Army Payback Location following Residency?

[Special Delivery]

With the full understanding that ultimately, Army does what Army wants...

During the last year of residency, when do you typically find out where they're sending you?

Do you get an opportunity to rank any preferences? Does anyone ever get what they want?

Does cost of relocation factor into the decision (would they intentionally move someone from west to east and east to west if both preferred to stay put)?

Are you told who makes this decision?

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[idq1i]

find out - right about now.
rank - yes; maybe they will consider it, maybe not. i got #12
location/cost - no, doesn't matter
who makes decision - consultant, technically. Really depends on what crack deal they made behind the scenes with lifers in the service already. There is no transparency in this process, so don't expect it

 

[colbgw02]

HRC has final authority, pending surgeon general approval. Consultants are just that, but have historically been extremely instrumental. There's talk that the consultant's role will be reduced, leaving more power in the hands of non-medical people.

Cost does matter, but has been relatively low on the priority list. I wouldn't be surprised to it become a greater factor in light of the fiscal climate.

 

[idq1i]

There's talk that the consultant's role will be reduced, leaving more power in the hands of non-medical people.

That's right. Make all the good physicians leave through creating intolerable policies, while letting all the a--clowns from MSC and AN with online degrees from the Online Southeast University of Western Podunks get even more power. Now that's army strong!

 

[pgg]

Can't speak to how the Army does things, but for the Navy, in my specialty, the specialty leader starts polling people around Nov-Dec, starting with those who are doing staff tours and due to rotate the following summer. Then, in Dec-Jan, usually after the GMESB results are out and everyone knows who's going to fellowship and who's not, graduating residents get the list and are asked for preferences. (Presumably this is a reduced list after the attendings mostly got their picks.) Orders for everyone usually show up Feb-Mar range.

As a graduating resident, I got what I asked for. As an attending due to move in a few months, I got what I asked for. They do make an effort to accomodate requests. YMMV.

 

[HighPriest]

I got my first choice. Got my RFO, then a week later they changed my duty station to my second to last choice because someone with two stars on his chest felt like they simply had to have another provider at my new duty station. Now because of "modernization," they've decided they don't need another guy here so my partner is out and no one will replace him. In 12 months, there's a 50/50 chance they won't need me here either because of further "modernization."

Tastes like irony, but smells like typical Army short-sightedness.

Other than that, things work pretty much exactly how idq1i said.

 

[HighPriest]

Take home: they will accommodate you as long as it is no skin off the Army's back. But frankly, I get that.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Does your consultant know you exist? If you've never interacted he/she may not. Step 1 would be to call any Army hospital and get transferred to the dept office for your specialty. Leave a message for the dept head and get called or emailed back. He will know how to reach the consultant. Best bet is San Antonio or Bethesda. If you are the last kid getting detailed, I hope you like Korean food.


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[Special Delivery]

Thanks for the information, everyone! Is there any easy way to find out which duty-posts staff specific specialties (OBGYN) or is that also something to take up with the consultant?

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

Thanks for the information, everyone! Is there any easy way to find out which duty-posts staff specific specialties (OBGYN) or is that also something to take up with the consultant?

Consultant.

 

[AbcJuly]

I'm not comissioned yet, hope to be in May, but the Consultant who takes care of all the psychiatrist (thre's only abuo 190 of them in the Army) did speak to me and said that psychiatrists get their top pick for their first duty station. Therafter they get more professional guidanced from him on duty station.

 

[HighPriest]

I'm not comissioned yet, hope to be in May, but the Consultant who takes care of all the psychiatrist (thre's only abuo 190 of them in the Army) did speak to me and said that psychiatrists get their top pick for their first duty station. Therafter they get more professional guidanced from him on duty station.

There are fewer of us...usually we get a pick that is relatively high on our list....sometimes the list means nothing. There's never an always.

 

[jabreal00]

I'm not comissioned yet, hope to be in May, but the Consultant who takes care of all the psychiatrist (thre's only abuo 190 of them in the Army) did speak to me and said that psychiatrists get their top pick for their first duty station. Therafter they get more professional guidanced from him on duty station.

I am not a psychiatrist but I remember I was told by my program director to give my top 4 or 5 picks. My specialty consultant also gave me a slightly different list to rank. In the end I ended up somewhere that was not on either list and is perennially one of the least desirable locations in the Army. When I asked my consultant what gives, he basically told me to deal with it because I could have gotten THE LEAST desirable place in the Army.

So the gist of my story is to take whatever your specialty leader says with a grain of salt. Like I've been told multiple times through my 9 years of active duty, the "needs of the Army" supersedes any desire of the individual.

 

[idq1i]

I am not a psychiatrist but I remember I was told by my program director to give my top 4 or 5 picks. My specialty consultant also gave me a slightly different list to rank. In the end I ended up somewhere that was not on either list and is perennially one of the least desirable locations in the Army. When I asked my consultant what gives, he basically told me to deal with it because I could have gotten THE LEAST desirable place in the Army.

So the gist of my story is to take whatever your specialty leader says with a grain of salt. Like I've been told multiple times through my 9 years of active duty, the "needs of the Army" supersedes any desire of the individual.

I got #13, and we are probably in the same specialty. Got needs of the army speech too. t-785

 

[Chonal Atresia]

I am not a psychiatrist but I remember I was told by my program director to give my top 4 or 5 picks. My specialty consultant also gave me a slightly different list to rank. In the end I ended up somewhere that was not on either list and is perennially one of the least desirable locations in the Army. When I asked my consultant what gives, he basically told me to deal with it because I could have gotten THE LEAST desirable place in the Army.

So the gist of my story is to take whatever your specialty leader says with a grain of salt. Like I've been told multiple times through my 9 years of active duty, the "needs of the Army" supersedes any desire of the individual.[/QUOTE

Believe me, it will be nice when you can tell your consultant to "deal with it" when you resign your commission and the army has to scramble to fill the hole that you leave. My former consultant tried to stick me in a brigade surgeon slot 3 years ago. Without getting into specifics, I avoided this only with a combination of luck and knowing people in high places (nobody in my specialty had to go in my place, BTW). He actually asked me if I would consider signing on for more time last year. I responded by asking him if he was serious after what he tried to do to my career. Typical sell-out "monkeys on a flagpole" 06 - pathetic. Good luck to you and leave as soon as you can. The ship is going down.

T-28 days!

 

[Apollyon]

...one of the least[/B] desirable locations in the Army. When I asked my consultant what gives, he basically told me to deal with it because I could have gotten THE LEAST desirable place in the Army.

A lot of the places are like that - what would be the ultimate least desirable place? Korea? Adak? Fort Lost in the Woods? I'm not Army, so I don't know.

It's kind of like "she's 300lbs, but there's someone bigger".

 

[HighPriest]

Yeah, I get the "it could be worse" speech all the time. That doesn't, however, make "it" better.

 

[Perrotfish]

Out of curiosity, what do people here think about making deals with the specialty leader? I know ours has a perennial offer to give a choice duty station to whoever is willing to cover either Guantanamo or Korea for a year, which are both kind of appealing to me for specific personal reasons. In your experience, are those kind of offers worth taking or does the reward generally fall through?

 

[Homunculus]

if that person is there the following year, they tend to be true to their word-- at least as much as they can be. the billets they have to fill (both operational and non) change as well. i would trust them to the extent they have control over it-- meaning if they are gone all bets are off and that they can never really be 100% sure of anything any more than we can.

there's definitely something to be said for volunteering -- not only do you get a little better pick, but taking some of the pressure off the consultants i imagine helps with some positive association with your name in the future.

--your friendly neighborhood everyone keep volunteering and we'll all be fine caveman

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

what do people here think about making deals with the specialty leader?

Agree they probably keep their word but you had better make sure they will still be in the job when you leave Cuba. Sometimes things like joint spouse get in the way and your desired spot goes away.

 

[jabreal00]

A lot of the places are like that - what would be the ultimate least desirable place? Korea? Adak? Fort Lost in the Woods? I'm not Army, so I don't know.

It's kind of like "she's 300lbs, but there's someone bigger".

Ft Polk, Ft Sill, Ft Leonard Wood are three of the least desirable CONUS assignments. There are other bad locations but it's hard to beat the terrible location and dysfunction of the MTF of the three I mentioned. I am sure there are plenty of awful OCONUS assignments but these are often billed as hardship tours in the Army so there is no pretense.

 

[Apollyon]

Ft Polk, Ft Sill, Ft Leonard Wood are three of the least desirable CONUS assignments. There are other bad locations but it's hard to beat the terrible location and dysfunction of the MTF of the three I mentioned. I am sure there are plenty of awful OCONUS assignments but these are often billed as hardship tours in the Army so there is no pretense.

I read ya. Yeah, at least the hardship tours tell you up front that they suck.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

if that person is there the following year, they tend to be true to their word-- at least as much as they can be. the billets they have to fill (both operational and non) change as well. i would trust them to the extent they have control over it-- meaning if they are gone all bets are off and that they can never really be 100% sure of anything any more than we can.

there's definitely something to be said for volunteering -- not only do you get a little better pick, but taking some of the pressure off the consultants i imagine helps with some positive association with your name in the future.

--your friendly neighborhood everyone keep volunteering and we'll all be fine caveman

I would never volunteer for anything in the military, especially for the reason of taking pressure off the consultants. You have to look out for #1 because nobody else in this organization is going to, especially consultants that have to fill sh..ty billets. They are monkeys on a flagpole smiling at the a..holes above them and blindly following their requests.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Depends on how bad the billet is. You're likely to get one almost as bad right out of training so it's not such a big deal to volunteer. Maybe you get credit, maybe not.


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[HighPriest]

Seems to depend strongly upon the consultant. There are definitely guys who won't look out for you. There are definitely guys who will piss on you and tell you it's raining. I almost prefer the guy who admits you're a low priority bat least you know where they stand.

 

[AbcJuly]

Personally, I'm not in it for duty station more for research work. I think that the Army's needs for psychiatry are vast and that there is a lot of room for places to go. I only worry about fellowship.

 

[pgg]

Out of curiosity, what do people here think about making deals with the specialty leader?

Well, the alternative is no deal, no communication and you get what you get.

Horror stories and general forum atmosphere aside, the SLs and detailers are people, and most people are decent human beings who act in good faith. If you make a "deal" then you should stay in contact, and if the position turns over, be proactive about contacting the new person. Give them a reason to want to put you where you want to go that's more than "I like sunny weather and San Diego sounds nice." It probably helps if you have a good reputation (make of that what you will) and are yourself someone that others want to work with. When a Need at a weather station above the Arctic Circle rears its ugly head, it's going to be easier to exile a jerk or an unknown.

Just because you're in the military doesn't mean you're immune from the great game of networking, interviewing, applying, and schmoozing for the job (or deployment, or collateral) you want.

More than two years ago I began discussing my next set of orders with my specialty leader and detailer. Both have turned over since then, but I got the orders I wanted and am PCS'ing in a couple months.