Overnight work

[radsgrad]

I have been able to find some relevant info for my question but nothing too specific so I'll lay it down here and see what happens.

I am a 4th year medical student and I am starting to see myself going down this radiology trail for several reasons. One being the potential to work "graveyard" shifts, for some reason I have always been a "night owl" and I constantly find myself watching the sun come up if my schedule allows .

I am curious what the job market looks like for night shift work? My understanding is that some radiologist do work exclusively at night, but where I did my rads rotation no one was on in house over night. I am not sure if these jobs are hard to come by, the setting of the work, the typical schedule, level of compensation, etc. I really wanted to ask more of the attending that was running the AMA page in the med student section, but my understanding is he isn't posting anymore. I have tried looking at job postings but I just can't find a reliable source.

If any of you are in this kind of work or would like to weigh in I would certainly appreciate hearing from you.

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[meister]

Night shift radiology positions are relatively plentiful. It is probably the most in-demand job type for diagnostic radiologists. Typical schedule is 7 nights on 7 or 14 nights off, with 7/7 being more common recently though 7/14 is supposedly becoming more common again. There are both evening type positions (covering afternoon to midnight or so) as well as nocturnal type positions (overnight until the morning), and most would probably have you do a mix. Best fellowships for this would be neuro and emergency. Compensation is fair but a lot of these jobs are non-partnership track at private practices for whatever reason. Positions exist at academic centers as well as with corporate outfits/telerads.

 

[Derv]

Night shift radiology positions are relatively plentiful. It is probably the most in-demand job type for diagnostic radiologists. Typical schedule is 7 nights on 7 or 14 nights off, with 7/7 being more common recently though 7/14 is supposedly becoming more common again. There are both evening type positions (covering afternoon to midnight or so) as well as nocturnal type positions (overnight until the morning), and most would probably have you do a mix. Best fellowships for this would be neuro and emergency. Compensation is fair but a lot of these jobs are non-partnership track at private practices for whatever reason. Positions exist at academic centers as well as with corporate outfits/telerads.

This is probably a really stupid question, but I recently questioned my understanding of these 7/7 and 7/14 jobs. When you mean "7 off" does that mean you get 7 days off (or 14), or that you do 7 night shifts, then 7 day shifts, then 7 night shifts? If you take a 7/14 job, does that really mean that you only work 1 out of 3 weeks of the year???

 

[Radology]

Some have the arrangement like you said with nights/days/off rotation.

7on14off jobs do exists, they are actually rather plentiful right now.

 

[RadsFTW123]

There is tons of demand for night radiologists, and the pay per hour is pretty darn high. However that's because it's isolating and you're a cog in the machine that is pretty replaceable (true in radiology and medicine in general, but without relationships with referring MDs and a real expertise, it's a little more acute in ED radiology).

 

[SageRad]

Night shift jobs are in great demand. You can work for a large telerad company, a national practice, a large local/regional practice, or mid size group (smaller groups tend to outsource it). You could probably live wherever you wanted to reside in the USA.

 

[radsgrad]

Night shift radiology positions are relatively plentiful. It is probably the most in-demand job type for diagnostic radiologists. Typical schedule is 7 nights on 7 or 14 nights off, with 7/7 being more common recently though 7/14 is supposedly becoming more common again. There are both evening type positions (covering afternoon to midnight or so) as well as nocturnal type positions (overnight until the morning), and most would probably have you do a mix. Best fellowships for this would be neuro and emergency. Compensation is fair but a lot of these jobs are non-partnership track at private practices for whatever reason. Positions exist at academic centers as well as with corporate outfits/telerads.

Thanks for the info. Certainly sounds great to me, I would rather cover the night anyway.

Interesting that some groups wouldn't put you on a partnership track though. Maybe they figure most people won't want that shift for the long term

 

[DrBowtie]

Thanks for the info. Certainly sounds great to me, I would rather cover the night anyway.

Interesting that some groups wouldn't put you on a partnership track though. Maybe they figure most people won't want that shift for the long term

I think it's mainly because the night shift guys usually aren't doing the other business building activities like committees, tumor boards, etc.

 

[kb0275]

What is the pay difference betwee the night and day radiologists?

 

[Gadofosveset]

Like... night and day. Couldn't resist.

It varies from place to place, depending on the particular resposibilities, schedule, and on the partnership or promotion possibilities.

I'd estimate that it's about one s.d. above the usual for the area.

 

[radsgrad]

What is the pay difference betwee the night and day radiologists?

Somewhere on SDN i read a radiologist say the pay and benefits are similar between the two, its the schedule and amount of days worked where most of the benefit is at for covering the night. But I agree with the above post that everything probably varies greatly from one type of practice to the next and location.

 

[radsgrad]

Let's say you come out of residency/fellowship into an overnight position with a either practice or telerads if you worked there for like 10 years would it then be hard to switch to a day coverage job? I would imagine you would lose a lot of your procedural skills and networking opportunities while reading at night and would therefore be less attractive as an applicant.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Let's say you come out of residency/fellowship into an overnight position with a either practice or telerads if you worked there for like 10 years would it then be hard to switch to a day coverage job? I would imagine you would lose a lot of your procedural skills and networking opportunities while reading at night and would therefore be less attractive as an applicant.

You definitely lose a lot of skills. Examples are
- anything IR
- cancer imaging
- MSK MR
- abdominal MR
- out pt stuff.

 

[recycledpaper]

One week of nights for 2 weeks off is insane. And for similar pay? Sign me up.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

One week of nights for 2 weeks off is insane. And for similar pay? Sign me up.

Amen to that brother. I am a night owl. I'd do nights for less pay.

 

[Gadofosveset]

One week of nights for 2 weeks off is insane. And for similar pay? Sign me up.

You know what they say about things that are too good to be true...

This is a great shift for the right kind of person (night owl, no family, etc.), but this is essentially taking call for your entire life. The burnout is strong, and worse if you work for an academic center where you will be treated like a second (or third) class citizen. Also, you should not get similar pay, you should get more pay.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

You know what they say about things that are too good to be true...

This is a great shift for the right kind of person (night owl, no family, etc.), but this is essentially taking call for your entire life. The burnout is strong, and worse if you work for an academic center where you will be treated like a second (or third) class citizen. Also, you should not get similar pay, you should get more pay.

Agreed. Night time work demand a premium.

 

[recycledpaper]

How is 1 week on, 2 week off, the same as call for your entire life?

I do agree, night work is tough because it messes with your hormones, sleep cycle, etc.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

How is 1 week on, 2 week off, the same as call for your entire life?

I do agree, night work is tough because it messes with your hormones, sleep cycle, etc.

Pretty much anyone you talk to will tell you that you never get used to that schedule, and that while 2 weeks off "sounds" great, the reality is quite different:

1. You need 2-3 days to shift your cycle into night mode prior to the week you work.

2. You need 2-3 days to shift your cycle back into day mode after the week of nights.

3. Realistically, you only have 1 week of being normally functioning and during that week you are contemplating the misery of having to re-cylcle all over again.

4. You simply never get "used" to it in the natural sense.

 

[radsgrad]

Pretty much anyone you talk to will tell you that you never get used to that schedule, and that while 2 weeks off "sounds" great, the reality is quite different:

1. You need 2-3 days to shift your cycle into night mode prior to the week you work.

2. You need 2-3 days to shift your cycle back into day mode after the week of nights.

3. Realistically, you only have 1 week of being normally functioning and during that week you are contemplating the misery of having to re-cylcle all over again.

4. You simply never get "used" to it in the natural sense.

If you are constantly trying to adjust your sleep wake cycle I think you will be miserable. Those of us that want the grave-yard sleep cycle to be their everyday normal would probably be the only group that would realize the full benefit of a position like this. Otherwise i would take a day job as most offer plenty of PTO and keep my sanity.

 

[Radology]

Not to mention, you're on call for 18 weekends a year.

These jobs sounds great on paper, but you're off is when the rest of the world is working--mainly your friends and your family, and you're working the night shifts during the big sporting events, your kids dance recitals, your girlfriends night on the town...

So unless you are a super introvert who prefers not seeing a soul at work, or a single person who needs the weeks off to travel the world, or have a hobby/side job on those off weeks, it's not gonna be for you.

 

[colbgw02]

Not to mention, you're on call for 18 weekends a year.

For me, this is a huge barrier and the primary reason why I didn't take such a job. Dismissing the effects on my health for a moment, I never really feel like I'm missing out on much at home during the week provided that I can be there during the evening (i.e. bedtime) hours. During the day, my kids are in school and my SO at work anyway. The weekend is a different story, and the idea of missing out on 1/3 Christmases, Thanksgivings, birthday parties, etc., was too much.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

For me, this is a huge barrier and the primary reason why I didn't take such a job. Dismissing the effects on my health for a moment, I never really feel like I'm missing out on much at home during the week provided that I can be there during the evening (i.e. bedtime) hours. During the day, my kids are in school and my SO at work anyway. The weekend is a different story, and the idea of missing out on 1/3 Christmases, Thanksgivings, birthday parties, etc., was too much.

I guess the positive side is that radiology wasn't losing its jobs to "tele-radiology" hawks as the scare was a few years ago.

 

[recycledpaper]

Good info to know. Didn't know the 18 weekend call bit. Major drag.