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Chicago2012

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I'm starting to reach the point where I think the chances of me ever matching are almost down to zero and it may be time to start thinking about not applying again. Problem is that my employment options are practically non-existent and not nearly enough to pay back $300,000 in loans. I've tried applying to research positions and pharm positions in past years but have never gotten a single interview for any of those positions. I am deeply depressed at this point and am afraid that I'm going to be stuck in debt for the rest of my life with no hope of getting out. I really don't know what to do at this point. IMGs who I know keep encouraging me saying, "you're an AMG, you'll match," but it's starting to become obvious that that will never happen for me. Please help.

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I'm no expert but based on what I've read on SDN (I don't know how much of this you've tried and your financial situation or what your app is like). I also don't know what specialty you're going for but at this point it better be something very not competitive.

Your alma mater med school is the best one to help you at all.
Try to get an observership there or as much suck up contact with any docs there. Your old dean and old letter writers or any docs that mentored you or you did rotations with. Just be allowed to tag along shadowing is going to be better than nothing. Maybe you can tutor there, do research, or get another degree while you network there. Some of this may be paid or not, but being on campus is going to be key. If not you'll have to figure out money. Live out of a van if you have to. There's some thread I posted in before about poverty/saving money I can give you ideas. You need the med school to be base camp even if you've moved away, move back if they have anything for you to do there. Unless you find another doc to take you under the wing.

If you matched before the old PD is your best bet to try to pull any strings for you (long shot I know).

At this point, you're needing clincial experience (exposure really since you can't do anything with the MD) to keep your head in the game and have any docs behind you to advocate for you.

To get a match now, you'll have to have the above entitities to list for experience, updated letters, references, and hopefully they can advocate/network for you. However you are able to get tied in with them, to contact programs on your behalf and you'll have to contact programs individually.

You try to look for programs or positions outside the match. There are threads on here about how to do that.

That's the only way because you have to find ways to bring yourself to the attention of PDs because the match filters are likely going to filter you out.

It's hard because you have to try to build "ins" and "contacts" outside the match.

There are certain times of year it's good to try to find openings on residentswap and the AAMC for off cycle positions.

May/June/July/Aug is a good time to let a slew of programs know you're interested and to keep you mind if something opens up (rarely an intern bails last min for whatever reason). Also interns get lost mid year Nov/Dec for various reasons.

Somewhere in my post history (multiple threads?) there are a handful that goes into how letters of interest etc.

@aProgDirector and his post history is good for this too
 
And if ERAS app is a waste of time/money now a cheaper option is waiting and just signing up for the SOAP as it's cheaper and you see what didn't fill and apply. You can also use lists of places that didn't fill to contact after all the SOAPing because not every program fills even after SOAP.
 
My medical school is of zero help. I finally found a mentor to do some research with but it is very limited because my wife does not work, so obviously living in a van is not an option. I am also volunteering at a free clinic. I've tried just about everything and to no avail. I don't know if I can take going through all this rejection again next year. I'm at the point where I feel like literally ripping up my diploma.
 
SOAP was also a waste of time the last two years.
 
Yeah all you can do is keep those clinical skills as sharp as you can and try to get research. Then you have to try to contact all the PDs you can and see if anyone will give you a chance at an unexpected opening.

It's way too hard to get a residency or other MD related job if life happens and you're trying to get back in the game.

Some people do an informatics degree and then can find some work from what I hear through the grapevine. Sometimes you can help with EHR go live if you have experience with EHR, like Epic let's say, that could lead to some contacts in a hospital.

Maybe the AOA amd ACGME merger will help open doors. :xf:
 
Did you follow up by call and email to the programs that were on the unfilled list AFTER the soap thing all ended? Some go unfilled even after that.

Are you applying for FM, IM, psych, any other less competitive specialty, in all locations? Even a surgery prelim year would be better than nothing.

The programs in NY always seem to be going unfilled and losing residents.

Is your PD sabotaging you?
 
I'm starting to reach the point where I think the chances of me ever matching are almost down to zero and it may be time to start thinking about not applying again. Problem is that my employment options are practically non-existent and not nearly enough to pay back $300,000 in loans. I've tried applying to research positions and pharm positions in past years but have never gotten a single interview for any of those positions. I am deeply depressed at this point and am afraid that I'm going to be stuck in debt for the rest of my life with no hope of getting out. I really don't know what to do at this point. IMGs who I know keep encouraging me saying, "you're an AMG, you'll match," but it's starting to become obvious that that will never happen for me. Please help.
What's your background, OP?
 
:yuck::mad::(:confused::eek::oops:o_O:android::arghh::artist::bag::bear::bigtears::blackeye::bored::bucktooth::clown::cold::coldfeet::cow::cyclops::dead::depressed::doctor::drowning::eggface::grumpy::hungover::hurting::inpain::link::lurking::mask::meh::nailbiting::panda::peeking::punch::rage::yeahright::sorry::sour::spitoutpacifier::vamp::vomit::wideyed::heckyeah::writer::yawn::zombie::censored::cryi::sick::unsure::scared::ninja::eyebrow::wow:+pissed+:sendoff::shrug::uhno::help::bang::annoyed::boom::wtf:

Just a few of my feels for ya.

I still believe that one day you can get a residency but you'll have to do a lot to keep that possibility alive. Get Step 3 done, just because you only have so much time to do so easily. Do the research. Do the volunteering.

I don't know if you're located near your alma mater.

You need a to be under the wing of a doc who can write you a great letter and make calls to programs. You need to do the equivalent of begging at a program you might possibly have an "in" at. There is someone that will let you get close to enough to help you get another chance.

Of course, this brings us to the nasty issue of what went wrong for you with matching and your last program.

If you have a good sob story there will be some way to get the attention of someone to help you rebuild.

There are some docs who have left medicine and try to get back and have a hard time, they might have ideas. There's some website called the drop out club.
 
I have not ever matched anywhere. As for my medical school FM program, the Program Director told me to my face that I don't have a chance to interview there.
 
I have not ever matched anywhere. As for my medical school FM program, the Program Director told me to my face that I don't have a chance to interview there.

Step scores?
Preclinical Failures?
Clinical failures?
Clinical grades?
Failed years?
Class quartile?
Disciplinary actions/academic honesty issues?
Published research?
What have you done in the intervening 2 years?
 
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I do have a couple of red flags that I'd rather not get into publically. I really think its time to give up.
 
I do have a couple of red flags that I'd rather not get into publically. I really think its time to give up.
Fair enough. But it does mean it's harder for us to help you.

If you don't want to go public, you could try PM-ing a PD here (as @Crayola227 helpfully pointed out).

Otherwise, if you're willing and able to move overseas, you could try to practice in a country like New Zealand or Australia (where I am).
 
I would like to think despite any red flags there will be a way to one day practice clinical medicine for you if that is your dream.

Again, just what I like to think. I hope it's not hopeless.

It's true life can get better.

You can PM me if you like. No matter your "red flags" I will give you honest kind advice or even just sympathy if nothing else.
 
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Realistic advise:

Many people don't want to hear this, but the numbers just do not allow for subpar graduates to get into residency these days.
I know many in your situation and none of them have had success. There are too many other applicants with no questions about their history.

As a clinical alternative, pursuing a nursing degree would allow you a reliable income. Working some overtime would allow for payments (or PSLF if you work for a nonprofit hospital or Govt). There is a pathway to success! It may just not be the one you've been on.
 
No matter what your red flags are, it may just be that there are too many candidates without any red flags for you to stand a chance against them. If it's keeping your home program from considering you, it's much more unlikely that a program where you're an unknown would be sympathetic. I'm sorry, and I hope whatever you end up doing works out for you.
 
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Having failed to match multiple years in a row, having failed with SOAP multiple times, being told by people from your home program that you're SOL... that tells me that there is one or multiple big red flags in your application (as you've alluded to), and they are probably the kind that will prevent you from ever getting a spot. Those kinds of red-flags aren't going to be offset by an observership, research position, etc.

I wouldn't keep reapplying. The applications are a waste of money at this point. Don't go looking for a job that will allow you to repay the $300k; it's unlikely to happen. Find a job that will allow you to support your family and make the minimum monthly payment on your loans, or the income-based repayment amounts. Be a teacher; do something based off your undergrad degree. There are lots of options.
 
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Allow me to clarify, I have a Step 1 failure (passed on my second attempt), but I passed Step 2 on the first try. The program director at my school told me that they don't interview anyone with any step failures regardless of anything else.
 
As for the advice, no offense, but I do not want to be in debt for the entirety of the rest of my life. The last few years have been absolute hell. Literally anything that could go wrong has. I am living paycheck to paycheck at a job that I absolutely hate and I need something that can take me out of that hole. I am on antidepressants and have contemplated suicide several times. And now I'm basically being told that all of this suffering was for nothing because I have no hope. I was hoping for someone to at least have advice as to what I can do in terms of consulting or some other position where I can actually feel useful, but all I get is that it's hopeless. Thanks for making me even more depressed.
 
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As for the advice, no offense, but I do not want to be in debt for the entirety of the rest of my life. The last few years have been absolute hell. Literally anything that could go wrong has. I am living paycheck to paycheck at a job that I absolutely hate and I need something that can take me out of that hole. I am on antidepressants and have contemplated suicide several times. And now I'm basically being told that all of this suffering was for nothing because I have no hope. I was hoping for someone to at least have advice as to what I can do in terms of consulting or some other position where I can actually feel useful, but all I get is that it's hopeless. Thanks for making me even more depressed.
I don't think anyone here has told you that it's hopeless. But you really need to give us more information on your situation if you want a realistic answer to your question.

Specialty? Where have you applied in the past? Other issues on your app (besides failed Step I)? I mean, there are million things we need to know in order to help you out. You're more than welcome to come here and throw yourself a pity party...I don't think anyone would begrudge you that. But if you really want some help, you need to provide more information.
 
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@Doctor Bob will do that to you.

Maybe he's right a clinical path ain't going to do it. There are rare stories on SDN linked to articles where people could get the student loan debt discharged by court as an unreasonable hardship if you can show enough evidence that you can't get any jobs above a certain amount. IBR can keep payments low and it will go away after 20 years. Not awesome, that kind of debt even paying on it your credit is ruined. That's the debt part of it.

I don't look down on you if your home program isn't helpful, I got funny looks for not being interviewed by my program on the trail but my school makes no bones at all about the fact that they simple DO NOT take their own. They have like a quota that for like IM, out of 30 students (less slightly less than 1/4 the class size total) only 3-4 would get interviews or match, for a program size that was somewhere between 30-50 can't remember. Not everyone can be in the top 10% to even get looked at by their own well-regarded school, doesn't mean they're losers.
Beyond the first match cycle there's no incentive for them to give a **** about you matching. THIS HAPPENS. SOME SCHOOLS WILL NOT TAKE THEIR OWN AOA OR ELSE AS A MATTER OF POLICY. Those folks were not competitive at their own program but lesser tiered/snotty programs snatched them up.

That said, yes, programs don't want to take anyone who's ever failed a Step. This is ridiculous if it's really the only red flag first time around. Waste of an MD that would probably be totally fine in primary care or psych. True that then next year things don't get better. The scramble is a joke as a solution when you look at how few spots are actually left vs how many still going for them.

Anyway, with an MD and nothing else, there is hope for a better job. Won't be easy. People try to get an informatics, public health, MBA, law degree. Probably the only thing that will really work well is informatics. There are unpaid internships I have heard of with FDA that can help you try to get experience to move into pharma trials stuff.

Community college teaching maybe. If you get a masters in teaching you will be able to be a teacher somewhere. Community college or high school. I know someone who was an excellent math/physics/science tutor making $20/hr (6 years ago) under the table but of course crazy hours and not rich but OK.

Medical consulting or writing will be piecemeal work, nothing to bank a future on but can get some cash or experience.

The wanted ads here on SDN look for EHR go live people, Kaplan, USMLE stuff. The drop out club network is mostly for docs looking to get out of clinical practice but there's some other stuff there.

Again, there are people who make miraculous comebacks although yes it is rare.

One person I know from China who was post-doc researcher at a good US university for 5 years post grad got an off cycle position. Of course they were otherwise attractive applicant but IMG that had to find something else in US to get a foot in door.

Despite what Doctor Bob said, if you do something otherwise nice on your resume, keep those clinic skills alive somehow, network, publish, get advocates, and keep your eyes peeled feelers out and try to look for positions outside the match, NYC, new programs, programs on probation, programs that don't fill, programs in undesirable location, or try to have an in or be besties or ingratiate yourself somewhere there is a program, there is a chance that one day there will be an opening, a program will be desperate, and give you a shot.

So you need to move on with your life job wise, be the best you can be at that, and totally move on, or else keep an eye open for the rest of your working life. You can't bet on a miracle, but you can work for one and keep an eye to the sky.

Looking at other countries might work. I know in Ecuador they pay a **** ton to docs to recruit from other countries from like Cuba because of their doc shortage. The hurdle there is getting Spanish fluency.

If you went to say random third world country X amd did amazing stuff there, and kept your eye open for a program that needs a doc bad when the NBME can't help them, that could be your only chance. No, for real, docs go and do anything medical somewhere else and sometimes then they can return. If you keep yourself medical adjacent things may one day change and allow you another chance.

Keep treading water, maybe with the AOA merger things can help (maybe not).

Definitely go practice in Missouri if that program ever gets off its feet. That might poise you for something later.

Become a blogger and be involved in medicine in any small way.

If nothing else, do you have family? Friends? Maybe tell them your feelings. Have a beloved pet? Read all the SDN threads about how wicked and evil medicine is, start a blog about its evil. Grow to hate it and its syncophants not yourself. Develop your hobbies. What was the second occupation you might have wanted to do? Go to Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families website and see if that fits you at all.

Hopefully all of this will help you convince yourself you are a human being, a child, a parent, a romantic partner, a pet owner, a cello player, a blogger. You are NOT your job. You ARE Doctor Chicago2012, you earned the title you deserve it. But you are also just Chicago2012. And medicine was the ****ty ****ty miserable job that just tried to rob you of everything including your life. And it isn't worth it. It really isn't.

Most of the people in your life aren't Doctor so and so. The idea that they might lose you over this horrible horrible job and debt, would be horrific and unfathomable to them. Seriously, if you have people in your life that really love you, tell them you've considered suicide. The look on their faces might just be enough to shock you out of it.

They did some study of people jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge, the ones that lived, and asked them what went through their minds as they were about to die flying through the air. Apparently almost all of them expressed regret and thought of their families and it finally got through to them just how much it woukd hurt them. Depression can give you a kind of tunnel vision, a sort of seizure keeps you in a loop that can really affect your empathy and make it very easy just to feel your pain. Sometimes you need a wake up call.

The times I felt suicidal I was too ashamed to tell anyone, and partly I knew if I did it would be harder to indulge in that sort of thinking. I'm glad I did though, because feeling THEIR sadness and persepective that they might lose a loved one over a ****ing JOB put things into perspective.

I was born Crayola227, that's me. And don't let the profession that robbed you get away with it and steal anymore than it has a right to.

You're grieving your dream. The truth is, you didn't lose what you thought. It's mostly a meat grinder that will suck your soul and put you in the company of condescending sociopaths that make up a considerable minority. Any system that would do this to you isn't worth dying over, it isn't worth being miserable over. It did damage your life. Time to reclaim it.

Get bitter and tell everyone within shouting range what's what.

Medicine doesn't have to be this way. That might not change anything for your circumstances.

The debt and lack of money from medicine, and not being able to care for people like you've always dreamed, now that's hard. But this can be a blessing in disguise. If you can find anything else in life to give your energy to, you might find that you can get your life back. Your relationships, your sleep, eating meals, stretching, going for walks. Smelling flowers. Not being emptionally abused.

Contact Dr. Pamela Wible maybe. Advocate for the topic of physician suicide. Even without residency, you are a physician.

Good luck.
 
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Dude if you want help just tell us about your application? You are annoymous no one is going to know who you are by your stats. Also failing step 1 alone is not enough of a red flag for an US med student not to match into something. How many places and programs did you apply to? I really can't feel sorry for you if you are not open about your application. Your red flags can't be that severe because you were allowed to graduate.
 
Couple of thoughts, none of which you'll probably find particularly helpful.

1. You're in a horrible situation and you may not have any good options left that involve medicine. There are some public options such as preventative medicine or MD/MPH program (forget the name but it basically pays low six figures for an MD/MPH to do public health for the government) that may be easier to get into from than an allopathic residency. You also don't state if you limited your applications to certain areas, in which case it's possible you may find something in BFE doing psych or PM&R since it sounds like FM hasn't worked out.

2. You don't mention other members of the family but if you're wife isn't working and you don't have enough kids that childcare is more expensive then what she would bring in then she needs to start working. I appreciate the sense of accomplishment that being the breadwinner provides, but that dream is gone and acting like it's still going to happen is going to compound an already stressful situation. If your marriage breaks under the strain of financial stress or you break under the strain of keeping up appearances, she's going to be thrust back into the job market and it will be easier if she isn't grief stricken when she does.

3. While cross-posting is forbidden, I think it would be useful to med students to read this thread. As you've unfortunately discovered, we work our asses off and sacrifice our youth to have the options of doing what we want later in life. While everyone has different potentials, the steps required to be successful on the boards are pretty well established. They matter more than probably anything else you'd have done thus far in your career. Don't let the fact that it's happening in a scholastic environment make you let down your guard.
 
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They don't have to give us their life story to suggest strategies or alternate careers. I came up with several ideas. Some will apply/not apply depending on factors I don't know but it doesn't mean I can't make a list.

For ****'s sake, you'd think none of you ever did the game "CC: chest pain" and had to come up with a DDx and if a gomer with no subj what test/PE you would do.

"CC: can't match what options?" and I've given a pretty complete A/P with that alone. Obviously more history let's you narrow but I don't berate patients or anonymous SDN posters for info if they're not going to offer more. I can still offer solace and ideas.

Not every medical problem needs critical thinking. Work on your imaginations and and compassion people.

Reminds me of a DS9 quote: "I suggest rest," Dr. Bashir says. "So you know what's wrong with me?" "I haven't a clue, but it's hard for a doctor to go wrong with that one."
 
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Here's my full problem. First, I had initially wanted to go into surgery but that was obviously out of the question. I then volunteered at a free clinic on the North Side of Chicago and truly learned to love Primary Care, and I felt that Family Medicine was something that I could see myself doing for the rest of my life. So I applied to 40 FM programs that first match and had 7 interviews. The next year I applied to 120 programs and got back 8 interviews. This year I applied to 40 programs where I still qualified via my years from graduation and low step scores. I would apply to more but I just can't afford to. Part of my problem is that all my medical school electives were surgical in my fourth year. I wish I had come to the realizations I had earlier and had set myself up to more easily match, but there's no going back now. I'm going to try taking step 3 and if I do well I may reapply next year. If not, I'm done and I need to figure out a career. I'm so far out from my Undergrad Biology degree that I may as well be someone who hasn't even gone to college as far as employers see me. It's a terrible situation that I can't see myself getting out of.
 
If you don't match this year (and I sincerely hope that you do), SOAP into anything you can get. Anything. Also, consider adding Peds or Psych programs if you think you could stomach it (and can afford it...which I recognize is an issue).

I don't say this lightly, but a prelim GS year is better than going without yet again. Options from there will be better if you can do well and prove yourself clinically, which you haven't had the chance to do yet.
 
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Other specialties to think about: occ med, prev med, psych, neuro.

Occ med is like the forgotten red-headed stepchild of medicine; it's apparently so undesirable that almost everyone forgets it even exists.

That said, I have a sneaking suspicion there is way more to this story than meets the eye. One step 1 fail in an AMG doesn't usually seem to lead to situations like these.

Also, you say you had 7 interviews one year and 8 interviews the next. Did you go to all these interviews? What happened at the interviews? This is a solid number of interviews for someone with a step 1 fail...on one hand I'm kind of surprised this didn't lead to a match if you went to all of them, but on the other hand...did you do something wrong at these?
 
Couple of thoughts, none of which you'll probably find particularly helpful.

1. You're in a horrible situation and you may not have any good options left that involve medicine. There are some public options such as preventative medicine or MD/MPH program (forget the name but it basically pays low six figures for an MD/MPH to do public health for the government) that may be easier to get into from than an allopathic residency. You also don't state if you limited your applications to certain areas, in which case it's possible you may find something in BFE doing psych or PM&R since it sounds like FM hasn't worked out.

2. You don't mention other members of the family but if you're wife isn't working and you don't have enough kids that childcare is more expensive then what she would bring in then she needs to start working. I appreciate the sense of accomplishment that being the breadwinner provides, but that dream is gone and acting like it's still going to happen is going to compound an already stressful situation. If your marriage breaks under the strain of financial stress or you break under the strain of keeping up appearances, she's going to be thrust back into the job market and it will be easier if she isn't grief stricken when she does.

3. While cross-posting is forbidden, I think it would be useful to med students to read this thread. As you've unfortunately discovered, we work our asses off and sacrifice our youth to have the options of doing what we want later in life. While everyone has different potentials, the steps required to be successful on the boards are pretty well established. They matter more than probably anything else you'd have done thus far in your career. Don't let the fact that it's happening in a scholastic environment make you let down your guard.

My wife can't work. She fell a year and a half ago and injured her dominant arm (no fracture, she had some nerve impingement) to the point where even minimal activity causes pain. It is the cherry on top of my crap sundae.
 
No, in fact I got several people who interviewed me who told me that I handled myself well. One program director told me they matched much higher on their list than they expected to.
 
Thoughts:

1) If a step 1 failure really is your only red flag, don't give up yet.

2) You might be the ideal candidate for Missouri's new program allowing medical school graduates to work as physicians assistants. Have you looked into jobs there? It would be the best possible post-medical school primary care experience for someone who can't get a residency: http://www.wsj.com/articles/missour...ds-to-work-as-assistant-physicians-1405547613

3) Have you looked into Psych and Path? The prospects aren't great but those are the fields that are actually potentially less competitive than FM. Path is arguably a better fit for your surgical interests as well. Even if you give up on FM, I wouldn't give up entirely until you fail a year at applying broadly to low end path programs as well.

4) I hope you are applying to absolutely bottom of the barrel residencies for FM. Like places that only FMGs and IMGs go. I think you could still pull this off but the prospects aren't great for anywhere good.

5) If all else fails, there IS such a thing as a hardship discharge for Student Loans in bankruptcy. It is complicated, almost never applied for, and usually require a lawyers help to achieve, but if you have a disabled wife and no other options you might be able to get out of this situation with no more than a clean financial slate and a really bad credit rating. From what I've read among the extremely small number of people who apply for a hardship student discharge there's about a 50% success rate in obtaining one.
 
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I would really like to find a list of IMG friendly FM programs because I really don't care where I end up for residency, because if I can take this for these three years I can take anything. The PD at my school gave me a couple of programs to apply to, and I know at least a few that I applied to are primarily IMG, but we'll see.
 
You need to add crappy surgical prelims to your application. Before SOAP. You need to apply to every FP program you can (borrow on credit cards, you can't make your financial situation worse and plan on bankruptcy anyway), every psych, etc. get credit, max it, go all in this year and then declare bankruptcy. You should have a 200 program match list before you are done.
 
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You need to apply to all FM programs in the Midwest and South East and in Detroit as well. A lot of people go into FM so that doesn't mean you can just waltz right into any program. Also give us some states I.e Alabama, Missouri, North Carolina and we will pick some programs for you. This way you can save some money. Also you need to apply to like 50 surgery prelims. Don't apply to places around Chicago apply to the South East
 
Yes. Go rural as well. Honestly, I would go for the super rural progs in the Southeast and rural West as well as the super urban sweatshop programs in big cities (particularly NYC, which seems to have a bazillion little hospitals that primarily run on FMG slave labor). It doesn't sound like you've been targeting these programs, but we can likely help you with finding them. Go to the international graduate forum and dig around...you'll likely find lots of them there.
 
@Perrotfish is a sweetheart, good advice

Yes, you should have taken Step 3 right after that first non-match but whatever. I say that for others reading this not to beat you up

You need to pour your heart and soul and rock Step 3 as hard as you possibly can. It will not magically rescue you but you need all the help you can get, it is the only reassurance re: testing you can offer programs now. Not doing well will really really end you. Doing well can't hurt. At least you'll have that done. Have a study plan that will continue past that. I get free medscape emails daily with little quizzes and the latest news.

You had a lack of FM experience, how's that now? Did you get strong FM letters? You need strong recent ones however you can get them!!

If your alma mater was worth a damn they would try to get you into observership/mentoring with the clerkship or the program there even if they weren't going to take you. Some wing or activity to help you keep your resume UTD and a mentor for a LOR. The PD wouldn't take you (some programs are too competitive even if alma mater as I've said) but what can they do to help you? You need to knock on any door with any doc you've ever worked with to try to support you however they can. Your school's alumni organization might be helpful. You need to get with someone to make sure you got letters. String pullers call makers.

Anywhere that you interviewed that liked you (or anywhere you interviewed really) let them know if they get an unexpected opening make the call and you'll be there the next day. If they interviewed you before, then they liked what they saw enough at that time, but yeah, just the passage of time becomes a red flag. ****ing red flags. Anyway, nothing stops you when you're not signed up with the match from contacting those programs with updated stuff, your Step 3, what you've been doing with your life on your resume, cover letter, any new LORs, and new PS. Let them know you haven't matched and you hope they'll keep you in mind if anything opens up.

If you had any classmates you were close with, see if they can put a word in for you. In fact, let all your classmates know your situation in loose terms and if any openings happen keep you in mind or put in a good word.

Anyway, going all in isn't a bad plan, but get in good enough with enough docs to try to have some letters for whatever you apply to. Meaning, if you can get a primary care field FM letter, IM, psych. It's usually not too hard to make friends in those fields. There's even probably a pathologist in this wide world that would take you under the wing. You have to simultaneously cultivate relationships experiences and letters from those fields/docs to apply to more than one field. Getting an intern year somewhere ANYWHERE could lead to more for you later, so any PGY1 will be a good thing for you.

Again, if you can't afford to match you can afford to try to keep your resume up and emails are free.

I'm saying this because I've seen a program have unexpected openings and scramble to find an MD that was just floating free Nov-Jan. Not as easy as you think.

You need the combination of hard work, luck, and program desperation and pity. Someone within the last 3 months had some miracle story of how they finally got another chance, but yeah, it required a lot of vigilancr and networking.
 
I'm not trying to give you false hope, the other MD adjacent careers is what you need to make a living realistically, but coupled with a hefty amount of volunteering keeping you clinically relevant, could at least make it possible to get lucky with a spot somewhere.

Depending what you do you could make yourself the sort of outstanding underdog story to make you an attractive save for a program with a hole sinking the ship.

There was some story of an MD that got involved non-clinically somewhere that was able to make the connections to get plugged in to a program.

It's rough money wise because of your wife. Have any kids? You and the wife may need to look into living out of an RV or a van while you reinvent yourself. You can get lab research experience at a lab somewhere with the bio degree, but like anything, you have to start with going back to school or volunteer stuff. There is a science lab that will put you to work doing SOMETHING even if all they do is have you go in weekends or evening with a post-doc to make solutions.

In a short time a lab can teach you enough basic bench skills to do more.

People want to help you, but you have to ask, and the whole computerized app thing isn't necessarily going to do it.

I hope your wife applies for disability or any other aid. Get a legal divorce if you have to, that can make certain financial things easier for you.

Find out about being a live in elderly caregiver or representative payee. Some people have made a living setting up being a home for elderly/disabled. This could help with housing and financial costs, and be a resume filler. Maybe something your wife could help babysit enough to let you put in some hours in a lab?

Ideas.
 
I don't think anyone here has told you that it's hopeless.

I think I did... or at least I meant to.

@Doctor Bob will do that to you.

That's true :)

But I still think there's more to the story than what we're getting.
If failure of step 1 is the only red flag then there certainly has to be something else that caused an AMG to only get 7 interviews out of 40 apps, then 8 interviews out of 120 apps... in FP of all areas.
As is so often the case either something is being intentionally withheld, or there is something the OP is not aware of (really really bad interviewing skills for example).
Regardless... sure, good luck to you. I don't wish ill on anyone... I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I guess I'm a pessimist. Or perhaps a realist. It's all perspective I suppose.
 
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Just chipping in here after reading through most of the thread:

To the OP, seems like you had a run of crap luck in your efforts to obtain FM residency. In addition to applying to more FM programs in undesirable locations, i also think you should look into DO + MD merger programs. For example, there are DO programs that have now started accepting MD students. Many of these programs are located in BFE type of landscape, but at least gets you in the door.

As many have alluded to here, what went wrong during ur first match season when you had 7+ interviews?
 
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Why do some people keep saying "AOA"? I think only one meant "Alpha Omega Alpha". Is this guy a DO? As others have said, he sounds kind of evasive.

Interesting point.

If OP is a DO and he applied to DO FP programs, then I'm surprised because many of the less competitive DO FP residencies are even more tolerant of a failed step 1 than ACGME progs would be with an MD graduate. I've repeatedly heard of DO PDs (esp in FM) that rank purely on interviews, auditions etc and basically ignore step scores altogether.

If this guy really is a DO, his chances are arguably better than they would be otherwise (unless he's done something crazy like apply to only ACGME progs etc).

The situation also sounds suspiciously osteopathic (I'm a DO, so I can say whatever I want) in that it seems like OP got some really bad/nonexistent career advice...most MD schools would really try to steer you away from going headlong for something like surgery with a failed step 1 etc, some even going to far as to keep you from signing up for all surgery rotations 4th year etc. At DO schools, the advising is so terrible/nonexistent that I could easily see this happening, however. (Although usually in those situations the school really helps people scramble into the plentiful leftover DO spots).

The other question is if this is an American MD who came out of a very competitive school...when your home FM PD openly says 'you have no shot at matching here', that tells me either 1) you're coming from a competitive/douchey place like UCSF where they don't even bother with their own applicants unless they meet their 'standards' or 2) something really, really bad happened when OP was a medical student...like flaming red flag.

I think option 1 is less likely because even a failed step 1 applicant out of UCSF would probably have better luck than he's having.
 
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When I said some programs will only take some of their own and not everyone can be AOA I meant Alpha Omega whatever honors thing that is the acronyms drive me nuts.

When someone mentions AOA merger, they mean American Osteopathic Association, its programs. I don't when it happens or if it already did, but at some point all AOA slots participating in NBME will be open to MD applicants, just as now all ACGME slots are open to DOs (that doesn't mean you can get in, just that you can send the app).
 
Yes, some schools are douchey and don't take their own as a matter of policy, for reals. This wasn't just something I heard through the grapevine or was told just to me, but was an announcement at the start of every clerkship in certain specialties at my school. And something the Dean would regularly say to students at group advising sessions.

Maybe this person didn't have the best strategy, they may have differing degrees of responsibility for that, and it's all hindsight now anyway.

It's fine to say this person likely has little chance at a residency slot, that x y z are the things they can try now with varying degrees of success, and that they would be best served doing something else career wise, if that is what you think and your advice.

Asking if there's any other pertinent info they could share is fine too.

The rest of it, without knowing more, when this poster has shared a very difficult situation, is harmful.

The fact that the OP expressed suicidality, meant all of us as professionals should have addressed them as a suicidal person we didn't want to be named in a nasty med mal suit, if we were incapable of summoning more kindness at the least.

It's not the first time I've seen people be anything other than diplomatic after a poster has expressed they might harm themselves. Move on to another forum to be sadistic if you read that, please. Plenty of people can take it, but let's not dish it out after someone has said "uncle." In fact, the chances that someone having a career meltdown in medicine is considering hurting themselves should be enough warning to tread lightly.

SDN is one of the few places people in healthcare have to go to get advice on certain topics. It's as though none of you were ever in a situation that made you concerned for your career. (I've read the statistics on % of docs that get named in a medmal suit with little merit, and statistics on how much that can affect a doc's mental health, and more objectively, career and finances.)

Point is, maybe some of you can realize, even if that isn't this OP, or you're just "tough enough" even if you've been in a hard professional place or not, related or not, maybe you can imagine a situation that was hard, and your fault or not, how that might feel.

If the OP was your relative how would you like physicians to address them formally or informally after expressing suicidality?

I'm not saying that people on the internet should have carte blanche to whip out the "suicidality" card to control whatever thread, but the OP, no matter who they are or what they've done wrong, if they have an MD they are part of the brotherhood we took an oath to help, and if they tell us they may be a danger to themselves anything less than the discourse we might give a suicidal patient is just low low low.

Maybe they are part of the brotherhood that should not practice clinical medicine for whatever reason. I've seen nothing that they deserve to die.

How do you tell a cigarette smoker that their newly diagnosed cancer is so far spread that they have months to live?

I'm not saying to give false hope, but be careful how you take hope away and how much hope you leave.

The fact that this person was smart and talented and hardworking enough to get an MD, there's not a red flag in the world (except maybe something terribly terribly egregrious and likely not even then) that would make this young married person's suicide anything less than a complete tragedy.

So let's give them the best, non-incriminating advice and encouragement we can.

EDIT: and delivery matters.
 
everyone keeps pointing the OP to programs that are FMG heavy places like the ones in NYC...realize many of those place may 1. not take an AMG seriously in their application and 2. don't really want to train someone...they just need someone to do the work...many of those FMGs have been practicing doctors in their own countries and don't need a lot of clinical training...just the opportunity to do their residency in the US...

sorry, but something doesn't add up...a simple failure on step I doesn't usually keep an AMG from getting interviews or matching...

to the OP...find out if there are any unexpected openings anywhere in anything...email, snail mail, cold call programs and see if there is anything out there...an if there is ANYone...a dean, an attending you worked with, anyone who is willing to stand up for you, now is the time to ask them to stand up for you.

the other is to start over...PA school? NP? CRNA? Ph.D? research?
 
Yes, some schools are douchey and don't take their own as a matter of policy, for reals. This wasn't just something I heard through the grapevine or was told just to me, but was an announcement at the start of every clerkship in certain specialties at my school. And something the Dean would regularly say to students at group advising sessions.

Maybe this person didn't have the best strategy, they may have differing degrees of responsibility for that, and it's all hindsight now anyway.

It's fine to say this person likely has little chance at a residency slot, that x y z are the things they can try now with varying degrees of success, and that they would be best served doing something else career wise, if that is what you think and your advice.

Asking if there's any other pertinent info they could share is fine too.

The rest of it, without knowing more, when this poster has shared a very difficult situation, is harmful.

The fact that the OP expressed suicidality, meant all of us as professionals should have addressed them as a suicidal person we didn't want to be named in a nasty med mal suit, if we were incapable of summoning more kindness at the least.

It's not the first time I've seen people be anything other than diplomatic after a poster has expressed they might harm themselves. Move on to another forum to be sadistic if you read that, please. Plenty of people can take it, but let's not dish it out after someone has said "uncle." In fact, the chances that someone having a career meltdown in medicine is considering hurting themselves should be enough warning to tread lightly.

SDN is one of the few places people in healthcare have to go to get advice on certain topics. It's as though none of you were ever in a situation that made you concerned for your career. (I've read the statistics on % of docs that get named in a medmal suit with little merit, and statistics on how much that can affect a doc's mental health, and more objectively, career and finances.)

Point is, maybe some of you can realize, even if that isn't this OP, or you're just "tough enough" even if you've been in a hard professional place or not, related or not, maybe you can imagine a situation that was hard, and your fault or not, how that might feel.

If the OP was your relative how would you like physicians to address them formally or informally after expressing suicidality?

I'm not saying that people on the internet should have carte blanche to whip out the "suicidality" card to control whatever thread, but the OP, no matter who they are or what they've done wrong, if they have an MD they are part of the brotherhood we took an oath to help, and if they tell us they may be a danger to themselves anything less than the discourse we might give a suicidal patient is just low low low.

Maybe they are part of the brotherhood that should not practice clinical medicine for whatever reason. I've seen nothing that they deserve to die.

How do you tell a cigarette smoker that their newly diagnosed cancer is so far spread that they have months to live?

I'm not saying to give false hope, but be careful how you take hope away and how much hope you leave.

The fact that this person was smart and talented and hardworking enough to get an MD, there's not a red flag in the world (except maybe something terribly terribly egregrious and likely not even then) that would make this young married person's suicide anything less than a complete tragedy.

So let's give them the best, non-incriminating advice and encouragement we can.

EDIT: and delivery matters.

Look dude...when people come on here asking for help and don't want to give details, it's just completely pointless. Every day we come in here and somebody else delivers a sob story with minimal details and a 'request for help'. When people don't want to give details, I'm going to assume the absolute worst. Why? Let me tell you a story...

There was a guy in the class after mine in med school who told his class he was starting a scribe service. He collected money from everyone. Rather than scribe anything, however, this guy took all the money and used it to pay cash for a new Honda. It was a gigantic scandal at our school, and disappointingly the dude wasn't thrown out-they let him finish. He had to pay everyone back. He didn't match, and he didn't deserve to.

Suicidal or not (and I sincerely hope the OP isn't), there are some things that should preclude you from becoming a doctor. Judging from the stuff I see on this board, this usually includes some combination of really bad performance, really bad decision making, really bad criminality, really bad social skills, etc. From experience here I can say that when fewer details are given in the beginning there is almost always some of the stuff listed above in play. OPs situation doesn't make sense in general, so I'm assuming the worst.
 
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