Would you say ob/gyn is competitive compared to other specialties? Can it be considered a good match for an older female non-trad if she seems youthful and has no intefering commitments?
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Ob/Gyn residency for non-trad
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I'm 35, just graduated last month and I'm starting residency next month. I don't think age has anything to do with it.
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I'll be 34 when I graduate in 2013. Good to know I shouldn't feel that old.
I'll just ignore the grey hairs.
You guys are super young
Well, you're not going to find many 60 year olds graduating from med school. 35-40 is about the oldest you're going to get. Anything older than that is VERY rare. There's someone in the class below me who's like 41 or 42, but again that's rare. Out of the whole school (400+ students), she's the only one >40.
Thanks for your responses and congrats on your residency.
I would be a 53 y/o med school grad, so about 56 after residency. I just wanted to get a feel for any age limitation in this particular specialty, as opposed to primary care or IM which may have wider acceptance range. Being that everyone ages differently, with all other things being optimum (grades, performance, etc.), is it your opinion that chron age would supersede biological age in the apps process for this curriculum, since it consists of some surgical procedures?
Your observation is noteworthy but not sure if it resolves the inquiry; the fact that residencies are full of young students may be more indicative of happenstance than ability, in that not many individuals choose to become doctors and/or prefer specialties later in life.
I would be a 53 y/o med school grad, so about 56 after residency. I just wanted to get a feel for any age limitation in this particular specialty, as opposed to primary care or IM which may have wider acceptance range. Being that everyone ages differently, with all other things being optimum (grades, performance, etc.), is it your opinion that chron age would supersede biological age in the apps process for this curriculum, since it consists of some surgical procedures?
Your observation is noteworthy but not sure if it resolves the inquiry; the fact that residencies are full of young students may be more indicative of happenstance than ability, in that not many individuals choose to become doctors and/or prefer specialties later in life.
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I am about to start my 3rd year of medical school. I will be 51 when I graduate. I plan on becoming an ob-gyn and so far no one has tried to steer me away from this choice.
Are there many >50 yo starting residency? No, but there are some. I've met a 55 year old 2nd year family med resident and know of a 51 year old general surgery resident.
Just do what you love and don't let anyone tell you it can't be done. The key is to be realistic as to your energy level and abilities. Keep fit, physically and mentally because OB takes some endurance and stamina.
You can do it. Good luck.
Are there many >50 yo starting residency? No, but there are some. I've met a 55 year old 2nd year family med resident and know of a 51 year old general surgery resident.
Just do what you love and don't let anyone tell you it can't be done. The key is to be realistic as to your energy level and abilities. Keep fit, physically and mentally because OB takes some endurance and stamina.
You can do it. Good luck.
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Dotsero, it was quite a treat to open this thread today; your post to me is the shot I need to keep going. Granted I am jumping ahead as I am not in med school yet but I know the years can pass quickly and I like a ball I can keep my eye on. In being a woman's advocate I realize there are other ways to embrace female medicine – midwife, doula, PA, NP, but I prefer MD for the broader range of clinical knowledge and surgical aspect.
In that vein, since surg was my other strong interest, your mention of a 51 y/o surgical resident is heartening, along with an article I recently read of a 49 y/o who matched into plastics (!). I think this trend will continue as adcoms realize the value of the motivation and dedication of non-trads.
Ob residency hours have been legislatively improved within the last five years and that has resulted in increased applications, but there are still 24-hour rotations perhaps a few times a week to be dealt with. Honestly, I suffer from insomnia a few times a week now so that challenge may make no difference to me.
In that vein, since surg was my other strong interest, your mention of a 51 y/o surgical resident is heartening, along with an article I recently read of a 49 y/o who matched into plastics (!). I think this trend will continue as adcoms realize the value of the motivation and dedication of non-trads.
Ob residency hours have been legislatively improved within the last five years and that has resulted in increased applications, but there are still 24-hour rotations perhaps a few times a week to be dealt with. Honestly, I suffer from insomnia a few times a week now so that challenge may make no difference to me.
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Ob/gyn is a surgical job. Not just " some" surgical procedures. I did not understand this when I was a premed.
I think it's a big deal to go into a surgical field at any age, but over 50 adds special challenges. There are people who do it very successfully, but you need great stamina, good health, and the ability to sleep anywhere, any time. Insomnia will be a problem. You need to cope with the hierarchy of surgery without resentment. And, it is one thing to be a 60 yo surgeon who has been practicing for 30 yrs and has evolved, vs a 60 yo novice who is still developing their coping mechanisms for fatigue and stress. What's the plan b if you find that you're exhausted and don't enjoy long nights and standing in the or? What will you do instead in your practice? Recognize that resident work hours may decrease, but attendings work very very long hours (24+ not unusual). I looked at all of these issues very seriously before choosing a specialty. The question is not whether you can get in, it's why you want to do ob, and whether you're ready for all of these challenges.
I think it's a big deal to go into a surgical field at any age, but over 50 adds special challenges. There are people who do it very successfully, but you need great stamina, good health, and the ability to sleep anywhere, any time. Insomnia will be a problem. You need to cope with the hierarchy of surgery without resentment. And, it is one thing to be a 60 yo surgeon who has been practicing for 30 yrs and has evolved, vs a 60 yo novice who is still developing their coping mechanisms for fatigue and stress. What's the plan b if you find that you're exhausted and don't enjoy long nights and standing in the or? What will you do instead in your practice? Recognize that resident work hours may decrease, but attendings work very very long hours (24+ not unusual). I looked at all of these issues very seriously before choosing a specialty. The question is not whether you can get in, it's why you want to do ob, and whether you're ready for all of these challenges.
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Thanks for your input. Something to consider.
My impression was that any complicated/long/high risk surgs are referred out to subspecialties, like MFM or Onc. Ob deliveries can be long but the specialty is not a heavily surgical one as I see it.
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I think it is more surgical than you expect: all the OBs I know consider themselves to be surgeons. The American College of Surgeons lists it under "Surgical Specialties." A generalist OB will routinely do C-sections, hysterectomies, myomectomies, and laparoscopic and open surgeries for ectopics, abscesses, etc. You are correct that very complex cases are referred, but the scope of practice is broad. Our generalist OBs spend long hours in the OR and very little time actually catching babies.
OBs generally do not have time to spend hours on a "long" vaginal delivery; nurses or other staff will work with the patient while she pushes. The OB usually goes into the room just for the last part, when the baby actually comes out.
There are many models of practice, and some exceptions to the above, but if you really want to catch babies instead of doing surgery, then you should be looking at other options (midwife, rural family med, etc.). An OB residency is a lot of OR time and a very, very fast pace with very long hours. It is a surgical residency.
OBs generally do not have time to spend hours on a "long" vaginal delivery; nurses or other staff will work with the patient while she pushes. The OB usually goes into the room just for the last part, when the baby actually comes out.
There are many models of practice, and some exceptions to the above, but if you really want to catch babies instead of doing surgery, then you should be looking at other options (midwife, rural family med, etc.). An OB residency is a lot of OR time and a very, very fast pace with very long hours. It is a surgical residency.
I don't see how midwifery trumps OB in terms of sleep preservation, since a full unmedicated delivery can last for 3 days. OB focus on last phase of delivery offers more flexibility.
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I don't get it. What do you want to do? Do you want to be a doctor? If you want to sleep, you should stay far away from birth in any capacity.
If your primary goal is to maximize sleep, then I suggest emergency medicine, radiology, derm or other "lifestyle" specialties with more "flexibility".
p.s. just read some of your other posts in other forums. I'll add psych to the list of good options for you.
If your primary goal is to maximize sleep, then I suggest emergency medicine, radiology, derm or other "lifestyle" specialties with more "flexibility".
p.s. just read some of your other posts in other forums. I'll add psych to the list of good options for you.
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I initially thought that once one gets through ob/gyn residency, they can join a group or become a hospitalist and pretty much shape their practice, such as focusing more on gyn, non-emergency surgery or daytime births.
(BTW radiology would be a cool specialty, likewise for derm. But why EM? I thought that involves a lot of call.)
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I agree. Psychology is my other passion, however I am not crazy about psychiatry, which has a different approach and patient type.
It's interesting how specific I am in choosing specialties; there is no crossover. I guess certain life experiences and abilities are to blame.
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You don't do call in EM, you do shifts. When you're off, you're off.
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No call in EM. Shift work entirely.
As far as OB GYN goes. The specialty has more flexibility than in the old days. Solo practices are less likely nowadays due to overhead costs and the fact that people hate being on call 24/7.
There are "laborists" who act as hospitalists. The jobs are out there. You will be giving up any elective gyn procedures. As long as you're okay with that, you should be fine.
Most practices are a group setting with X number of partners. In my area, each doc takes a 24 hour call, some have experimented with a modified night float, with one doc taking over night call only for an entire week at a time.
There is practice flexibility but again, you have to find the right practice. And I will say that the attendings I work with all hustle hard. They see 35-40 patients a day in their office with maybe 5-10 of them being prenatal visits, the rest being GYN related and will take 24 hour call and operate the next day as much as possible.
Another attending does outpatient GYN only with no OB at all (This attending is independently wealthy though).
OB is where you make your money. It will be very difficult, IMO, to walk into a practice and say "I don't do OB, just gyn" because that means you're not bringing money into the practice. You have to pay your dues.
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I thought that it was the other way around?
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Nope, GYN only generally make significantly less than OB heavy OB and GYN practice. OB still has fairly decent reimbursements compared with general GYN surgical procedures.
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I see. That's very interesting. I guess I got that impression because of the OB units in my area closing due to not making enough money, but that could very well just be the hospital side of things.
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I do agree with Meowmix. OBGYN is a surgical specialty and our residents work harder than most surgical specialties with the exception of general surgery. I have 25 year old residents who are stressed and exhausted after a crazy month on the labor floor, so to be honest I don't know if a 51 year old can handle the pace of an extremely busy residency.
This is really case dependent. I am 49 and am in better shape than I was at 25. I live a healthier life than most of my medical school peers. I've worked 80hr weeks as a nurse in a busy ED and ran circles around my much younger co-workers.
So yeah if I am phyically and mentally out of shape don't take the time to get off my butt from time to time, eat junk food and party all the time, being successful in an OB residency would be a long shot. But this would also be true of a 25 year old who did not take care of themselves.
Watch the stereotypes
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I fully believe that attitude and stamina are way more important than age. I would not hesitate to hire a resident over 50. My point was that you cannot underestimate the challenges, and you need to know your strengths. To succeed as an older resident, especially in a surgical field, you need to be at least twice as good and work twice as hard, in order to be taken seriously. It is a big deal.
I am disappointed that a residency coordinator would have such bias. I'm glad that the people in my programs have been more open-minded.
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I am not being bias, I am being realistic. Maybe there are residency programs that a 51 year old can handle. I am speaking about a program like mine, that I know that it would be difficult for an older person to handle. I am not saying impossible, just harder. I give her alot of credit if she can handle it and if she does get accepted to a residency program, then more power to her.
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I must say, with the duty hour changes (especially with the newer ones coming), and my experience at a high volume program, I would disagree with you. I don't think age is as large a factor as people think. Personality, time management, commitments outside of residency (e.g. marriage, family), prior work experience (e.g. multi-tasking experience), physical condition (fitness) play a more substantial role that age alone. In fact, the maturity a 50 year-old would bring (assuming said party is mature
) would provide significant advantage over some of the younger counterparts.My two cents worth.
I must say, with the duty hour changes (especially with the newer ones coming), and my experience at a high volume program, I would disagree with you. I don't think age is as large a factor as people think. Personality, time management, commitments outside of residency (e.g. marriage, family), prior work experience (e.g. multi-tasking experience), physical condition (fitness) play a more substantial role that age alone. In fact, the maturity a 50 year-old would bring (assuming said party is mature
My two cents worth.
Right on!
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Do you understand that publicly airing your opinion is flagrantly inappropriate for someone in your position? Does your program director know you are doing this? Because you are basically saying: no way is an older applicant going to make it into "my" residency program. And that kind of "realism" is 100% illegal.
I know you have been doing this work for many years, and you have shared a lot of valuable experience and advice. You are fully entitled to think whatever you like about us old geezers. But stating this opinion on a public message board, speaking in your role as residency coordinator, is as inappropriate for older applicants as it would be for pregnant, male, or any other visibly "other" applicant.
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