PAs/NPs attempting to "cancel culture" the AMA

[scoopdaboop]

There are a lot of people in general society who don't even know what medical school even is. lol. I've had some relatives say that their kids go to medical school only to figure out later that their kids are actually at PT, dental, Pharm, or nursing school. To them it's all the same. Their kid is a "doctor"

Well yeah, it's the kid saying they go to medical school.

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[cookiegrub]

It's doctors like those guys who actively destroy the profession by selfishly promoting midlevel practice rights while malignantly sabotaging trainees

Not gonna lie, I had one physician let the PA student do the procedures while when it came to my turn I was just made to pass stuff along. All that gowning up for an exciting day only to be treated second class. Yea I'm pretty sick of the extrenous training when students half my age are getting done and doing stuff at fellow level. I hope the AMA doesnt backtrack before it started because these issues are getting too out of hand. Our older gen is selling us off so they can retire rich and early. Meanwhile, I wouldn't be surprised in 10 years, loans of 1million are a casual thing. Jk but not really


I'm also going to bring up crna profession because while they clearly have a longer time to train compared to other nurses, many act like they are the doctor. It's very weird how a doctor supervises them but I've only seen the dr like 1 day out of the many at the OR. I dont want NPs andPAs to confuse themselves that just because DOs are now integrated into acgme match that they can do the same. This is where making things more clear and stopping the doctor hating doctor makes sense. While we argue over ridiculous old age concepts, these noobs are playing operation on real patients. No disrespect but I want my gen and the one coming before me end up better off than what our predecessors are leaving behind.

 

[slowthai]

Well yeah, it's the kid saying they go to medical school.

I guarantee you that this is not the case most of the time.

Case in point:

Before med school, one of my coworkers told me that their daughter was in school training to be a heart surgeon and that they go to __________ Community College.

It was all I could do not to explode with laughter. This was me on the inside:

Nothing wrong with community college, of course, but she was really training to be a surgical tech, not a "heart surgeon"

The point is that a tremendous amount of people are ignorant about what becoming a physician truly entails.

 

[RocuROMANium]

There are a lot of people in general society who don't even know what medical school even is. lol. I've had some relatives say that their kids go to medical school only to figure out later that their kids are actually at PT, dental, Pharm, or nursing school. To them it's all the same. Their kid is a "doctor"

I cannot keep count of how many times I have explained the process to becoming a physician to my family. Yet, they still have no idea where I’m at in that process ha. They’re not in the medical field though so it’s more understandable but I’m always taken aback when a nurse has no clue how long it takes to become a physician and how much clinical training it requires.

 

[sunshinefl]

I cannot keep count of how many times I have explained the process to becoming a physician to my family. Yet, they still have no idea where I’m at in that process ha. They’re not in the medical field though so it’s more understandable but I’m always taken aback when a nurse has no clue how long it takes to become a physician and how much clinical training it requires.

I keep having to re-explain it to my HUSBAND and he’s an RRT (respiratory therapist).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I keep having to re-explain it to my HUSBAND and he’s an RRT (respiratory therapist).

My wife is a nurse. She pretty much gets it now, but I had to explain it to her as well. Most people have no idea, including people in healthcare.

 

[dr_kateb]

This reply tho. “Provider focused care” lmao. It’s hilarious how they make up phrases to manipulate people.

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

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View attachment 322139
This reply tho. “Provider focused care” lmao. It’s hilarious how they make up phrases to manipulate people.

What the hell is provider focused care? Am I doing neurosurgery on myself? If so, then I need to publish that in the NEJM right away.

Autonomous Neurosurgical Intervention: A Single Patient Experience in Provider Focused Care.

 

[slowthai]

View attachment 322139
This reply tho. “Provider focused care” lmao. It’s hilarious how they make up phrases to manipulate people.

I stopped reading after the first sentence. Don't need my IQ to get any lower than it already is. These sock puppets suffer from a severe case of delusional disorder.

 

[cookiegrub]

View attachment 322139
This reply tho. “Provider focused care” lmao. It’s hilarious how they make up phrases to manipulate people.

I'm just saying as a DO, our holistic care went out the window I guess with these crazies. I hope some DO corrects them and says "but yall forgot I exist". Also what is this "pt centered care". Are doctors working in some sort of lab while the pa,np go to work with "real patients"?

AMA better do something cuz now they went and opened pandora's box and saw how big a hole been made since they last checked

 

[FalconSlice]

I legit read this as "StopScoreCreep" and was like "that's weird that AMA all of a sudden cares about how board scores are consistently increasing over time"

I then realized it said "StopScopeCreep" and was like "that's weird that AMA all of a sudden cares about physicians now about midlevel creep"

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

View attachment 322139
This reply tho. “Provider focused care” lmao. It’s hilarious how they make up phrases to manipulate people.

She is bonkers.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I stopped reading after the first sentence. Don't need my IQ to get any lower than it already is. These sock puppets suffer from a severe case of delusional disorder.

She said PPP is a legit hate group. Wtf. How tone deaf can you get?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I stopped reading after the first sentence. Don't need my IQ to get any lower than it already is. These sock puppets suffer from a severe case of delusional disorder.

I have 2 tweets, and they are both calling out the AAPA president for being a psycho.

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

The solution to midlevel encroachment: We should have an annual quiz bowl between nurses/PAs and physicians on live television. Let's see if they really do have the "brain of a doctor"

 

[scoopdaboop]

She is bonkers.

View attachment 322144

These people should be jailed. I will call the president and ask to have her sanity checked, go through medications she might be on, and legally question her right to take care of patients.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

These people should be jailed.

It really is some next level gaslighting.

 

[deleted765155]

She said PPP is a legit hate group. Wtf. How tone deaf can you get?

Well, I guess I paid dues to join a hate group earlier today

 

[Ho0v-man]

The solution to midlevel encroachment: We should have an annual quiz bowl between nurses/PAs and physicians on live television. Let's see if they really do have the "brain of a doctor"

Yeah but what if an NP writes some questions and instead of “cpr”the answer becomes “hug with respectful patient centered empathy?”

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It’s back up! Slightly different wording, but the message is the same.

 

[slowthai]

Yeah but what if an NP writes some questions and instead of “cpr”the answer becomes “hug with respectful patient centered empathy?”

Yeah, if it was actually about knowledge, then we wouldn't even be here. It's all about money and optics. Admins and these midlevel organizations need to get hit where it hurts, hard. Then we'll actually start to see change.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It is a terrible hashtag though. So hard to say. #medschoolmatters or #medicalschoolmatters would have been way better.

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

It’s back up! Slightly different wording, but the message is the same.

View attachment 322154

This is actually more savage than the first one.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is actually more savage than the first one.

Yeah. I’m surprised they went harder tbh. It seemed like they were walking it back.

 

[SLC]

I guarantee you that this is not the case most of the time.

Case in point:

Before med school, one of my coworkers told me that their daughter was in school training to be a heart surgeon and that they go to __________ Community College.

It was all I could do not to explode with laughter. This was me on the inside:

View attachment 322134

Nothing wrong with community college, of course, but she was really training to be a surgical tech, not a "heart surgeon"

The point is that a tremendous amount of people are ignorant about what becoming a physician truly entails.

I had a highschool friend who’s Facebook profile said he was studying radiology at the local community college. He was working on a certificate to be a rad-tech. Most people wouldn’t know the difference though, or care to learn.

Screw the AMA for backing down yet again. When are we going to stand up for ourselves?

 

[deleted765155]

Please consider this repost as an opportunity to actively support this message on social media platforms by retweeting, liking, commenting, and sharing. Let's show the AMA that we strongly support this stance and spread the word!

 

[Ho0v-man]

Please consider this repost as an opportunity to actively support this message on social media platforms by retweeting, liking, commenting, and sharing. Let's show the AMA that we strongly support this stance and spread the word!

Sadly, any medical student who shares this on FB could end up meeting with admin for a “professionalism” talk. Doubt it’s much better as a resident.

 

[scoopdaboop]

MDs + PA's need to get together to stomp on NPs. If you read some of the comments, PA's feel like they have no choice but to try to advocate for independent rights because NPs have shown shameful behavior to try to expand their scope. Call your senators to strip them of their RN + NP degrees.

 

[Lawpy]

Sadly, any medical student who shares this on FB could end up meeting with admin for a “professionalism” talk. Doubt it’s much better as a resident.

Pretty crappy for med school admin to discourage med students from talking about physician protection. Especially if midlevel/PA admins encourage midlevel students to promote aggressive lobbying and encroachment

 

[Cornfed101]

I just spent some time reading through the comments on Facebook and I want to throw up... and yell at people.

 

[FutureSurgical]

You know what I hate that hasn't been discussed ITT? When CRNAs use "Physician Anesthesiologist" and "Nurse Anesthesiologist." Same thing with "MDA." It's just "Anesthesiologist." It may be semantics, but CRNAs co-opting the title reserved for a physician are purposefully blurring the lines.

You're not a "nurse anesthesiologist," your a "nurse anesthetist." Once again, this may be semantics, but no one in my family would know the difference unless it was spelled out to them. And people who THINK they're getting care from a physician are actually getting care from a CRNA. CRNA's are capable people, but IMO, in a physician-led role.

 

[scoopdaboop]

I just spent some time reading through the comments on Facebook and I want to throw up... and yell at people.

Yeah... I've realized to not do that. Save yourself the cortisol spike.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

MDs + PA's need to get together to stomp on NPs. If you read some of the comments, PA's feel like they have no choice but to try to advocate for independent rights because NPs have shown shameful behavior to try to expand their scope. Call your senators to strip them of their RN + NP degrees.

PAs are not on our side. At least not their leadership. The president of the AAPA has been gaslighting the AMA over the post, has called PPP a hate group, etc. They are pushing for independent practice just as much as the AANP.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You know what I hate that hasn't been discussed ITT? When CRNAs use "Physician Anesthesiologist" and "Nurse Anesthesiologist." Same thing with "MDA." It's just "Anesthesiologist." It may be semantics, but CRNAs co-opting the title reserved for a physician are purposefully blurring the lines.

You're not a "nurse anesthesiologist," your a "nurse anesthetist." Once again, this may be semantics, but no one in my family would know the difference unless it was spelled out to them. And people who THINK they're getting care from a physician are actually getting care from a CRNA. CRNA's are capable people, but IMO, in a physician-led role.

Exactly. I worked in the OR for 8 years. They are fine on easy cases until something happens. Then they are mostly useless.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Pretty crappy for med school admin to discourage med students from talking about physician protection. Especially if midlevel/PA admins encourage midlevel students to promote aggressive lobbying and encroachment

Yeah but I think we can all imagine someone from our class running to admin for disrespecting collaborative care or whatever. And all admin sees is potential bad PR.

It’s not right or fair. But if it was there would be no reason for us to advocate for our profession in the first place.

 

[cookiegrub]

Pretty crappy for med school admin to discourage med students from talking about physician protection. Especially if midlevel/PA admins encourage midlevel students to promote aggressive lobbying and encroachment

lol not crappy at all. I'm sure that at the same time they tell medical students that you are now "student doctors...so start acting like it", they probably tell their PA and NP classes that they are going to "take care of real patients and acting as their sole care giver...implying that they could take shortcuts to becoming a doctor". I also find it ridiculous during morning meets, there's a sea of NPs and PAs wearing white coats that are just as long as the attending. At the end all it serves is an ego boost without having done the work to attain the medical degree. It also lends us medical students from getting bullied by the entire health network because for us "several years of schooling awaits" until we can even practice independently at the top of our license.

 

[scoopdaboop]

lol not crappy at all. I'm sure that at the same time they tell medical students that you are now "student doctors...so start acting like it", they probably tell their PA and NP classes that they are going to "take care of real patients and acting as their sole care giver...implying that they could take shortcuts to becoming a doctor". I love the support some sweet PAs and NPs give, but I always feel it ridiculous during morning meets, there's a sea of NPs and PAs wearing white coats that are just as long as the attending. At the end all it serves is an ego boost without having done the work to attain the degree. It also lends us medical students from getting bullied by the entire health network because for us "several years of schooling awaits" until we can even practice independently at the top of our license.

Every resident > PA/NP. Atleast in most peoples eyes.

 

[jambro]

The fact that they cut out NP, PA, CRNA, is a real shame. I think anybody reading this wouldn't even know what the heck they were talking about.

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

lol not crappy at all. I'm sure that at the same time they tell medical students that you are now "student doctors...so start acting like it", they probably tell their PA and NP classes that they are going to "take care of real patients and acting as their sole care giver...implying that they could take shortcuts to becoming a doctor". I also find it ridiculous during morning meets, there's a sea of NPs and PAs wearing white coats that are just as long as the attending. At the end all it serves is an ego boost without having done the work to attain the medical degree. It also lends us medical students from getting bullied by the entire health network because for us "several years of schooling awaits" until we can even practice independently at the top of our license.

Is it common to get bullied by midlevels during MS3 and MS4 years? Any chance I can befriend them and avoid the pain? Lol

 

[Chibucks15]

Is it common to get bullied by midlevels during MS3 and MS4 years? Any chance I can befriend them and avoid the pain? Lol

I have never even remotely close been “bullied”. It’s largely SDN nonsense, if it does happen it’s just cuz that NP is a turd not a generalization about the field.

I hate mid level creep as much as the next guy but it has literally not affected me at all

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I have never even remotely close been “bullied”. It’s largely SDN nonsense, if it does happen it’s just cuz that NP is a turd not a generalization about the field.

I hate mid level creep as much as the next guy but it has literally not affected me at all

I literally read multiple accounts of it on r/residency that were just posted today of midlevels disrespecting residents in front of patients with zero repercussions. Hope it doesn’t happen to you ever, but it definitely seems to happen.

****, when I was just an OR tech talking about going to med school, an NP told me I would never go to med school and in a decade I’d still be just an OR tech.

 

[RocuROMANium]

I literally read multiple accounts of it on r/residency that were just posted today of midlevels disrespecting residents in front of patients with zero repercussions. Hope it doesn’t happen to you ever, but it definitely seems to happen.

****, when I was just an OR tech talking about going to med school, an NP told me I would never go to med school and in a decade I’d still be just an OR tech.

Why did they say that? Did y'all have beef ha?

 

[Chibucks15]

I literally read multiple accounts of it on r/residency that were just posted today of midlevels disrespecting residents in front of patients with zero repercussions. Hope it doesn’t happen to you ever, but it definitely seems to happen.

****, when I was just an OR tech talking about going to med school, an NP told me I would never go to med school and in a decade I’d still be just an OR tech.

So those people are just ****ty people haha I don’t see it. Like just cuz people suck doesn’t mean it’s a hard and fast rule...

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

I literally read multiple accounts of it on r/residency that were just posted today of midlevels disrespecting residents in front of patients with zero repercussions. Hope it doesn’t happen to you ever, but it definitely seems to happen.

****, when I was just an OR tech talking about going to med school, an NP told me I would never go to med school and in a decade I’d still be just an OR tech.

I feel that a lot of it has to do with the culture of the institution. This kind of behavior definitely wouldn't fly (or at least to a significantly lesser degree) at places like Mayo and UCSF who are pretty adamant about maintaining a collaborative and non-hostile environment.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Is it common to get bullied by midlevels during MS3 and MS4 years? Any chance I can befriend them and avoid the pain? Lol

You’ll meet some with chips on their shoulders. But you’ll also meet some genuinely content in their roles who will teach you a lot. You show up to M3 knowing a lot about acute intermittent porphyria. That’s not gonna help you deliver a baby.

But if you pay attention, you’ll quickly notice some big deficits with some of them.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Good on the AMA having the spine to put that new tweet up. A battle between physician and nurse lobbying is far overdue

 

[Little Green Mensch]

Like Ho0v-man said, it's all about relevant experience. A PA who has worked in your field for 10+ years usually has a pretty good knowledge base, and will be able to teach you a decent amount of stuff.

That said, the ICUs in my hospital rely heavily on mid-levels because they are less transient than residents. They're pretty good at their jobs on average, but they also take procedures away from residents for sure. There are also mid-level trainees who are also competing for procedures.

As for M3s not having practical experience when they start, sure. But the things you learn in M1 and M2 are an important part of your armamentarium when taking care of complicated and sick patients. A strong background in physiology and how different systems in the body interact is, in my opinion, one of the key differences between mid-level and physician education. The other is residency.

So long as mid-levels have neither, they will not be similarly situated to physicians in independently taking care of patients.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So those people are just ****ty people haha I don’t see it. Like just cuz people suck doesn’t mean it’s a hard and fast rule...

Yeah I wasn’t it’s a hard and fast rule. Just saying it definitely happens.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Why did they say that? Did y'all have beef ha?

I didn’t think we did. We literally always got along great until I started talking about wanting to go to medical school.

 

[altblue]

Sadly, any medical student who shares this on FB could end up meeting with admin for a “professionalism” talk. Doubt it’s much better as a resident.

Not sure how helpful sharing this would be anyway

The public as a whole is a lot more sympathetic to nurses and midlevel providers because they don't make as much and aren't ever perceived as elitist. We joke about the gunner ***hole who becomes an ortho or a doc who primarily cares about money, but unfortunately, that minority of physicians does exist and hurts our image. Patients are aware of them, as they've dealt with them.

Makes it harder to communicate the broader issues with an increased scope of PA/NP care