Official WAMC thread for EM applicants

[gamerEMdoc]

At my institution, our EM advisor seems to only take on people who they think can match. That said, this person has been engaging with me, which I am happy about.

We haven't fleshed out which programs to apply to and where to do aways because I am doing my MBA right now. I'll do my away rotation in summer 2018. I'm limited to one away rotation right now because of the discipline that has been levied.

I'm personally torn between doing an away at a middle tier academic program with enough of a reputation for a good reach with the SLOE (Stony Brook, Monte) and a community program (Conemaugh, John Peter Smith, Good Sam Long Island) to really show who I am to a community hospital that I would be happy at.




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I think you're probably overthinking where to schedule you're away rotation personally. Do it wherever it's going to be one of your top choices to end up if possible.

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[SpacemanSpifff]

I'm personally torn between doing an away at a middle tier academic program with enough of a reputation for a good reach with the SLOE (Stony Brook, Monte) and a community program (Conemaugh, John Peter Smith, Good Sam Long Island) to really show who I am to a community hospital that I would be happy at.

I think you're probably overthinking where to schedule you're away rotation personally. Do it wherever it's going to be one of your top choices to end up if possible.

Absolutely agree. Your away should not be something you see as a stepping stone to something else. Go where you think you want to end up (admittedly tough to say at this point in your training), because in the end this gives you the best info (do you love it or not?) and the best chance at ending up there.

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

Absolutely agree. Your away should not be something you see as a stepping stone to something else. Go where you think you want to end up (admittedly tough to say at this point in your training), because in the end this gives you the best info (do you love it or not?) and the best chance at ending up there.

Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I should clarify, I did not mean to suggest a SLOE from one program could be used as a stepping stone for another - what I had meant was - especially given the predicament I find myself in with a red flag - that suppose I do my away with a program at which I may be edged out by other applicants who don't have red flags - should my SLOE still be coming from a program that has a reputable name so that the SLOE may hold weight with other programs not in the geographic area - for example, a SLOE from St. John Riverside Hospital vs. a SLOE from Stony Brook University, holding weight at UPMC, Allegheny, Conemaugh, which are in Western PA.

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I should clarify, I did not mean to suggest a SLOE from one program could be used as a stepping stone for another - what I had meant was - especially given the predicament I find myself in with a red flag - that suppose I do my away with a program at which I may be edged out by other applicants who don't have red flags - should my SLOE still be coming from a program that has a reputable name so that the SLOE may hold weight with other programs not in the geographic area - for example, a SLOE from St. John Riverside Hospital vs. a SLOE from Stony Brook University, holding weight at UPMC, Allegheny, Conemaugh, which are in Western PA.

If you want to do community EM in the east/northeast, there are a ton of programs available to you. You wouldn't need to worry about the name on your SLOE. I have a hard time believing that you would be turned away at western PA programs simply due to the place you rotated at -- assuming you do well, that is. If you want to go the academic route, it's likely better to do an away at the ivory tower.

As @gamerEMdoc said, don't overthink it. Maybe the most important thing is that you rotate at a place where you could see yourself working at for the next 3-4 years.

 

[nm825]

I just got STEP back, and didn't do nearly as well as I anticipated- 234. I know the average last year was a 233, so I am going to be right around average when I apply in a year.

I go to a top 40 school in SoCal. Have a couple of EM-related research projects going on. Obviously, I need to do well on Step 2/clinical scores.

Is there some type of resource that can help give me an idea of what type of EM programs I'm competitive for?

Honestly, less concerned about name, and much more concerned about my SO finding a job in a major city. With my 234, my hopes have dimmed at matching in Southern California, but can I still be competitive for residencies in cities like Chicago, Philadelphia, Kansas City, etc.?

 

[Fetor Hepaticus]

I am a US citizen IMG graduated in 2013 and just finished my Internal Medicine Residency; currently board eligible and preparing for my exam in August. I am applying EM residency for July 2018 entering class...

2011 Step 1: 210
2012 Step 2 CK: 219
2012 Step 2 CS: Pass
2015 Step 3: Fail, 200
Have ATLS, State License, DEA, etc
Will be able to get 2-3 SLOR and 1 LOR from my IM program director

Have 2 locum assignments lined up: one as hospitalist and another as emergency physician with Indian Health Service; both will be mentioned in MyERAS application.

What else can I do to improve my change? Or do I even have a chance at all? Thank you.

 

[BoardingDoc]

This post is better served in the sticky WAMC thread here: Official WAMC thread for EM applicants

 

[tenfootsilence]

This post is better served in the sticky WAMC thread here: Official WAMC thread for EM applicants

I am a US citizen IMG graduated in 2013 and just finished my Internal Medicine Residency; currently board eligible and preparing for my exam in August. I am applying EM residency for July 2018 entering class...

2011 Step 1: 210
2012 Step 2 CK: 219
2012 Step 2 CS: Pass
2015 Step 3: Fail, 200
Have ATLS, State License, DEA, etc
Will be able to get 2-3 SLOR and 1 LOR from my IM program director

Have 2 locum assignments lined up: one as hospitalist and another as emergency physician with Indian Health Service; both will be mentioned in MyERAS application.

What else can I do to improve my change? Or do I even have a chance at all? Thank you.

I mean no offense, and hope this can be taken in the right way.... but it sounds like your going from one crappy specialty to another slightly less crappy specialty that pays more but with an abundance of extra training. Dont get me wrong, EM has its perks (no call, decent pay, cool procedures). But If I were you, I would get your IM boards and work as an IM doc in the ED for a year to be sure it is what you want to do. Its not as glorious as it seems..... who knows.... after all that you may end up wanting to specialize in something instead, like cards or GI.

 

[BoardingDoc]

I mean no offense, and hope this can be taken in the right way.... but it sounds like your going from one crappy specialty to another slightly less crappy specialty

Ahh, the "no offense" strategy to being insulting.

Internal medicine? Totally sucks. This thread you're posting on full of emergency medicine docs? That field sucks too. No offense.

 

[Red Husky]

According to ERAS, SLOEs should be attached to the ERAS letter request form:

The program directors group in Emergency Medicine has introduced a new standard letter of recommendation form for applicants applying in Emergency Medicine. This form needs to be attached to the printed ERAS Letter Request Form. Also, you will need to carefully add the ERAS Letter ID from the ERAS Letter Request Form to your Emergency Residency Recommendation Form before submitting it to the letter author.

Anybody knows how to do this?

 

[doctoroxygen]

Neither of my rotations has asked for that in their instructions, so I'm pretty sure they don't need it.


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[Red Husky]

I am getting individual SLOEs. Maybe group SLOEs are different.

Neither of my rotations has asked for that in their instructions, so I'm pretty sure they don't need it.


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[emergencywv]

Need some opinions, hopefully someone who was in my position can help me out.

DO Student
Step 1 222
Step 2 251

From midwest, would like to stay midwest (Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan)

I wanted to apply ACGME EM but backed away after my step 1 score. Now, with my miraculous increase in step 2, I'm reconsidering.

I only have two AOA rotations scheduled before September 15. So no acgme SLOEs.

Do I have a shot?

 

[DoctorS_]

DO student (new third year)
COMLEX 1 470s
1 first author case report in EM journal
Average to below average preclinical grades
From Northeast, would like to stay northeast

Do I have a chance for EM or should I start looking at other specialties?

 

[EMapps2017]

MD midwest, aways on coasts.
Step 1 236, Step 2 263
2nd quartile, HP avg 3rd year with H in surgery and medicine
Several abstracts in different things, 1 pub going through revisions. Consistent medical and non-medical volunteering.
EM group leader. ER Tech and waiter before school.
Will have 1 (supposedly strong) SLOE by October 1st with 2 non-EM letters. 2nd SLOE should be in by mid/late October. Have a 2nd away that I can request to send SLOE to places I've interviewed.

How many apps should I send? Interested in TX, CA (none of the big 4 yr places), AZ, FL, IL, MO, WI, and East Coast.

 

[BoardingDoc]

MD midwest, aways on coasts.
Step 1 236, Step 2 263
2nd quartile, HP avg 3rd year with H in surgery and medicine
Several abstracts in different things, 1 pub going through revisions. Consistent medical and non-medical volunteering.
EM group leader. ER Tech and waiter before school.
Will have 1 (supposedly strong) SLOE by October 1st with 2 non-EM letters. 2nd SLOE should be in by mid/late October. Have a 2nd away that I can request to send SLOE to places I've interviewed.

How many apps should I send? Interested in TX, CA (none of the big 4 yr places), AZ, FL, IL, MO, WI, and East Coast.

You're fine unless you interview like a total creep. I had similar or slightly worse stats than you and applied to ~30 programs. CA is hypercompetitive, unless you have ties to the area, you probably won't get many/any interviews. Everywhere else you'll be fine.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Need some opinions, hopefully someone who was in my position can help me out.

DO Student
Step 1 222
Step 2 251

From midwest, would like to stay midwest (Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan)

I wanted to apply ACGME EM but backed away after my step 1 score. Now, with my miraculous increase in step 2, I'm reconsidering.

I only have two AOA rotations scheduled before September 15. So no acgme SLOEs.

Do I have a shot?

Someone with more knowledge about SLOEs for DO students will be helpful to chime in here. That said, your scores are certainly good enough to match into an ACGME program, provided your grades are also up to snuff.

Again, there is likely a significant hurdle in applying without an ACGME SLOE which other people are better suited to comment on.

 

[emergencywv]

Someone with more knowledge about SLOEs for DO students will be helpful to chime in here. That said, your scores are certainly good enough to match into an ACGME program, provided your grades are also up to snuff.

Again, there is likely a significant hurdle in applying without an ACGME SLOE which other people are better suited to comment on.

I appreciate the answer! I'll actively search for an ACGME rotation. I'm glad I did much better on step 2 and I think it will open some doors for me for acgme (based of the 2016 program director survey)

 

[snowbrdr88]

I appreciate the answer! I'll actively search for an ACGME rotation. I'm glad I did much better on step 2 and I think it will open some doors for me for acgme (based of the 2016 program director survey)

Away Rotations | CDEM Curriculum

 

[Coldplayfan123]

Greetings my friends,

Thinking about EM now. Yes, I'm a 4th year and haven't even done the rotation or ever thought about EM. Getting into contact w dept tomorrow. Know nothing about the process. Thoughts?

Step 1: mid 240
Step 2: not sure, haven't received, likely 255-265 based off practice tests. CS -- taking way late... like decemeber

Pubs: only 1, definitely not EM. ~10 posters and presentations.
Upper quintile of class, all Honors 3rd year, didn't make Jr AOA, possible Sr AOA.
Extra curricular: Study of Eastern Christianity, prayer, running, plants, animals, meditation, monasticism
MD state school, sort of well known I suppose

Strongly considering entering seminary after residency, where I could still work as a physician. Wondering if I should bring this up on interviews. Fairly obvious if one reads my PS.

Peace to you all

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

Greetings my friends,

Thinking about EM now. Yes, I'm a 4th year and haven't even done the rotation or ever thought about EM. Getting into contact w dept tomorrow. Know nothing about the process. Thoughts?

Step 1: mid 240
Step 2: not sure, haven't received, likely 255-265 based off practice tests. CS -- taking way late... like decemeber

Pubs: only 1, definitely not EM. ~10 posters and presentations.
Upper quintile of class, all Honors 3rd year, didn't make Jr AOA, possible Sr AOA.
Extra curricular: Study of Eastern Christianity, prayer, running, plants, animals, meditation, monasticism
MD state school, sort of well known I suppose

Strongly considering entering seminary after residency, where I could still work as a physician. Wondering if I should bring this up on interviews. Fairly obvious if one reads my PS.

Peace to you all

And why are you considering EM instead of FM?

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

Greetings my friends,

Thinking about EM now. Yes, I'm a 4th year and haven't even done the rotation or ever thought about EM. Getting into contact w dept tomorrow. Know nothing about the process. Thoughts?

Step 1: mid 240
Step 2: not sure, haven't received, likely 255-265 based off practice tests. CS -- taking way late... like decemeber

Pubs: only 1, definitely not EM. ~10 posters and presentations.
Upper quintile of class, all Honors 3rd year, didn't make Jr AOA, possible Sr AOA.
Extra curricular: Study of Eastern Christianity, prayer, running, plants, animals, meditation, monasticism
MD state school, sort of well known I suppose

Strongly considering entering seminary after residency, where I could still work as a physician. Wondering if I should bring this up on interviews. Fairly obvious if one reads my PS.

Peace to you all

Had similarish stats, matched last season. Not religious though. I'm sure that will play differently at different institutions, however if seminary is important to you I would advertise that in your application. Also not sure why EM VS FM, if you want to work at a seminary you might consider FM.
It is also pretty late in this season, away rotations are important for EM and it may be difficult to secure them this late in the year.

 

[Coldplayfan123]

Thanks for the responses. From what I know of EM and brief shadowing, I believe I would like the pace, commonly seen conditions, shift work, and working with underserved populations. In addition, while FM was okay, I didn't like it as much for various reasons (would rather do IM than FM, anyway), not to mention more practical reasons like being more easily nomadic as an EM. Most seminarian or monastic physicians I know are in IM (actually all of them), though I'm sure there are other specialties, I just don't know any personally.

I'm most worried about the SLOE and aways right now. I know my stats are okay from looking at CO, but the EM application process is different than other specialties. My meeting got delayed with my PD until Friday, so we'll see how that goes. Here goes for attempting to secure an away or 2!

Peace to you all.

 

[1911OMS2]

DO student
3rd quartile, research with poster (no pub), EMT for three years before school
Step 1 / Comlex 1: 242/614
Step 2 / Comlex 2: 239/665
3rd year grades: 1H, 3 HP, the rest P
Completing four aways at ACGME programs that provide SLOE's
WAMC? Am I okay only participating in the ACGME match? How broadly should I apply? Would it wise to apply to old AOA programs that have moved over to ACGME?

 

[towelonthefloor]

Also a DO student here.
Step 1/Comlex 1: 230/580
Step 2/Comlex 2: 232/540

I was planning on applying only ACGME, but I just got my step 2 score back and now im considering both to play it safe.
Should I also apply to a back up specialty?

 

[Bill Brasky]

I also got slapped in the face by COMLEX

Step 1/Level 1: 222 / 558
Step 2/Level 2: 223 / 543 (seriously??)

3rd year grades: All P's (no HP at my school)
No red flags at all
ECs/Personal statement fairly unremarkable

I think this all keeps me in striking distance if I apply smartly and broadly. I will have 3 SLOEs, but I am applying to a lot more AOA programs now. I know AOA programs like to see AOA letters - but if 2 of my SLOEs are former AOA programs (just switched in the last 1-2 years), will that carry weight?

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

I also got slapped in the face by COMLEX

Step 1/Level 1: 222 / 558
Step 2/Level 2: 223 / 543 (seriously??)

3rd year grades: All P's (no HP at my school)
No red flags at all
ECs/Personal statement fairly unremarkable

I think this all keeps me in striking distance if I apply smartly and broadly. I will have 3 SLOEs, but I am applying to a lot more AOA programs now. I know AOA programs like to see AOA letters - but if 2 of my SLOEs are former AOA programs (just switched in the last 1-2 years), will that carry weight?

I also got slapped in the face by COMLEX

Step 1/Level 1: 222 / 558
Step 2/Level 2: 223 / 543 (seriously??)

3rd year grades: All P's (no HP at my school)
No red flags at all
ECs/Personal statement fairly unremarkable

I think this all keeps me in striking distance if I apply smartly and broadly. I will have 3 SLOEs, but I am applying to a lot more AOA programs now. I know AOA programs like to see AOA letters - but if 2 of my SLOEs are former AOA programs (just switched in the last 1-2 years), will that carry weight?

DO student
3rd quartile, research with poster (no pub), EMT for three years before school
Step 1 / Comlex 1: 242/614
Step 2 / Comlex 2: 239/665
3rd year grades: 1H, 3 HP, the rest P
Completing four aways at ACGME programs that provide SLOE's
WAMC? Am I okay only participating in the ACGME match? How broadly should I apply? Would it wise to apply to old AOA programs that have moved over to ACGME?

Also a DO student here.
Step 1/Comlex 1: 230/580
Step 2/Comlex 2: 232/540

I was planning on applying only ACGME, but I just got my step 2 score back and now im considering both to play it safe.
Should I also apply to a back up specialty?

Thought I'd update my previous post since I got my Step 2/Level 2 back this week and have some aways lined up.

Step 1/Level 1 - 219/559
Step 2/Level 2 - 237/517 (WTF COMLEX?!?)

Will have 3 ACGME SLOEs + 1 AOA. Just finished up the first away and am anticipating Honors.

Planning on busting my ass for all remaining aways and want to apply straight NRMP.

WAMC?

Hard to say for sure for DO unless very high scores or very low scores. Vast majority of cases will be program and individual dependent. If you score average or near there, get good SLOES. and interview well you will have a chance at programs. Apply as broadly as you think you need given your experience on aways, many people also match at aways if it's a good fit.
EDI: Corrected my hyperbole

 

[notmyrealone]

Changed the name since I've put enough info on here to identify me over the years.

State school in the South, not considered flagship state medical school.
Pre-clinical: Passed everything, mostly C's.
Clinical: A's in peds/obgyn. B's in the other clerkships.
Step 1: 211
Step 2: TBD

Significantly non-trad, married with kids, worked in ED prior to medical school. Would like to stay at home institution, if possible (school age kids, spouse has a job here). My advisor/dept chair is recommending me have a back-up specialty (probably FM) just in case I don't match. I have applied to 4 away rotations on VSAS and all but one have gotten back to me that they denied my application.

What do I do? What if I don't get an away rotation? Does that kill my chances of EM?

I basically went to med school to be an ER doc, end of story. I know I'm not the most competitive candidate but I don't have any true red flags other than my low Step 1.

Took CK today. Won't get the results back until Sept 7, I think. So what happens if I get 220s on Step 2? Am I done with my chances for EM?

I will have SLOE's from my home program and 1 away. Wasn't planning on getting any other LORs, are they needed/necessary?

Thanks!

 

[BigGAC1]

the vast majority match at aways

Im interested in what makes you say this - I was under the impression it was like 60/40 in favor of non-aways. Do you think this is something specific to DOs or is this just true across the board?

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

Im interested in what makes you say this - I was under the impression it was like 60/40 in favor of non-aways. Do you think this is something specific to DOs or is this just true across the board?

I'm not sure what the break down across the board is, I can only anecdotally say that most of our graduating class ended up where they had done aways. Also from what I've seen DO candidates do 3-4 audition rotations and tend to match there. Not sure of the actual numbers, only speaking anecdotally. Probably more correct to say many match at aways.

 

[doggydog]

Took CK today. Won't get the results back until Sept 7, I think. So what happens if I get 220s on Step 2? Am I done with my chances for EM?

I will have SLOE's from my home program and 1 away. Wasn't planning on getting any other LORs, are they needed/necessary?

Thanks!

Pretty sure you need three letters total to ever be considered to have a complete app in ERAS. Get a normal LOR.

 

[Buckeye1992]

Do here
Improved greatly from step 1 to step 2 but still don't really know where I stand. Have 3 AOA and 1 ACGME audition.
Step 1 202/510
Step 2 229/571

My school uses letter grades and I have gotten As in all of my EM rotations FWIW

Was planning on looking at the freida step 1 cutoffs and then broadly applying to both aoa and acgme programs accordingly

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

Hard to say for sure for DO unless very high scores or very low scores. Vast majority of cases will be program and individual dependent. If you score average or near there, get good SLOES. and interview well you will have a chance at programs. Apply as broadly as you think you need given your experience on aways, the vast majority match at aways.

True also for M.D.? If so, I may want to be more purposeful in which institution (rather than location) I do my away. In other words, this information will change my management ;-)

 

[doggydog]

True also for M.D.? If so, I may want to be more purposeful in which institution (rather than location) I do my away. In other words, this information will change my management ;-)

People match at their aways because they rotated there because they wanted to match there.

I ranked my aways in the bottom three of my rank list. I didn't match at either place.

1/4th of my residency class rotated here.

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

True also for M.D.? If so, I may want to be more purposeful in which institution (rather than location) I do my away. In other words, this information will change my management ;-)

Went ahead and edited my earlier post, vast majority was an exaggeration. If you aren't rotating where you hoped don't sweat it.

 

[drewS21]

MD 2018 Here.

Poor step 1: 208
about 3 weeks out from taking Step 2, scores are 232 and 239 on practices. Hoping for mid 240s or low 250s if I get it in gear.

Grades:
2 preclinical honors, rest pass. One remediated course in the summer after 1st year.
Clincal grades are honors in IM, FM, Psych, Surgery. Rest pass. Doing one away and one home rotation, getting one more LOR from non-EM faculty member.

How am I looking? :-/

 

[samsa2018]

.

 

[W19]

Do here
Improved greatly from step 1 to step 2 but still don't really know where I stand. Have 3 AOA and 1 ACGME audition.
Step 1 202/510
Step 2 229/571

My school uses letter grades and I have gotten As in all of my EM rotations FWIW

Was planning on looking at the freida step 1 cutoffs and then broadly applying to both aoa and acgme programs accordingly

You should definitely have a plan B if EM is really getting competitive the way some at my school are saying...

 

[gator1993]

Hey guys,

New here to the forum and I'm hoping Posting correctly. Anyways I'm a 4th year osteopathic medical student and am looking into matching into ER. I understand that it's gotten pretty competitive lately and would like to know how competitive I would be for the ACGME match or if I should just go straight AOA.

Stats wise:
USMLE step 1 230
COMLEX Level 1 528
COMLEX Level 2 599

Unfortunalty I didn't take step 2.

I would like to do an acgme residency but not sure if I should forego the DO match?? Any help I would greatly appreciate it, thanks guys!

 

[mds606]

It sucks, but you should apply to both and see what interviews you have by early November. How many SLOE's will you have? Make sure 2 are ACGME if you really want the best chance for that match.

 

[KGflyboy]

Hey guys,

New here to the forum and I'm hoping Posting correctly. Anyways I'm a 4th year osteopathic medical student and am looking into matching into ER. I understand that it's gotten pretty competitive lately and would like to know how competitive I would be for the ACGME match or if I should just go straight AOA.

Stats wise:
USMLE step 1 230
COMLEX Level 1 528
COMLEX Level 2 599

Unfortunalty I didn't take step 2.

I would like to do an acgme residency but not sure if I should forego the DO match?? Any help I would greatly appreciate it, thanks guys!

Instead of saying "unfortunately I didn't take Step 2," why don't you just take step 2? Have you checked to see if any test centers have openings within the next month or two? Maybe you could take it and have a score back in the middle of interview season.

 

[jw3600]

I think if you're a DO applicant and don't have at least 2 ACGME sloes you have to apply AOA as backup.

 

[Makati2008]

Also a DO student here.
Step 1/Comlex 1: 230/580
Step 2/Comlex 2: 232/540

I was planning on applying only ACGME, but I just got my step 2 score back and now im considering both to play it safe.
Should I also apply to a back up specialty?

You are fine for ACGME just apply appropriately


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[Apollyon]

It seems that EM acgme is pretty DO friendly, so does being an MD applicant have any advantage over being DO for acgme residencies?

There are more MDs and MD students than DO, for one. Secondly, take two students - first is MD, second is DO. First one - "I got 252 Step I, 260 Step II". Second one - "I got 517 COMLEX I, and 700 COMLEX II. I scored a 238 on Step II. I didn't take Step I." Honestly, if one was NOT a DO, who sounds easier to interpret there? How many MDs know anything more that even the most casual about the COMLEX examinations?

I am not saying it is just (because the only thing "fair" is the weather), but it is logical. I mean, even among MD programs, they even stratify amongst themselves.

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

It seems that EM acgme is pretty DO friendly, so does being an MD applicant have any advantage over being DO for acgme residencies?

There are more MDs and MD students than DO, for one. Secondly, take two students - first is MD, second is DO. First one - "I got 252 Step I, 260 Step II". Second one - "I got 517 COMLEX I, and 700 COMLEX II. I scored a 238 on Step II. I didn't take Step I." Honestly, if one was NOT a DO, who sounds easier to interpret there? How many MDs know anything more that even the most casual about the COMLEX examinations?

I am not saying it is just (because the only thing "fair" is the weather), but it is logical. I mean, even among MD programs, they even stratify amongst themselves.

Further, just like every other specialty, there are programs that just don't take DO's, unfortunately.

 

[jw3600]

There are more MDs and MD students than DO, for one. Secondly, take two students - first is MD, second is DO. First one - "I got 252 Step I, 260 Step II". Second one - "I got 517 COMLEX I, and 700 COMLEX II. I scored a 238 on Step II. I didn't take Step I." Honestly, if one was NOT a DO, who sounds easier to interpret there? How many MDs know anything more that even the most casual about the COMLEX examinations?

I am not saying it is just (because the only thing "fair" is the weather), but it is logical. I mean, even among MD programs, they even stratify amongst themselves.

Are you saying that if a DO takes both USMLE then they are no longer at a disadvantage ?

 

[jw3600]

I would hope MD has a major advantage over DO for acgme programs. In any case EM is becoming so competitive that when I apply in 2018 I wont be surprised if things are way different. For 2016 I read here that programs are already upping their step 1 cutoffs to 220, and I won't be surprised (and I hope) that number hits 230 by 2018.

Why would you hope?

 

[Apollyon]

Are you saying that if a DO takes both USMLE then they are no longer at a disadvantage ?

No, I asked, "Who sounds easier to interpret?" However, if you are angling for a fight, I'm not your guy. At the same time, anyone who thinks DO applicants are on an equal footing with US MD applicants is, frankly, slightly deluded. And I say that as an FMG.

 

[jw3600]

No, I asked, "Who sounds easier to interpret?" However, if you are angling for a fight, I'm not your guy. At the same time, anyone who thinks DO applicants are on an equal footing with US MD applicants is, frankly, slightly deluded. And I say that as an FMG.

Not looking for a fight. I just misinterpreted what you said. I thought you meant the disadvantage of a DO is limited to the USMLE/comlex issue. It seems we agree it's more than that.

 

[jw3600]

Because it would defeat the purpose of working hard to get into a us md school if their own associated residency programs stop giving them preference. as for the cutoff, I scored above average on my step 1 and that should mean something. I agree that tests can be misrepresentative of knowledge but there is still a huge difference between someone testing well above average and someone in the 210s, which is why step 1 scores are used.

I 100% ageee board scores should be a major component of residency competitiveness.