Pain Medicine, Geography, and 2018 Tax Law Outcomes

[emd123]

you make a lot more than I do. if you were to fall in that top bracket, apparently you would be making in excess of $10,000,000...

where do you see 70%+ tax rates for sanders? from the 2016 presidential race, sander's top tax bracket is 54%, not 70%...

Bernie Sanders' Income Tax Brackets: How Much Would You Owe? -- The Motley Fool

54%? Sorry, but no thanks. Although I'm far from that highest bracket, I don't want to pay anywhere near 54% federal tax, plus state tax, plus property tax, plus gas tax, plus medicare tax, plus FICA tax, plus sales tax, plus other nickle and dime taxes & fees... I'm not a fan of the taxing philosophy of, "The more successful you are, the more we erase your success!"

The bottom line is the socialists & Democrats will take as much as they can get. If they can get 60, 80 or 100% from all of us, they'll drop the 54% plan as fast as a rock with the hot white heat of a thousand Suns and take as much as they can get and keep inching higher every year until the breaking point. Some people apparently are ok with giving all (or nearly all) their money to the government and have the government spend it for them, on the promise they'll create a utopia, curing all the societal ills we know damn well there's no cure for. When they do so, they're betting on the promise the politicians won't spend huge sums of their hard earned dollars on corrupt kickback & perks for their donors, fellow politicians and friends. That's fine. That's one's right to sign up for that, if one wants to, but to me it's just a scam, a ripoff. Because I know damn well giving them 50, 60 or 100% of our money, will absolutely not make our lives any better. There have been many examples of governments that have taxed that high, and they've all collapsed (USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, other communists) or had to scale back (Nordic countries, which are no longer socialists despite US politicians' claims).

What I pay, is enough. More than enough, for my taste. But that's just me. There is no shortage of politicians who will gladly take one's vote and tax you as much as you'll let them or as much or more than an economy can withstand. To them, it's all about power and enriching themselves and their cronies. And the only thing standing between them and these goals is their ability to persuade you and I it's for our benefit and not theirs.

But hey. You want higher taxes and more government benefits and programs. I want lower taxes and less government benefits and programs. And I realize you're never going to change your mind, nor am I. And that's fine. To each his own.

---

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[thiswonthurtabit]

Update: Just got my taxes back from my accountant. My taxes went down $20,000 compared to what they would have been under previous tax law.

A vote for Democrats in 2020, would require I vote myself at least a $20,000 pay cut, or maybe even up to a $100,000 pay cut, if the Socialist Crazies (Sanders, AOC) get their desired 70%+ top rates.

You make over 10 million a year (and significantly so to have the marginal rate impact your tax burden so much)? That's pretty impressive.

 

[emd123]

You make over 10 million a year (and significantly so to have the marginal rate impact your tax burden so much)? That's pretty impressive.

I don't make $10 million dollars per year and I never wrote that. Your hallucination is noted.

I make about the MGMA average, actually slightly below this year since I cut my hours. But I don't believe the Democrats & Socialists would raise taxes only on people making $10 million and leave guys like you & I alone. I'm not gullible or stupid. There's simply not enough people earning 10 million to pay for their goodies. They need to tax all the way down into the middle class, which is the majority of taxpayers. It's certainly your right vote for AOC, Sanders and crew on the promise (*wink wink*) that they raise taxes on only a tiny fracture of people and give you special protection, magically paying for their multi-trillion dollar Green New Deal, multi-trillion dollar Medicare for all and multi-trillion dollar Free College.

 

[SommeRiver]

Ill gotten gains IMO

 

[emd123]

Ill gotten gains IMO

What are "ill gotten gains"?

 

[emd123]

Oh, and all the Dems have agreed in principle that they all want to tax you if they don't like your race:

"THE AWKWARD TRUTH ABOUT DEMOCRATS AND REPARATIONS: The top-tier 2020 candidates have all endorsed the concept"
The Awkward Truth About Democrats and Reparations

It's actually amusing to see them put themselves in the position on an issue they can't get the nomination without endorsing, but can't become President while supporting.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Even if the govt provided everything free, liberals would still want to punish success. It's all about the fight against life's inherent unfairness.

 

[SommeRiver]

What are "ill gotten gains"?

Govt income is an Ill gotten gain.

 

[Ligament]

Update: Just got my taxes back from my accountant. My taxes went down $20,000 compared to what they would have been under previous tax law.

A vote for Democrats in 2020, would require I vote myself at least a $20,000 pay cut, or maybe even up to a $100,000 pay cut, if the Socialist Crazies (Sanders, AOC) get their desired 70%+ top rates.

Ssdoc and ducttape would LOVE to steal your money from you in the next election. Give them a big thanks

 

[emd123]

Govt income is an Ill gotten gain.

All government revenue is obtained by coercion. Try not filing a tax return next week and see what happens.

 

[SommeRiver]

All government revenue is obtained by coercion. Try not filing a tax return next week and see what happens.

My point exactly

 

[Doctodd]

all liberals here should lead by example and send the IRS an extra $10,000 check because it is the right thing to do for the sake of the children, humanity, global warming i mean climate change etc.....and post pictures as proof. Who's first? Dont want to send it to the IRS? Ok send it to your preferred Democrat politician or DNC.

 

[SSdoc33]

Lizzie:

“I hear all this, you know, ‘Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever,’” she said. “No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody.
“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.
“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

 

[SSdoc33]

i actually hate all this reparations talk and uber taxation and universal basical income talk. i suppose it is predictable pandering to the base, but it is WAY too far left.

nobody LIKES being taxed. we get it. but why is warren buffet taxed at a lower rate than his secretary? whether you like to admit it or not, the income inequality and shrinking middle class IS a problem (see French Revolution). you have billonaires, indigent, and a small hunk in between. the vast majority of us in this board are the "1%". its a bit comical to see the proclamations from some of you spoiled brats. nobody says you dont work hard, but have a little class.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

i actually hate all this reparations talk and uber taxation and universal basical income talk. i suppose it is predictable pandering to the base, but it is WAY too far left.

nobody LIKES being taxed. we get it. but why is warren buffet taxed at a lower rate than his secretary? whether you like to admit it or not, the income inequality and shrinking middle class IS a problem (see French Revolution). you have billonaires, indigent, and a small hunk in between. the vast majority of us in this board are the "1%". its a bit comical to see the proclamations from some of you spoiled brats. nobody says you dont work hard, but have a little class.

Yes, the US Middle Class Is Shrinking, but It's Because Americans Are Moving Up. And No, Americans Are Not Struggling to Afford a Home.

The chart above is on display at the Building Museum in Washington, D.C. as part of its current “House and Home” exhibit. As the title of the chart suggests, America’s middle class has been shrinking over time, from 61% of US households in 1971 to only 50% in 2015, when middle class is defined...

www.aei.org

That said, there really is no reason capital gains aren't taxed as regular income so long as that excludes retirement plans, HSA, stuff like that.

 

[SSdoc33]

Yes, the US Middle Class Is Shrinking, but It's Because Americans Are Moving Up. And No, Americans Are Not Struggling to Afford a Home.

The chart above is on display at the Building Museum in Washington, D.C. as part of its current “House and Home” exhibit. As the title of the chart suggests, America’s middle class has been shrinking over time, from 61% of US households in 1971 to only 50% in 2015, when middle class is defined...

www.aei.org

That said, there really is no reason capital gains aren't taxed as regular income so long as that excludes retirement plans, HSA, stuff like that.

call it "income inequality" then. whether it is foolish or not, there is a certain amount of resentment when you have 1000 dollars in you bank account vs. someone who has 1,000,000,000.

 

[hyperalgesia]

call it "income inequality" then. whether it is foolish or not, there is a certain amount of resentment when you have 1000 dollars in you bank account vs. someone who has 1,000,000,000.

Can you admit the word for this is jealousy?

 

[SSdoc33]

Can you admit the word for this is jealousy?

thats fine. ill admit it. doesnt change the politics

 

[Doctodd]

Lizzie:

“I hear all this, you know, ‘Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever,’” she said. “No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody.
“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.
“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

i get this...."you didnt build that" also comes to mind. Except it came from a guy who never had to pay employees, never had to balance his business checking account, never had to worry about payroll. How many times should a 20-50 year old road charge me and every other driver a tax or a toll? Repeatedly? And even though i bought a boat, how many people do you think i put to work in building that boat? How much in payroll taxes did they pay? Did they travel the same roads and pay tolls?

 

[SommeRiver]

If you risk your capital and it pays off big you deserve your win fall. Some people make it, some don't. The universe doesn't care about it being fair. It isn't fair that I can't play for the Lakers or the Falcons. I want to play DB for the Atlanta Falcons. It isn't fair I can't run a 4.3 and jump a 42" vertical.

 

[hyperalgesia]

thats fine. ill admit it. doesnt change the politics

Thank you. It acknowledges that wealth redistribution is not necessarily for the greater good. Instead it's to accommodate a petty emotional weakness.

 

[Ducttape]

all liberals here should lead by example and send the IRS an extra $10,000 check because it is the right thing to do for the sake of the children, humanity, global warming i mean climate change etc.....and post pictures as proof. Who's first? Dont want to send it to the IRS? Ok send it to your preferred Democrat politician or DNC.

I donate what I feel is a sizable portion of my salary to support public causes to help my fellow Americans. United Way, VVA, Michael JFox, XXI, amongst those that I can think of over the past 3 months. Your point is meaningless.

FWIW, clearly “you conservatives” think that others want to tax JUST YOU. In actuality - it has nothing to do with you. You are meaningless to the majority of Americans.

What is meaningful is the fact that there are millions of Americans that are not food secure, and millions of kids who literally do go to bed hungry, and millions of Americans without access to the same things that you casually dump in the trash. And regardless of what they do, the odds are so stacked against them that they will never get out, nor will their kids.

If I had to make a choice of making their lives 100 times better at the mininscule cost of minorly irritating a conservative rich person, then you bet your tax rate that I’d choose the former.

 

[SommeRiver]

Social programs are an overwhelming success.

Social programs = Chronic opiates in nonmalignant pain.

There are individuals who do not take advantage of it, and there are individuals who truly just need a little help right now. There are droves who do abuse it.

 

[Doctodd]

I donate what I feel is a sizable portion of my salary to support public causes to help my fellow Americans. United Way, VVA, Michael JFox, XXI, amongst those that I can think of over the past 3 months. Your point is meaningless.

FWIW, clearly “you conservatives” think that others want to tax JUST YOU. In actuality - it has nothing to do with you. You are meaningless to the majority of Americans.

What is meaningful is the fact that there are millions of Americans that are not food secure, and millions of kids who literally do go to bed hungry, and millions of Americans without access to the same things that you casually dump in the trash. And regardless of what they do, the odds are so stacked against them that they will never get out, nor will their kids.

If I had to make a choice of making their lives 100 times better at the mininscule cost of minorly irritating a conservative rich person, then you bet your tax rate that I’d choose the former.

Those are charities, not the govt. Charities are much more worthy, and much more efficient than corrupt Washington bureaucrats. You proved my “worthless” post.

Unfortunately those children live in mostly urban areas governed predominantely by Democrats.

 

[SSdoc33]

Those are charities, not the govt. Charities are much more worthy, and much more efficient than corrupt Washington bureaucrats. You proved my “worthless” post.

Unfortunately those children live in mostly urban areas governed predominantely by Democrats.

footnote, please

 

[Ducttape]

Those are charities, not the govt. Charities are much more worthy, and much more efficient than corrupt Washington bureaucrats. You proved my “worthless” post.

Unfortunately those children live in mostly urban areas governed predominantely by Democrats.

That’s actually a misconception on your part.

Top 10 states that get food stamps (most on top)
New Mexico
Louisiana
West Virginia
D of C
Oregon
Mississippi
Alabama
Georia
Tennessee
Delaware
Oklahoma
Florida
Nevada
Kentucky
Illinois

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That’s actually a misconception on your part.

Top 10 states that get food stamps (most on top)
New Mexico
Louisiana
West Virginia
D of C
Oregon
Mississippi
Alabama
Georia
Tennessee
Delaware
Oklahoma
Florida
Nevada
Kentucky
Illinois

I hate to disagree on this because the poster you were responding to is quite wrong, but 1/3rd of those have Democratic majority statehouses including numbers 1 and 5. DC (#4) would except it doesn't have a statehouse (it has 11 democratic council members and 2 independents).

So 3 of the top 5 are controlled by the democratic party.

Note: I don't think food stamp recipients have anything to do with political affiliation.

 

[Doctodd]

Are u guys going to comment on the first part of my post? Or just the debatable part?

It’s not really a stretch to say most urban areas are Democrat controlled. And it’s not really a stretch to say there are more poor people in urban areas.

 

[Ducttape]

I fail to see where 2/3 is > 1/3.

yes, 3 of the top 5 are blue states (f you include D of C), but 11 of the top 15 are red states. 11/15 >50%. argh too much math..........



doct, if you look deeper at the data, the cities with highest use of food stamps are not necessarily democratic controlled states
25. Bedford WV
24. Medford Or
23. Goldsboro NC
22. Morristown TN
21. Decatur Ill
20. Vineland-Bridgetown NJ
19. El Centro CA
18. Florence SC
17. Flint Mi
16. Fresno Ca
15. El Paso Tx
14. Eugene Or
13. Yakima Wa
12. Sumter SC
11. Las Cruses NM
10. Merced Ca
9. Longview Wa
8. Visalia-Porterview CA
7. Brownsville-Harlington Tx
6. Albany Ga
5. Hammond La
4. Rocky Mount NC
3. Grants Pass Or
2. Laredo Tx
1. McAllen-Edinburg-Mission Tx.

12 of 25 are in traditional blue states. what surprises me most is that none are in the huge metropolitan areas (with high costs of living). I don't see NYC, Boston, Chicago, Miami, LA, etc. on the top 25 cities....

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I fail to see where 2/3 is > 1/3.

yes, 3 of the top 5 are blue states (f you include D of C), but 11 of the top 15 are red states. 11/15 >50%. argh too much math..........



doct, if you look deeper at the data, the cities with highest use of food stamps are not necessarily democratic controlled states
25. Bedford WV
24. Medford Or
23. Goldsboro NC
22. Morristown TN
21. Decatur Ill
20. Vineland-Bridgetown NJ
19. El Centro CA
18. Florence SC
17. Flint Mi
16. Fresno Ca
15. El Paso Tx
14. Eugene Or
13. Yakima Wa
12. Sumter SC
11. Las Cruses NM
10. Merced Ca
9. Longview Wa
8. Visalia-Porterview CA
7. Brownsville-Harlington Tx
6. Albany Ga
5. Hammond La
4. Rocky Mount NC
3. Grants Pass Or
2. Laredo Tx
1. McAllen-Edinburg-Mission Tx.

12 of 25 are in traditional blue states. what surprises me most is that none are in the huge metropolitan areas (with high costs of living). I don't see NYC, Boston, Chicago, Miami, LA, etc. on the top 25 cities....

It shouldn't surprise you. High COL does a fine job of keeping out people who would need food stamps as they won't be able to afford to live there in the first place.

 

[Ducttape]

Avlon Tax analysis

 

[Doctodd]

Avlon Tax analysis

how many times does CNN have to be completely and utterly wrong for you to stop citing them as an expert in anything but mind control? 2 1/2 years of playing you like Charlie Brown wasnt enough to convince you?

 

[hyperalgesia]

how many times does CNN have to be completely and utterly wrong for you to stop citing them as an expert in anything but mind control? 2 1/2 years of playing you like Charlie Brown wasnt enough to convince you?

What a total crock. CNN is the biggest joke on TV.

 

[Ducttape]

dont forget, the following trump advocates have also had a position at CNN:

Corey Lewandowski
Jeffrey Lord
Kayleigh McEnany
Michael Caputo
Rob Astorino
Marc Short

CNN Needs Pro-Trump Voices, but Has a Hard Time Keeping Them on TV

CNN's shows regularly feature people who like to defend President Trump. Keeping their seats filled is becoming a tougher task.

variety.com

if you dispute the tax assessment, how about posting something to defend your opinion rather than spout nonsensical conservative dribble?

 

[Ducttape]

FWIW - NOT from CNN:

Blue-state Republicans embraced the 2017 tax cuts. It may have cost them.

When Washington Republicans were working to pass their tax reform package in 2017, there were warnings that it could cost many of them their seats in the...

www.marketwatch.com

How Trump's tax cuts hurt the GOP in America's wealthy suburbs

A number of GOP seats flipped blue as upper middle class Republicans in the suburbs took issue with the Trump tax bill's cap on state and local tax deductions.

finance.yahoo.com

States Most Affected by Tax Reform

States Most Affected by Tax Reform

wallethub.com

Trump’s War Against Blue States

He is waging war on an economic model that devotes greater resources to public education and a stronger social safety net.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[hyperalgesia]

One of the biggest fallacies we keep seeing spewed on TV is that if you find one group that is more affected by a law than another group, it means there's a "war" on the former group.

Like, because the tax law affects "blue states" more than "red states", it means there's a conspiracy of "reds" to punish "blues". This is hilarious. It's logic that should only work on little children, before their brains are fully developed.

 

[dangEras]

Update: Just got my taxes back from my accountant. My taxes went down $20,000 compared to what they would have been under previous tax law.

A vote for Democrats in 2020, would require I vote myself at least a $20,000 pay cut, or maybe even up to a $100,000 pay cut, if the Socialist Crazies (Sanders, AOC) get their desired 70%+ top rates.

You would actually get a ~40% paycut if Bernie got his way with "Medicare for all". Calculate your income on only medicare/medicaid patients and zero commercial insurance.

 

[Doctodd]

You wanted more taxes and illegals in sanctuary cities, and now you complain when u get your way?

Now that reparations are being offered, how about the more than half a million injured or killed soldiers who fought against slavery in the war?

 

[Ducttape]

One of the biggest fallacies we keep seeing spewed on TV is that if you find one group that is more affected by a law than another group, it means there's a "war" on the former group.

Like, because the tax law affects "blue states" more than "red states", it means there's a conspiracy of "reds" to punish "blues". This is hilarious. It's logic that should only work on little children, before their brains are fully developed.

coming from a die hard trump supporter...

dont forget, this comes after trump himself has stated he wants to punish blue states that do not support him.

probably the #1 source of a "war" against a group of people comes from the President himself.

 

[hyperalgesia]

coming from a die hard trump supporter...

dont forget, this comes after trump himself has stated he wants to punish blue states that do not support him.

probably the #1 source of a "war" against a group of people comes from the President himself.

Don't forget, the same people telling you that Trump said he wants to "punish blue states" also told you there was collusion between Trump and Russia, which there wasn't. They also told you there was "obstruction of justice", which is absurd. They also told you Hillary would be president, which she's not. They keep telling you ridiculous things and you keep believing them. Why?

It's TRUE there is a war between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. But it's such a small, pathetic and petty war they both have to make it look more epic. There is no low that is too low for the political parties to rile people up. "Antisemite", "racist", "sexist", "hates poor people" - You name it, they'll accuse it.

We just don't have to buy into it. It makes no sense. Most people are not obsessively loyal to their crooked political party institution. They're not taht Machiavellian.

 

[Doctodd]

those same people said Trump would nuke the world with his finger on the red button against North Korea. Those same people said the economy would crash if Trump won. They dont just attack Trump....he just happens to be in the way of their attacks on religion, law enforcement officers, and conservative values. Open borders, lots of taxes, the 2nd amendment, racism, sexism......the battle lines are drawn. If they dont exist, they just make them up or manufacture them.

 

[Ducttape]

Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

actually, the posts i posted were from websites that are specifically financial sites.

marketwatch is actually right-center. wallethub doesnt rank at all.

so your point doctodd is completely moot.

fwiw, fox news, the purveyor of fake news... so maybe you are right that the tax laws are helping blue states:

Here's who's winning under Trump's tax law

Analysis by Zachary B. Wolf Tax day isn't until Monday, but there have already been some surprises for Americans filing their first income tax returns under President Donald Trump's...

www.wicz.com

here is another legal website that does not turn out under any media bias website:

The New Tax Law Punishes Blue States: Is That Constitutional?

Cornell University law professor Michael C. Dorf considers whether the new tax law, which disproportionally affects “blue” states as compared to “red” states due to changes to the deductions for state...

verdict.justia.com

finally, as a sidenote, from another financial website against SALT, from a federalist standpoint:

A Federalist Case for Revival of the State and Local Tax Deduction

In their near-repeal of SALT, Republicans are speeding up the process whereby states have little choice but to tax very little so that the federal government can tax a lot.

www.forbes.com

 

[Doctodd]

Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

actually, the posts i posted were from websites that are specifically financial sites.

marketwatch is actually right-center. wallethub doesnt rank at all.

so your point doctodd is completely moot.

fwiw, fox news, the purveyor of fake news... so maybe you are right that the tax laws are helping blue states:

Here's who's winning under Trump's tax law

Analysis by Zachary B. Wolf Tax day isn't until Monday, but there have already been some surprises for Americans filing their first income tax returns under President Donald Trump's...

www.wicz.com

here is another legal website that does not turn out under any media bias website:

The New Tax Law Punishes Blue States: Is That Constitutional?

Cornell University law professor Michael C. Dorf considers whether the new tax law, which disproportionally affects “blue” states as compared to “red” states due to changes to the deductions for state...

verdict.justia.com

finally, as a sidenote, from another financial website against SALT, from a federalist standpoint:

A Federalist Case for Revival of the State and Local Tax Deduction

In their near-repeal of SALT, Republicans are speeding up the process whereby states have little choice but to tax very little so that the federal government can tax a lot.

www.forbes.com

which point were u trying to discredit? lol... that CNN is credible???? I read your first article....cant say i disagree much. But the usual "jealousy" card is being played as usual in the way it is written. As for CNN being legit?.....sorry not buying that anytime soon. Since the founder Ted Turner was a Castro loving communist, they have only been smarter in their attempts at disguising their propaganda.

 

[SSdoc33]

which point were u trying to discredit? lol... that CNN is credible???? I read your first article....cant say i disagree much. But the usual "jealousy" card is being played as usual in the way it is written. As for CNN being legit?.....sorry not buying that anytime soon. Since the founder Ted Turner was a Castro loving communist, they have only been smarter in their attempts at propaganda.

this whole thread is a case study in why you are wrong.

duct presents 1+1 = 2,gives proof ,yet you dont believe it. instead of showing us WHY 1+1 ≠ 2, you rant. that really is all you are good for -- ranting opinions. you may be better off as a fiction writer, because science does not appear to be your forte'

 

[hyperalgesia]

this whole thread is a case study in why you are wrong.

duct presents 1+1 = 2,gives proof ,yet you dont believe it. instead of showing us WHY 1+1 ≠ 2, you rant. that really is all you are good for -- ranting opinions. you may be better off as a fiction writer, because science does not appear to be your forte'

No one is mentioning that the SALT deduction disproportionately helps HIGH INCOME EARNERS. Suddenly democrats have shifted their position to save the wealthy...

 

[Doctodd]

this whole thread is a case study in why you are wrong.

duct presents 1+1 = 2,gives proof ,yet you dont believe it. instead of showing us WHY 1+1 ≠ 2, you rant. that really is all you are good for -- ranting opinions. you may be better off as a fiction writer, because science does not appear to be your forte'

you can think what you want....i agree with you that it is a waste of your time.

 

[Ducttape]

if anything, please just read the one article about not willing to change your mind. you are a textbook case, unfortunately.

some of the conservatives on this forum could take a lesson from drusso, because even though i disagree with his beliefs, he - like myself - reads and reviews opposing opinions.

now i know i got him upset...


(apparently, the penalty of the SALT is balanced out to some extent by the changes in AMT for high income earners...)

 

[hyperalgesia]

(apparently, the penalty of the SALT is balanced out to some extent by the changes in AMT for high income earners...)

Not. Even. Close.

"For taxpayers who are married filing jointly, the [AMT] exemption is $109,400 in 2018. It is $70,300 for singles and heads of household, and the exemption is $54,700 for married taxpayers filing separately. Those exemptions compare to $84,000, $54,300 and $42,250, respectively, for 2017."

So the AMT changes went from 84k-109k if you're married and 54k-70k if you're single.

With the new tax plan, you can STILL deduct 10k of state income tax. Lower income people don't pay more than 10k of state income tax.

Under the new tax plan, the wealthy (ie B Sanders and E Warren), if living in a high income tax state, will now be forced to pay federal taxes on all their millions, even after paying state taxes. So "millionaires and billionaires" are definitely paying more of their "fair share" now, thanks to the new tax law. Maybe that's why they hate it so much?

*What You Need To Know About The New Alternative Minimum Tax
(warning: lots of ads here)

 

[lonelobo]

commies = commies

Dummy=Dummy

 

[Ducttape]

apparently, it is more complicated that what you say....

How the SALT Deduction Interacts with the AMT & Pease - Tax Foundation

The way the state and local tax deduction, alternative minimum tax, and Pease limitation interact is complex. This primer makes things easier to understand.

taxfoundation.org

The House Tax Cuts and Jobs Act would repeal the state and local income and sales tax deductions, while capping the property tax deduction at $10,000. Many taxpayers who currently itemize (and take the SALT deduction) would benefit from taking the higher standard deduction instead, and even some of those who still elect to itemize may come out ahead due to the new rate schedule. Some analyses have assumed that those with uniquely high state tax burdens would be set back substantially by this provision of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. But many of these taxpayers are already unable to take the SALT deduction due to the AMT, or only claim a portion of it due to the Pease limitation. For taxpayers denied the SALT deduction currently, replacing the overall deduction with a capped property tax deduction, paired with the repeal of the AMT and the Pease limitation, actually represents a modest benefit, not a loss.