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Nobody here recruit for hospitalist all of us went to nephrology at some point because we did not like hospitalist and we thought hospitalist is not life long career but later we discovered that we ran away from fire( hospitalist) to volcano (nephrology) . I totally agrees that hospitalist is disappointing but believe it or not nephrology is 100 fold more disappointing than hospitalist and the worst of it when you hate hospitalist and want get ride of it then you go to nephrology full of dreams to become specialist then after 2 years you find your self working as a hospitalist again at that time you will feel how bitter it is .
If you think people here are just recruiting for hospitalist , so why you think we are just recruiting in this forum only ? did you ask your self if we go to other fellowships forums and say the same words do you think it will work or make any sense ? I am sure if you think about it well you will discover where is the problem .
Theoretically speaking if we are in a different world logism should say that being a specialist in nephrology is a lot better than being general internist ,however on ground in this area of the world general internist is more wanted, more earning, less working, less stressed and more happy than nephrologist .unfortunately now nephrology now is on the bottom of all medical specialities including hospitalist, primary care and geriatrics .
If you think hospitalist who works 2 weeks a month does not have time to see the mountain and lake in the advertisement . I am pleased to tell you that as a nephrologist you may not have a chance to see your self in the mirror .
i agree..that's probably overboard for almost any fellowship...You interviewed at all these? Wow..lotsa money...anyway what are you looking for? Academic or private practice?
i disagree with your categorization that academic nephrologist are selfish and care only about their work life balance. I am disgusted with your incessant attack on academic nephrologist as they are some of the smartest hard working people i know. They obviously know the field isn't in a great place right now and the society as a whole is trying to fix the issue. It is not something that can be fixed overnight. Biggest problem right now is compensation.
-fellowship is suppose to be hard so I do not understand your whining about work.
Act like a professional of the medical field. Don't bash other physicians just because you chose the wrong field. I will leave it at that and not argue with you any further.
Good luckYes, agree - very unprofessional to project one's own unhappiness on rest of us eager and earnest hopefuls for a nephrology spot. I sympathize with nephro007 and other naysayers if their own fellowship experiences were bad, but enough is enough! I've done a lot of research into the future job market (both academic and private) and know what Im getting into! These few bad apples are poisoning the field!
You must be pro gram director
this s brilliantNobody here recruit for hospitalist all of us went to nephrology at some point because we did not like hospitalist and we thought hospitalist is not life long career but later we discovered that we ran away from fire( hospitalist) to volcano (nephrology) . I totally agrees that hospitalist is disappointing but believe it or not nephrology is 100 fold more disappointing than hospitalist and the worst of it when you hate hospitalist and want get ride of it then you go to nephrology full of dreams to become specialist then after 2 years you find your self working as a hospitalist again at that time you will feel how bitter it is .
If you think people here are just recruiting for hospitalist , so why you think we are just recruiting in this forum only ? did you ask your self if we go to other fellowships forums and say the same words do you think it will work or make any sense ? I am sure if you think about it well you will discover where is the problem .
Theoretically speaking if we are in a different world logism should say that being a specialist in nephrology is a lot better than being general internist ,however on ground in this area of the world general internist is more wanted, more earning, less working, less stressed and more happy than nephrologist .unfortunately now nephrology now is on the bottom of all medical specialities including hospitalist, primary care and geriatrics .
If you think hospitalist who works 2 weeks a month does not have time to see the mountain and lake in the advertisement . I am pleased to tell you that as a nephrologist you may not have a chance to see your self in the mirror .
Yes, agree - very unprofessional to project one's own unhappiness on rest of us eager and earnest hopefuls for a nephrology spot. I sympathize with nephro007 and other naysayers if their own fellowship experiences were bad, but enough is enough! I've done a lot of research into the future job market (both academic and private) and know what Im getting into! These few bad apples are poisoning the field!
If you found a better renal job than hospitalist...you are like a case report...but probably u like renal a lot....respect
Can we re-direct this forum to its original purpose of informing about the programs in Nephrology?
I have something to share about a program I recently visited in Univ of Louisville in Kentucky. First of all they don't have any fellow at all!!!
A few blogs ago , they had described this place as malignant program !! Well ... I had to live it by myself. They have a good interventional program there but ......
The first attending that interview me , and probably the only one that read my application , was thankful of my visit. But after that , the attendings were texting during the interview with out looking at me.
The program director ... who has been there only for 3 years , and only one year w fellows , as they have not had any fellows for last 2 years ...she was very condescending . I asked her a few questions about the distribution of the rotations but the numbers of the months spent didn't add up. So I told her I didn't understand and she literally grabbed a piece of paper and a pen and wrote on it and double lined certain things and told me with a very ugly tone "do you know get it ???"
She belittle me and I turned down my head and said to her that I was sorry for asking her a question.
She later realized that she totally lost it there!!
Im not even a fellow , just an applicant and I was about to cry. Can't imagine how she treats the fellows and now I see why they don't have anybody . Looking at the blogs I think they are correct. Is malignant.
Last guy said " well I didn't even read your CV", and I said "it doesn't surprise me , nobody did, makes me feel special"
I just want to say something for those who interviewed there... careful.
I proved what they said in the blogged 2 years ago now that I interviewed there.
And Program directors open your eyes !! Allowing behaviors like that in interviews where the attending spends 10 minutes texting is the worst marketing for your program and not even to talk about the explosive behaviors!!!
I want to stay in Texas for a family reason. Either in Dallas or Houston . What do u think about the following programs : Baylor Houston, UT Houston, UT southwestern and Baylor Dallas?
Would u rank Baylor Houston first because of its academic reputation? Coz I feel at the end all fellowship programs will train u enough to become competent nephrologist.
What was the main factor when u ranked the programs?its academic reputation, how friendly/approachable are the attendings or other factors?
Thanks
Hi,I got an interview invite from UPENN yesterday. I have not received any from Boston programs and I did not apply to any in NYC. My other invites include:
UTSW
Washington U
JH
Cleveland Clinic
U Washington
Northwestern
Hi,So in summary so far:
Prior to August interviews:
Yale
Brown
Temple and Jefferson in Philly
Baystate U Mass
Mount Sinai (NYC)
U Texas Southwestern
Wash U
Johns Hopkins
Cleveland Clinic
U. Washington
Northwestern
UPenn
After August:
UPMC (8/3)
Columbia (8/5)
MGH/BWH (Last week)
Jackson Memorial
Saint Louis University
Texas Tech El Paso/Lubbock locations
University of Arizona
Tulane
Oschner Clinic
Feel free to update with specific dates. Just compiled what everyone has been saying thus far.
So, only 38% programs filled. Worse than geriatrics.
Congrats to those who matched(essentially everybody).
WARNING to those who did not match in competitive fields like GI/Cards/PCCM. Hard luck, but DO NOT TAKE POST MATCH POSITION IN NEPHROLOGY JUST BECAUSE SOME "PRESTIGOUS PROGRAM" has a spot. this will be the worst decision you make as this fellowship is much more brutal than the one you originally applied for with terrible job prospects.
Do something else.
Let programs learn to function without fellows. They brought us into this mess. They must also bear the hardship.
So, only 38% programs filled. Worse than geriatrics.
Congrats to those who matched(essentially everybody).
WARNING to those who did not match in competitive fields like GI/Cards/PCCM. Hard luck, but DO NOT TAKE POST MATCH POSITION IN NEPHROLOGY JUST BECAUSE SOME "PRESTIGOUS PROGRAM" has a spot. this will be the worst decision you make as this fellowship is much more brutal than the one you originally applied for with terrible job prospects.
Do something else.
Let programs learn to function without fellows. They brought us into this mess. They must also bear the hardship.[/QUOTE
How does it matter? 2/3rd did not...the top tier programs probably filled but no one is safe as many will quit once they join and realize how brutal it is
Any idea which programs did not fill?
Also, those who matched into programs that hardly filled...QUIT NOW
I can assure you most of the university programs are filled up now. There is an increased interest from hospitalists and unmatched PCCM fellows given overlap between these disciplines. Faculty are actively mentoring young hospitalists, who have expressed their desire to become nephrologists.Nephrology still has about 170 unfilled positions. My friend who went unmatched into cardiology got 2 or 3 cold calls calls from nephrology fellowships condoling that he could not get into cardiology and then offering him a nephrology position in their program . Complete desperation on part of programs. At some point they will start paying recruiters to snag them candidates.
This is probably the most important thing one can say to those who went unmatched in other fields.
Renal has become a joke. Fellowship positions need to be slashed if this speciality is to be saved.
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
nephrology jobs. - what kind of buyers market is this where you are paid less than hospitalist and given hopes that pay will get better once you become a partner in 2-3 or how many yrs or may be never
On one hand avg starting salary of nephrologist still remains same anywhere from 150 k to 180 k ( from my experience ), whereas starting pay for hospitalist is increasing every yr (look at various hospitalist job sites)
At the same time, new changes in payment system including MACRA will put a dent nephrology pay.
Reality is that in private practice nephrologists are stretching themselves to see more pts and maintain their salary and its not gonna get better in future.
I am currently in my second year of nephrology Fellowship and bit disappointed after my job interviews. Yes, Job situation is better than 2012-2013, but the amount of work to be done with a salary between 180-200 max is ginormous. Most places want 2 weekends to be covered (obviously after a 5 day work M-F). Job description with some employers i interviewed looks like i will have to see 15-20 inpatients and 7-18 outpatients Plus dialysis rounds (dialysis units) in certain days (unsure how many Pts) every day. When i interviewed as hospitalist it felt like a red carpet welcome, but some Neph employers made me feel like they are doing a favor by giving me a job. Most of them will not give a partnership until after year 2 or 3 or even 4. You will be employed for 2-3 years and after that there is no guarantee for partnership. They say if both parties mutually agree they will give partnership, which means that they can say goodbye to you after making you slog for 2-3 years and then again with another job you have to start from scratch. Hospital employed nephrology positions pay better with upto 300K salary but the amount of work is worse than what i have listed above including placing lines in night. Some fellowship programs are starting to train candidates who have no residency in US ( due to shortage of fellows) and some have plans to start fellowship where a week of hospitalist rounding is done so candidates don't suffer financially. With this said, there are going to be more nephrologists (Less demand and more supply is already an big issue). I felt like there are more jobs advertised, but when i call most of them are solo practitioners listing their job and they can't find anybody for years as people have joined and left to become hospitalists. When i went to ASN to interview with some large private employers, i was startled to see 20-30 graduates been interviewed for 2 positions. Joining with a solo practitioner is usually a disaster unless its your own family, so most candidates go for large private groups who have 30-100 physicians in 1-2 states. I don't want to sound kind of pessimistic here but there are certain advantages to do this fellowship. My knowledge of acid/base/ckd and even internal medicine has increased by many folds and am very happy how much i learned. But when it comes to the realities of finding a job am little disappointed. I feel doing academic nephrology is not a bad deal as you are on consult service only 3-6 months of year depending on the location and rest of year is research/CKD clinic which helps with a good lifestyle if you are ok with a paycut ( awesome option for e.g. Physician couples). Do not compare yourself with Hospitalist salaries who work for 6 months of year and base pay is around 250-280K (increased in last 3 years) with most employers+RVU=300-350K and more income if you take extra shifts on week off time. I will keep here everybody updated and i am kind of leaning back to becoming a hospitalist unless i find a reasonable job which i haven't so far. Well there a tons of nephrologists working as hospitalist anyways and i will be one of them. Inspite of all this, i don't regret doing fellowship as am a better physician now. Thanks for reading my post.
I am currently in my second year of nephrology Fellowship and bit disappointed after my job interviews. Yes, Job situation is better than 2012-2013, but the amount of work to be done with a salary between 180-200 max is ginormous. Most places want 2 weekends to be covered (obviously after a 5 day work M-F). Job description with some employers i interviewed looks like i will have to see 15-20 inpatients and 7-18 outpatients Plus dialysis rounds (dialysis units) in certain days (unsure how many Pts) every day. .
Nothing is brutal. Don't push the panic button. Match doesn't give an accurate estimate of interest in nephrology. You also need to take scramble or post-match recruitment into consideration.Brutal. I think 1 person in the last 5 years in my "top tier" residency went into nephrology.