Online MBA list for Physicians

[DrJosephKim]

I'd like to propose that we develop a list of online MBA programs that may be suitable for physicians. To start the list, I'll add a few, including the MBA program suggested by the ACPE which is U Mass Amherst Isenberg School of Business.

Instead of listing all the programs on BusinessWeek, FT.com, and other sites, I'd like to focus on programs that are 100% online (many distance-learning programs require on-campus time, even if it's 10-30%), certified by the AACSB, that offer more flexibility compared to others (since physicians are often so busy), and that can be completed over a period of time that is greater than 2 years.

Online MBA for physicians:

• U Mass Amherst (Isenberg)
• Indiana University (Kelly)
• Thunderbird
• Northeastern
• U Michigan (Not Ross, but Dearborn)
• Suffolk (Sawyer)
• UT Dallas

The next list are good programs based on what I've heard (from people I know, or they offer a focus on pharmaceutical marketing or another aspect of healthcare). They may be 100% online (no residency requirement to visit the campus), but they may have changed their requirements over the past few years. Please don't quote me on the residency requirements. However, they also must be completed within 2 years (so you can't just take 1 course per semester)

• Drexel (LeBow) - campus requirement?
• U Florida (Warrington) - campus requirement?
• St. Joseph's (Haub)

If this topic generates enough interest, perhaps we can make it a sticky?

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[DrJosephKim]

I guess it appear that there is little interest in this topic. Doesn't warrant a sticky. My assumption was incorrect, but now I know.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Gonna throw this out there - SIU-Carbondale has a new online MBA offered. I didn't see a healthcare specialization - it looks like a standard MBA program. But if one has a business goal in mind, it would be appropriate.

A little plug for my alma mater

 

[DrJosephKim]

Gonna throw this out there - SIU-Carbondale has a new online MBA offered. I didn't see a healthcare specialization - it looks like a standard MBA program. But if one has a business goal in mind, it would be appropriate.

A little plug for my alma mater

Is this MBA 100% online or does it require any on-campus time?

 

[radslooking]

I wouldnt say there's a lack of interest, I just don't think this forum gets a lot of traffic. Others would be interested I'm sure, they just don't know where to look. Thanks for the info.

 

[DrJosephKim]

Lack of traffic is true. Well, I'm still doing some additional research on this topic and I will post updates as they come along.

 

[lorain]

the penn state one requires 2 one week "residency".....which is imo a killer, as thats a lot of time for working professional to take off

+ its 49K

 

[DrJosephKim]

I removed Penn State from my list above because of:

The residency experiences are designed to foster valuable student interactions with faculty, business leaders, and other students, while offering students a chance to put their newly acquired knowledge into practice. A set of 2 one-week residency experiences is the only component of the iMBA curriculum not administered online. During these residency sessions you'll share your online group projects with faculty, business professionals, and other students. Through this immediate, practical application of course concepts you can acquire vital decision-making tools to communicate and develop effective strategies across all functional areas of business. Many students unexpectedly gain new and insightful perspectives into their own operations and put what they learn to work in their current firms.

The 2 residency experiences are held at the end of the 3rd and 8th terms of the program. Attendance at the residency experiences is required. The room and board during these on-site experiences are covered by your term charges. You must arrange and pay for your own travel to the residency sites. To review the dates of the iMBA residency experience for the upcoming fall and spring cohorts, visit our course schedule.

 

[lorain]

are these online mba programs all general mbas, or do they allow concentrations/specializtion in health care mgmt?

 

[lorain]

not to bring down the party, but if i recall correctly, the drexel and U florida require multiple visits to campus

 

[DrJosephKim]

These programs continue to change their requirements. I know that the U Mass Amherst MBA can be done 100% online. This is from their website:

• No on-campus visits required - The entire 37-credit degree program can be completed entirely online from anywhere in the world. There is no on-campus residency requirement.
  
• Asynchronous - The courses are structured so that you are not required to be at your computer at a particular time of day or week. Students in the program are from the 50 US States and 15 foreign countries, lending great diversity to the discussions in cases and group assignments.

 

[lorain]

george wasington also has a online mba prog....however, we're talkin like 50 grand tuition

 

[lorain]

i talked to admission advisor at GWU online program...even thou it says 'online health care mba' ...the diploma just says mba....its also 60000 tuition, purely online, but must attend graduation....its not just for mds, nurses and others can be in it also

just fyi

 

[DrJosephKim]

Almost every reputable university that offers an online MBA programs will give you a regular diploma and transcript. Those documents will not indicate that you earned your degree online.

 

[lorain]

They are selling it as 'health care' mba. But the degree just says mba, nothing about it being a 'healthcare' mba. Frankly, 60k for a online mba is ludacrious

 

[Law2Doc]

They are selling it as 'health care' mba. But the degree just says mba, nothing about it being a 'healthcare' mba. Frankly, 60k for a online mba is ludacrious

More than that, unlike an MD or JD or other professional degree, an MBA doesn't qualify you to "do" anything. For this reason, WHERE you get your MBA tends to be much more important than just having one, as compared to professional degrees. Being an MD/DO qualifies you to work as a doctor. Being a JD qualifies you to work as a lawyer. Being an MBA isn't the same animal. An MBA is meant to be an "add on" to enhance existing skills, not to give you a set of new ones. Which is why most of the more prestigious places require folks to already have worked in an industry before attending. So it's not like places are going to say -- this guy has an MBA from someplace, so he's qualified to run our hospital/insurance group/pharmaceutical division/etc. More often they would pay for someone already working there to get an MBA than to hire a "non-brand-name" MBA. (In truth, the majority of top program MBAs are paid for by employers, not individuals). So I probably wouldn't get an MBA just to have one, out of some sense that it makes you more competitive for certain jobs. If you can get into a brand name program, then that may open doors. But online -- I think not, whether it indicates it's an online degree or not.

And more than that, a big big big part of the typical MBA program is the social networking you do. You make contacts in your program that translate to business partners later in your career, and get advice from professors/mentors, who will be writing you LORs for various things down the road. You give up that networking if you do an online program, and honestly, since the program itself is more of a skill enhancer (rather than generating brand new skills), that's the real value of most MBA programs anyhow. It's a very social kind of schooling, and once you give that up, you give up the baby and are logging online for the bathwater. Just my two cents.

 

[lorain]

yea i think the online option is ok as long as you have a legit set of contacts already mapped out

still, i would never pay 60K for a online mba

 

[DrJosephKim]

It can be very difficult to quantify an ROI (return on investment) for an MBA. I know several primary care physicians who significantly increased their salary ranges by graduating from an online MBA program and pursuing careers in the business side of healthcare. If you're a specialist making a generous income, then an MBA may not yield the type of ROI when you compare to a primary care physician.

 

[rysa4]

They are selling it as 'health care' mba. But the degree just says mba, nothing about it being a 'healthcare' mba. Frankly, 60k for a online mba is ludacrious

Don't be fooled! The online MBA I am in ( Happens to be Umass Amherst coincidentally) has the same curriculum as the brick and mortar program ( whose students can take the online classes for their degree FYI) and has the same faculty. The only difference is a personal career development class that runs through most of the in residence program.

The only online healthcare specific MBA that raised my eyebrow was Western Governor's University program, which conceptually was very interesting.

PS: Some of the online MBAs are more than 60K. Remember online MBA and executive MBA are not the same.

 

[michaelrack]

Regis University has an online MBA with a healthcare concentration available http://www.mbaregis.com/online-learning.php

Mississippi State University has a 100% on line MBA, no health care concentration available. I am currently completing the undergrad prerequisites (available 100% online) for the MSU MBA, but haven't decided yet whether to formally enter into the MBA program there. http://www.distance.msstate.edu/mba/

 

[turquoiseblue]

I am an MD and I did my MBA in healthcare management at American Intercontinental University. It is a 10 month online accelerated program with the option of no on-campus activities. Supposedly it is accredited at the same level of Duke, but I could be wrong.

 

[martinparker07]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Before .[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]enrolling in an online university, it would be better to determine whether the university is accredited one or not..

 

[prominence]

I am an MD and I did my MBA in healthcare management at American Intercontinental University. It is a 10 month online accelerated program with the option of no on-campus activities. Supposedly it is accredited at the same level of Duke, but I could be wrong.

how are you planning on using your MBA from AIC?

 

[DrJosephKim]

Also keep in mind that program requirements are constantly evolving. Some programs that were 100% online may require 10% on-campus time starting in 2010. Others may switch to a cohorted model where you're forced to take the same courses each semester and complete your degree in 2-3 years.

Each program is trying to stay competitive, so they're adapting. If you're seriously considering an MBA, attend several open houses (some are "virtual" sessions), ask many questions, and do your research.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Is this MBA 100% online or does it require any on-campus time?

Hi Dr. Kim, sorry for not getting back to you sooner about this.

It appears to be 100% online, as far as the academics are concerned. There is an on-campus orientation at the beginning of the program.

Here's the link to the program.

They also offer an Executive MBA this is not online, located at other locations besides Carbondale.

 

[DrJosephKim]

Online MBA programs are constantly evolving and adapting. Some that are 100% online today may change and only be 80% online in a year.

 

[ohiomed]

Any opinions regarding a new physician without residency experience going on to get a health care MBA? I read the following statement in an article that was concerning...

Seth Garber, MD, a senior consultant with William M. Mercer Inc. in Seattle, often hears from physicians who want to become consultants. Some of them have both MDs and MBAs, he said. The only problem is that they've never practiced medicine and they've never worked in the business world.
"They tell me, 'By virtue of these degrees, I think I'm terrific,' " Dr. Garber said. "I say, 'By virtue of your experience, you have no credibility at all.' "


It seems this may be referring to individuals who have shot for higher level positions without experience (?)

 

[rysa4]

Any opinions regarding a new physician without residency experience going on to get a health care MBA? I read the following statement in an article that was concerning...

Seth Garber, MD, a senior consultant with William M. Mercer Inc. in Seattle, often hears from physicians who want to become consultants. Some of them have both MDs and MBAs, he said. The only problem is that they've never practiced medicine and they've never worked in the business world.
"They tell me, 'By virtue of these degrees, I think I'm terrific,' " Dr. Garber said. "I say, 'By virtue of your experience, you have no credibility at all.' "


It seems this may be referring to individuals who have shot for higher level positions without experience (?)

Well yes, a track record of experience is pretty much par for the course as far as potential employers looking at resumes.

 

[GXR600]

Hi Dr. Kim,

You seem to have done a lot of research on MBA's. Are you talking about MBAs for professional doctors or MBAs for interns/residents?

I am wanting to pursue an MBA during residency - are there such programs?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[markglt]

Dr. kim, i am a 4th year medical student, hoping to match this year.
If i don't match this year, i want to earn an mph or mba online, during my year unmatched.
I have thoughts of either, flordia tech univ. online, or southern columbia univ. online.
I do not want to have to visit the campus or take the gre's or gmat.
can you guide me in the right direction??

 

[bronx43]

Any opinions regarding a new physician without residency experience going on to get a health care MBA? I read the following statement in an article that was concerning...

Seth Garber, MD, a senior consultant with William M. Mercer Inc. in Seattle, often hears from physicians who want to become consultants. Some of them have both MDs and MBAs, he said. The only problem is that they've never practiced medicine and they've never worked in the business world.
"They tell me, 'By virtue of these degrees, I think I'm terrific,' " Dr. Garber said. "I say, 'By virtue of your experience, you have no credibility at all.' "


It seems this may be referring to individuals who have shot for higher level positions without experience (?)

^ This. The only way for a MD to work his way into the business world (finance, consulting, etc) is to apply for an internship (probably at a small-ish firm, since big ones probably won't take the risk on you), hope for an offer, work for a year or so, then apply to a M7 MBA program. Otherwise, you can forget about working at a PE shop or HF on Wall Street - MD skills aren't transferrable like that.

If you want an MD for the purpose of managing your own practice, or getting into hospital administration, then it doesn't really matter where you get your MBA. However, you also have to at least finish residency.

There's no half-assing it, if you want to step foot into the business world.

 

[rysa4]

^ This. The only way for a MD to work his way into the business world (finance, consulting, etc) is to apply for an internship (probably at a small-ish firm, since big ones probably won't take the risk on you), hope for an offer, work for a year or so, then apply to a M7 MBA program. Otherwise, you can forget about working at a PE shop or HF on Wall Street - MD skills aren't transferrable like that.

If you want an MD for the purpose of managing your own practice, or getting into hospital administration, then it doesn't really matter where you get your MBA. However, you also have to at least finish residency.

There's no half-assing it, if you want to step foot into the business world.

Interesting post, but not factually true. I get recruiter calls not infrequently, including regarding publicly traded company positions, in addition, there is a placement program support office at my MBA program that seems to have connections to firms and aids with placement. My program has a stunning 30% physicians in it and some of them including in my current financial analysis class ALREADY are in the positions you are saying they shouldn't be able to get.

 

[bronx43]

Interesting post, but not factually true. I get recruiter calls not infrequently, including regarding publicly traded company positions, in addition, there is a placement program support office at my MBA program that seems to have connections to firms and aids with placement. My program has a stunning 30% physicians in it and some of them including in my current financial analysis class ALREADY are in the positions you are saying they shouldn't be able to get.

I don't exactly understand what you mean, but "publicly traded company positions..." Do you mean corporate jobs? If so, then that's not what I'm referring to. PE shops and HFs usually aren't publicly traded, and I know quite a few ppl in those markets. MDs (medical doctors, not managing directors) are extremely rare at those positions. It simply doesn't make sense for a HF, VC, or PE shop to hire a freshfaced MD/MBA who has no experience in finance.

 

[DrJosephKim]

Dr. kim, i am a 4th year medical student, hoping to match this year.
If i don't match this year, i want to earn an mph or mba online, during my year unmatched.
I have thoughts of either, flordia tech univ. online, or southern columbia univ. online.
I do not want to have to visit the campus or take the gre's or gmat.
can you guide me in the right direction??

Mark - if you don't end up matching, you may wish to look into some one-year programs. This way, you can get a degree (MBA or MPH) in a single year and then move on to residency.

 

[rysa4]

I don't exactly understand what you mean, but "publicly traded company positions..." Do you mean corporate jobs? If so, then that's not what I'm referring to. PE shops and HFs usually aren't publicly traded, and I know quite a few ppl in those markets. MDs (medical doctors, not managing directors) are extremely rare at those positions. It simply doesn't make sense for a HF, VC, or PE shop to hire a freshfaced MD/MBA who has no experience in finance.

I am assuming the following : PE = private equity; VC = venture capital and HF = hedge fund. You didn't define these but that's what I think you mean.

In the MBA program I am in, which is all online, we are all required to post a bio on ourselves at the start of every class, so that everyone gets to know everyone else and their backgrounds. What I am saying is that many of my fellow students are already in companies that specialize in these areas. You are correct that docs are not usually in these positions but folks getting the same training alongside the MBA-docs are. Now whether or not docs in an MBA program are actually looking to move into these type of positions is an entirely different discussion. I'd say mostly not. But could they? Hmmm. Maybe.

 

[markglt]

dr kim, your website is awesome.
do you know of any mba programs online that can be done in a year, fully online?