with a combintion of either magic or Grad plus loans (family contribution my foot). I just wanted to double check, though. People manage to do this almost 50K/year in debt thing, and then pay it back, right? I mean, am I missing something here? Did I do this wrong?

Humble, what is more important to you? Debt or quality of school? You seem to be very concerned with both (which is understandable).

You have plenty of options based on your mdapps and don't nearly have it as bad as some people. Most of us are in the same boat: no outside help besides loans. Obviously we would all like to go to the very best school and zero cost, but that's just not reality.

So what's more important to you. Cost or school?

 

[Eric Lindros]

key word: comfortably

Yeah, and if you don't go by that rule, they give you this nice little warning.

"Expect some financial difficulties"

O Really???

 

[tdd340]

I'm taking out nearly 78K a year. Consider yourself blessed. I'd love to only be taking out 50K/year.
Your numbers seem a little wrong though. You should be able to get up to $38,500 in subsidized and unsubsidized Stafford loan. The subsidized will not be more than $18,500 and may be less depending on "family contributions." Even if you can't get the full $18.5K in subsidized, you should still be able to get the rest in unsubsidized.
This isn't exactly fantastic, but the 6.8% Stafford loan is still better than the 8.5% Federal plus loans.

Your numbers are a little off there. The subsidized stafford maximum per year is $8,500 not 18,5000. So the rest of the $38,500 from stafford will be unsubsidized. So in most cases 30,000 unsub and 8,500 sub.

 

[MChitty]

Yeah, and if you don't go by that rule, they give you this nice little warning.

"Expect some financial difficulties"

O Really???

That's an understatement if I've ever heard one. Well...who needs to eat, right?

 

[HumbleMD]

Humble, what is more important to you? Debt or quality of school? You seem to be very concerned with both (which is understandable).

You have plenty of options based on your mdapps and don't nearly have it as bad as some people. Most of us are in the same boat: no outside help besides loans. Obviously we would all like to go to the very best school and zero cost, but that's just not reality.

So what's more important to you. Cost or school?

Unfortunately, the cheapest school is still at least 40-50 (UMich). Baylor can dip below that if I get a condo, but then I'd have to materialize a down payment from somewhere. Penn, WashU, and Duke are all 60K or more, o there's really not much difference in any of them right now. I'd love it if I could make the choice between a 20K school and a 60K - that would be a no-brainer for me...

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

Unfortunately, the cheapest school is still at least 40-50 (UMich). Baylor can dip below that if I get a condo, but then I'd have to materialize a down payment from somewhere. Penn, WashU, and Duke are all 60K or more, o there's really not much difference in any of them right now. I'd love it if I could make the choice between a 20K school and a 60K - that would be a no-brainer for me...

yeah, that's real unfortunate that you might end up at u mich for less than 50k per year.

 

[lilnoelle]

Your numbers are a little off there. The subsidized stafford maximum per year is $8,500 not 18,5000. So the rest of the $38,500 from stafford will be unsubsidized. So in most cases 30,000 unsub and 8,500 sub.

I'm sorry, your right. I got mixed up because undergrad allows a total of 18,500K in Stafford. Got the two confused.

I was trying to say that not all of his loans above the 15K he listed will be Federal plus loans. If he is borrowing 50K, only 11.5K of that should have to be Federal Plus.

 

[FujiApple]

Hmm... jbased on that calculator, going to a private (based on the budgets the schools post online) is only $400 more a month repayment than going to my state school. $2300 vs $2700 a month doesn't seem like a huge difference when the number is so big anyway. Hmm...

 

[Eric Lindros]

Unfortunately, the cheapest school is still at least 40-50 (UMich). Baylor can dip below that if I get a condo, but then I'd have to materialize a down payment from somewhere. Penn, WashU, and Duke are all 60K or more, o there's really not much difference in any of them right now. I'd love it if I could make the choice between a 20K school and a 60K - that would be a no-brainer for me...

I'm in the exact same boat. I'm looking at around 40-50K a year for my state school, and 60K for an out-of-state state school that is of better quality and reputation.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

Well, looks like I am screwed according to this thing. In order to comfortably pay my loans off in ten years, I'm going to need to make at least $330,000.

This is why the number of people entering primary care specialties is going

 

[foofish]

A-men.

But as a current doc at an alum event once said, keep in mind that while it's massive debt, it's educational loan debt...$150,000 in education loans has a very different impact on your life than, say, $150,000 of credit card debt. You'll still be able to own a car, and buy a house, etc. I'm not at all trying to downplay the seriousness of med school debt, but I found this perspective a little calming.

You might be living on PB&J and not living the life of Paris Hilton, but it'll be okay.

 

[babel]

I'll be right there with you all...... I figure that I will be in ~$180,000 - $200,000 in debt from my state school, or $220,000-$240,000 if I get into the private I'm waiting on. I haven't done my financial aid yet (waiting on the padres to get their info together), but I am expecting my EFC to be the full amount anyway (especially since I have worked for the last 3 years, making about ~$40,000/year).

I just try not to think about it......

 

[HumbleMD]

Alright, so there's been lots of discussion on the various loan amounts, etc., I'll use my WashU financial aid package as an example of what's out there (as my ROUGH estimate of it was what started the discussion anyways).
Budgeted: (58,564)
Stafford Sub.: 8,500
Perkins (what's a Perkins, btw?): 5,000
WashU loan: 153 (wow, huge, thanks guys)
Scholarship: 8,654
Magic (AKA EFC): 36,257

So my question is, where the hell does this 36K come from? Stafford Unsub. (which I think is a max of 30k) and then Grad Plus? Or should I start thinking of how attached I am to my kidneys?

 

[tdd340]

Alright, so there's been lots of discussion on the various loan amounts, etc., I'll use my WashU financial aid package as an example of what's out there (as my ROUGH estimate of it was started the discussion anyways).
Budgeted: (58,564)
Stafford Sub.: 8,500
Perkins (what's a Perkins, btw?): 5,000
WashU loan: 153 (wow, huge, thanks guys)
Scholarship: 8,654
Magic (AKA EFC): 36,257

So my question is, where the hell does this 36K come from? Stafford Unsub. (which I think is a max of 30k) and then Grad Plus? Or should I start thinking of how attached I am to my kidneys?

OK this is odd, I didn't think Professional students were eligible for Perkins, also most aid packages tell you the amount of Stafford Unsub and Grad Plus.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

OK this is odd, I didn't think Professional students were eligible for Perkins, also most aid packages tell you the amount of Stafford Unsub and Grad Plus.

You can only borrow so much on the Perkins program I believe. So, if you qualified for it in undergrad (I didn't) you won't get it in med school (like I did, for 4k/year).

Good luck, HumbleMD. There's always bone marrow donation.

 

[Shadowboricua]

na

 

[Noeljan]

I was offered some in Perkins, and I am pretty sure I got it undergrad. It was only a small amount though.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

Do Stafford Sub loans accrue interest while a student is in medical school?
Let's say someone borrowed the maximum $8500 each year but magically paid it off at graudation...would there be any interest or would the total payback cost be $34000 (8500x4)?

If the same $34000 of Stafford Sub loans are not paid until after residency, does interest accrue now? What is the interest rate?

Sorry if these are dumb questions. I'm getting all mixed up.

Sub staffords are interest-free while in school -- paid by the gov't. At least, according to my Pritzker financial aid package. However, interest begins to accrue while you defer through residency.

Unsub staffords are where the massive pains of interest accumulation occur.

 

[Noeljan]

If you accept some loans now and decide not to take them, can you cancel them before distribution?

 

[psipsina]

Alright, so there's been lots of discussion on the various loan amounts, etc., I'll use my WashU financial aid package as an example of what's out there (as my ROUGH estimate of it was what started the discussion anyways).
Budgeted: (58,564)
Stafford Sub.: 8,500
Perkins (what's a Perkins, btw?): 5,000
WashU loan: 153 (wow, huge, thanks guys)
Scholarship: 8,654
Magic (AKA EFC): 36,257

So my question is, where the hell does this 36K come from? Stafford Unsub. (which I think is a max of 30k) and then Grad Plus? Or should I start thinking of how attached I am to my kidneys?

Your EFC will not keep you from getting Unsub Stafford or Grad Plus, it can just minimize your subsidized amount if high enuf, so you'll probably need about 6k from grad plus or other private loans per year to go to this school. This is pretty common, be thankful for the 8k scholarship honestly. I looked at Tulane and would have had to take 24k/year in private/gradplus loans on top of a maxed stafford. I'm at a state school with a scholarship and it only brought my staffords down to 30k/year with no grad plus! This is a pretty expensive undertaking for most people as full rides aren't that common at most institutions.

 

[Surg Path]

This is why the number of people entering primary care specialties is going

There are now grants for going into primary care to specifically help pay off loans- at least for practice in underserved areas. Also, during post-residency, there are NIH grants for research that aren't too difficult to get if you have strong research skills. (but, who knows if the NIH will even exist in a few years that's another discussion....)

I'll be starting MD school in August, and will be in the same boat as most people- taking out more money each year than I'v ever made in one year. But, as messed up as this is, it is the norm. I'm a researcher at a large cancer center now and work closely with many hem/onc fellows. They are all highly trainsed and at one of the best cancer centers in the world, and they are all in huge debt and live pretty simple lives. It's par for the course.

My plan is to live frugally, work hard, take out the money I need, and not worry about it. I'm comfortable knowing I'll be financialy very tight until I'm 40, and my new car at 45 will be a Honda (although maybe I'll splurge and get a hybrid).

 

[Law2Doc]

This is why the number of people entering primary care specialties is going

There are a finite number of funded residencies and they generally get filled. So I suspect the number stays about the same. The only difference perhaps is what percentage of those spots are filled by US allo versus elsewhere. If anything, with the recent increase in enrollment at many allo schools, and new schools popping up each year, expect the number of people entering primary care to have to increase.

 

[p9142]

WashU loan: 153 (wow, huge, thanks guys)

Wow, that is almost insulting. I thought WashU was the mac daddy of financial aid.

 

[HumbleMD]

Wow, that is almost insulting. I thought WashU was the mac daddy of financial aid.

Me too. But alas, not for me. The $153 LOAN just seems a little silly.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

Me too. But alas, not for me. The $153 LOAN just seems a little silly.

Yeesh, is there any chance that they left off a zero at the end of that, or something? 'Cause yeah... that's just mean.

 

[FujiApple]

I just wanted to vent. I got my first financial aid package. Emory's budget is about $60K per year. ALL I got was the staffords ; $38500 per year. How am I supposed to do this? I don't have $20K lying around each year! My parents certainly don't have $80K.. my EFC was only 4K!

I guess that will make my decision easier, though it won't be any less painful.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Check out the loan calculator: http://www.finaid.com/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
If you follow the 1/3 rule (pay debt, save, spend), you'll be able to pay the debt it in 10-15 years after practice.

Hope your fin aid comes through though, it really sucks owing so much money.

So when I am 58 I'll be able to start saving for retirement?

 

[diosa428]

I just wanted to vent. I got my first financial aid package. Emory's budget is about $60K per year. ALL I got was the staffords ; $38500 per year. How am I supposed to do this? I don't have $20K lying around each year! My parents certainly don't have $80K.. my EFC was only 4K!

I guess that will make my decision easier, though it won't be any less painful.

You'd be expected to take the rest out in gradplus loans, or other private loans. The school's fin aid office probably has the details.

 

[Eric Lindros]

I just wanted to vent. I got my first financial aid package. Emory's budget is about $60K per year. ALL I got was the staffords ; $38500 per year. How am I supposed to do this? I don't have $20K lying around each year! My parents certainly don't have $80K.. my EFC was only 4K!

I guess that will make my decision easier, though it won't be any less painful.

Its a little thing called the Grad PLUS loan. Many of us will end up using it.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

This financial aid stuff is really starting to sink in and it's hitting me hard. I really thought that the hard part was going to be getting into my top choice school, not affording it.

The average debt at Duke is 75K, but I'd be leaving with 290K. I just don't think I can justify that when UNC would 'only' leave me 156K in debt. I know I'm lucky to have great choices, but this still sucks.

 

[riceman04]

Unfortunately, the cheapest school is still at least 40-50 (UMich). Baylor can dip below that if I get a condo, but then I'd have to materialize a down payment from somewhere. Penn, WashU, and Duke are all 60K or more, o there's really not much difference in any of them right now. I'd love it if I could make the choice between a 20K school and a 60K - that would be a no-brainer for me...

You would have more financial operating room if you went to Baylor b/c:
1. tuition is much cheaper
2. you can use at least part of a loan (I know you can do this with all loans) for your down payment...then rent out the extra bedrooms in your condo. You can use that $ to help pay for the house note and any other fees that come with the property and still have a little $ left over AANNNNNNNNNDDDDD the property value will increase significantly in Houston over the next 4 yrs (Houston is growing very rapidly)...then you could sell it and make a profit off the property.

 

[diosa428]

This financial aid stuff is really starting to sink in and it's hitting me hard. I really thought that the hard part was going to be getting into my top choice school, not affording it.

The average debt at Duke is 75K, but I'd be leaving with 290K. I just don't think I can justify that when UNC would 'only' leave me 156K in debt. I know I'm lucky to have great choices, but this still sucks.

How is Duke costing you $290k? If you add up the cost for 4 years, it only comes to $250k. Still a lot more than UNC, but $40k is a big difference.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

How is Duke costing you $290k? If you add up the cost for 4 years, it only comes to $250k. Still a lot more than UNC, but $40k is a big difference.

Interest will be accruing on my unsub staffords and Grad PLUS loans. The 156K figure for UNC includes this interest as well.

 

[Dookter]

Interest will be accruing on my unsub staffords and Grad PLUS loans. The 156K figure for UNC includes this interest as well.

I'd go to UNC. And I'm not joking. I would have killed to have had a state school as good as UNC!

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

I'd go to UNC. And I'm not joking. I would have killed to have had a state school as good as UNC!

I'm really wrestling with this. I love Duke, but I doubt it's worth almost double the cost of UNC. UNC is a great school at a good price; I'm just kind of depressed that I got this far but I might have to turn Duke down for financial reasons.

 

[diosa428]

Interest will be accruing on my unsub staffords and Grad PLUS loans. The 156K figure for UNC includes this interest as well.

OMG let's not talk about interest... I don't want to think about it

 

[moomix906]

I'm really wrestling with this. I love Duke, but I doubt it's worth almost double the cost of UNC. UNC is a great school at a good price; I'm just kind of depressed that I got this far but I might have to turn Duke down for financial reasons.

on the plus side, you can reject Duke, go to UNC, then match in Duke...and this time they're paying you!!! (while also working you to death but whatever) sounds like a better deal to me

 

[dutchman]

Check out the loan calculator: http://www.finaid.com/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
If you follow the 1/3 rule (pay debt, save, spend), you'll be able to pay the debt it in 10-15 years after practice.

Hope your fin aid comes through though, it really sucks owing so much money.

This is why I wonder why some premeds jump on this forum and claim 100K is a lot of money to get payed as a physician with 200k debt. When you start crunching the numbers, you will see exactly what some of us are talking about.

 

[Guile]

Unfortunately, the cheapest school is still at least 40-50 (UMich). Baylor can dip below that if I get a condo, but then I'd have to materialize a down payment from somewhere. Penn, WashU, and Duke are all 60K or more, o there's really not much difference in any of them right now. I'd love it if I could make the choice between a 20K school and a 60K - that would be a no-brainer for me...

Great thread to start, Humble.

Bear in mind that lenders are more than happy to loan money to future MDs, so don't let the down payment hold you back. You can get two loans--one for the down payment and one for the condo. There are some pretty cheap options around TMC, too. And if you can get your parents to co-sign, then it will bring your interest rate way down, too.

 

[dutchman]

Great thread to start, Humble.

Bear in mind that lenders are more than happy to loan money to future MDs, so don't let the down payment hold you back. You can get two loans--one for the down payment and one for the condo. There are some pretty cheap options around TMC, too. And if you can get your parents to co-sign, then it will bring your interest rate way down, too.

Listen to that "get your parents to co-sign" . Do you know some people don't even have parents, or have poor parents with bad credit?

 

[Guile]

Listen to that "get your parents to co-sign" . Do you know some people don't even have parents, or have poor parents with bad credit?

Hmmm, well then clearly that advice wouldn't apply to them, now would it? Sheesh.

 

[pennybridge]

if you want to do anything BUT primary care, take out all the loans in the world.

seriously. go to the best school you get in to, the one that will help you get the best residency, and get recruited by the best practice.

then marry pamela anderson and buy a zoo and have weird jungle sex parties like EVERY DAY.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

if you want to do anything BUT primary care, take out all the loans in the world.

seriously. go to the best school you get in to, the one that will help you get the best residency, and get recruited by the best practice.

then marry pamela anderson and buy a zoo and have weird jungle sex parties like EVERY DAY.

^this is utterly silly and ridiculous. pamela anderson will be, like, sixty when i start to practice. no thank you. does this scenario work with other attractive women?

 

[Towelie]

Listen to that "get your parents to co-sign" . Do you know some people don't even have parents, or have poor parents with bad credit?

I would love to meet these people that don't have any parents. That would be a biological breakthrough.