Official WAMC thread for EM applicants

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DO student.
COMLEX 1: 549
COMLEX 2: 583
PE: Pass on first attempt
Unfortunately did not take USMLE.
Top quartile (don't know exact rank, either top 10% or just under?), all As in third year, Sigma Sigma Phi, lots of ECs, no research. Have been told by my (end-of-) third year EM rotation at a non-program institution that I rotate exceptionally well... so I hope that's true.

Currently doing subspecialty rotation at an EM program.
Auditions at programs until December (four in total).

Plan on applying to mostly DO-friendly/former AOA-now-ACGME programs.

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MD 2018 Here.

Poor step 1: 208
about 3 weeks out from taking Step 2, scores are 232 and 239 on practices. Hoping for mid 240s or low 250s if I get it in gear.

Grades:
2 preclinical honors, rest pass. One remediated course in the summer after 1st year.
Clincal grades are honors in IM, FM, Psych, Surgery. Rest pass. Doing one away and one home rotation, getting one more LOR from non-EM faculty member.

How am I looking? :-/

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
 
Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
Apply very broadly. The low step 1 is going to be a hurdle, but your success in 3rd year may help overcome that. Assuming you do well on your away rotations, and you score in your target range for step 2, you should be able to match somewhere. If you have an EM advisor at your institution look into match rates/locations for previous applicants with similar step scores. I would recommend trying to get a strong letter from EM faculty in addition to the SLOE's - not a make or break piece of the application, but it can only help your chances.
 
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Slight highjack of the thread but I figured its better than making a new one..

What types of applicants are accepted at the most "competitive" EM programs? Seems like board scores aren't valued as highly so is it all about rocking aways/letters and where you get them from? Or do these places put more value on board scores to differentiate than other programs might? Is Step 2 still more valuable than Step 1 if you have a fairly high Step 1 (I've heard EM likes step 2)? I know EM is different than other specialties in the way "top programs" are viewed but I've seen on this forum before the same handful listed as being some of the more well respected programs. Not trying to be a prestige ***** or anything but Carolinas is my dream program for a number of reasons and I've frequently seen it mentioned in this group. A 3rd year so trying to see what I can do from here moving forward. Thanks.
 
Late to the game and facing a dilemma. Currently at the end of a required EM rotation and having serious regrets about going into peds. Not because I don't like peds, I like peds just fine. I took a peds ED rotation that I liked, but found myself kinda missing the higher acuity on the adult side, and I honestly haven't enjoyed a rotation like I do my current EM rotation, and have gotten great evaluations so far. I don't think I would be miserable in pediatrics, but I know that changing my mind now entails extending graduation by a year, but it's not something I want to entertain unless I might actually be competitive for EM, so I'm hoping your input on whether or not I would be competitive. If so, I think I need to have a chat with the dean at my school.

Step 1: 234
Step 2: 252
3rd Year grades: P in peds and Neuro, HP everything else
4th Year grades: FM sub-I - HP, Peds ED HP, Peds Pulm H, EM rotation likely H (with a strong SLOE if I ask for one)
School: Mid-tier USMD in New England
Research: 1 abstract in JACC (w/ poster presentation at ACC/AHA conference), 2 posters at school, 1 clinical research project in the works that hopefully leads to publication
ECs: MMI interviewer 2nd year, Medical mission trip to Dominican Republic 1st year, Some volunteering at free clinics in the area during first two years, Lead in peds interest group, middle school English teacher before med school, ED scribe before med school
 
Late to the game and facing a dilemma. Currently at the end of a required EM rotation and having serious regrets about going into peds. Not because I don't like peds, I like peds just fine. I took a peds ED rotation that I liked, but found myself kinda missing the higher acuity on the adult side, and I honestly haven't enjoyed a rotation like I do my current EM rotation, and have gotten great evaluations so far. I don't think I would be miserable in pediatrics, but I know that changing my mind now entails extending graduation by a year, but it's not something I want to entertain unless I might actually be competitive for EM, so I'm hoping your input on whether or not I would be competitive. If so, I think I need to have a chat with the dean at my school.

Step 1: 234
Step 2: 252
3rd Year grades: P in peds and Neuro, HP everything else
4th Year grades: FM sub-I - HP, Peds ED HP, Peds Pulm H, EM rotation likely H (with a strong SLOE if I ask for one)
School: Mid-tier USMD in New England
Research: 1 abstract in JACC (w/ poster presentation at ACC/AHA conference), 2 posters at school, 1 clinical research project in the works that hopefully leads to publication
ECs: MMI interviewer 2nd year, Medical mission trip to Dominican Republic 1st year, Some volunteering at free clinics in the area during first two years, Lead in peds interest group, middle school English teacher before med school, ED scribe before med school
I'm just another MS4, so take with a grain of salt:

You only need 1 SLOE to start getting interviews from EM programs. It sounds like that won't be an issue, even if it comes out after September 15. How soon can your home program produce this SLOE? Are other EM-bound students taking this rotation with you? If so, hopefully your home institution will be striving to get the SLOE out in time.

If I were you, I would get on VSAS right now and look at what away rotations are available. You can call places tomorrow and ask if they still have spots, if you want, since programs are lazy and frequently don't update their availability on VSAS. Or, you can suck it up and spend the money to apply broadly for an away rotation, knowing that some places you apply to will be full. The benefit of calling is that they get to hear your story...the downside is they might be annoyed. I'm a wimp and would probably not call and risk making a bad impression, personally. The rate limiting step for you is probably the immunization paperwork, which needs to be done before you can apply. Print out the forms and go see a doctor or student health ASAP to get them done. Some of the tests take a week or two to come back, so get started now.

If you commit to scrounging for an Away, any Away, and you commit to spending the money to send an ERAS application to every EM program, you have a decent chance of success, based on your scores and stuff. Applying to every program is not as expensive as you might think, and would beat delaying graduation/delaying your first attending paycheck/losing a year of income.

However, you have to be okay with doing residency at ANY program. If you have geographical ties, or certain places you absolutely would not want to train, taking a year to do Aways properly would be the way to go.

Side note: If you're concerned that you won't match EM, but want to try it this year, you can additionally apply to Peds programs...just make sure to choose Peds programs that aren't at the same institution as the EM programs you're applying to.

The application thread for this year has a spreadsheet of all the EM programs linked in the first comment. Use that as your starting point, and as a way of identifying the programs that don't use VSAS or the Peds programs that don't have an EM program at the same institution.

Final thought: this year, it is possible to get a SLOE from rotations like Peds EM, ultrasound, EMS, wilderness med, etc. This SLOE will be worth less than a traditional SLOE, most likely, but it will help to have, especially if written by EM faculty who don't have a say in your home EM SLOE. Do this in ADDITION to getting a true away SLOE, not instead of.

Hope this helps!
 
Changed the name since I've put enough info on here to identify me over the years.

State school in the South, not considered flagship state medical school.
Pre-clinical: Passed everything, mostly C's.
Clinical: A's in peds/obgyn. B's in the other clerkships.
Step 1: 211
Step 2: TBD

Significantly non-trad, married with kids, worked in ED prior to medical school. Would like to stay at home institution, if possible (school age kids, spouse has a job here). My advisor/dept chair is recommending me have a back-up specialty (probably FM) just in case I don't match. I have applied to 4 away rotations on VSAS and all but one have gotten back to me that they denied my application.

What do I do? What if I don't get an away rotation? Does that kill my chances of EM?

I basically went to med school to be an ER doc, end of story. I know I'm not the most competitive candidate but I don't have any true red flags other than my low Step 1.

Got Step 2 back today. 224.

I was able to get 1 away rotation at a community program. I had no complaints at my home program rotation and would really like to stay. I should have a really good SLOE from home. I imagine I will at my away as well.

Is a back-up necessary? It'll probably be pediatrics if I must. Mainly, because I can do peds EM.

I will be applying to every 3 year program in the South and Midwest except the high tier programs where I have no chance. I think there's 42 programs saved on my ERAS right now.
 
Changed the name since I've put enough info on here to identify me over the years.

State school in the South, not considered flagship state medical school.
Pre-clinical: Passed everything, mostly C's.
Clinical: A's in peds/obgyn. B's in the other clerkships.
Step 1: 211
Step 2: TBD

Significantly non-trad, married with kids, worked in ED prior to medical school. Would like to stay at home institution, if possible (school age kids, spouse has a job here). My advisor/dept chair is recommending me have a back-up specialty (probably FM) just in case I don't match. I have applied to 4 away rotations on VSAS and all but one have gotten back to me that they denied my application.

What do I do? What if I don't get an away rotation? Does that kill my chances of EM?

I basically went to med school to be an ER doc, end of story. I know I'm not the most competitive candidate but I don't have any true red flags other than my low Step 1.

******

Got Step 2 back today. 224.

I was able to get 1 away rotation at a community program. I had no complaints at my home program rotation and would really like to stay. I should have a really good SLOE from home. I imagine I will at my away as well.

Is a back-up necessary? It'll probably be pediatrics if I must. Mainly, because I can do peds EM.

I will be applying to every 3 year program in the South and Midwest except the high tier programs where I have no chance. I think there's 42 programs saved on my ERAS right now.

Applying to more EM programs is the number one thing you can do to improve your chances of scoring more interviews and being on more rank lists. I know it's challenging to break out of a region as a non-trad with a family, but I would strongly encourage you to broaden your geographical restriction before you start thinking about a backup.

The average 2016 US applicant applied to 44.4 programs. The average 2016 US MD applicant (i.e. not a DO) applied to 47, and the average DO applied to 36. These numbers come from here: https://www.aamc.org/download/358770/data/emergencymed.pdf

The chart here: Data and Analysis - AAMC (be sure to select Emergency Medicine from the drop-down menu) shows that 11% of EM residents who matched during the 2014-2015 cycle had Step scores at or below you. (Someone correct me if the math is totally wrong on this - I arrived at this number by finding the cell where 210 to 219 on Step 1 intersects with 220 to 229 on Step 2, then found the sum of that cell plus all the cells to the left and below that cell).

Based on this, I would say that, as a below-average scoring student, you should apply to a very above-average number of programs.

The good news is, 90% of people with Step 1 between 211 and 220 matched in 2016 (180 out of 200). 81% of people with Step 2 between 221 and 230 matched in 2016 (126 out of 154), per Charting Outcomes 2016. It's very very doable!!! But you have to decide which matters to you more: Geography or specialty?

A backup specialty could be something you choose to pursue in addition to applying broadly within EM... But again, I feel strongly that applying to Every EM Program In The Country is the better approach than applying to a below-average number of programs and potentially ending up having to do 6 years of Peds Residency -> Peds EM fellowship. Especially since you may end up having to go out of the region for fellowship anyway.

If you were particularly risk adverse, you could apply to 80+ EM programs, AND backup programs in your desired region, and reevaluate your options later. If you did, a couple things could happen:

  • Possibility A: You end up with 12+ EM interviews in the south! Yay! You spent a little more money than you might have, but at least your chances of matching are great!
  • Possibility B: You end up with 12+ EM interviews, but not all of them are in the south. You also get some Peds interviews in the south. You can now decide whether you want to rank some of the southern peds institutions higher than the non-southern EM programs, or whether you'd be happier in EM in Upstate NY than in Peds in Charleston, SC.
  • Possibility C: You don't end up with 12+ EM interviews, but you have enough Peds interviews that you're likely to match somewhere. You're bummed it didn't work out and that you spent the money, but you know you gave it your best shot - You never have to live with the regret that you didn't apply to enough EM programs.

That's the safest, and most expensive option.


Full disclosure: The AAMC's Apply Smart data indicates that for students with Step 1 scores less than 215, applying to more than around 45 programs did not actually increase their chances of matching: Apply smart in emergency medicine: New data to consider - Careers In Medicine This finding doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and I have to wonder how many data points they had from people who applied to that many places... Logically, more places should yield more interviews. Even if it turns into 1 additional interview for every additional 30 places you apply, that's still 1 more shot at matching! At $26 per program, that's a bargain. You'll easily recoup that additional cost once you're an attending. Not to mention the lost income for 3 years of Peds EM fellowship...

Incidentally, the AAMC's Apply Smart page also state there was a match rate of 74% for students with Step 1 scores under 215, which is lower than what's published in Charting Outcomes, but students have to grant the NRMP permission to publish their data in Charting Outcomes. Additionally, the Charting Outcomes range is "211 to 220," instead of AAMC's "less than 215," so 74% may be closer to your true chances of having a successful match.

I know this is a long post with a lot of doom and gloom, and I'm not trying to make applying more stressful :/ Just wanted to lay out some data so you can avoid having to SOAP or match into another field, since you have such a strong commitment to EM. Hope this helps!
 
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Legitimately low Step 1 (<210). Below average Step 2. Average grades, no red flags, what I believe are good SLOEs. So far, 15 invites and 2 waitlists. Northeast/mid-Atlantic programs, about half in major cities, the rest in small cities/suburbia; and a couple of California surprises that my advisors had told me would not be worth applying to with my scores...

Interestingly, so far not one interviewer (estimating 4-5 interviewers per program, so n~40 at this point) has asked me about my step scores, but a number have mentioned liking my personal statement, which is opposite of what my advisors told me mattered in terms of getting an interview. So my take home is that this process is pretty unpredictable. :laugh:

did you apply to places where you did nott meet stepI cutoff?
 
Apply very broadly. The low step 1 is going to be a hurdle, but your success in 3rd year may help overcome that. Assuming you do well on your away rotations, and you score in your target range for step 2, you should be able to match somewhere. If you have an EM advisor at your institution look into match rates/locations for previous applicants with similar step scores. I would recommend trying to get a strong letter from EM faculty in addition to the SLOE's - not a make or break piece of the application, but it can only help your chances.

Thank you for your response! I hope you're right. I'm definitely planning to apply broadly and was able to get a good EM faculty letter.

I just wanted to post again after receiving my step 2 score today.

Poor step 1: 208
Better step 2, still not exactly what I wanted: 238

Grades:
2 preclinical honors, rest pass. One remediated course in the summer after 1st year.
Clincal grades are honors in IM, FM, Psych, Surgery. Rest pass. Doing two aways and one home rotation.
 
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Step 1: 197
Step II: 239
Comlex: 440
Comlex II: 538
Bumped up quite a bit thankfully.
Clerical grades: on a number scale. B's and C's with a couple A's.
Clinical grades: all A's besides for B's in IM (first rotation of the year)
On my second audition now, I don't know how well I did on my first audition truthfully, worked my ass off but was disoriented at times and wasn't given my schedule until the day I started where I had two Nights in a row, hopefully that sloe isn't bad. Worked really well with some attendings, but I don't think they have input on evaluations.

Applying both aoa and acgme.

From SoCal, schools in NYC.
Would like to be in Ca but know that's a slim chance. Most of my auditions are in ny/Nj. Two aoa, two acgme.

What's the consensus on applying to programs with <200 step I cutoff if you've improved 40 points like me?


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We're essentially identical for stats but you have better overall grades. How many are you applying to?

Was thinking 65-70. I feel like there's no threshold for overkill given the step 1 score. You?
 
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Current MS4
School Rank: Top 25 MD
Quartile: 4th (Bottom)
Step 1: 239
Step 2: 239 (lol accurate and precise)
Clinical grades: NH (near honors) IM, FM, Neuro, Psych. HP in Surg. H in Peds.
Research: 2 pubs (2nd and 3rd) 2 poster presentations at a national conference and school research day, 2 abstracts. 1 year of research experience from my masters degree with thesis/dissertation published at schools journal. Will be doing EM research around interview season.
Home is P (school is P/F only) with top 1/3-top 10% marks. On my first away right now, should get a strong sloe from here (top 10 SDN program). 2nd away at CMC in Nov-Dec.

WAMC and how many should I apply to?
WAMC for school like Indy, Carolinas, etc?
 
Last edited:
Current MS4
School Rank: Top 25 MD
Quartile: 4th (Bottom)
Step 1: 239
Step 2: 239 (lol accurate and precise)
Clinical grades: NH (near honors) IM, FM, Neuro, Psych. HP in Surg. H in Peds.
Research: 2 pubs (2nd and 3rd) 2 poster presentations at a national conference and school research day, 2 abstracts. 1 year of research experience from my masters degree with thesis/dissertation published at schools journal. Will be doing EM research around interview season.

WAMC and how many should I apply to?
WAMC for school like Indy, Carolinas, etc?
SLOEs/aways?
 
Current MS4
School Rank: Top 25 MD
Quartile: 4th (Bottom)
Step 1: 239
Step 2: 239 (lol accurate and precise)
Clinical grades: NH (near honors) IM, FM, Neuro, Psych. HP in Surg. H in Peds.
Research: 2 pubs (2nd and 3rd) 2 poster presentations at a national conference and school research day, 2 abstracts. 1 year of research experience from my masters degree with thesis/dissertation published at schools journal. Will be doing EM research around interview season.
Home is P (school is P/F only) with top 1/3-top 10% marks. On my first away right now, should get a strong sloe from here (top 10 SDN program). 2nd away at CMC in Nov-Dec.

WAMC and how many should I apply to?
WAMC for school like Indy, Carolinas, etc?

I don't see why you should have any trouble matching based on the advice I've gotten (fellow MS4 here). If you apply to the average 30 programs and SLOEs are what you think you'll be fine. Don't see why you wouldn't get a couple interviews at Indy etc. If SLOE is great either. The scariest part of your app is that you're bottom 4th of your class with those grades and scores!
 
I don't see why you should have any trouble matching based on the advice I've gotten (fellow MS4 here). If you apply to the average 30 programs and SLOEs are what you think you'll be fine. Don't see why you wouldn't get a couple interviews at Indy etc. If SLOE is great either. The scariest part of your app is that you're bottom 4th of your class with those grades and scores!

Yeah our school doesnt curve honors to only 10-15%. its H if you're above a certain score (91, 93, etc..). My concern was that my PDs kept saying that schools like Indy and CMC only interview 250s, AOAs, etc and that I would be screened out... I'm applying to 50-55 because of that quartile and low(er than avg CK).
 
Yeah our school doesnt curve honors to only 10-15%. its H if you're above a certain score (91, 93, etc..). My concern was that my PDs kept saying that schools like Indy and CMC only interview 250s, AOAs, etc and that I would be screened out... I'm applying to 50-55 because of that quartile and low(er than avg CK).

Of you look at last year's rank list thread you can tell thats not the case. Plenty of people got interviews all over (including indy etc.) without AoA or 250s.
 
Of you look at last year's rank list thread you can tell thats not the case. Plenty of people got interviews all over (including indy etc.) without AoA or 250s.
Yeah I perused both the application and ROL thread. Didnt find a whole lot of people with my stats mentioning carolinas, but a few mentioned indy, denver, cincy, etc..
Fingers are crossed lol.
 
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Current OMS4
School Rank: Bottom Tier DO
Quartile: 4th (Bottom)
COMLEX 1: 524
COMLEX 2 CE: 545
COMLEX 2 PE: Pending, Expect Pass
No Red Flags
Clinical grades: High Pass-IM, Peds, Psych, Surgery; Honors: FM, EM X2, Anesthesia, OB/GYN
Research: Poster Presentation at State Conference and school research day, local presentation.
Leadership: EM Club president, Served on local disaster drill committee
Background: Non-Trad, 15 years in EMS, serve on Federal DMAT.
LORs: 1 strong traditional LOR, 2 SLOES-1 probably strong, 1 possible dud (but scored 90/100 on school evaluation), 1 pending from Oct Audition
Aways: 1 at local residency, 2 out of state at programs who have taken students from my school before. All AOA programs, 2 have ACGME pending, one just moved over.

Looking at AOA programs, primarily South/Southeast, 1 state ACGME program that takes COMLEX and students from my school.
 
Hey everyone, long time lurker wanted to get an idea of how my application looks.
Osteopathic student in the Philly region
All HP and H 3rd year
COMLEX 1 560s
COMLEX 2 640s
No step 1
Step 2 245

Two auditions done already at past AOA programs with honors and SLOEs coming. 2 more local auditions set up for the next two months.

Will not having a step 1 kill ACGME for me? I was hoping having step 2 will help.
 
Hey everyone, long time lurker wanted to get an idea of how my application looks.
Osteopathic student in the Philly region
All HP and H 3rd year
COMLEX 1 560s
COMLEX 2 640s
No step 1
Step 2 245

Two auditions done already at past AOA programs with honors and SLOEs coming. 2 more local auditions set up for the next two months.

Will not having a step 1 kill ACGME for me? I was hoping having step 2 will help.

Not at all. You should have no problem matching if your SLOEs are good.
 
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250+ step 1 / 260+ step 2
3 SLOEs: 1 excellent 2 average
Mix of HP and P on clinicals. H, H, HP on EM rotations
Low SVI (<5th percentile)
Failed PBL and an SP exam that show up on my transcripts

How screwed am I? How many programs should I apply to?
I would think that you're golden still....probably 25-35 programs max.
 
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Current MS4
School Rank: Average MD in the southeast
Quartile: 4th (Bottom)
Step 1: 207
Step 2CK: 218
Step 2CS: 1st time Pass
No Red Flags (except obvious subpar Step scores)

Clinical grades: High Pass-IM, Peds, OB-Gyn, Surgery; Honors: Family, Psych, Neuro
Research: 4 publications from bench research M1/M2 year. 2 poster presentation case reports from M3 year. Bench research is only remotely clinically relevant but not necessarily specialty specific although one of my research mentors is an EM attending.
Leadership: EM Club VP, Teach local Boy Scout Disaster Preparedness badge. Certified PADI Rescue Diver

LORs: 1 strong traditional LOR, 2 strong SLOES w/ one being top 10% and the other being either being top 10% or top ⅓. I have one more away but its later in the semester so I expect another good SLOE but am unsure how helpful it will be due to timing.

Aways: 1 at home program. I’ve completed one away at a program without Step score cutoffs. Still one away left later in the semester. All established ACGME programs.

I was initially planning on doing family but was really blown away by my EM rotation during M3 year and then did not enjoy my family rotation at all. I loved the higher acuity and the critical care time along with the faster pace. I also like working with my hands and really enjoyed the procedures EM had to offer.

Do I even stand a chance to attempt EM or should I just switch back to family? I’ve already submitted ERAS and applied to 80 programs. I feel like I’m also a good fit personality-wise for the speciality and have gotten great feedback on my rotations in the ED.
 
Which program was that btw?

I don't think this poster is going to volunteer that information, since it would make them identifiable.

If you're just interested in seeing which programs out there don't have a Step cut-off, go here and click More Filters -> Step 1 Cut Off. Fair warning, the information on this site is not always 100% up to date, but it's still a great resource.

EMRA Match
 
Current MS4
School Rank: Average MD in the southeast
Quartile: 4th (Bottom)
Step 1: 207
Step 2CK: 218
Step 2CS: 1st time Pass
No Red Flags (except obvious subpar Step scores)

Clinical grades: High Pass-IM, Peds, OB-Gyn, Surgery; Honors: Family, Psych, Neuro
Research: 4 publications from bench research M1/M2 year. 2 poster presentation case reports from M3 year. Bench research is only remotely clinically relevant but not necessarily specialty specific although one of my research mentors is an EM attending.
Leadership: EM Club VP, Teach local Boy Scout Disaster Preparedness badge. Certified PADI Rescue Diver

LORs: 1 strong traditional LOR, 2 strong SLOES w/ one being top 10% and the other being either being top 10% or top ⅓. I have one more away but its later in the semester so I expect another good SLOE but am unsure how helpful it will be due to timing.

Aways: 1 at home program. I’ve completed one away at a program without Step score cutoffs. Still one away left later in the semester. All established ACGME programs.

I was initially planning on doing family but was really blown away by my EM rotation during M3 year and then did not enjoy my family rotation at all. I loved the higher acuity and the critical care time along with the faster pace. I also like working with my hands and really enjoyed the procedures EM had to offer.

Do I even stand a chance to attempt EM or should I just switch back to family? I’ve already submitted ERAS and applied to 80 programs. I feel like I’m also a good fit personality-wise for the speciality and have gotten great feedback on my rotations in the ED.


(Disclaimer: I'm an MS4 too.)

You were wise to apply so broadly! It's obvious from your SLOEs that you have a lot to offer, despite your Step scores, and I'm hopeful you'll get some attention.

If I were in your shoes, I would add more EM programs, just based on the data in the AAMC Step 1+2 matrix, which puts you at the bottom 3.2% of Step scores among EM residents who matched in March 2015: Data and Analysis - AAMC (Select Emergency from the drop-down menu, find the cell at the intersection of 207 on Step 1 and 218 on Step 2, add up the percentages shown in all the cells that are to the left and below that cell). Sorry, I know those numbers aren't comforting...

Overall, Charting Outcomes doesn't give you the most favorable odds in the world. Applying to more EM programs might help. A discreet Family Medicine backup strategy (by "discreet" I mean applying to FM programs at institutions that don't also have EM programs) is probably wise, just to avoid the risk of SOAPing. Alternately, Peds -> Peds EM is worth thinking about, if you're so inclined.

Oh, and how did you do on the SVI? I know, I know, we all hate it and the general consensus is to ignore bad scores, but if you did well, maybe that will help you stand out from the pack of people with lower Step scores and a PD will take a chance on you.

The average EM applicant in the ERAS 2017 cycle (2016-2017) from a US MD school applied to 49.1 programs (data taken from here: https://www.aamc.org/download/358760/data/residency.xlsx). Reevaluate the list of programs you didn't apply to. If there are any programs on there that you would rather match to than face SOAP/rather match to than go into Family, add them (unless they're totally unrealistic Reach programs, like California or Denver or something). Throw money at it - You'll earn it back on the other end. Send me your list of programs if you want another pair of eyes. And be on the lookout for new programs getting added to ERAS. I heard that Wellstar Kennestone Hospital in Georgia just got accredited to take 12 EM residents this year, and they haven't hit ERAS yet.

Good luck!
 
(Disclaimer: I'm an MS4 too.)

You were wise to apply so broadly! It's obvious from your SLOEs that you have a lot to offer, despite your Step scores, and I'm hopeful you'll get some attention.

If I were in your shoes, I would add more EM programs, just based on the data in the AAMC Step 1+2 matrix, which puts you at the bottom 3.2% of Step scores among EM residents who matched in March 2015: (Select Emergency from the drop-down menu, find the cell at the intersection of 207 on Step 1 and 218 on Step 2, add up the percentages shown in all the cells that are to the left and below that cell). Sorry, I know those numbers aren't comforting...

Overall, Charting Outcomes doesn't give you the most favorable odds in the world. Applying to more EM programs might help. A discreet Family Medicine backup strategy (by "discreet" I mean applying to FM programs at institutions that don't also have EM programs) is probably wise, just to avoid the risk of SOAPing. Alternately, Peds -> Peds EM is worth thinking about, if you're so inclined.

Oh, and how did you do on the SVI? I know, I know, we all hate it and the general consensus is to ignore bad scores, but if you did well, maybe that will help you stand out from the pack of people with lower Step scores and a PD will take a chance on you.

The average EM applicant in the ERAS 2017 cycle (2016-2017) from a US MD school applied to 49.1 programs. the list of programs you didn't apply to. If there are any programs on there that you would rather match to than face SOAP/rather match to than go into Family, add them (unless they're totally unrealistic Reach programs, like California or Denver or something). Throw money at it - You'll earn it back on the other end. Send me your list of programs if you want another pair of eyes. And be on the lookout for new programs getting added to ERAS. I heard that Wellstar Kennestone Hospital in Georgia just got accredited to take 12 EM residents this year, and they haven't hit ERAS yet.

Good luck!

Thanks for your helpful response! I had a lot of the same thoughts you did about the best way to proceed. I had actually already added several more programs before your response.

I know the odds are stacked against me but I'm jusy going to give it my best shot and hope for the best for EM. I also got all my LORs for my FM application and sent out 10 applications to programs that I should be competitive at. One of which is where one of my LOR writers is from so I feel very confident with my app there.

I'm just really disappointed with myself. I didn't expect to do well on step 1 but for CK I had really put in the time and had 3 practice test scores over 235 in the month leading up to my exam so I was pretty shocked when I saw my score.

Also SVI score was 24 so it was pretty good but I just really don't think PDs are going to pay it any attention this year. Which I agree with as it's a pretty BS metric to judge applicants by.
 
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I'm wondering if I should apply more broadly to middle-of-nowhere programs. I'm from the west coast, go to school in Philly, and applied to almost all west coast programs (including Arizona, Utah, Nevada, NM) as well as major urban areas (NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc.), but tended to avoid new programs.

I only have 1 SLOE at the moment and will have another by mid-October (both at home institution affiliates with EM residencies), and am doing a west coast away next month. My biggest concern is that my 1st SLOE is gonna be average or below - when I had my final feedback session I was specifically told my SLOE "will be fine". It was my first EM rotation and was rotating with students who were all on their 2nd or 3rd. I also have a LOR from a non-EM rotation.

Step 1: 254
Step 2: 262
Middle of the class rank at MD school
Only honored neurology on third year clerkships but scored high on all the shelfs (which are completely separate from our grades)
HP on EM clerkship
23 on SVI
 
I'm wondering if I should apply more broadly to middle-of-nowhere programs. I'm from the west coast, go to school in Philly, and applied to almost all west coast programs (including Arizona, Utah, Nevada, NM) as well as major urban areas (NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc.), but tended to avoid new programs.

I only have 1 SLOE at the moment and will have another by mid-October (both at home institution affiliates with EM residencies), and am doing a west coast away next month. My biggest concern is that my 1st SLOE is gonna be average or below - when I had my final feedback session I was specifically told my SLOE "will be fine". It was my first EM rotation and was rotating with students who were all on their 2nd or 3rd. I also have a LOR from a non-EM rotation.

Step 1: 254
Step 2: 262
Middle of the class rank at MD school
Only honored neurology on third year clerkships but scored high on all the shelfs (which are completely separate from our grades)
HP on EM clerkship
23 on SVI

How many programs did you actually apply to? How many west coast/competitive programs vs not-as-absurdly competitive ones? Do your shelf scores show up on your MSPE along with a score distribution that shows how you did relative to your classmates?

My stance is "it's only money" - adding more applications might reduce your stress load a bit. But from a numbers perspective, I don't think you'll struggle except perhaps at the west coast/more selective programs.
 
I'm wondering if I should apply more broadly to middle-of-nowhere programs. I'm from the west coast, go to school in Philly, and applied to almost all west coast programs (including Arizona, Utah, Nevada, NM) as well as major urban areas (NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc.), but tended to avoid new programs.

I only have 1 SLOE at the moment and will have another by mid-October (both at home institution affiliates with EM residencies), and am doing a west coast away next month. My biggest concern is that my 1st SLOE is gonna be average or below - when I had my final feedback session I was specifically told my SLOE "will be fine". It was my first EM rotation and was rotating with students who were all on their 2nd or 3rd. I also have a LOR from a non-EM rotation.

Step 1: 254
Step 2: 262
Middle of the class rank at MD school
Only honored neurology on third year clerkships but scored high on all the shelfs (which are completely separate from our grades)
HP on EM clerkship
23 on SVI

Please take a look at the charting the outcomes of the match PDF again....your boards are fantastic and you'll have three aways. A lot of places really are looking for improvement in your SLOEs and don't expect you to be a superstar on your first away. Polish up for your next ones and try to relax a bit.

It sounds like you're pretty particular about geography on your list...do you really want to go to the 'middle of nowhere' to train? Those programs are fantastic as well and would probably be able to see through any feigned attempt at genuine interest. I think it would be wasting money, time, and resources, but that's just my impression.
 
How many programs did you actually apply to? How many west coast/competitive programs vs not-as-absurdly competitive ones? Do your shelf scores show up on your MSPE along with a score distribution that shows how you did relative to your classmates?

My stance is "it's only money" - adding more applications might reduce your stress load a bit. But from a numbers perspective, I don't think you'll struggle except perhaps at the west coast/more selective programs.

I applied to 45 but I'm not sure the best way to tell what programs are "absurdly competitive" vs what's a safety - my advisors haven't been much help there. Is there such thing as a safety on the west coast?

My shelf scores & distribution will show up on the MSPE- unfortunately my school curves and only shows their own scoring system. For example, I scored >90th percentile on all the shelfs except surgery, but my friend who scored in the 80-85th percentile range received the same grade as me on some of the exams due to our weird curving system, so I don't think my shelf grades will matter much.
 
I applied to 45 but I'm not sure the best way to tell what programs are "absurdly competitive" vs what's a safety - my advisors haven't been much help there. Is there such thing as a safety on the west coast?

My shelf scores & distribution will show up on the MSPE- unfortunately my school curves and only shows their own scoring system. For example, I scored >90th percentile on all the shelfs except surgery, but my friend who scored in the 80-85th percentile range received the same grade as me on some of the exams due to our weird curving system, so I don't think my shelf grades will matter much.

LAC, Highland, UCSF, Harbor UCLA are more competitive than Kern, Desert Regional, Riverside, Loma Linda. Pretty easy. I really don't think there is any such thing as a safety besides a home rotation where you know the people really well (i.e. years) and they are going to rank you highly.
 
I applied to 45 but I'm not sure the best way to tell what programs are "absurdly competitive" vs what's a safety - my advisors haven't been much help there. Is there such thing as a safety on the west coast?

My shelf scores & distribution will show up on the MSPE- unfortunately my school curves and only shows their own scoring system. For example, I scored >90th percentile on all the shelfs except surgery, but my friend who scored in the 80-85th percentile range received the same grade as me on some of the exams due to our weird curving system, so I don't think my shelf grades will matter much.

I don't think there's such a thing as a safety school on the west coast, and I don't know if your west coast Away is early enough for programs to care (after all, they won't hear about it 'til they get the SLOE, which will likely be in November) - But if you listed your permanent address in the west coast, that should help.

I've got a reputation for being a pretty risk-averse applicant but even I think at 45 programs, you've covered enough ground that you'll match. If that SLOE has you very frightened, you can certainly add more, but I think you're pretty unlikely to struggle to get interviews.
 
Chances Please:

US MD Step 1: 212 Passed all classes first two years Took year off between 2nd and third for medical reasons Third year so far: 3 Passes (medicine, peds, neuro), 1 HP (psych) Research: 2 posters (1 related to EM)
 
Chances Please:

US MD Step 1: 212 Passed all classes first two years Took year off between 2nd and third for medical reasons Third year so far: 3 Passes (medicine, peds, neuro), 1 HP (psych) Research: 2 posters (1 related to EM)

You are fighting an uphill battle. It’s not impossible. But you were going to have to improve step on step 2 and get two solid sloes. The fact that your clinical grades are mostly ‘pass’ would predict more ‘middle 1/3’ or lower sloes, and If that is the case, I think you could run into problems matching. However, if you do really well on your EM clerkships and get top 1/3 or above sloes, I think you’ll have a chance.
 
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You are fighting an uphill battle. It’s not impossible. But you were going to have to improve step on step 2 and get two solid sloes. The fact that your clinical grades are mostly ‘pass’ would predict more ‘middle 1/3’ or lower sloes, and If that is the case, I think you could run into problems matching. However, if you do really well on your EM clerkships and get top 1/3 or above sloes, I think you’ll have a chance.

Thank you for the response! Would you recommend applying to IM or FM as a back-up?
 
You are fighting an uphill battle. It’s not impossible. But you were going to have to improve step on step 2 and get two solid sloes. The fact that your clinical grades are mostly ‘pass’ would predict more ‘middle 1/3’ or lower sloes, and If that is the case, I think you could run into problems matching. However, if you do really well on your EM clerkships and get top 1/3 or above sloes, I think you’ll have a chance.

How much do you think it matters on how many H/HP a school gives out? For instance, my medical school only gives 12 H/24 HP for a class of ~120 (10%, 20%, respectively). Do you weigh this against some schools that give 60% H for their students?
 
How much do you think it matters on how many H/HP a school gives out? For instance, my medical school only gives 12 H/24 HP for a class of ~120 (10%, 20%, respectively). Do you weigh this against some schools that give 60% H for their students?
The hope is program directors look at the Dean's Letter which shows how many people get different grades in a given class. I'd guess it varies from person to person who actually looks at this distinction...
 
Thank you for the response! Would you recommend applying to IM or FM as a back-up?

Depends on what you want out of a backup career. Personally, I would do IM because I’d do a CC fellowship and just be an ICU doc. But, FP is more applicable if you plan to work in an underserved ED or urgent care.
 
How much do you think it matters on how many H/HP a school gives out? For instance, my medical school only gives 12 H/24 HP for a class of ~120 (10%, 20%, respectively). Do you weigh this against some schools that give 60% H for their students?

Yes and no. I mean, its considered, but I dont put a lot of weight in how people do on their rotations anyways to be honest. I read the comments looking for red flags, and the grades factor in a little, but ED grades/SLOEs are way more important to me than how someone performed on their psych rotation. As for grade distribution on the SLOEs, this is definitely taken into consideration.
 
Yea, the majority of my class gets P for third year so it seems kinda unfair since people think I'm not putting in the work for honors when only 10% get it.
 
Yes and no. I mean, its considered, but I dont put a lot of weight in how people do on their rotations anyways to be honest. I read the comments looking for red flags, and the grades factor in a little, but ED grades/SLOEs are way more important to me than how someone performed on their psych rotation. As for grade distribution on the SLOEs, this is definitely taken into consideration.

That makes sense. And I can totally vouch about this from an applican’t perspective as well. I had 4 HPs in 3rd with 3 SLOE “Honors” and a horrific Step I with a good Step 2 CK. No interviewer has asked about my Step I, but only cared about my SLOEs across the country. SLOEs can make or break your application to EM.
 
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Current M3 trying to figure out how to most strategically schedule 4th year
  • Mid-tier East Coast MD school.
  • Preclinicals: Mostly pass, 1-2 HP/H sprinkled in there, not sure where I rank in my class but probably near the middle
  • Clinicals: Honors in surgery and neuro, HP medicine, excellent evals
  • Step 1: 234
  • Variety of extracurriculars/leadership, did research during my masters program but none during med school
I'm from Southern California and would like to at least try to match back in CA (that being said, I'd be happy staying on the East Coast too...I'm not banking on California with my scores haha) I am planning on taking CS and CK in July and doing an EM sub-I at my home institution in August. My understanding is that my best bet would be to apply for aways in CA for September and October.
I have been getting really positive feedback on my rotations but I don't have the opportunity to do an EM elective this year, so I'm worried that I won't know enough to look good (or at least not idiotic) on my auditions. Assuming I can get decent SLOEs, would 2 west coast audition rotations and 1 home rotation be sufficient? (This is of course also assuming I'll be accepted for away rotations...also something I'd like to know more about.)
 
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