Official 2018-2019 Anesthesiology Residency Application Thread

[docbsb2015]

Weird flex but ok

Your username/pic combo best on SDN

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[RedPhys]

Decided to go for a second look, and the attending assigned to my resident's cases is the program director ... so much for a chill "just hanging out with the residents" second-look

 

[Bossentan]

Weird flex but ok

 

[Psai]

Decided to go for a second look, and the attending assigned to my resident's cases is the program director ... so much for a chill "just hanging out with the residents" second-look

Some pds seem cool: sinai, nyu, Hopkins.

 

[physicianado]

Has anyone heard from any of the PDs if its going to be a deal breaker if one doesn't have his/her Step 2 CS score by ranking time? I am a DO student, not an IMG or FMG.

 

[Indirect&Passive]

Has anyone heard from any of the PDs if its going to be a deal breaker if one doesn't have his/her Step 2 CS score by ranking time? I am a DO student, not an IMG or FMG.

Are you taking CS as a DO?


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[physicianado]

Are you taking CS as a DO?


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Yes, taking CS as a DO

 

[UnoMas]

Yes, taking CS as a DO

 

[physicianado]

Trying to talk to programs in the language they understand better i.e. USMLE

 

[docbsb2015]

Trying to talk to programs in the language they understand better i.e. USMLE

I don’t think they care about CS/PE..

 

[UnoMas]

Trying to talk to programs in the language they understand better i.e. USMLE

Personally I think that is very unnecessary. Step 1 and 2 should be more than enough.
Actually I remember stumbling upon a discussion about this very topic i.e. DO students taking Step 2 CS, among some prominent attendings on this subforum. The consensus was that Step 2 CS/COMLEX PE was basically a money grab, passing it is necessary to move forward, failing it is a red flag and only the uninformed, ill-advised DO students would take the Step 2 CS. The risk is tooo high vs. very very little benefits.
If you already took it, there isn't much to do now but if you are waiting to take it, I would highly highly reconsider.

Unless you failed the PE and want to prove that u can nail the CS. Even that was the case I still think it's not necessary.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

Trying to talk to programs in the language they understand better i.e. USMLE

This is such a monumental waste of money I cannot even begin to imagine who gave you the advice to do this.

 

[repititionition]

Trying to talk to programs in the language they understand better i.e. USMLE

...and yet you won't have the score back by the time of ranking. not sure your logic is sound on this one.

 

[UnoMas]

Hello all, I hope everyone is finding some time to relax during this holiday season. I have a couple questions I hope you can help with.

1. I had to delay CK a little later than I wanted and my score won't be back until the first week of February. Do you think this is too late to update programs and do you think it will effect my ranking? Basically how early do programs make their list before the deadline? If they finish interviews mid-January, do they make the list right away, or is it a more prolonged process. I know it's impossible to know for sure but if anyone has any insight I would appreciate it!

2. When would you send emails/call your top choice? A month before rank lists are due or closer like a week before? Just wondering everyone's thoughts.

Thanks!

I would imagine as long as you have your score back by Feb 20th, you should be ok. UCSF is the only program that explicitly states that you won't be ranked if you don't have Step 2 CK/CS in. This was taken right from their website:

Q: Must I take USMLE Part 2 prior to interviewing?

A: A passing score on both parts of USMLE Step II (CK and CS) is required for all trainees beginning a UCSF GME program. To meet this requirement, applicants should have passed USMLE Step II (CK and CS) prior to placement on UCSF rank order lists. So, you must take both parts of USMLE step 2 in time for the results to return by February 15, 2017. In selected cases, with the approval of the Program Director and the Office of GME, applicants may be placed on UCSF rank order lists without the USMLE Step II (CK and CS) score.

February 15th was the ranking deadline in 2017. I can't imagine a program of that caliber wait until the last minute to finalize their rank list but then again I would think if it's important to have the scores in say a week by that date, they would have specified it. I have no clue how this is done as you stated I thought programs meet way before the deadline to rank applicants.

The best way to answer this is to email the programs you interviewed at and ask.

I was told different answers regarding the Step 2 CK thing.

1. Some residents told me programs don't waste their time interviewing you, assuming you didn't mess up the interview, and then not rank you just because you don't have your Step 2 CK in, your rank might be lower. (I am a little suspicious of this opinion)

2. Some residents told me not having Step 2 is fine as a good portion of the applicants don't have Step 2 CK as well and the majority of your points come from Step 1 + the rest of your application

3. Some told me it's absolutely necessary to have CK and CS in otherwise you won't be ranked at all. It's a mystery how early before the deadline

All and all I think it's case by case basis, if you have a good Step 1, they might be more lenient. If you have good grades, good Step 1 score, never failed anything, the chances of you failing the CK is probably minimal.

Then again, I am just as clueless as you are haha. Hope that helps

Edit: Actually I looked it up, in 2017 the deadline was Feb 22, so UCSF's deadline on the 15 is 1 week prior to the deadline. And yes I currently have way too much time on my hand

 

[UrbanAchievers]

I would imagine as long as you have your score back by Feb 20th, you should be ok. UCSF is the only program that explicitly states that you won't be ranked if you don't have Step 2 CK/CS in. This was taken right from their website:

Q: Must I take USMLE Part 2 prior to interviewing?

A: A passing score on both parts of USMLE Step II (CK and CS) is required for all trainees beginning a UCSF GME program. To meet this requirement, applicants should have passed USMLE Step II (CK and CS) prior to placement on UCSF rank order lists. So, you must take both parts of USMLE step 2 in time for the results to return by February 15, 2017. In selected cases, with the approval of the Program Director and the Office of GME, applicants may be placed on UCSF rank order lists without the USMLE Step II (CK and CS) score.

February 15th was the ranking deadline in 2017. I can't imagine a program of that caliber wait until the last minute to finalize their rank list but then again I would think if it's important to have the scores in say a week by that date, they would have specified it. I have no clue how this is done as you stated I thought programs meet way before the deadline to rank applicants.

The best way to answer this is to email the programs you interviewed at and ask.

I was told different answers regarding the Step 2 CK thing.

1. Some residents told me programs don't waste their time interviewing you, assuming you didn't mess up the interview, and then not rank you just because you don't have your Step 2 CK in, your rank might be lower. (I am a little suspicious of this opinion)

2. Some residents told me not having Step 2 is fine as a good portion of the applicants don't have Step 2 CK as well and the majority of your points come from Step 1 + the rest of your application

3. Some told me it's absolutely necessary to have CK and CS in otherwise you won't be ranked at all. It's a mystery how early before the deadline

All and all I think it's case by case basis, if you have a good Step 1, they might be more lenient. If you have good grades, good Step 1 score, never failed anything, the chances of you failing the CK is probably minimal.

Then again, I am just as clueless as you are haha. Hope that helps

Edit: Actually I looked it up, in 2017 the deadline was Feb 22, so UCSF's deadline on the 15 is 1 week prior to the deadline. And yes I currently have way too much time on my hand

I think option 1 is the most realistic. The vast majority of applicants(>95%)are going to have a CK score by the rank deadline. You will likely still be ranked at most programs without a CK score. However, you will likely fall down their list at least a few spots because you are not going to “earn points” for your CK score that other applicants will be earning.

I would also venture to guess most programs don’t care at all about the CS/PE. They certainly aren’t going to be instrumental in moving you up a rank list.

 

[UnoMas]

I think option 1 is the most realistic. The vast majority of applicants(>95%)are going to have a CK score by the rank deadline. You will likely still be ranked at most programs without a CK score. However, you will likely fall down their list at least a few spots because you are not going to “earn points” for your CK score that other applicants will be earning.

I would also venture to guess most programs don’t care at all about the CS/PE. They certainly aren’t going to be instrumental in moving you up a rank list.

Makes sense with the assumption that if programs decide that you are good enough for an interview, you are good enough to be ranked sans a disastrous interview day. Programs that require Step 2 CK for ranking and match, most likely won't even interview you without a Step 2 CK score on file or explicitly state it on their website.
I was also told that as it gets closer to the ranking deadline, programs may send out email requesting a Step 2 CK/CS score if they require it
I would think the CS/PE is more important than CK since the exam is so unpredictable and retaking it + waiting for score to come back takes a long time

 

[GASLife]

I would imagine as long as you have your score back by Feb 20th, you should be ok. UCSF is the only program that explicitly states that you won't be ranked if you don't have Step 2 CK/CS in. This was taken right from their website:

Q: Must I take USMLE Part 2 prior to interviewing?

A: A passing score on both parts of USMLE Step II (CK and CS) is required for all trainees beginning a UCSF GME program. To meet this requirement, applicants should have passed USMLE Step II (CK and CS) prior to placement on UCSF rank order lists. So, you must take both parts of USMLE step 2 in time for the results to return by February 15, 2017. In selected cases, with the approval of the Program Director and the Office of GME, applicants may be placed on UCSF rank order lists without the USMLE Step II (CK and CS) score.

February 15th was the ranking deadline in 2017. I can't imagine a program of that caliber wait until the last minute to finalize their rank list but then again I would think if it's important to have the scores in say a week by that date, they would have specified it. I have no clue how this is done as you stated I thought programs meet way before the deadline to rank applicants.

The best way to answer this is to email the programs you interviewed at and ask.

I was told different answers regarding the Step 2 CK thing.

1. Some residents told me programs don't waste their time interviewing you, assuming you didn't mess up the interview, and then not rank you just because you don't have your Step 2 CK in, your rank might be lower. (I am a little suspicious of this opinion)

2. Some residents told me not having Step 2 is fine as a good portion of the applicants don't have Step 2 CK as well and the majority of your points come from Step 1 + the rest of your application

3. Some told me it's absolutely necessary to have CK and CS in otherwise you won't be ranked at all. It's a mystery how early before the deadline

All and all I think it's case by case basis, if you have a good Step 1, they might be more lenient. If you have good grades, good Step 1 score, never failed anything, the chances of you failing the CK is probably minimal.

Then again, I am just as clueless as you are haha. Hope that helps

Edit: Actually I looked it up, in 2017 the deadline was Feb 22, so UCSF's deadline on the 15 is 1 week prior to the deadline. And yes I currently have way too much time on my hand

I would imagine as long as you have your score back by Feb 20th, you should be ok. UCSF is the only program that explicitly states that you won't be ranked if you don't have Step 2 CK/CS in. This was taken right from their website:

Q: Must I take USMLE Part 2 prior to interviewing?

A: A passing score on both parts of USMLE Step II (CK and CS) is required for all trainees beginning a UCSF GME program. To meet this requirement, applicants should have passed USMLE Step II (CK and CS) prior to placement on UCSF rank order lists. So, you must take both parts of USMLE step 2 in time for the results to return by February 15, 2017. In selected cases, with the approval of the Program Director and the Office of GME, applicants may be placed on UCSF rank order lists without the USMLE Step II (CK and CS) score.

February 15th was the ranking deadline in 2017. I can't imagine a program of that caliber wait until the last minute to finalize their rank list but then again I would think if it's important to have the scores in say a week by that date, they would have specified it. I have no clue how this is done as you stated I thought programs meet way before the deadline to rank applicants.

The best way to answer this is to email the programs you interviewed at and ask.

I was told different answers regarding the Step 2 CK thing.

1. Some residents told me programs don't waste their time interviewing you, assuming you didn't mess up the interview, and then not rank you just because you don't have your Step 2 CK in, your rank might be lower. (I am a little suspicious of this opinion)

2. Some residents told me not having Step 2 is fine as a good portion of the applicants don't have Step 2 CK as well and the majority of your points come from Step 1 + the rest of your application

3. Some told me it's absolutely necessary to have CK and CS in otherwise you won't be ranked at all. It's a mystery how early before the deadline

All and all I think it's case by case basis, if you have a good Step 1, they might be more lenient. If you have good grades, good Step 1 score, never failed anything, the chances of you failing the CK is probably minimal.

Then again, I am just as clueless as you are haha. Hope that helps

Edit: Actually I looked it up, in 2017 the deadline was Feb 22, so UCSF's deadline on the 15 is 1 week prior to the deadline. And yes I currently have way too much time on my hand

Thanks so much for the info! Both my CK and CS scores should be back the first week of Feb so hopefully 2 weeks is enough time for programs not to lower my rank. I'm hoping for the best, I appreciate all of the responses! Can't believe interview season is almost over, seems like we all just started having meltdowns yesterday

 

[EMstudent1]

Is it time to start the rank list thread yet?

 

[RedPhys]

I would also venture to guess most programs don’t care at all about the CS/PE. They certainly aren’t going to be instrumental in moving you up a rank list.

I imagine it's just as @UnoMas mentioned, it's just a matter of passing it. Probably the last thing any program wants is to match someone who then is at risk of not starting in July due to a non-passing CS score. Having it ain't gonna move you up; not having a passing score by rank-list-due-date may eliminate you from the matching game.

As someone who also won't get their CS score back until, at best Jan 30, am too hoping that it won't matter for match ...

 

[docbsb2015]

How late is too late to cancel an interview? It’s on the 10th (4 days).

 

[Indirect&Passive]

How late is too late to cancel an interview? It’s on the 10th (4 days).

If you don’t want to go don’t. I’m sure someone would fly in a heartbeat for that spot.


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[MightBeACylon439]

How late is too late to cancel an interview? It’s on the 10th (4 days).

If its rochester mayo or Oregon you should def cancel it.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

Anybody in New Jersey this week?


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[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

If you don't do your Sub-I until later in fourth year, will that affect your application's competitiveness? Do programs want to see that Sub-I grade on your transcript when you are applying?

 

[docbsb2015]

If you don't do your Sub-I until later in fourth year, will that affect your application's competitiveness? Do programs want to see that Sub-I grade on your transcript when you are applying?

No

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

Any one got info on cooper/Rowan?


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[MightBeACylon439]

Last day of interviews for OHSU was today.

 

[UnoMas]

Any one got info on cooper/Rowan?


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I interviewed at Cooper. I think it's a very decent program, the size is on the smaller end but residents seem very happy, good faculty support, good location (if you live in Philly and drive in). They give you tons of time to study for Boards (that's what I scribbled down during the interview), residents do tons of blocks, Peds rotations at CHOP-residents do go there for fellowships, In-house ACTA and Pain fellowships (1 spot each but I was told they have the capacity to make ACTA into 2, for a class of 4 residents a year).
The only thing I didn't like is the fact that Cardiologists do the final read of the Echo, not physically in the OR, but they have a reading room near the ORs. Not a huge deal for me but I found that was strange.
3 calls/month (3pm-7am weekdays, 12 hours call weekend, 1 late resident a day-get out around 5:30-7:00pm)
The PD and the Chair are funny
I think I would be happy if I end up there.

 

[Inygma]

I interviewed at Cooper. I think it's a very decent program, the size is on the smaller end but residents seem very happy, good faculty support, good location (if you live in Philly and drive in). They give you tons of time to study for Boards (that's what I scribbled down during the interview), residents do tons of blocks, Peds rotations at CHOP-residents do go there for fellowships, In-house ACTA and Pain fellowships (1 spot each but I was told they have the capacity to make ACTA into 2, for a class of 4 residents a year).
The only thing I didn't like is the fact that Cardiologists do the final read of the Echo, not physically in the OR, but they have a reading room near the ORs. Not a huge deal for me but I found that was strange.
3 calls/month (3pm-7am weekdays, 12 hours call weekend, 1 late resident a day-get out around 5:30-7:00pm)
The PD and the Chair are funny
I think I would be happy if I end up there.

Can confirm all the above (from my interview date)

By far the best hours of any residency that I interviewed at. Usually out of OR at 3pm on weekdays, work one weekend shift on average a month, with 2 weekday calls a month.
Residents seem very happy, PD is a character.

The only downside is that you can't moonlight, the hours are due to negotiation by the PD for good work/life balance, so to maintain it you can't try and pick up extra shifts for $

 

[Shlez]

How would you rank the following? Very unsure what to do... any direction is much appreciated! (Please give reasons for your opinions)

Henry ford,
UIC,
Cleveland Clinic in Florida,
Einstein,
Beaumont

 

[physicianado]

Can confirm all the above (from my interview date)

By far the best hours of any residency that I interviewed at. Usually out of OR at 3pm on weekdays, work one weekend shift on average a month, with 2 weekday calls a month.
Residents seem very happy, PD is a character.

The only downside is that you can't moonlight, the hours are due to negotiation by the PD for good work/life balance, so to maintain it you can't try and pick up extra shifts for $

There is one other downside, Camden, NJ is one of the deadliest place (although slowly improving) with the highest crime in America

 

[agent_purple]

I feel like every major program I interviewed at had "the highest crime in America" simply because it was in a big city.

This is so relative in the grand scheme of things.

 

[nimbus]

I feel like every major program I interviewed at had "the highest crime in America" simply because it was in a big city.

This is so relative in the grand scheme of things.

The upside is a good amount of penetrating trauma experience.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

I feel like every major program I interviewed at had "the highest crime in America" simply because it was in a big city.

This is so relative in the grand scheme of things.

Ha I looked it up Camden is on another level


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[Dr.Jekyll75]

How would you rank the following? Very unsure what to do... any direction is much appreciated! (Please give reasons for your opinions)

Henry ford,
UIC,
Cleveland Clinic in Florida,
Einstein,
Beaumont

Depends what you want .
In state vs out of state ? I’d go Henry ford over Beaumont
Name recognition? Uic over Einstein .
Idk jack about Cleveland clinic Florida :/


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[Dr.Jekyll75]

I interviewed at Cooper. I think it's a very decent program, the size is on the smaller end but residents seem very happy, good faculty support, good location (if you live in Philly and drive in). They give you tons of time to study for Boards (that's what I scribbled down during the interview), residents do tons of blocks, Peds rotations at CHOP-residents do go there for fellowships, In-house ACTA and Pain fellowships (1 spot each but I was told they have the capacity to make ACTA into 2, for a class of 4 residents a year).
The only thing I didn't like is the fact that Cardiologists do the final read of the Echo, not physically in the OR, but they have a reading room near the ORs. Not a huge deal for me but I found that was strange.
3 calls/month (3pm-7am weekdays, 12 hours call weekend, 1 late resident a day-get out around 5:30-7:00pm)
The PD and the Chair are funny
I think I would be happy if I end up there.

Can confirm all the above (from my interview date)

By far the best hours of any residency that I interviewed at. Usually out of OR at 3pm on weekdays, work one weekend shift on average a month, with 2 weekday calls a month.
Residents seem very happy, PD is a character.

The only downside is that you can't moonlight, the hours are due to negotiation by the PD for good work/life balance, so to maintain it you can't try and pick up extra shifts for $

There is one other downside, Camden, NJ is one of the deadliest place (although slowly improving) with the highest crime in America

I was really impressed by them. Real surprise I just wanted to see what others felt there cuz this program gets no praise online


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[Inygma]

I was really impressed by them. Real surprise I just wanted to see what others felt there cuz this program gets no praise online


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Ya I hear you, I felt the same way. In regards to Camden, no one lives in Camden and the bad area is supposedly 2-3 miles away from the hospital. A lot of staff takes the train from Philly everyday which is a ~10 min commute and drops you off right at the hospital and I haven't heard anything too dangerous about that, save the usual subway homeless etc

 

[Gern Blansten]

Personally I think that is very unnecessary. Step 1 and 2 should be more than enough.
Actually I remember stumbling upon a discussion about this very topic i.e. DO students taking Step 2 CS, among some prominent attendings on this subforum. The consensus was that Step 2 CS/COMLEX PE was basically a money grab, passing it is necessary to move forward, failing it is a red flag and only the uninformed, ill-advised DO students would take the Step 2 CS. The risk is tooo high vs. very very little benefits.
If you already took it, there isn't much to do now but if you are waiting to take it, I would highly highly reconsider.

Unless you failed the PE and want to prove that u can nail the CS. Even that was the case I still think it's not necessary.

DO's would be foolish to take the CS exam. Cannot help them, could hurt them, and not required. So, it should not be surprising that there is a high fail rate, since signing up for it was a pretty good test of the intellect. IMG's should be the only ones taking the exam, period. That was how it was initially designed, but they figured out that the exam would be expensive to administer and the cost per person would be too high, so they made it required for everyone in order to bring down the cost per person. Now it has its own bureaucracy and cannot be abolished, even though it should be. Would be akin to congress voting for term limits for themselves.
My understanding is that the fail rate for MD students has gone up by a few percentage points as well, in order to help justify the purpose of the exam. It used to be that 98% of MD students passed. More recently, it has become 95-96%. So, not a huge difference, but several students felt the pinch. We faced that a few years back with the ABA recertification exam. The American Board of Medical Specialties demanded that the fail rate be higher than 1% or risk losing the ABMS status for the ABA. It is always hard on the first couple of rounds because it is not like they announce that they are stiffening up the test beforehand. They just do it. Catches a few borderline people off guard until everyone gets the message.

This may be the discussion you were talking about.

 

[UnoMas]

This may be the discussion you were talking about.

This is indeed the exact discussion. Thank you!

 

[radsisrad]

Anyone have a link to the google doc?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

How would you rank the following? Very unsure what to do... any direction is much appreciated! (Please give reasons for your opinions)

Henry ford,
UIC,
Cleveland Clinic in Florida,
Einstein,
Beaumont

Einstein > UIC > Ford > CCF > Beaumont.

 

[herewegofrogs]

So jealous of the ophtho applicants who matched today...

 

[Inygma]

When is the proper time to send out "you are my #1" email?

 

[MightBeACylon439]

When is the proper time to send out "you are my #1" email?

If you do it at all, I would vote some time after the 15th or when you are done with your interviews- whichever happens last.

 

[JDMcNugent]

I know this has been addressed at some point but just wanted to clarify: Does training at a residency program that is owned by a private, for-profit such as HCA, disqualify you from applying for PSLF? I am just realizing that one of my interviews next week is an HCA-affiliate but is a major university medical center which I found to be surprising.

 

[Shlez]

Any advice how to craft that letter going to the #1 choice? Should we call and/or email? Is it really risky to send it to a few of my top programs? Highly doubt PDs are chatting about which applicants sent what

 

[SpartanGuy]

I am done interviewing and sent my number 1 an email. If this interview season has taught me anything it is that programs are so flooded with applications and interviews any way to show additional interest in a program seems to help them decide who is worth their time (personal theory so take it with a grain of salt).

I’m only sending one as I believe anesthesia is a small community and even if PDs aren’t talking about letters received who knows where one might end up for fellowship or a job and I wouldn’t want a disingenuous letter to be something I am remembered for. Reason being I have spoken with a few PDs who have said they are surprised with their match day results in years passed because applicants they thought were a sure thing end up somewhere else.I think it’s fair to play the game but not to the point where it compromises my integrity.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

I am done interviewing and sent my number 1 an email. If this interview season has taught me anything it is that programs are so flooded with applications and interviews any way to show additional interest in a program seems to help them decide who is worth their time (personal theory so take it with a grain of salt).

I’m only sending one as I believe anesthesia is a small community and even if PDs aren’t talking about letters received who knows where one might end up for fellowship or a job and I wouldn’t want a disingenuous letter to be something I am remembered for. Reason being I have spoken with a few PDs who have said they are surprised with their match day results in years passed because applicants they thought were a sure thing end up somewhere else.I think it’s fair to play the game but not to the point where it compromises my integrity.

I second this. Anesthesia is small just like all medicine . People will know where you land . At most send it to your two top choices if you can not choose a top program , I wouldn’t say you are my #1 choice to both programs . I’d be a little more vague about it .


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[Gern Blansten]

I second this. Anesthesia is small just like all medicine . People will know where you land . At most send it to your two top choices if you can not choose a top program , I wouldn’t say you are my #1 choice to both programs . I’d be a little more vague about it .


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If you are too vague, it is interpreted as, "Thanks, but you are not my number one choice." Just letting you know. In my opinion, better to send it to one program and be honest or don't send it at all.

 

[DM27]

This has always been a huge discussion point. The email I sent my top choice was a few sentences. I basically just said that speaking with faculty and residents during the interview day gave me a very positive impression of the program and I felt that these were people I would enjoy working with and interacting with daily and I was going to be ranking them as my number one choice in the match.

I did not send any other emails because, in my opinion, sending a ranking email that does not explicitly state they are your number one choice is basically showing your hand in a negative way. If you don't email them, they don't know if they are your first choice or not, because many programs mention they don't really participate in post-interview contact so maybe you're just one of the people who took them seriously.