Official 2009/2010 rank list help thread

[Scaredshizzles]

I am sure there are some people deciding between the so-called top medicine programs... how would you decide between MGH and UCSF? Other than location preference...

I am thinking either Heme/Onc or GIM as a possible future careers. Its probably frivolous agonizing over which to rank #1... just want to hear different perspectives/thoughts

Hopkins definitely has a slight edge as far as prestige is concerned...and is probably better for h/o. Hopkins has the longer tradition, more recognized around the world. It is kind of like those years where Harvard undergrad is beat out by some other Ivy or non-Ivy in the US News rankings....It doesn't matter, you should still go to Harvard undergrad because down the line, it will look more impressive.

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[dudetaf]

Hopkins definitely has a slight edge as far as prestige is concerned...and is probably better for h/o. Hopkins has the longer tradition, more recognized around the world. It is kind of like those years where Harvard undergrad is beat out by some other Ivy or non-Ivy in the US News rankings....It doesn't matter, you should still go to Harvard undergrad because down the line, it will look more impressive.

So you think Hopkins has the greatest 'brand-name' recognition? hmm.

 

[houstoncfh]

Hopkins definitely has a slight edge as far as prestige is concerned...and is probably better for h/o. Hopkins has the longer tradition, more recognized around the world. It is kind of like those years where Harvard undergrad is beat out by some other Ivy or non-Ivy in the US News rankings....It doesn't matter, you should still go to Harvard undergrad because down the line, it will look more impressive.

Your grandparents won't be as proud of you if you go to UCSF...just doesn't have that Ivy cachet, you know?

 

[Frugal Traveler]

Your grandparents won't be as proud of you if you go to UCSF...just doesn't have that Ivy cachet, you know?

... you've hit on the key point probably splitting the OP's decision.

I'm biased, so I am not going to say too much. Harvard vs. UCSF is a difficult decision. It really will come down to a gut feeling, your stage in life, and whether or not you want a one vs. three hospital system. There are other things like patient diversity, program culture, and service structure (ex. Bigelow).

 

[Scaredshizzles]

So you think Hopkins has the greatest 'brand-name' recognition? hmm.

I'd say Mass General (and I suppose BWH) is slightly above Hopkins, which is slightly more above UCSF. Obviously you're splitting hairs at this point, things like location are more important if that is a factor.

 

[tfom08]

Your grandparents won't be as proud of you if you go to UCSF...just doesn't have that Ivy cachet, you know?

It isn't what some people want to hear, but the name of your residency really does count for a lot. In general, what most people think of as the top 10 can be broken down like this.

Hopkins > UCSF > MGH = BWH (these two lose points because you have to actually explain to people that they are Harvard. If they were just called Harvard University SOM IM program, they would prob be higher.)

Next we have UPenn (nation's oldest, but loses points for sounding like a state school) > Duke > Mayo > WashU (loses points because you have to keep explaining where it's really located) > UChicago >>>>>>>>>>> Columbia (bottom for obvious reasons)

The name of your residency is always going to stick with you. Some people are going to want to be PC and say it's not that important and "just go where you are happy!". The people that say that are going to be the ones that never score with that hot chick at the bar, because she's too busy falling all over the guy who just told her he trained at Hopkins. Don't be that guy who leaves the bar every night wishing he trained at Hopkins and not some place nobody ever heard of. And yes, the bar story is a metaphor for your entire life. But it will also happen at the real bar.

 

[Frugal Traveler]

You've tapped into the public psyche wonderfully, tfom08.

 

[Scaredshizzles]

It isn't what some people want to hear, but the name of your residency really does count for a lot. In general, what most people think of as the top 10 can be broken down like this.

Hopkins > UCSF > MGH = BWH (these two lose points because you have to actually explain to people that they are Harvard. If they were just called Harvard University SOM IM program, they would prob be higher.)

Next we have UPenn (nation's oldest, but loses points for sounding like a state school) > Duke > Mayo > WashU (loses points because you have to keep explaining where it's really located) > UChicago >>>>>>>>>>> Columbia (bottom for obvious reasons)

The name of your residency is always going to stick with you. Some people are going to want to be PC and say it's not that important and "just go where you are happy!". The people that say that are going to be the ones that never score with that hot chick at the bar, because she's too busy falling all over the guy who just told her he trained at Hopkins. Don't be that guy who leaves the bar every night wishing he trained at Hopkins and not some place nobody ever heard of. And yes, the bar story is a metaphor for your entire life. But it will also happen at the real bar.

You can try to be funny all you want tfom, but in the end we all know you're gonna to rank one of the top 4 programs as your first choice. So I don't really find any point to your posts.

 

[houstoncfh]

Next we have UPenn (nation's oldest, but loses points for sounding like a state school) > Duke > Mayo > WashU (loses points because you have to keep explaining where it's really located) > UChicago >>>>>>>>>>> Columbia (bottom for obvious reasons)

Agree with above. Columbia's definitely at the bottom of the list, because then you'd be all like, "I'm going to Columbia," and then everyone's like, "I didn't know Colombia's training was that good. And I hear Bogota is kinda dangerous."

That's why their match list sucks. I mean they take their own, but otherwise, you're looking at community programs in Kentucky, Kansas, etc.

 

[dudetaf]

You can try to be funny all you want tfom, but in the end we all know you're gonna to rank one of the top 4 programs as your first choice. So I don't really find any point to your posts.

Like I said in my initial post, I am not really agonizing over my decision, per se... I think I'll be just as happy at MGH as I would be at UCSF... may be not Hopkins. I mainly wanted to get a sense of how other people (you guys and gals) are processing the decision of which you would rank #1 (assuming location does not factor into the decision).

 

[Snuffbox]

This is a great thread

 

[CoPaW16]

Does anyone know anything about the Mayo Jacksonville program?

 

[Scaredshizzles]

Hey guys, having a hell of a time trying to decide between these programs. For reference, I'm interested in cards. Appreciate whatever advice you guys can give- I'm dying trying to figure out what to do with these and would love another set of eyes!

1. BID
2. Cornell
3. UTSW
4. U-Chicago
5. Yale
6. Emory

I would at least consider switching 1 and 2...Other than that, I think you got it right.

 

[tfom08]

You can try to be funny all you want tfom, but in the end we all know you're gonna to rank one of the top 4 programs as your first choice. So I don't really find any point to your posts.

Thanks for the final verdict on my post. I actually think it was no less helpful than either of yours regarding this question.

"I'd say Mass General (and I suppose BWH) is slightly above Hopkins, which is slightly more above UCSF."

O RLY??? THX!

I'm glad you were able to successfully differentiate the prestige of four of the top IM programs in the nation by using your newly developed metric. Oh wait, it was just your opinion?

 

[Scaredshizzles]

Thanks for the final verdict on my post. I actually think it was no less helpful than either of yours regarding this question.

"I'd say Mass General (and I suppose BWH) is slightly above Hopkins, which is slightly more above UCSF."

O RLY??? THX!

I'm glad you were able to successfully differentiate the prestige of four of the top IM programs in the nation by using your newly developed metric. Oh wait, it was just your opinion?

I just find it highly lame that someone is constantly trying to make fun of people chasing reputations, when you're going to wind up picking one of the big 4....obviously which of those is tops is debatable, I just gave my opinion on that....I'm not sure if you're trying to prove that you're not a gunner or something by trying to pass off that reputation isn't that important to you. For what it's worth, I doubt you are a gunner...caring to be a part of something reputable doesn't make you a gunner...how you treat others along the way is what defines gunner. I just think you're afraid of the gunner label, and so you make all these attempts at humor. I will write you a check for $10,000 if you shock us all and pick one of the non-big 4 as your top choice...I'd need some proof before writing that check of course..

 

[Romario11]

PLease help me rank..
I am looking for : best reputation and fellowship placement with Cards and GI as my most likely fellowship choices
I don't have any preferences in city, location weather or any other factors..



UT Southwestern
U of Iowa
Univ of Minnesota
Univ of Kansas Medical Center
UMass
U of Arizona
Henry ford
Drexel


Thanks alot..

 

[IlliniMD]

What were people's thoughts about this program? I went to a fair number of places and was surprised by it. Haven't seen much said about it and didn't know if anyone had any input.

 

[chitown82]

What were people's thoughts about this program? I went to a fair number of places and was surprised by it. Haven't seen much said about it and didn't know if anyone had any input.

It's a great program. Dr. Vogelman is awesome and Wisconsin is a EIP site so they are doing some cool things with the curriculum/schedule. Residents seemed pretty happy. Madison is actually pretty cool. Fellowship matches are mostly at Wisconsin/mid-west.

 

[IM Substance P]

What were people's thoughts about this program? I went to a fair number of places and was surprised by it. Haven't seen much said about it and didn't know if anyone had any input.

UW-Madison is a great place to train. The pros include a smaller residency class, cushier schedule, outstanding and respected PD, great fellowship match, and extremely friendly atmosphere. Opportunities for research abound, and UW-Madison is one of the most respected institutions for many realms of basic science research. Primary care is highly valued too, but obviously most residents specialize.

I don't believe the residents have as much autonomy as they do at other institutions. The racial diversity of the patients is certainly lacking, and overall the place is quite white (faculty, residents, nurses, etc.). Almost all of the residents are married too -- you can see that as a plus if you're married too or a minus if you're not.

Many people love Madison. It's a college town and a state capital. Most of the social scene revolves around what the Badgers are doing (football, hockey, etc.) and dowtown bars (college and non-college bars are plentiful). You also have a decent music scene, some culture, a good farmers' market in the summer, plenty of summer festivals, excellent bicycle commuter access, relatively affordable housing, etc.

It's an insanely liberal town with a lot of hippies though; stay clear if that's not your scene.

 

[gutonc]

What were people's thoughts about this program? I went to a fair number of places and was surprised by it. Haven't seen much said about it and didn't know if anyone had any input.

I interviewed there several years ago and, were it not for the fact that my wife didn't really care for Madison (not sure why), it would have been #1 or 2 for me. I don't think there's a better PD out there than Dr. Vogelman (others as good, sure, but likely none better).

I've mentioned this before but, when I asked him the same question I asked every PD I got to interview with ("what changes do you envision in your program in the next 1-3 years?"), he responded with a 20 minute discussion of the 1 and 5 year plans that were already in place, the 10 year plan that was about to be implemented and the 20 year plan that was being discussed. Most answers I got were on the order of "well...we're thinking about starting a Night Float system."

 

[AsROMA]

Please need some feedback ROL

University of Kansas
CASE-MetroHealth
Brown
Providence Portland Medical Center
University of Tx-Houston
University of Tx- Galveston
USC
NY Hospital of Queens


AMG looking to do GI or Cardio or Hem/Onc felloship
Thank you

 

[obiwan]

PLease help me rank..
I am looking for : best reputation and fellowship placement with Cards and GI as my most likely fellowship choices
I don't have any preferences in city, location weather or any other factors..



UT Southwestern
U of Iowa
Univ of Minnesota
Univ of Kansas Medical Center
UMass
U of Arizona
Henry ford
Drexel


Thanks alot..

southwestern is by far the program that will carry you the farthest for fellowship placement with all the other programs pretty distant in the background

 

[IDforMe]

Ok, I'll bite and post. I'm a little too close to my ROL at this point and am finding I change it every time I look at it again.

I'm interested in going into ID (obvious from my screen name, I know) and would like to find a strong internal med program with great teaching and a decent ambulatory component to the curriculum, with opportunities for research in ID and also for international health electives/track. Although I'm definitely drawn to a less urban environment, I'd be willing to live anywhere for 3 years.

My gut list so far stands as follows:
Mayo (Rochester)
Johns Hopkins (Bayview)
Dartmouth
U of Virginia
Yale (Primary Care)
U of Wisconsin-Madison

Just interested in how you guys and gals would rank these places given my considerations above. Thanks!

 

[gutonc]

Ok, I'll bite and post. I'm a little too close to my ROL at this point and am finding I change it every time I look at it again.

I'm interested in going into ID (obvious from my screen name, I know) and would like to find a strong internal med program with great teaching and a decent ambulatory component to the curriculum, with opportunities for research in ID and also for international health electives/track. Although I'm definitely drawn to a less urban environment, I'd be willing to live anywhere for 3 years.

My gut list so far stands as follows:
Mayo (Rochester)
Johns Hopkins (Bayview)
Dartmouth
U of Virginia
Yale
U of Wisconsin-Madison

Just interested in how you guys and gals would rank these places given my considerations above. Thanks!

Based on what you say that you want, I'd move UW-M and Yale into the top 3 (doesn't really matter which of the top 2 you displace or how you arrange those 3) and otherwise leave it alone. Not a bad list overall and, for what you want, matching at the bottom (wherever that is on this list) won't be the worst thing that happens to you in the next 10 years...by far.

 

[houstoncfh]

Ok, I'll bite and post. I'm a little too close to my ROL at this point and am finding I change it every time I look at it again.

I'm interested in going into ID (obvious from my screen name, I know) and would like to find a strong internal med program with great teaching and a decent ambulatory component to the curriculum, with opportunities for research in ID and also for international health electives/track. Although I'm definitely drawn to a less urban environment, I'd be willing to live anywhere for 3 years.

My gut list so far stands as follows:
Mayo (Rochester)
Johns Hopkins (Bayview)
Dartmouth
U of Virginia
Yale
U of Wisconsin-Madison

Just interested in how you guys and gals would rank these places given my considerations above. Thanks!

Gerald Mandell used to be on faculty at UVA (now retired), but I think UVA's ID division enjoys some of the prestige that goes along with having the dude who wrote the book on ID around -- plus Charlottesville's about as awesome as small town's get.

 

[AsROMA]

Please need some feedback ROL

University of Kansas
CASE-MetroHealth
Brown
Providence Portland Medical Center
University of Tx-Houston
University of Tx- Galveston
USC
NY Hospital of Queens


AMG looking to do GI or Cardio or Hem/Onc felloship
Thank you

I know most people in this forum are looking at top 10 places for IM, I'd appreciated if anyone can give suggestions.
thanks again

 

[IDforMe]

Wow, thanks for the super quick responses, gutonc and houstoncfh!

I forgot to mention another factor weighing in on my list. Although it's likely a non-issue to some, I've trained in an environment with a completely integrated EMR except during one rotation with paper charts, where I found myself immensely frustrated. Between being a slow writer (although a very legible one--probably the reason I write so slowly) and being unable to interpret other notes in the chart as well as dealing with the obscene number of misordered tests by the unit clerk, I am hesitant to deal with this throughout my residency. UVA should have an EMR in place by Jan. 2011 and no word on when Waterbury Hospital (where the Yale Primary Care residents spend ~50% of their time) will have an inpatient EMR.

 

[IDforMe]

Please need some feedback ROL

University of Kansas
CASE-MetroHealth
Brown
Providence Portland Medical Center
University of Tx-Houston
University of Tx- Galveston
USC
NY Hospital of Queens


AMG looking to do GI or Cardio or Hem/Onc felloship
Thank you

I can't provide much help for you, as I haven't interviewed at the vast majority of the places you're considering. I was in Galveston, however, and so would bring up a point that was important for me. Apparently many of their senior general internal medicine faculty left after Ike, and since their new attendings are very young, one of the comments I found concerning was that these folks were still too unexperienced to add much to the resident's differentials. I think there's a lot to learn in medicine just by seeing things for 10 or 20 or 30 years and in any program, it helps tremendously to be taught by someone who has learned the "tricks of the trade" so to speak.
Hope this was helpful to you, and best of luck with your ROL.

 

[gutonc]

Wow, thanks for the super quick responses, gutonc and houstoncfh!

I forgot to mention another factor weighing in on my list. Although it's likely a non-issue to some, I've trained in an environment with a completely integrated EMR except during one rotation with paper charts, where I found myself immensely frustrated. Between being a slow writer (although a very legible one--probably the reason I write so slowly) and being unable to interpret other notes in the chart as well as dealing with the obscene number of misordered tests by the unit clerk, I am hesitant to deal with this throughout my residency. UVA should have an EMR in place by Jan. 2011 and no word on when Waterbury Hospital (where the Yale Primary Care residents spend ~50% of their time) will have an inpatient EMR.

Both of my hospitals finally have EMR but I suffered through a year and a half without one at our university hospital. Nice to have, but not a deal breaker by any means.

 

[IDforMe]

Both of my hospitals finally have EMR but I suffered through a year and a half without one at our university hospital. Nice to have, but not a deal breaker by any means.

Thats why these places are still in my top choices, although admittedly not as high as they would be with an EMR. I still have more soul searching to do on how much suffering for 1.5 versus the full 3 years of residency respectively should/will weigh in to my decision, though.

I really appreciate you advice as someone who's spent time waiting for the technological era to assimilate your institution.

 

[gutonc]

Please need some feedback ROL

University of Kansas
CASE-MetroHealth
Brown
Providence Portland Medical Center
University of Tx-Houston
University of Tx- Galveston
USC
NY Hospital of Queens

AMG looking to do GI or Cardio or Hem/Onc felloship
Thank you

Curious rank list with no clear bias that I can figure out. FWIW, I'm getting a little tired of people posting that they want to do some random, well-compensating specialty when they have clearly given no particular thought to any of them. If you don't have a specialty in mind, just say that...that's cool.

Here's how I see your list:
KU=Brown=USC=UTH > UTMBG=Case=Prov Portland >>> NYHQ

Since you're essentially undifferentiated from a specialty standpoint, taking that into account is ridiculous.

 

[Mjs12DO]

Please need some feedback ROL

University of Kansas
CASE-MetroHealth
Brown
Providence Portland Medical Center
University of Tx-Houston
University of Tx- Galveston
USC
NY Hospital of Queens


AMG looking to do GI or Cardio or Hem/Onc felloship
Thank you

I'm not too familiar with Brown or NY Hospital of Queens, but I will give my two cents.

1. KU-pretty good program in the midwest. Will probably have a good chance at fellowship inhouse or within the midwest.
2. Brown-I hear a pretty good program, but do not know a lot about.
3. Case (MetroHealth)-awesome PD in Dr. McFarlane- a real advocate for residents. Very good chance to get fellowship inhouse. Decent chance to get fellowship at Case University or the Cleveland Clinic.
4. Providence Portland-about as good of a community program anywhere. They have a very solid match list. I think your best chances for fellowship will probably be in the northwest, but you could go elsewhere.
5. USC-I think you can get a fellowship inhouse here or one of the many within CA. Not my type of program, but to each his own.
6. UT Galveston-used to be a great program before Hurricane Ike. They are trying to rebuild their faculty. You can definitely get a fellowship inhouse.
7. NY Hospital of Queens-I do not know anything about this program.
8. UT-Houston-Recently on probation. I hate the word malignant, but this has been said about this program. I think this program makes residency much more stressful and difficult than it should be-IMHO.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[ResidentMD]

Curious rank list with no clear bias that I can figure out. FWIW, I'm getting a little tired of people posting that they want to do some random, well-compensating specialty when they have clearly given no particular thought to any of them. If you don't have a specialty in mind, just say that...that's cool.

Here's how I see your list:
KU=Brown=USC=UTH > UTMBG=Case=Prov Portland >>> NYHQ

Since you're essentially undifferentiated from a specialty standpoint, taking that into account is ridiculous.

I agree....

Out of curiosity, gutonc, would you put KUMC on par with those other programs? I would probably put Brown #1 because it is in the East, and one would probably make more connections in the New England area. KU is in the middle of nowhere, enough has been said about USC, and UTH, while good is nothing to brag about.

I havent been to any of these programs (I cancelled a few), but from what I have heard and seen (fellowship matches), I would probably say

Brown > UTH = USC > KU.

The OP couldnt be more random (one of the reasons this post did not get replies) because these 4 places are in 4 completely different areas of the US - West Coast, East Coast, Midwest and South, and as these programs are by and large in the same tier, I would be surprised if a regional preference is not given consideration in the final ROL.

And I support gutonc's stand on people posting completely random lists in completely random places with "I want GI or Cards or Heme-Onc". But I chose to keep silent because tempers seem to be flying high in this forum currently. But yes, the ROL patterns that gutonc has described are definitely getting annoying.

Other programs: I have heard good things about Providence Portland. I would rank it at the same tier of Galveston and Metrohealth, though UTMB-Galveston is improving by leaps and bounds post the Ike destruction. As I said, again, you should be taking regional preference into account as well, because your strongest chance for fellowships are inhouse or in the surrounding areas (city/state).

 

[Mjs12DO]

Ok, I'll bite and post. I'm a little too close to my ROL at this point and am finding I change it every time I look at it again.

I'm interested in going into ID (obvious from my screen name, I know) and would like to find a strong internal med program with great teaching and a decent ambulatory component to the curriculum, with opportunities for research in ID and also for international health electives/track. Although I'm definitely drawn to a less urban environment, I'd be willing to live anywhere for 3 years.

My gut list so far stands as follows:
Mayo (Rochester)
Johns Hopkins (Bayview)
Dartmouth
U of Virginia
Yale (Primary Care)
U of Wisconsin-Madison

Just interested in how you guys and gals would rank these places given my considerations above. Thanks!

1. Mayo
2. Yale
3. UVA
4. UW-Madison
5. JH Bayview
6. Dartmouth

All great programs- Good luck.

 

[Mjs12DO]

PLease help me rank..
I am looking for : best reputation and fellowship placement with Cards and GI as my most likely fellowship choices
I don't have any preferences in city, location weather or any other factors..



UT Southwestern
U of Iowa
Univ of Minnesota
Univ of Kansas Medical Center
UMass
U of Arizona
Henry ford
Drexel


Thanks alot..

1. UTSW- You will work hard, but great clinical training that will take you places.
2. Iowa-Great program. Dr. Vogelgesang the PD is phenomenal. Location is better than I thought. Iowa City is a decent college town.
3. Minnesota
4. KU
5. UMass
6. U of Arizona
7. Drexel
8. Henry Ford

I think 3-6 could easily be arranged differently, but this is how I feel.

Good luck.

 

[Mjs12DO]

Any opinions on Creighton vs St Louis University? I don't know if I want to subspecialize, but if I do, it'll probably be Hem-Onc or GI.

I would definitely say Creighton. Plus if you move to Omaha you will have two decent programs to try to get a fellowship at.

 

[ResidentMD]

I would definitely say Creighton. Plus if you move to Omaha you will have two decent programs to try to get a fellowship at.

I have had a huge question on my mind always - WHY does not SLU send good number of people to WashU for fellowships? Arent they in the same city? Is it just that WashU looks down on SLU and will take someone from any other big name program, rather than rely on someone (and probably letters) from someone in the same city, who in all probability they may know?

 

[dsprague12]

I have had a huge question on my mind always - WHY does not SLU send good number of people to WashU for fellowships? Arent they in the same city? Is it just that WashU looks down on SLU and will take someone from any other big name program, rather than rely on someone (and probably letters) from someone in the same city, who in all probability they may know?

Why doesn't Hopkins take all U. Maryland residents or Penn take all Jeff/Drexel/Temple residents? Those places attract the cream of the crop. Hopefully they would consider applicants from those programs in the same city if they have the requisite qualifications, but I'm not sure why proximity would outweigh performance in the fellowship match.

 

[ResidentMD]

Why doesn't Hopkins take all U. Maryland residents or Penn take all Jeff/Drexel/Temple residents? Those places attract the cream of the crop. Hopefully they would consider applicants from those programs in the same city if they have the requisite qualifications, but I'm not sure why proximity would outweigh performance in the fellowship match.

You misunderstood my question. If you look at the number of residents SLU sends to WashU from each class, it is unexpectedly low.

Proximity wouldnt outweigh performance...but there must be at least a few good residents in each class? Jeff and Temple, or even UMD arent so bad. But again, Jeff sends very few to UPenn for fellowships.

 

[dsprague12]

You misunderstood my question. If you look at the number of residents SLU sends to WashU from each class, it is unexpectedly low.

Proximity wouldnt outweigh performance...but there must be at least a few good residents in each class? Jeff and Temple, or even UMD arent so bad. But again, Jeff sends very few to UPenn for fellowships.

I don't think I misunderstood. I assume cardiology is WashU's biggest fellowship with about 10 fellows/year. They're going to fill about half those spots with their own residents. Thus, for their biggest fellowship they're going to have 5 spots open for outside applicants every year. I imagine they get applicants from (being conservative) at least 100 programs including all the top programs. Its just going to be difficult for a SLU resident to stand out in that group of applicants that's likely to include people from the top Boston/NYC/Baltimore programs and all the rest of the top places for that matter. The same will apply for all other fellowships which aren't as big as cardiology (which again probably has only 5 outside slots per year). There just simply aren't that many spots at a place as competitive as WashU is for SLU residents to match in to.

 

[Shellseashell]

Please help me rank these schools! I don't have that great of a list but I'm still hoping for the best. Particularly having trouble with Olive View vs UCI they both seem like quality programs with good fellowship matches. Your input is greatly appreciated

UCI
UCLA- Olive View
Scripps Green
Kaiser LA

 

[gooddoc2010]

First of all, congratulations to many of the posters on this forum who have really great programs to choose from. There must be some selection bias on here

I am having a difficult time with deciding spots 3 and 4 on my list realizing that the #3 spot is probably the furthest down it would ever go.

1. Washington University in St. Louis
2. Hopkins
3. UPMC
4. Case Western
5. UVA
6. Maryland
7. Cedars-Sinai

My conundrum is that Case Western felt like an amazing place to train. I felt all warm and fuzzy after leaving there as if it was a really good match. However, of course they do not have the most stellar fellowship match record. UPMC does significantly better on the fellowship match yet, i didnt get that same warm and fuzzy feeling. I'm likely interested in cards or crit care. Both cities are kinda lame so thats a wash Any thoughts?

 

[souljah1]

First of all, congratulations to many of the posters on this forum who have really great programs to choose from. There must be some selection bias on here

I am having a difficult time with deciding spots 3 and 4 on my list realizing that the #3 spot is probably the furthest down it would ever go.

1. Washington University in St. Louis
2. Hopkins
3. UPMC
4. Case Western
5. UVA
6. Maryland
7. Cedars-Sinai

My conundrum is that Case Western felt like an amazing place to train. I felt all warm and fuzzy after leaving there as if it was a really good match. However, of course they do not have the most stellar fellowship match record. UPMC does significantly better on the fellowship match yet, i didnt get that same warm and fuzzy feeling. I'm likely interested in cards or crit care. Both cities are kinda lame so thats a wash Any thoughts?

For pure (in-patient) internal medicine training -> Hopkins is by far the best program on your list.

For cardiology match purposes -> Hopkins then Wash U

For critical care training or strength of critical care -> Pitt is the best on your list (pulmonary would be debatable, but for Crit Care Pitt is better than Wash U and Hopkins)

For you original questions -> Pitt over Cleveland Clinic, unless you know for certain that you'd want to go to Cleveland for Cardiology -> then join the majority of their housestaff who also chose to go there for that reason.

 

[S Chicago]

Shellseashell-- I'm having similar issues, except just with UCI and Scripps Green. So I'm also looking for any responses to that!


I need help! I know what my bottom 4 are... but the top 7 are driving me NUTS.

-UC Irvine
-Madison
-Medical College of Wisconsin
-Loyola
-Rush
-Scripps Green
-St Jo, Denver (I know.... but Denver is so great!)


I prefer a bigger program with fellowship opportunities-- but having said that, I really just want to be in the best program possible in terms of reputation.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[boomerdoc]

I love first posters.

Yes, apparently all their 3 years are spent in the VA at Baylor. Patients who come to Ben Taub General Hospital, where you can see pretty much any disease in the world, magically heal on their own. As do those at St Lukes Episcopal.

Cornell - just came off probation 6 months ago. More than enough said - please, nobody else rank it high. I will rank it high enough and match there because no one else would.

Please provide more basis for your opinions than just randomly trashing programs.

"I've either interviewed at, away rotated, or have friends at most of those programs."
What about that statment comes across to you as random trashing. Honesty is what people are looking for here. That is what I gave. If you want a program just off probation because it has the name "Cornell" on it fine. But put that on your wall so I can avoid your office. We don't need anymore insecure ego driven physicians anymore. I have noticed this message board is an ego trip for most people. It's very sad. " oh i interviewd at Mayo & Mayo & Mayo & Ceveland & Scripps & Hopkins. I don't know where to go." Dude, if you can't pick one of those with your eyes closed and get a good education you need more help than this message board can offer. I bet everyone on this message board got a 260 on their steps too if you asked"

My statment holds, this guy is looking for a good clinical program with GI fellowship opportunities and I feel I gave a good honest answer. Catfish is apparently not ego driven as he interviewed at a nice mix of programs.

Good luck Catfish, follow your gut and you'll be fine. Excellent internal medicine education does exhist outside the east coast and Houston. Go where you felt the most at home and you feel you will be happy for 3-6 years. That is the right place.

 

[ResidentMD]

"I've either interviewed at, away rotated, or have friends at most of those programs."
What about that statment comes across to you as random trashing. Honesty is what people are looking for here. That is what I gave. If you want a program just off probation because it has the name "Cornell" on it fine. But put that on your wall so I can avoid your office. We don't need anymore insecure ego driven physicians anymore. I have noticed this message board is an ego trip for most people. It's very sad. " oh i interviewd at Mayo & Mayo & Mayo & Ceveland & Scripps & Hopkins. I don't know where to go." Dude, if you can't pick one of those with your eyes closed and get a good education you need more help than this message board can offer. I bet everyone on this message board got a 260 on their steps too if you asked"

My statment holds, this guy is looking for a good clinical program with GI fellowship opportunities and I feel I gave a good honest answer. Catfish is apparently not ego driven as he interviewed at a nice mix of programs.

Good luck Catfish, follow your gut and you'll be fine. Excellent internal medicine education does exhist outside the east coast and Houston. Go where you felt the most at home and you feel you will be happy for 3-6 years. That is the right place.

Do you know why Cornell went on probation? Do you know if they have addressed those issues? Then if someone wants to go to Cornell, then why would you be dissuading him solely on the basis of the fact that the program was on probation 6 months ago?

I am not going to address the personal attacks - will stick to rank order issues on this thread.

 

[IDforMe]

Ok, I'll bite and post. I'm a little too close to my ROL at this point and am finding I change it every time I look at it again.

I'm interested in going into ID (obvious from my screen name, I know) and would like to find a strong internal med program with great teaching and a decent ambulatory component to the curriculum, with opportunities for research in ID and also for international health electives/track. Although I'm definitely drawn to a less urban environment, I'd be willing to live anywhere for 3 years.

My gut list so far stands as follows:
Mayo (Rochester)
Johns Hopkins (Bayview)
Dartmouth
U of Virginia
Yale (Primary Care)
U of Wisconsin-Madison

Just interested in how you guys and gals would rank these places given my considerations above. Thanks!

So any thoughts/changes to the suggestions that have been made if you add Vandy to the list? I just interviewed there today and liked it more than I expected I might. I'd also appreciate it if anyone cares to include their thought process on the listing. Thanks again you guys. I really appreciate your input!

 

[holoo]

hey guys,

I seriously need help with my rank list. I am planning to go into Cardiology and do not have a preference as far as the location but care more about the program so that I can match successfully into a fellowship.

Here is my list

Cleveland Clinic
University of Rochester
Rush
Loyola
UIC
Dartmouth
NYU
USC
University of Miami

Thanks for your help!!!

 

[chitown82]

hey guys,

I seriously need help with my rank list. I am planning to go into Cardiology and do not have a preference as far as the location but care more about the program so that I can match successfully into a fellowship.

Here is my list

Cleveland Clinic
University of Rochester
Rush
Loyola
UIC
Dartmouth
NYU
USC
University of Miami

Thanks for your help!!!

NYU>UIC=Dartmouth>Rochester=Miami>Rush=Loyola>Cleveland Clinic>USC

 

[gutonc]

NYU>UIC=Dartmouth>Rochester=Miami>Rush=Loyola>Cleveland Clinic>USC

Agree with the caveat that, if you want to match to CCF for Cards (and you could do MUCH worse), you should rank it higher. Also, I would move Crotchester up to =UIC and Dartmouth but that's a judgment call and location-wise it ranks lower.