Official 2016-2017 Nephrology Fellowship Application Cycle

[sandoram]

but how many visa needing FMGs are there in those specialties..there are some, but i would imagine the numbers are greater in nephrology...

I don't think visa has any issue here , I did not need any visa and it did not make any difference as i still did not find good jobs as there is no such a job exist in nephrology . most of the job I found was a a hick work from 7 am to 10 pm rounding in 3-4 different places driving 40-60 miles every where and the best starting salary was around 170-180 .
I don't think the visa are the main blamed as there are visa candidates in all medicine specialities including hospitalist , you guys need to be more realistic when discussing this issue .

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[rokshana]

I don't think visa has any issue here , I did not need any visa and it did not make any difference as i still did not find good jobs as there is no such a job exist in nephrology . most of the job I found was a a hick work from 7 am to 10 pm rounding in 3-4 different places driving 40-60 miles every where and the best starting salary was around 170-180 .
I don't think the visa are the main blamed as there are visa candidates in all medicine specialities including hospitalist , you guys need to be more realistic when discussing this issue .

can i ask? how much money are you expecting?

 

[juggernaut16]

can i ask? how much money are you expecting?

Salary offered in Metropolis on the East coast is as low as 120K-130K. Unlike IMGs, AMGs and Caribbean graduates do have significant amount of student loans and they need money to pay their loans and take care of themselves and their family.

 

[Nephdoc99]

Ok..you are still talking about shortage...No use explaining. Your blaming visa candidates for this mess?????
How many img cardiology, pccm, hemonc fellows are jobless or doing hospitalist? If you really enjoy nephro..advocate a serious reduction in spots, else nephrology will be talked about in history text books

I am not blaming IMGs for the issues with nephrology--those are well described in other posts and other threads. I am just stating that the perception of there being a lack of jobs is driven by IMGs who have limitations based on visa requirements and graduates who have geographic restrictions. I can only speak for my local market, but there has been good job opportunities both in private practice and with hospital-based employers every year and our fellows who were US graduates or permanent residents were the only ones to get those jobs. They didn't even bother to interview the H1B candidates. Fellowship spots will naturally decline over time if the present situation continues (which looks like the reality for the foreseeable future) as it makes no sense to maintain fellowships with excessive supply if there's no way to fill the positions.

I don't think visa has any issue here , I did not need any visa and it did not make any difference as i still did not find good jobs as there is no such a job exist in nephrology . most of the job I found was a a hick work from 7 am to 10 pm rounding in 3-4 different places driving 40-60 miles every where and the best starting salary was around 170-180 .
I don't think the visa are the main blamed as there are visa candidates in all medicine specialities including hospitalist , you guys need to be more realistic when discussing this issue .

I have to assume you had a geographic restriction that limited your job search, if this was the case. I work for a university affiliated hospital-based employer, have 50-60 dialysis patients within the metropolitan area (within 5-10 miles of my office), work 24 weeks a year on hospital service, and have a general nephrology clinic once a week. I work 8-6 most days, and cover weekends 6-8 times per year. I started out in the range you describe, but was making significantly more than that within 2 years.

 

[Scope guy]

guys you are failing to understand that more than 50% spots in nephrology are filled by IMGs. You cant just ignore the fact that there arent jobs out there for someone who slogged 2 years in a hard fellowship. It is heartbreaking that these graduates are forced to do hospitalists when their real passion is in nephrology. And people dont want to reduce spots? Again says a lot about academic attending's selfishness to have fellows take calls overnight and weekends and refuse to acknowledge that these people may not get jobs.

 

[rokshana]

guys you are failing to understand that more than 50% spots in nephrology are filled by IMGs. You cant just ignore the fact that there arent jobs out there for someone who slogged 2 years in a hard fellowship. It is heartbreaking that these graduates are forced to do hospitalists when their real passion is in nephrology. And people dont want to reduce spots? Again says a lot about academic attending's selfishness to have fellows take calls overnight and weekends and refuse to acknowledge that these people may not get jobs.

isn't there a bit of responsibility on the part of the applicant to know the job market? especially if they have visa issues or other things that would limit them from getting a job?

i mean its not ALL about money (otherwise those of us that specialized in non procedural IM subspecialties would not necessarily go into said subspecialties), but the ability to get A job that is reasonable would make a difference to most.

and the reason that 50% of the spots are IMG is because its not attractive to AMGs...you think EVERYONE going into GI is that passionate about scoping...the dollars help...

 

[nephro007]

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[Henle10]

I wish we could keep this thread focused on what it was created for. It is for residents who are committed to a career in nephrology and are already in the application cycle. If you would like to continue to bash the field, please create an alternative thread.

 

[Docdoc123456]

Salary offered in Metropolis on the East coast is as low as 120K-130K. Unlike IMGs, AMGs and Caribbean graduates do have significant amount of student loans and they need money to pay their loans and take care of themselves and their family.

Is it sounds funny and ridiculous that you go for a fellowship and as mentioned above your salary in North East is 120-130 LOL . Guys hospitalised make 250 by working 2 weeks , we are doctors not np .

 

[thierryhenry]

I wish we could keep this thread focused on what it was created for. It is for residents who are committed to a career in nephrology and are already in the application cycle. If you would like to continue to bash the field, please create an alternative thread.

+1

 

[Scope guy]

isn't there a bit of responsibility on the part of the applicant to know the job market? especially if they have visa issues or other things that would limit them from getting a job?

i mean its not ALL about money (otherwise those of us that specialized in non procedural IM subspecialties would not necessarily go into said subspecialties), but the ability to get A job that is reasonable would make a difference to most.

and the reason that 50% of the spots are IMG is because its not attractive to AMGs...you think EVERYONE going into GI is that passionate about scoping...the dollars help...

If you did nephro fellowship - did you feel whatever the specialty you dreamt as a resident is the same when you did fellowship? I would say definitely not. You probably were INTERESTED to do nephro as a resident but as a fellow you understand the minute details of the fellowship and specialty.

If ASN and all other nephro societies are mum about the specialty, without advocating what is right for the field, how wud you expect a resident to know all that? Again these selfish attitudes is what is killing a major field. I know a fellow whose PD did not even help with jobs after fellowship. Thats so rude.

Accept there is a problem. Reduce positions to match job market. Increase positions in future if need arises.

 

[Henle10]

Anyone receive an interview from UPMC yet?

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

I wish we could keep this thread focused on what it was created for. It is for residents who are committed to a career in nephrology and are already in the application cycle. If you would like to continue to bash the field, please create an alternative thread.

seriously... 100% agree

 

[Docdoc123456]

If you did nephro fellowship - did you feel whatever the specialty you dreamt as a resident is the same when you did fellowship? I would say definitely not. You probably were INTERESTED to do nephro as a resident but as a fellow you understand the minute details of the fellowship and specialty.

If ASN and all other nephro societies are mum about the specialty, without advocating what is right for the field, how wud you expect a resident to know all that? Again these selfish attitudes is what is killing a major field. I know a fellow whose PD did not even help with jobs after fellowship. Thats so rude.

Accept there is a problem. Reduce positions to match job market. Increase positions in future if need arises.

My friend , most of the program directors will not help finding a job rather than giving a letter of recommendation .
Guys this is informed consent process now all of you knows what is going on with nephrology and if any of you interested in pursuing nephrology fellowship good luck .

 

[Lasix26]

Can any one share interview information .. Has any one got invited from Boston and NYC programmes ?? What about UPENN?

 

[Henle10]

I got an interview invite from UPENN yesterday. I have not received any from Boston programs and I did not apply to any in NYC. My other invites include:

UTSW
Washington U
JH
Cleveland Clinic
U Washington
Northwestern

 

[Henle10]

Has anyone received an invite from U of M or UPMC?

 

[quickshot]

I also got an invite from UPenn. I applied primarily to New York programs with a couple north of that (1 Boston, 1 Connecticut). Got an interview from Mt. Sinai.

Still early in the game.

 

[Lasix26]

Thanks for your replies I got

Yale
Brown
Temple
Jefferson
Bastate UMass

Haven't heard from Boston programmes or Penn yet . Let's keep sharing our interview calls ... Thanks

 

[nephro007]

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[nephro007]

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[efrologo]

Congrats..suggest you wait before scheduling these ...some of the above ones are not even worth going to...you will get much better ones in a week or so..avoid from the 3rd one below..the first 2 are good

Miserable????? please elaborate ! what do you mean miserable? miserable in the amount of work ? miserable in the sense of being humiliated ? I can take work, not humiliation?

 

[nephro007]

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[efrologo]

In every aspect. You can take work? Elaborate what you mean by work?
Tell me your expectation for hard work...only then can I give you answer..

I don't be expect to be treated like a princess. I expect that work and exposure will teach me.
I expect to have vacation. I expect to see 15-20 patients a day. I like Saint Louis University program or Jackson Memorial Hospital.

 

[nephro007]

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[efrologo]

I am glad I asked your expectation. I will be honest. Expect to see 25-30 pts at least daily(can go up to 40/50), much much more on weekend. No one will treat you like a princess, trust me--that I can guarantee. On call frequently(coming at night multiple times to start dialysis). Jackson memorial-you might have to push patients beds there because support staff work minimal, avoid it. Days will be 13-14 hours long at least, weekends can be 36 hours-48 hours non stop . You will learn for sure--you will learn that cardiology/GI-on call is nigth call with post call "off"-Something a nephro fellow will never get. Nephro attendings are notorious for not helping the fellows or believing in post call, they live in an imaginary world, far from reality. you will have no time to study nephro even if you like it. Academicians will sleep at home in peace and spend time with their families whil you are killing yourself. This is truth, rest up to you, goodluck,

Are you an attending? Are you happy being a nephrologist? maybe you are getting rich and don't want to share and that's why you like to discourage people !! 40-50? Where did you hear that?

 

[quickshot]

Has anyone heard from the New York City programs (Cornell/Columbia/NYU) or MGH?

 

[drluc]

I am glad I asked your expectation. I will be honest. Expect to see 25-30 pts at least daily(can go up to 40/50), much much more on weekend. No one will treat you like a princess, trust me--that I can guarantee. On call frequently(coming at night multiple times to start dialysis). Jackson memorial-you might have to push patients beds there because support staff work minimal, avoid it. Days will be 13-14 hours long at least, weekends can be 36 hours-48 hours non stop . You will learn for sure--you will learn that cardiology/GI-on call is nigth call with post call "off"-Something a nephro fellow will never get. Nephro attendings are notorious for not helping the fellows or believing in post call, they live in an imaginary world, far from reality. you will have no time to study nephro even if you like it. Academicians will sleep at home in peace and spend time with their families whil you are killing yourself. This is truth, rest up to you, goodluck,

I am a nephrology fellow. When i was going through this post, it felt like nephro007 was talking about my program. I think most programs will fit this description.

As someone mentioned earlier , "that resident should apply with responsibility and know what they are getting into". I disagree with this , as many of these details about the fellowship are note revealed till you join.

Broadly speaking , residents see nephrology as hard working specialty with low pay , so it already screens out many applicant.

Rest of us, who are very interested in subject matter and dont mind the hard working part, still go ahead and apply for fellowship . But , then there is more to it, such as once you graduate and go on to private practice, it can become very monotonous and boring. As its mainly about dialysis for AKI or ESRD , and routine AKI consults.

Actually there is widespread perception among nephrology fellows, that nephrology fellows are not treated with respect , due to their busy crazy schedule, and seen as dialysis docs ( if you exclude transplant part) . After all , dialysis is the main and probably only intervention in AKI or progressive CKD ( except GN , which is minority, and you dont see it commonly , even at a big center )

 

[nephro007]

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[juggernaut16]

Please be judicious in attending interviews. Pick top 3 or 4 programs where you want to match. Don't interview more than 4 programs. Applicant is the "king" in current match. You will have maximum room for negotiation at the time of joining fellowship and little to none when you are searching for elusive nephrology job.

 

[juggernaut16]

Are you an attending? Are you happy being a nephrologist? maybe you are getting rich and don't want to share and that's why you like to discourage people !! 40-50? Where did you hear that?

For fellows, 40-50 patients/day is an exaggeration. Most academic programs cap their fellows at 20-25 patients/day.

However, in private practice it is not uncommon to see up to 40-50 patients/day. Time management is key, you should be efficient enough to see a new consult in 15-20 min and follow up visit in 10 minutes including time for documentation. As reimbursements for nephrology continue to dwindle, you will be expected to see increased volume of patients.

 

[nephro007]

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[nephron87]

Any correlation between program ranking and the quality of training?
What would be an appropriate number of interviews to go to?

 

[nephappl]

No correlation; the good one is the fellow not the program; at the end all of us do the same.
Number of interviews ? maybe one; here in our rural hospital on the east coast one very average hospitalist was taken by OHSU and the only thing he needed was an application and a telephone interview. The sad reality of nephrology these days

 

[Lasix26]

Heard from UPMC , Mount Sinai in NYC this week

 

[nephron87]

No correlation; the good one is the fellow not the program; at the end all of us do the same.
Number of interviews ? maybe one; here in our rural hospital on the east coast one very average hospitalist was taken by OHSU and the only thing he needed was an application and a telephone interview. The sad reality of nephrology these days

Thanks
So, can somebody give insight on the top 10 programs rather than the "malignant" ones?

 

[nephroperson123]

Does anyone have any information about the following programs: George Washington, George town, and mayo clinic in Arizona?

 

[bludragon03]

Thanks
So, can somebody give insight on the top 10 programs rather than the "malignant" ones?

Check this out:
http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/rankings/nephrology

 

[juggernaut16]

Check this out:
http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/rankings/nephrology

The ranking is not based on quality of fellowship but on other factors like patient safety, physician performance, etc. For example, UF Gainesville and Cedars-Sinai are ranked ahead of U Penn, Wake Forest, UAB or UW. This information should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[juggernaut16]

No correlation; the good one is the fellow not the program; at the end all of us do the same.
Number of interviews ? maybe one; here in our rural hospital on the east coast one very average hospitalist was taken by OHSU and the only thing he needed was an application and a telephone interview. The sad reality of nephrology these days

Have some programs stopped conducting in-person interview?

 

[nephappl]

Looks like .....
Really sad; years ago you had to show research, posters, experience and good LOR just to get a few interviews and now positions are given away to whoever walks
We posted for a job a few months ago and got 25+ CVs in 2 days.

 

[efrologo]

I see a lot of negative comments but I still have not gotten discouraged from applying to nephrology!!! I'm actually very excited !!! I finally got all my documents uploaded today !! I hope is not late !!!

I came to this country 9 years ago and got into family medicine because I didn't get into internal medicine , finished FM then my waiver then got my green card , now I'm a 3rd year in IM after being FM attending but so excited to apply to Nephro!!!

Is it late to apply now in August ?

Thanks

 

[quickshot]

I see a lot of negative comments but I still have not gotten discouraged from applying to nephrology!!! I'm actually very excited !!! I finally got all my documents uploaded today !! I hope is not late !!!

I came to this country 9 years ago and got into family medicine because I didn't get into internal medicine , finished FM then my waiver then got my green card , now I'm a 3rd year in IM after being FM attending but so excited to apply to Nephro!!!

Is it late to apply now in August ?

Thanks

IM and FM trained, whew! It will be a tough road when you get your Nephrology spot but best of luck to ya!

And you should still get some interviews applying in August for sure.

 

[quickshot]

Heard from Columbia...hopefully the NYC floodgates start to open

 

[nephron87]

Heard from Columbia...hopefully the NYC floodgates start to open

did anybody hear from Vanderbilt?

 

[juggernaut16]

I see a lot of negative comments but I still have not gotten discouraged from applying to nephrology!!! I'm actually very excited !!! I finally got all my documents uploaded today !! I hope is not late !!!

I came to this country 9 years ago and got into family medicine because I didn't get into internal medicine , finished FM then my waiver then got my green card , now I'm a 3rd year in IM after being FM attending but so excited to apply to Nephro!!!

Is it late to apply now in August ?

Thanks

Are you for real?

 

[efrologo]

Are you for real?

Ha ha !!!

 

[Scope guy]

I see a lot of negative comments but I still have not gotten discouraged from applying to nephrology!!! I'm actually very excited !!! I finally got all my documents uploaded today !! I hope is not late !!!

I came to this country 9 years ago and got into family medicine because I didn't get into internal medicine , finished FM then my waiver then got my green card , now I'm a 3rd year in IM after being FM attending but so excited to apply to Nephro!!!

Is it late to apply now in August ?

Thanks

gotta be kidding me. when ppl ask abt nephro, i recommend them to wait until december for match results, look at all open positions, pick the program u wanna go and call them. u r so far ahead in this race. good luck

 

[nephro007]

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[nephron87]

I totally agree with this statement. This does not apply for fellowships

I heard that ivy league hospitals do not necessarily offer good training.. what would be the to-go-to programs then?