NYU vs SIUE (IS)

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DK2

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So I already paid the deposit for NYU and about to sign for an apt but SIUE just gave me an acceptance call.
Here are the pros and cons from my perspective:

School 1: NYU
Pros:
  • Prestige of having a DDS degree from one of the Top 5 dental schools in the nation
  • Experience living in an urban area and in NY
  • Will be able to negotiate a higher salary at corporate dental groups leveraging NYU dental degree. Especially in locations they are desperate in.
  • If I'm going to suffer in dental school, at least I will be suffering in one of the greatest cities in the world
  • Many opportunities to make new friends and develop connections
Cons:
  • Will graduate with roughly $250k of debt
  • I wont get to bring my car

School 2: Southern Illinois University In-State
Pros:
  • Low cost of tuition/living
    • Basically will graduate with no student debt as parents will pay for everything
  • 3 hours away from my parents home
  • I will get to bring my car that I love very much (profile pic)
  • Smaller class size (doesn't matter as much for me, but I know people make a big deal out of it)
Cons:
  • Location of school and living area
  • Will have to burn all the NYU merchandise and scrubs I purchased
If anyone has pros and cons, or any advice (other than "go to the cheaper school") please let me know.

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So I already paid the deposit for NYU and about to sign for an apt but SIUE just gave me an acceptance call.
Here are the pros and cons from my perspective:

School 1: NYU
Pros:
  • Prestige of having a DDS degree from one of the Top 5 dental schools in the nation
  • Experience living in an urban area and in NY
  • Will be able to negotiate a higher salary at corporate dental groups leveraging NYU dental degree. Especially in locations they are desperate in.
  • If I'm going to suffer in dental school, at least I will be suffering in one of the greatest cities in the world
  • Many opportunities to make new friends and develop connections
Cons:
  • Will graduate with roughly $250k of debt
  • I wont get to bring my car

School 2: Southern Illinois University In-State
Pros:
  • Low cost of tuition/living
    • Basically will graduate with no student debt as parents will pay for everything
  • 3 hours away from my parents home
  • I will get to bring my car that I love very much (profile pic)
  • Smaller class size (doesn't matter as much for me, but I know people make a big deal out of it)
Cons:
  • Location of school and living area
  • Will have to burn all the NYU merchandise and scrubs I purchased
If anyone has pros and cons, or any advice (other than "go to the cheaper school") please let me know.
What are the "top 5" dental schools in your rankings? And what makes NYU one of the best schools in the country in your opinion, their clinical experience? Is it worth it to take the extra cost to go there?
 
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So the cost of NYU is 250k and the cost of SIUE is basically burning NYU merchandise/scrubs and the 5k deposit? Please please please go to SIUE.. Surely having to purchase new gear is better then spending an additional 250k.. Nothing NYU offers will offset coming out of school with no debt.. How much you make out of school will be dependent on you and where you want to live/work, if you want to be an employee, associate or owner, if you decide to specialize, and whatever else you negotiate... Huge difference when someone is making 150k with no debt compared to 150k with 250k of debt
 
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What are the "top 5" dental schools in your rankings? And what makes NYU one of the best schools in the country in your opinion, their clinical experience? Is it worth it to take the extra cost to go there?
NYU is a pretty consistent top 5 on many lists.
Best Dental Schools in the U.S. (thoughtco.com)
Top Dental School Rankings - ScholarshipPath
QS World University Rankings for Dentistry 2020 | Top Universities

Its apparent NYU graduates are very capable due to the heavy clinical exp so finding a good position in any location won't be an issue.
I don't know why you're answering my question with more questions.

So the cost of NYU is 250k and the cost of SIUE is basically burning NYU merchandise/scrubs and the 5k deposit? Please please please go to SIUE.. Surely having to purchase new gear is better then spending an additional 250k.. Nothing NYU offers will offset coming out of school with no debt.. How much you make out of school will be dependent on you and where you want to live/work, if you want to be an employee, associate or owner, if you decide to specialize, and whatever else you negotiate... Huge difference when someone is making 150k with no debt compared to 150k with 250k of debt
With all due respect, I feel this is a pretty 1 dimensional answer as money seems to be the only driving factor for making a decision. There's more to life than just money in my opinion.
Also Aspen dental is offering $175k-250k a year (plus signing bonus) for certain locations, and paying off a loan with that salary doesn't seem too bad. I could pay it off real quick and move to a different location afterwards.
Is having no debt really that great?
 
NYU is a pretty consistent top 5 on many lists.
Best Dental Schools in the U.S. (thoughtco.com)
Top Dental School Rankings - ScholarshipPath
QS World University Rankings for Dentistry 2020 | Top Universities

Its apparent NYU graduates are very capable due to the heavy clinical exp so finding a good position in any location won't be an issue.
I don't know why you're answering my question with more questions.


With all due respect, I feel this is a pretty 1 dimensional answer as money seems to be the only driving factor for making a decision. There's more to life than just money in my opinion.
Also Aspen dental is offering $175k-250k a year (plus signing bonus) for certain locations, and paying off a loan with that salary doesn't seem too bad. I could pay it off real quick and move to a different location afterwards.
Is having no debt really that great?

It seems like you've already made up your mind so I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of this thread lol.
Also, I'm not sure if NYU has the reputation you think it does within the dental field but I'm open to being corrected!
 
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It seems like you've already made up your mind so I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of this thread lol.
Also, I'm not sure if NYU has the reputation you think it does within the dental field but I'm open to being corrected!
yup
mind already made
please come back to this thread in a year or two after graduation and let us know how it turned out...
 
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It seems like you've already made up your mind so I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of this thread lol.
Also, I'm not sure if NYU has the reputation you think it does within the dental field but I'm open to being corrected!
Yup mind is 95% made, but the 5% is what I'm trying to explore.

But all I hear is "go to the cheaper school!"
 
NYU is a pretty consistent top 5 on many lists.
Best Dental Schools in the U.S. (thoughtco.com)
Top Dental School Rankings - ScholarshipPath
QS World University Rankings for Dentistry 2020 | Top Universities

Its apparent NYU graduates are very capable due to the heavy clinical exp so finding a good position in any location won't be an issue.
I don't know why you're answering my question with more questions.


With all due respect, I feel this is a pretty 1 dimensional answer as money seems to be the only driving factor for making a decision. There's more to life than just money in my opinion.
Also Aspen dental is offering $175k-250k a year (plus signing bonus) for certain locations, and paying off a loan with that salary doesn't seem too bad. I could pay it off real quick and move to a different location afterwards.
Is having no debt really that great?
"Is having no debt really that great?" ... I mean would you rather dish out 2-5k a month (depending on how aggressive you go) on paying for student loans or keep it and enjoy some finer things in life, invest, spend on family or significant other.. Yes money isn't "be-all, end-all" but no dental school is really going to provide that much of an advantage.. NYU has a good alumni network but are you going to stay there afterwards? Wanna go back to Illinois and stay closer to family? If you plan on coming back to Illinois, you'd be better off going to SIUE because your network will be based in the surrounding areas.. You may make more in some locations but those same locations could also be more expensive to live in, especially those urban areas.. Money doesn't create happiness, but it does lessen the burden of a lot of stressors in life which therefore can lead to more opportunities for happiness.

Having no debt means you get to keep more of your paycheck. Keeping more of your paycheck means you'll build wealth quicker. If you build wealth quicker, you can enjoy other aspects of your life more often and at a younger age while you still have the energy to do them. Aspen Dental is all over the place. I live in North Dakota and we have a young dentist here that graduated from NOVA a few years ago.
 
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"Is having no debt really that great?" ... I mean would you rather dish out 2-5k a month (depending on how aggressive you go) on paying for student loans or keep it and enjoy some finer things in life, invest, spend on family or significant other.. Yes money isn't "be-all, end-all" but no dental school is really going to provide that much of an advantage.. NYU has a good alumni network but are you going to stay there afterwards? Wanna go back to Illinois and stay closer to family? If you plan on coming back to Illinois, you'd be better off going to SIUE because your network will be based in the surrounding areas.. You may make more in some locations but those same locations could also be more expensive to live in, especially those urban areas.. Money doesn't create happiness, but it does lessen the burden of a lot of stressors in life which therefore can lead to more opportunities for happiness.

Having no debt means you get to keep more of your paycheck. Keeping more of your paycheck means you'll build wealth quicker. If you build wealth quicker, you can enjoy other aspects of your life more often and at a younger age while you still have the energy to do them. Aspen Dental is all over the place. I live in North Dakota and we have a young dentist here that graduated from NOVA a few years ago.
I do very much agree that money does lessen the burden of a lot of stressors. Honestly, if it wasn't for SIUE's location this decision would be a no-brainer.
Your point of moving back to Illinois and having an established network there from SIUE definitely brings up an idea I haven't really thought about.
It appears I'll have to plan further out into the future to make this decision.
 
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I do very much agree that money does lessen the burden of a lot of stressors. Honestly, if it wasn't for SIUE's location this decision would be a no-brainer.
Your point of moving back to Illinois and having an established network there from SIUE definitely brings up an idea I haven't really thought about.
It appears I'll have to plan further out into the future to make this decision.
Best of luck with your decision. regardless, 250k isn't going to handicap you in the long run. But if you do decide to specialize in the future, a lot of programs have tuition which will increase that burden. Then comes everything else in life such as a wife, kids, house, car, ect.. Come at this decision from every angle and you'll be okay.
 
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Covid killed NYC. I lived and worked in LES for two years and moved out as paying that rent didn’t make sense anymore. The vast majority of the people I know also moved out.

I don’t think the city will be near what it was for a long time, so I strongly strongly advise you not to choose NYU because you think NYC is the greatest city in the world.

You will absolutely regret it.

You’ll be offered virtually the same opportunities, but for free at SIUE. There’s a reason everyone says go to the cheapest...
 
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Yup mind is 95% made, but the 5% is what I'm trying to explore.

But all I hear is "go to the cheaper school!"
You have an entire army of dental students and residents and dentists YELLING "don't do it." Sounds like you're going to ignore all of us anyway but let me try one more time for your future's sake.

Consider this... you're at a dinner. It's one of those dinners you didn't really want to go to, but some friend-group nonsense made you go. This restaurant is awful. The food sucks and they hardly give you anything on your plate, the staff are superficial and annoying, you've gotten diarrhea here before on multiple occasions, the bathrooms are disgusting and out of soap, and the other customers are white trash. Oh, it's also absurdly overpriced. So basically like an Applebee's or restaurant in a casino. So you get the menu. 6oz steak with two sticks of asparagus and sauce - $59.99. Cesar Salad with grilled chicken - $34.99. Which do you order? You ask your buddy about the steak - he just ordered it last week. "It was meh, not that good" he says. But you're thinking, "IDK, I don't really like salad much, and the steak is supposed to be fancier. I mean, for $60 it must be better. Besides, I'm here already, I need to order something, so I should just order what I want."

ORDER THE DAMN SALAD. The meal is going to suck either way. Tomorrow you'll wake up and forget what you ate last night. Your bank account will not.

That's dental school.

~~~

- "Prestige of having a DDS degree from one of the Top 5 dental schools in the nation"

What is dental school prestige? The school name MEANS NOTHING! I've heard dentists harp on NYU as having poor training. I've heard students harp on NYU's clinical requirements. I'm not sure people are impressed by an NYU "prestigious" education in the real world? Most patients don't know what NYU is. They probably think it's a public school. I hate to say it - and I think it's wrong people talk about schools this way sometimes - but graduating from NYU is... not a wonderful and positive thing to a lot of people. I'll leave it at that.

- "Experience living in an urban area and in NY"

Most dentists go back to suburban areas. NYC is a monster. And maybe you're 100% a big city person. Even then, you can live without it for 4 years. Besides, you're not going there to live your best life as a young professional. You're going as a student who needs every second studying, sleeping, and eating. Not like you're enjoying the city Monday-Friday. Come back as a resident or young dentist and experience NYC the right way.

- "Will be able to negotiate a higher salary at corporate dental groups leveraging NYU dental degree. Especially in locations they are desperate in. "

I need a reference for this; I'm doubting this can be true. Why would corporate pay grads more who have less clinical experience than many other schools? You know who they do want? Kids saddled with oppressive debt. They pay more in undesirable areas for any dentist. Also, they don't need to bend the knee for anyone, specially in anywhere somewhat decent. They have hundreds of applicants every year.

"If I'm going to suffer in dental school, at least I will be suffering in one of the greatest cities in the world"

You have no idea of the suffering coming your way. Dental school is rough. I wish you and every other pre-dent the best. But the real suffering comes when those loan bills start rolling in. NYC is overrated, and is anything but relaxing.

"Many opportunities to make new friends and develop connections"

You'll be locked in school with young and successful classmates for 4 years. That builds great bonds anywhere. These "connections" you speak of, I don't know what they are. You get in, you pass, you graduate, you go get a real job or go to residency.

"Will graduate with roughly $250k of debt"

I won't harp on the details. People have done breakdowns elsewhere showing pre-dents how the debt will balloon to more than you're expecting and your take-home pay will be much lower than you expect. Even if mom and dad are paying for school, that money comes from somewhere. You take more now from the pot, expect less when you inherit what's left.

"I wont get to bring my car"

Change this to "I won't have to bring my car" and move it to the pro section.
 
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You have an entire army of dental students and residents and dentists YELLING "don't do it." Sounds like you're going to ignore all of us anyway but let me try one more time for your future's sake.

Consider this... you're at a dinner. It's one of those dinners you didn't really want to go to, but some friend-group nonsense made you go. This restaurant is awful. The food sucks and they hardly give you anything on your plate, the staff are superficial and annoying, you've gotten diarrhea here before on multiple occasions, the bathrooms are disgusting and out of soap, and the other customers are white trash. Oh, it's also absurdly overpriced. So basically like an Applebee's or restaurant in a casino. So you get the menu. 6oz steak with two sticks of asparagus and sauce - $59.99. Cesar Salad with grilled chicken - $34.99. Which do you order? You ask your buddy about the steak - he just ordered it last week. "It was meh, not that good" he says. But you're thinking, "IDK, I don't really like salad much, and the steak is supposed to be fancier. I mean, for $60 it must be better. Besides, I'm here already, I need to order something, so I should just order what I want."

ORDER THE DAMN SALAD. The meal is going to suck either way. Tomorrow you'll wake up and forget what you ate last night. Your bank account will not.

That's dental school.

~~~

- "Prestige of having a DDS degree from one of the Top 5 dental schools in the nation"

What is dental school prestige? The school name MEANS NOTHING! I've heard dentists **** on NYU as being a complete joke. I've heard students **** on NYU's clinical requirements as an abomination. Who is being impressed by an NYU "prestigious" education in the real world? Your patients don't know what NYU is. They probably think it's a public school. I hate to say it - and I think it's wrong people talk about schools this way sometimes - but graduating from NYU is... not a wonderful and positive thing to a lot of people. I'll leave it at that.

- "Experience living in an urban area and in NY"

Most dentists go back to suburban areas. NYC is a monster. And maybe you're 100% a big big city person. Even then, you can live without for 4 years. Besides, you're not going there to live your best life as a young professional. Your going as a student who needs every second studying, sleeping, and eating. Not like you're enjoying the city Monday-Friday. Come back as a resident or young dentist and experience NYC the right way.

- "Will be able to negotiate a higher salary at corporate dental groups leveraging NYU dental degree. Especially in locations they are desperate in. "

I need a reference for this, because I REALLY cannot believe this can be true AT ALL. Why would corporate pay grads more who have less clinical experience than many other schools? You know who they do want? Kids saddled with oppressive debt. They pay more in undesirable areas for any dentist. Also, they don't need to bend the knee for anyone, specially in anywhere somewhat decent. They have hundreds of applicants every year.

"If I'm going to suffer in dental school, at least I will be suffering in one of the greatest cities in the world"

You have no idea of the suffering coming your way. Dental school is rough. I wish you and every other pre-dent the best. But the real suffering comes when those loan bills start rolling in. NYC is overrated, and is anything but relaxing.

"Many opportunities to make new friends and develop connections"

You'll be locked in school with young and successful classmates for 4 years. That builds great bonds anywhere. These "connections" you speak of, I don't know what they are. You get in, you pass, you graduate, you go get a real job or go to residency.

"Will graduate with roughly $250k of debt"

I won't harp on the details. People have done breakdowns elsewhere showing pre-dents how the debt will balloon to more than you're expecting and your take-home pay will be much lower than you expect. Even if mom and dad are paying for school, that money comes from somewhere. You take more now from the pot, expect less when you inherit what's left.

"I wont get to bring my car"

Change this to "I won't have to bring my car" and move it to the pro section.
Golden post.

Agree 100% with everything you said. The connections part is probably one of the biggest misconceptions. Dentistry is not like a marketing or business job. You WILL have a job when you graduate. It likely may suck. Corps will love you. You are desperate at that point for just a guarantee of $$ when you gotta pay back thousands each month.

Having debt to pay down will make that first job suck much more.
 
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The connections part is probably one of the biggest misconceptions. Dentistry is not like a marketing or business job. You WILL have a job when you graduate. It likely may suck. Corps will love you. You are desperate at that point for just a guarantee of $$ when you gotta pay back thousands each month.

Having debt to pay down will make that first job suck much more.
A lot of people in my class (myself included) have yet to find a job and we are graduating in 7 weeks. We are all getting very desperate at this point lol. Corps have jobs but they are all at least 1.5 hour from the city. Thankfully I go to a state school and do not have that much debt so worst case scenario I can live in my parents' basement for a few months before starting to work. People with high debt load cannot afford to do the same thing. So again OP, don't go to NYU, go to your state school.
 
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Just going to echo somethings, as I also considered NYU and choose my state school instead. I have never heard a good thing about NYU except from people from NYU. Maybe it is just the group of dentists I know. To be fair, they mainly talk about how it has such a large class size. However, at the end of the day, there are EXCELLENT dental schools that provide EXCELLENT clinical exposure. I am not 100% NYU is such a place. Also, $250K for NYU? You have a scholarship, or guessing from your car, your parents are paying a hefty chunk? Ask your parents to put the 250K in VTI and check it out in 30 years. Additionally, what kind of apartment are you getting in NYC? Studio, 1 bedroom? You could pay 1/4 the price for something better in state. BUT it sounds like money doesn't matter. So on that note - I do not think NYU is as good as you think it is. I was kind of on that train for awhile, but at the end of the day it is the letters at the end of your name that matter and your clinical skill coming out of dental school. As most people will tell you, you do more in your first month out of dental school then you did your entire time in dental school. Also, what really makes you think you can negotiate a higher salary after NYU? You know for NY you have to do a 1 year residency to practice there right? If you leave NY people probably wont care you went to NYU. It might actually work against you. Like I said, I do not think NYU has the reputation you think outside of NY. Honestly, it probably has a worse reputation. Large class size, LARGE tuition, and ethical concerns.

Do it for your car- you don't want to leave that sweet ride behind.
 
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Not going to respond to everyone's posts individually, but I have thoroughly read everyone's post and all of this definitely made me put the decision into heavy reconsideration.
Golden post.

Agree 100% with everything you said. The connections part is probably one of the biggest misconceptions. Dentistry is not like a marketing or business job. You WILL have a job when you graduate. It likely may suck. Corps will love you. You are desperate at that point for just a guarantee of $$ when you gotta pay back thousands each month.

Having debt to pay down will make that first job suck much more.
I meant to say connections outside of dentistry. I'm aware I will land a job after graduating, but unlike most pre-dents, I'm not going to be satisfied with just being a dentist/specialist, working my way to owning my own practice, making good pay, retiring, then dying. I want to explore, innovate, expand, and develop new things in dentistry. I have many friends and met a lot of people in ny (analysts, consultants, traders for banks/firms, portfolio managers, tech developers etc) and I can tell just by living there I will meet many highly intelligent people and those with grandiose visions. <- That's probably the biggest reason I want to be in nyc and go to NYU.

Thank you to everyone. You all definitely made me realize I didn't know as much as I thought (esp about the 1 yr residency requirement I didn't know about, thanks @Lankers) and I need to do some more research before making a decision. Definitely pushed me to 50-50 from 95-5 now.
And I'm also going to do a lot more loan calculations.
 
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Obviously you don’t need to give private information, but without scholarship and financial assistance from parents (or yourself) it is pretty hard to get out without $600K debt if you have to live in NY (unless you live far away which will make living there a lot less fun).
You were right- you meet amazing people in cities like NYC. I lived in a city very similar and I agree with your sentiment. However read what I wrote closer- “were”. COVID has changed everything. Those people are likely gone from NYC. Who knows if they are coming back. Some sure, but how many? Plus, NYC is very dense urban center requiring stricter lockdown requirements- not to mention apparent political instability. I don’t think the type of people you are looking for will be in as much abundance as you think.
 
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Not going to respond to everyone's posts individually, but I have thoroughly read everyone's post and all of this definitely made me put the decision into heavy reconsideration.

I meant to say connections outside of dentistry. I'm aware I will land a job after graduating, but unlike most pre-dents, I'm not going to be satisfied with just being a dentist/specialist, working my way to owning my own practice, making good pay, retiring, then dying. I want to explore, innovate, expand, and develop new things in dentistry. I have many friends and met a lot of people in ny (analysts, consultants, traders for banks/firms, portfolio managers, tech developers etc) and I can tell just by living there I will meet many highly intelligent people and those with grandiose visions. <- That's probably the biggest reason I want to be in nyc and go to NYU.

Thank you to everyone. You all definitely made me realize I didn't know as much as I thought (esp about the 1 yr residency requirement I didn't know about, thanks @Lankers) and I need to do some more research before making a decision. Definitely pushed me to 50-50 from 95-5 now.
And I'm also going to do a lot more loan calculations.
Very Committed. I live in NYC for 10 years and I love here the metropolitan environment. My girlfriend is at Columbia Dental and I will be D1 this year at NYU. The tuition is high indeed, but you get the point. Dental school is not just a place to get a license and done (at least for us). There are a lot more things that we can explore, meet very intelligent people, and making connections from different fields. Follow your passion with motivations, actively look for and then explore, that is what I am going to do, too. Life is about the money, but not all about the money. If you passively choose NYU because you have no choice, then NYU is not the right school for you. But, surely you are not. You know what you are doing and will take advantage of it. Trust yourself!
 
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Very Committed. I live in NYC for 10 years and I love here the metropolitan environment. My girlfriend is at Columbia Dental and I will be D1 this year at NYU. The tuition is high indeed, but you get the point. Dental school is not just a place to get a license and done (at least for us). There are a lot more things that we can explore, meet very intelligent people, and making connections from different fields. Follow your passion with motivations, actively look for and then explore, that is what I am going to do, too. Life is about the money, but not all about the money. If you passively choose NYU because you have no choice, then NYU is not the right school for you. But, surely you are not. You know what you are doing and will take advantage of it. Trust yourself!
Says the pre-dent
 
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Very Committed. I live in NYC for 10 years and I love here the metropolitan environment. My girlfriend is at Columbia Dental and I will be D1 this year at NYU. The tuition is high indeed, but you get the point. Dental school is not just a place to get a license and done (at least for us). There are a lot more things that we can explore, meet very intelligent people, and making connections from different fields. Follow your passion with motivations, actively look for and then explore, that is what I am going to do, too. Life is about the money, but not all about the money. If you passively choose NYU because you have no choice, then NYU is not the right school for you. But, surely you are not. You know what you are doing and will take advantage of it. Trust yourself!
Believe it or not, state schools are also full of intelligent people you can meet and make connections from different fields with - not all of us are passionless mindless robots just here for a DMD. Some of us are actually even passionate about dentistry!

You can do all of those things at most schools and most cities, you may have to seek it out more. Additionally, you may find that after dental school you can still do those things, and people are more likely to return your calls since you have a DMD. In conclusion, you can achieve those non-specific things you want to do anywhere you are, it depends on you and not the city or school. However one of those choices will leave you hundreds of thousand in debt, leaving you much less options to pursue your passions for the next decade and one will not.
 
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I feel like 1/5 of the posts revolve around NYU vs another school. People should get the gist by now that it is supper expensive. The idea that you can get "connections, experience, and deep intellectual conversations/endeavors " that you can't get anywhere else is part of the marketing strategy of NYU- IMO. It is possible some of this is true to a certain extent. You will never know until you fork over 100K-140K per year (living expenses) and go to school there. Although, it is slightly ludicrous to think you can't get a similar experiences at other schools for 1/2 the price (or better).
 
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Believe it or not, state schools are also full of intelligent people you can meet and make connections from different fields with - not all of us are passionless mindless robots just here for a DMD. Some of us are actually even passionate about dentistry!

You can do all of those things at most schools and most cities, you may have to seek it out more. Additionally, you may find that after dental school you can still do those things, and people are more likely to return your calls since you have a DMD. In conclusion, you can achieve those non-specific things you want to do anywhere you are, it depends on you and not the city or school. However one of those choices will leave you hundreds of thousand in debt, leaving you much less options to pursue your passions for the next decade and one will not.
I do agree with your statement that you can achieve those things at most schools, and of course most people are intelligent if they made it into dental school. But me personally, I want to seek out people in other fields, most notably technology and finance, who can embark on a business venture with me.

If you see where SIUE is located, and actually been to the campus for a visit you'll notice that:
- Its located in a very rural area (I wouldn't living in a rural area later on in life, but usually you'll find more intelligent/entrepreneurial people in an urban area)
- Its dental campus is located far from the main campus (so you will only interact with other dental students and not others of different fields)
- They're main goal is to educate general dentists who will work in small towns. (Whereas my ambitions are a bit different)

SIUE is a great school for people who want to own their practice in IL, but as I'm more of a cut-throat businessman/MBA type of person (according to the people at my current corporate job and my own father), I feel like nyc will be a better environment for me, hence why NYU vs SIUE is a question in the first place.
If I got into UIC (or even any other cheaper school located in a somewhat urban environment), which is my other state school in Chicago, this wouldn't even be a discussion (even though I like NYC far better than Chicago).

TLDR:
The environment and mission of SIUE is WORLDS different in comparison to NYU, thus the cause for my internal debate.
 
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A lot of good points here that have been said, so the only thing I will add is this...

This recently came from the NYU College of Dentistry website

nyu tuition.PNG

Do with it as you will.

And as far as loan payment plans go, I would assume most people paying >200k for a dental school education will opt for the income-driven repayment plan (IDR).
 
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I do agree with your statement that you can achieve those things at most schools, and of course most people are intelligent if they made it into dental school. But me personally, I want to seek out people in other fields, most notably technology and finance, who can embark on a business venture with me.

If you see where SIUE is located, and actually been to the campus for a visit you'll notice that:
- Its located in a very rural area (I wouldn't living in a rural area later on in life, but usually you'll find more intelligent/entrepreneurial people in an urban area)
- Its dental campus is located far from the main campus (so you will only interact with other dental students and not others of different fields)
- They're main goal is to educate general dentists who will work in small towns. (Whereas my ambitions are a bit different)

SIUE is a great school for people who want to own their practice in IL, but as I'm more of a cut-throat businessman/MBA type of person (according to the people at my current corporate job and my own father), I feel like nyc will be a better environment for me, hence why NYU vs SIUE is a question in the first place.
If I got into UIC (or even any other cheaper school located in a somewhat urban environment), which is my other state school in Chicago, this wouldn't even be a discussion (even though I like NYC far better than Chicago).

TLDR:
The environment and mission of SIUE is WORLDS different in comparison to NYU, thus the cause for my internal debate.
My question to this is when will you be seeking out those individuals? You’ll be a fairly busy dental student in a separate building than students who’d be in the business/technological type of courses.. most will also be quite a bit younger then you and who knows how motivated. Even if you did find those students, how are you going to find ones that are wanting to embark on a business venture with dental students? You’re right, there will be more intelligent/entrepreneurial students at NYU but there will also be a lot of unintelligent people too..

you might have better odds speaking with other dental students who have similar goals and collaborate with them if possible.
 
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I do agree with your statement that you can achieve those things at most schools, and of course most people are intelligent if they made it into dental school. But me personally, I want to seek out people in other fields, most notably technology and finance, who can embark on a business venture with me.

If you see where SIUE is located, and actually been to the campus for a visit you'll notice that:
- Its located in a very rural area (I wouldn't living in a rural area later on in life, but usually you'll find more intelligent/entrepreneurial people in an urban area)
- Its dental campus is located far from the main campus (so you will only interact with other dental students and not others of different fields)
- They're main goal is to educate general dentists who will work in small towns. (Whereas my ambitions are a bit different)

SIUE is a great school for people who want to own their practice in IL, but as I'm more of a cut-throat businessman/MBA type of person (according to the people at my current corporate job and my own father), I feel like nyc will be a better environment for me, hence why NYU vs SIUE is a question in the first place.
If I got into UIC (or even any other cheaper school located in a somewhat urban environment), which is my other state school in Chicago, this wouldn't even be a discussion (even though I like NYC far better than Chicago).

TLDR:
The environment and mission of SIUE is WORLDS different in comparison to NYU, thus the cause for my internal debate.
None of these points even remotely justify an extra 250k in debt. In fact, graduating debt free from SIUE will give you much more leeway to embark on business ventures as you won't have 250k of debt chained to your ankle. Dental school is a quick 4 years. I can't believe i'm nearing the end of my second year now. Graduate debt free and then move to a bigger city when you graduate. Myself and most people on this forum would kill to be in the position to graduate debt free. Don't waste such an incredible opportunity.
 
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Several sentences in your post are actually quite revealing.

But me personally, I want to seek out people in other fields, most notably technology and finance, who can embark on a business venture with me.
While there is nothing wrong with this statement, are you sure dentistry is the profession for you? It really seems like you want to be a businessman more than a dentist.
- Its located in a very rural area (I wouldn't living in a rural area later on in life, but usually you'll find more intelligent/entrepreneurial people in an urban area)
To think there aren’t enough intelligent people in rural towns is pretty narrow minded. Furthermore, there is actually probably more untapped dentistry in these rural areas. Pretty insulting actually.
- They're main goal is to educate general dentists who will work in small towns. (Whereas my ambitions are a bit different)

Why did you apply here in the first place then?

I'm more of a cut-throat businessman/MBA type of person (according to the people at my current corporate job and my own father), I feel like nyc will be a better environment for me, hence why NYU vs SIUE is a question in the first place.
Again, it actually sounds as if business is the better professional for you- not dentistry. You also mention you didn’t get into UIC. I wonder if this came across in your interviews. Furthermore, I don’t know if “cut-throat” is a salient characteristic of oral health care professionals.

I wonder if the internal debate should be whether or not dentistry is a good fit for you.
 
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Lol if you have this idea of business ventures and crossing over with other fields then being in a rural area would benefit you. As Lankers said, rural areas can be great for dentistry, helps avoid any oversaturation you would find in major cities (like NYC). For someone that seems so enamored with the business side of dentistry, it’s rather strange that you would take on 250K in debt for some connections.
 
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That "daily site maintenance" took longer than expected. I will respond to people in this one big post.

While there is nothing wrong with this statement, are you sure dentistry is the profession for you? It really seems like you want to be a businessman more than a dentist.
I do want to be a businessman. But I do enjoy dentistry, as I learned when shadowing 100+ hours.
To think there aren’t enough intelligent people in rural towns is pretty narrow minded. Furthermore, there is actually probably more untapped dentistry in these rural areas. Pretty insulting actually.
If I offended you, I apologize. And I agree, there is more untapped dentistry in those rural areas.
I will redact my wording of "intelligent". "Less educated" seems to be more appropriate. I grew up in two different rural towns before living in NJ so I can speak from first hand experience there are "less educated" people due to the lack of quality education that more urban areas can provide. You don't see billionaire fund managers and tech geniuses coming from a farm town.
Why did you apply here in the first place then?
As people can change political views, they can change goals too.
I used to have the mindset that I will be a regular dentist working in IL, but I learned that I like business while I was working a corporate job this past year.
Also my family dentist is an SIUE grad (who wrote me my letter), and I carry a lot of respect for him.
Again, it actually sounds as if business is the better professional for you- not dentistry. You also mention you didn’t get into UIC. I wonder if this came across in your interviews. Furthermore, I don’t know if “cut-throat” is a salient characteristic of oral health care professionals.

I wonder if the internal debate should be whether or not dentistry is a good fit for you.
I do believe the business field is where I want to go. But I also believe I'll be good at dentistry (I'm good with my hands and I have a pretty high DAT). So why not combine the two? Also NYU offers a DDS/MBA joint program with Stern, which is one of the best MBA schools in the nation.
Running a dental practice or chain is a business. I know one would need to employ cut-throat business strategies to eliminate/push out smaller practices from of the area if your goal is to maximize your patient pool and revenue.

Lol if you have this idea of business ventures and crossing over with other fields then being in a rural area would benefit you. As Lankers said, rural areas can be great for dentistry, helps avoid any oversaturation you would find in major cities (like NYC). For someone that seems so enamored with the business side of dentistry, it’s rather strange that you would take on 250K in debt for some connections.
Being in a rural area will get you more patients/revenue sure. I always heard from dentists that "if you practice in a rural area, you will live like a king". But I doubt I will meet people with extensive knowledge of banking, finances, law, corporate management, etc in a rural area. And I think you are discounting the value that connections may make you. My father met many capable and driven friends by going to Seoul National University (which is basically the Harvard of Korea), which then his friends later started their own multi-hundreds of million dollar companies and then helped my dad start his own pharma company by connecting him to large investors/VCs as well as serve as his advisors. So witnessing that myself, I think NYU can provide me those type of opportunities, and 250k for that kind of potential is a small price to pay.

Graduate debt free and then move to a bigger city when you graduate. Myself and most people on this forum would kill to be in the position to graduate debt free. Don't waste such an incredible opportunity.
Graduating and moving later is always an option. But after graduating from undergrad, I realized it is so much harder to make friends/connections "organically". Maybe its COVID playing a factor, but I hear many say "I don't think I'll ever make as many connections as I did in college".

I think most are afraid that the dentists over there won’t take silly arguments/posts seriously at all, exhibit A lol^^
Where's exhibit B?

A lot of good points here that have been said, so the only thing I will add is this...

This recently came from the NYU College of Dentistry website

nyu tuition.PNG

Do with it as you will.

And as far as loan payment plans go, I would assume most people paying >200k for a dental school education will opt for the income-driven repayment plan (IDR).
Thank you for going to the trouble of finding that information.

The tuition portion is accurate. Everything else I think will vary heavily on the individual. I did my own research and 250k is the number I ended with.

My question to this is when will you be seeking out those individuals? You’ll be a fairly busy dental student in a separate building than students who’d be in the business/technological type of courses.. most will also be quite a bit younger then you and who knows how motivated. Even if you did find those students, how are you going to find ones that are wanting to embark on a business venture with dental students? You’re right, there will be more intelligent/entrepreneurial students at NYU but there will also be a lot of unintelligent people too..

you might have better odds speaking with other dental students who have similar goals and collaborate with them if possible.
You do bring up a fairly good point in regards to time, but its not as if dental school will consume all waking hours of my life (or I sure hope not). But I do have friends who are current Stern students or recently graduated living in Manhattan to hopefully make that process easier.
Unfortunately you are correct about there being a good amount of unintelligent people as well. I suppose my argument is that there is a bigger pool of people, thus the chances of me running into someone who is well-educated and intelligent is higher than in places outside of nyc.
Other dental students are highly intelligent (usually) and probably more likely to collaborate, especially for opening joint practices. But the issue I am concerned about is that dental students' knowledge is typically restrained to healthcare and operating a dental practice.

Ivy.ch cplz🦷 PerioDont

I sense you all are starting to take this discussion personally through your wording as you all started to discuss less and instead moved to degrading and discrediting my statements/opinions. I apologize if you took my statements personally. I'm simply making counter arguments as I tend to play devil's advocate (as I am doing now with the general sentiment of "go to the cheaper school") for pretty much anything and hoping for you all to prove me otherwise.

To clarify, I came here to see if anyone had pros and cons about either school ASIDE FROM COST (e.g. their program, student life, etc).
I am aware (and been continuously made more aware) of the loans and debt.
 
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That "daily site maintenance" took longer than expected. I will respond to people in this one big post.


I do want to be a businessman. But I do enjoy dentistry, as I learned when shadowing 100+ hours.

If I offended you, I apologize. And I agree, there is more untapped dentistry in those rural areas.
I will redact my wording of "intelligent". "Less educated" seems to be more appropriate. I grew up in two different rural towns before living in NJ so I can speak from first hand experience there are "less educated" people due to the lack of quality education that more urban areas can provide. You don't see billionaire fund managers and tech geniuses coming from a farm town.

As people can change political views, they can change goals too.
I used to have the mindset that I will be a regular dentist working in IL, but I learned that I like business while I was working a corporate job this past year.
Also my family dentist is an SIUE grad (who wrote me my letter), and I carry a lot of respect for him.

I do believe the business field is where I want to go. But I also believe I'll be good at dentistry (I'm good with my hands and I have a pretty high DAT). So why not combine the two? Also NYU offers a DDS/MBA joint program with Stern, which is one of the best MBA schools in the nation.
Running a dental practice or chain is a business. I know one would need to employ cut-throat business strategies to eliminate/push out smaller practices from of the area if your goal is to maximize your patient pool and revenue.


Being in a rural area will get you more patients/revenue sure. I always heard from dentists that "if you practice in a rural area, you will live like a king". But I doubt I will meet people with extensive knowledge of banking, finances, law, corporate management, etc in a rural area. And I think you are discounting the value that connections may make you. My father met many capable and driven friends by going to Seoul National University (which is basically the Harvard of Korea), which then his friends later started their own multi-hundreds of million dollar companies and then helped my dad start his own pharma company by connecting him to large investors/VCs as well as serve as his advisors. So witnessing that myself, I think NYU can provide me those type of opportunities, and 250k for that kind of potential is a small price to pay.


Graduating and moving later is always an option. But after graduating from undergrad, I realized it is so much harder to make friends/connections "organically". Maybe its COVID playing a factor, but I hear many say "I don't think I'll ever make as many connections as I did in college".


Where's exhibit B?


Thank you for going to the trouble of finding that information.

The tuition portion is accurate. Everything else I think will vary heavily on the individual. I did my own research and 250k is the number I ended with.


You do bring up a fairly good point in regards to time, but its not as if dental school will consume all waking hours of my life (or I sure hope not). But I do have friends who are current Stern students or recently graduated living in Manhattan to hopefully make that process easier.
Unfortunately you are correct about there being a good amount of unintelligent people as well. I suppose my argument is that there is a bigger pool of people, thus the chances of me running into someone who is well-educated and intelligent is higher than in places outside of nyc.
Other dental students are highly intelligent (usually) and probably more likely to collaborate, especially for opening joint practices. But the issue I am concerned about is that dental students' knowledge is typically restrained to healthcare and operating a dental practice.

Ivy.ch cplz🦷 PerioDont

I sense you all are starting to take this discussion personally through your wording as you all started to discuss less and instead moved to degrading and discrediting my statements/opinions. I apologize if you took my statements personally. I'm simply making counter arguments as I tend to play devil's advocate (as I am doing now with the general sentiment of "go to the cheaper school") for pretty much anything and hoping for you all to prove me otherwise.

To clarify, I came here to see if anyone had pros and cons about either school ASIDE FROM COST (e.g. their program, student life, etc).
I am aware (and been continuously made more aware) of the loans and debt.
I can assure you that none of us are taking anything personally, this a discussion forum lol. If you can't handle the warranted criticism you are receiving and instead think we are offended, maybe it's you that is taking it personally. Also, asking for exhibit B is silly and detracting from the actual point that if you had posted this on DentalTown, they would not have given you the same benefit of the doubt you get here. If you think @Ivy.ch, @PerioDont, and I are taking it personally bc of what we said, go ahead and take a gander at what the DentalTown peeps said lol. And if you don't mind my asking, did your dad also go 250K in the hole to go to SNU for these connections?
 
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That "daily site maintenance" took longer than expected. I will respond to people in this one big post.


I do want to be a businessman. But I do enjoy dentistry, as I learned when shadowing 100+ hours.

If I offended you, I apologize. And I agree, there is more untapped dentistry in those rural areas.
I will redact my wording of "intelligent". "Less educated" seems to be more appropriate. I grew up in two different rural towns before living in NJ so I can speak from first hand experience there are "less educated" people due to the lack of quality education that more urban areas can provide. You don't see billionaire fund managers and tech geniuses coming from a farm town.

As people can change political views, they can change goals too.
I used to have the mindset that I will be a regular dentist working in IL, but I learned that I like business while I was working a corporate job this past year.
Also my family dentist is an SIUE grad (who wrote me my letter), and I carry a lot of respect for him.

I do believe the business field is where I want to go. But I also believe I'll be good at dentistry (I'm good with my hands and I have a pretty high DAT). So why not combine the two? Also NYU offers a DDS/MBA joint program with Stern, which is one of the best MBA schools in the nation.
Running a dental practice or chain is a business. I know one would need to employ cut-throat business strategies to eliminate/push out smaller practices from of the area if your goal is to maximize your patient pool and revenue.


Being in a rural area will get you more patients/revenue sure. I always heard from dentists that "if you practice in a rural area, you will live like a king". But I doubt I will meet people with extensive knowledge of banking, finances, law, corporate management, etc in a rural area. And I think you are discounting the value that connections may make you. My father met many capable and driven friends by going to Seoul National University (which is basically the Harvard of Korea), which then his friends later started their own multi-hundreds of million dollar companies and then helped my dad start his own pharma company by connecting him to large investors/VCs as well as serve as his advisors. So witnessing that myself, I think NYU can provide me those type of opportunities, and 250k for that kind of potential is a small price to pay.


Graduating and moving later is always an option. But after graduating from undergrad, I realized it is so much harder to make friends/connections "organically". Maybe its COVID playing a factor, but I hear many say "I don't think I'll ever make as many connections as I did in college".


Where's exhibit B?


Thank you for going to the trouble of finding that information.

The tuition portion is accurate. Everything else I think will vary heavily on the individual. I did my own research and 250k is the number I ended with.


You do bring up a fairly good point in regards to time, but its not as if dental school will consume all waking hours of my life (or I sure hope not). But I do have friends who are current Stern students or recently graduated living in Manhattan to hopefully make that process easier.
Unfortunately you are correct about there being a good amount of unintelligent people as well. I suppose my argument is that there is a bigger pool of people, thus the chances of me running into someone who is well-educated and intelligent is higher than in places outside of nyc.
Other dental students are highly intelligent (usually) and probably more likely to collaborate, especially for opening joint practices. But the issue I am concerned about is that dental students' knowledge is typically restrained to healthcare and operating a dental practice.

Ivy.ch "> cplz PerioDont

I sense you all are starting to take this discussion personally through your wording as you all started to discuss less and instead moved to degrading and discrediting my statements/opinions. I apologize if you took my statements personally. I'm simply making counter arguments as I tend to play devil's advocate (as I am doing now with the general sentiment of "go to the cheaper school") for pretty much anything and hoping for you all to prove me otherwise.

To clarify, I came here to see if anyone had pros and cons about either school ASIDE FROM COST (e.g. their program, student life, etc).
I am aware (and been continuously made more aware) of the loans and debt.

Alright here's what I've understood from this post. You want to be a business man and become wealthy through your connections. Dentistry probably isn't the best way to do so. If money is your number one goal, you will most likely not be satisfied with Dentistry. Why not just start a business like your dad did? It will save you four years and 250k of debt. Just because you scored high on the DAT doesn't mean you'll be great at dentistry. In dental school you will be so busy that you want have time to be making tons of connections with people outside your dental school. You'll be too busy studying or working in the lab for your patient cases. And if you can make connections at NYU, you can make them at SIU. Also it looks like SIU is pretty close to St Louis, so it's not in the middle of nowhere.

It sounds like you're relying too much on other people for your future. Don't do that. You'll be very disappointed when it doesn't work out. Make something happen yourself.

This sounds like a case of daddy buys me everything so I'm not worried about the future implications of my actions.

Go to SIU. So many people would kill to go there over NYU. I think you'll find NYU disappointing.
 
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I can assure you that none of us are taking anything personally, this a discussion forum lol. If you can't handle the warranted criticism you are receiving and instead think we are offended, maybe it's you that is taking it personally. Also, asking for exhibit B is silly and detracting from the actual point that if you had posted this on DentalTown, they would not have given you the same benefit of the doubt you get here. If you think ivy, periodont, and I are taking it personally bc of what we said, go ahead and take a gander at what the DentalTown peeps said lol. And if you don't my asking, did your dad also go 250K in the hole to go to SNU for these connections?
I apologize. I figured future dentists would have a bit more class, even under the safety of anonymity. I can see why multiple dentists I spoke with told me SDN is "full of neurotic people".
And no, he worked multiple part time jobs in high school and in college and extended his military service to pay for his education. And thanks to his efforts, I am able to live a more comfortable life.
 
It is like i said before, you need to be debating whether dental school is right for you. You can be a CEO of a DSO and not be a dentist. It really seems like serving your community as a dentist is not your top priority. There might be a reason you were only accepted at two schools. I think you and dentistry will be better served if you went the MBA route.
 
I apologize. I figured future dentists would have a bit more class, even under the safety of anonymity. I can see why multiple dentists I spoke with told me SDN is "full of neurotic people".
And no, he worked multiple part time jobs in high school and in college and extended his military service to pay for his education. And thanks to his efforts, I am able to live a more comfortable life.
It's fine, you have to remember that people on here and over in DT will be brutally honest due to that anonymity and because, well, sometimes people need that honesty tbh. As for what your father did, that's great for him, my friend's dad also did the same thing except he went to UMich, now he is one of the most successful people I know, so much respect to him and to your father. With that being said, does your dad support you taking on that debt at the chance of some connections? B/c there are many successful dentists/businemen hybrids that come from smaller schools, one great example is Dr. Workman who also graduated from SIU (not saying everyone can do what he's done but hey, with your determination and resources you may have at your disposal you certainly could).
 
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Alright here's what I've understood from this post. You want to be a business man and become wealthy through your connections. Dentistry probably isn't the best way to do so. If money is your number one goal, you will most likely not be satisfied with Dentistry. Why not just start a business like your dad did? It will save you four years and 250k of debt. Just because you scored high on the DAT doesn't mean you'll be great at dentistry. In dental school you will be so busy that you want have time to be making tons of connections with people outside your dental school. You'll be too busy studying or working in the lab for your patient cases. And if you can make connections at NYU, you can make them at SIU. Also it looks like SIU is pretty close to St Louis, so it's not in the middle of nowhere.

It sounds like you're relying too much on other people for your future. Don't do that. You'll be very disappointed when it doesn't work out. Make something happen yourself.

This sounds like a case of daddy buys me everything so I'm not worried about the future implications of my actions.

Go to SIU. So many people would kill to go there over NYU. I think you'll find NYU disappointing.
Firstly, I have two questions for if you dont mind:
1. Have you toured NYU or know anyone that goes to NYU?
2. Are you a current dental student?

Of course I have no idea if I will be a good dentist right now, but the fact I was granted two admissions shows that I have the qualifications to enter dental school.
It seems like most people's goal here is money, judging by how concerned they are with tuition costs. So I don't think I'm much different in that regard.
I am aware of relying too much on other people, but having connections certainly helps a good amount. Of course I'm not expecting peers to carry me through dental school. I'm not planning on relying on people for success, but I would like to have others to help me towards a bigger goal.

It is like i said before, you need to be debating whether dental school is right for you. You can be a CEO of a DSO and not be a dentist. It really seems like serving your community as a dentist is not your top priority. There might be a reason you were only accepted at two schools. I think you and dentistry will be better served if you went the MBA route.
I think what you are missing is that I LIKE DENTISTRY. When I went to go shadow my first dentist, I immediately fell in love with the profession. I like working with my hands as I painted on canvas, built/painted models, molded sculptures, etc. I liked the flexible hours, and I liked the patient interaction.
But at the same time, I like the idea of risk-taking, employing aggressive business strategies, management etc.
Ideally, I want to start out practicing dentistry, then perhaps work my way up the ladder and/or pursue ventures as my hands wither.

And I believe the reason I was only accepted to two schools is my GPA and that I scored a C in both Biochem and Orgo 2. There were circumstances surrounding both, but when it comes to applications, there is no excuse.
 
It's fine, you have to remember that people on here and over in DT will be brutally honest due to that anonymity and because, well, sometimes people need that honesty tbh. As for what your father did, that's great for him, my friend's dad also did the same thing except he went to UMich, now he is one of the most successful people I know, so much respect to him and to your father. With that being said, does your dad support you taking on that debt at the chance of some connections? B/c there are many successful dentists/businessmen hybrids that come from smaller schools, one great example is Dr. Workman who also graduated from SIU (not saying everyone can do what he's done but hey, with your determination and resources you may have at your disposal you certainly could).
Well of course there will be super successful dentists that come from smaller schools, as people who go to dental school are very motivated and capable.
And wow I didn't know Dr. Workman of Heartland was an SIUE grad until now. Its actually funny because the interviewers at SIUE told me they actively try to dissuade their students from going to corporate.

As for my dad, he actually wants me to go to NYU, largely because he believes I can have similar experience to that of his in Seoul. But he left the final decision to me, hence why I'm here. I'm leaning towards NYU because of nyc, but I still want to get as much info on both as I can before making a decision and regretting it later.

He is fine with me taking out some loans, and actually wants me to take out loans because I'm "a grown man now and need to learn to take care of (my own) finances and build (my own) future instead of relying on (my dad) all the time", to which I reluctantly agree because I admit I have no clue on how to do any real grown-up stuff like taxes, loan payments, insurance, etc.
 
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I think at this point there is no reason for continuation of this thread. Go to NYU and find out for yourself if you will get what you think you will.
 
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School 1: NYU
Pros:
  • Prestige of having a DDS degree from one of the Top 5 dental schools in the nation
  • Experience living in an urban area and in NY
  • Will be able to negotiate a higher salary at corporate dental groups leveraging NYU dental degree. Especially in locations they are desperate in.
  • If I'm going to suffer in dental school, at least I will be suffering in one of the greatest cities in the world
  • Many opportunities to make new friends and develop connections
Cons:
  • Will graduate with roughly $250k of debt
  • I wont get to bring my car
As for my dad, he actually wants me to go to NYU, largely because he believes I can have similar experience to that of his in Seoul. But he left the final decision to me, hence why I'm here. I'm leaning towards NYU because of nyc, but I still want to get as much info on both as I can before making a decision and regretting it later.

He is fine with me taking out some loans, and actually wants me to take out loans because I'm "a grown man now and need to learn to take care of (my own) finances and build (my own) future instead of relying on (my dad) all the time", to which I reluctantly agree because I admit I have no clue on how to do any real grown-up stuff like taxes, loan payments, insurance, etc.

If anyone has pros and cons, or any advice (other than "go to the cheaper school") please let me know.
Hey, current D1 at NYU right now. It seems like your mind is made pretty much and you are seeking validation (which isn't a negative thing). Let me point a few things out so you can make an easier decision. I'm going to point out only a few things you've mentioned. Before I start, I want you to know I literally don't care what your decision is. It seems like some people hate on certain schools and people want to be 'right' and people defend that trying to be 'right'. ANYWAYS.

1. he believes I can have similar experience to that of his in Seoul. It seems that you are Korean and yes, your dad will want you to go to NYU because in Korea 'NYU' is a brand name school. It's 'prestigious' amongst Koreans (i'm korean myself). If that is one aspect you hold dear to your heart. Go to NYU.

2. "a grown man now and need to learn to take care of (my own) finances and build (my own) future instead of relying on (my dad) all the time" This one kind of shows that your dad is pushing you towards NYU. If you're a grown man and need to learn to take care of your own finances, you should start to realize that no debt is a better option lol. Without debt, you won't rely on anyone anyway. You'll figure it out with budgeting while in school with cost of living (you won't be paying back loans until after you're out of school anyways as well).

3. Will be able to negotiate a higher salary at corporate dental groups leveraging NYU dental degree. Especially in locations they are desperate in. This is not really true. in locations they are desperate, they'll pay regardless of education. Just because you graduate NYU doesn't automatically mean you'll be a great dentist.

Now with this being said, you probably have questions for me.

Then why did I choose NYU? bc this is the only school that i was accepted
If accepted to another school, would I have gone there? If I got into a cheaper school, yes.
So, its all about money? Yes, in the end you're all dentists whatever school you come from. If you suck, the patient won't come back. I know this because I worked at a dental office for 4 years with half the dentists being NYU grad dentists. If the patient doesn't like you, they won't come back. Plain and simple. Does the office pay more for NYU grads? nope.
What about networking? that's totally up to the individual. you throw a guy in a party, its up to him to meet new people no matter how big or small the party is. I also heard networking outside of school is hard in NYU because you're already busy with school, which takes up the majority of your time.
How is attending NYU? there are pros and cons to everything. but for sure, for a school that claims to be prestigious....they can do more...it feels like it's all about money for them as well. Feels like 'school first, students second'.
Do I regret coming to NYU? Nope. I'll be painfully paying back my 500k debt, but holding off another cycle was not something I wanted to do.

Looking at your situation with 250k debt out of NYU, it's not TOO bad. You want more korean friends? Come to NYU, we got a ton of them. But, if I personally was in your situation? I'd go to SIUE.

I just typed out what came to mind, if you have any more specific questions you can shoot me a dm
 
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Hey, current D1 at NYU right now. It seems like your mind is made pretty much and you are seeking validation (which isn't a negative thing). Let me point a few things out so you can make an easier decision. I'm going to point out only a few things you've mentioned. Before I start, I want you to know I literally don't care what your decision is. It seems like some people hate on certain schools and people want to be 'right' and people defend that trying to be 'right'. ANYWAYS.

1. he believes I can have similar experience to that of his in Seoul. It seems that you are Korean and yes, your dad will want you to go to NYU because in Korea 'NYU' is a brand name school. It's 'prestigious' amongst Koreans (i'm korean myself). If that is one aspect you hold dear to your heart. Go to NYU.

2. "a grown man now and need to learn to take care of (my own) finances and build (my own) future instead of relying on (my dad) all the time" This one kind of shows that your dad is pushing you towards NYU. If you're a grown man and need to learn to take care of your own finances, you should start to realize that no debt is a better option lol. Without debt, you won't rely on anyone anyway. You'll figure it out with budgeting while in school with cost of living (you won't be paying back loans until after you're out of school anyways as well).

3. Will be able to negotiate a higher salary at corporate dental groups leveraging NYU dental degree. Especially in locations they are desperate in. This is not really true. in locations they are desperate, they'll pay regardless of education. Just because you graduate NYU doesn't automatically mean you'll be a great dentist.

Now with this being said, you probably have questions for me.

Then why did I choose NYU? bc this is the only school that i was accepted
If accepted to another school, would I have gone there? If I got into a cheaper school, yes.
So, its all about money? Yes, in the end you're all dentists whatever school you come from. If you suck, the patient won't come back. I know this because I worked at a dental office for 4 years with half the dentists being NYU grad dentists. If the patient doesn't like you, they won't come back. Plain and simple. Does the office pay more for NYU grads? nope.
What about networking? that's totally up to the individual. you throw a guy in a party, its up to him to meet new people no matter how big or small the party is. I also heard networking outside of school is hard in NYU because you're already busy with school, which takes up the majority of your time.
How is attending NYU? there are pros and cons to everything. but for sure, for a school that claims to be prestigious....they can do more...it feels like it's all about money for them as well. Feels like 'school first, students second'.
Do I regret coming to NYU? Nope. I'll be painfully paying back my 500k debt, but holding off another cycle was not something I wanted to do.

Looking at your situation with 250k debt out of NYU, it's not TOO bad. You want more korean friends? Come to NYU, we got a ton of them. But, if I personally was in your situation? I'd go to SIUE.

I just typed out what came to mind, if you have any more specific questions you can shoot me a dm
Well this was the kind of post I was looking for and it was the most helpful in this entire thread. Thank you very much.
I will DM you my q's once I get back to the office from my lunch break.
 
I can assure you that none of us are taking anything personally, this a discussion forum lol. If you can't handle the warranted criticism you are receiving and instead think we are offended, maybe it's you that is taking it personally. Also, asking for exhibit B is silly and detracting from the actual point that if you had posted this on DentalTown, they would not have given you the same benefit of the doubt you get here. If you think @Ivy.ch, @PerioDont, and I are taking it personally bc of what we said, go ahead and take a gander at what the DentalTown peeps said lol. And if you don't mind my asking, did your dad also go 250K in the hole to go to SNU for these connections?
I personally know literally hundreds of dentists. I have seen and know the real world consequences of debt. It is a serious problem and can negatively affect your life for decades if not years.

That is mainly what I would like all other future dentists to avoid. Wish you the best in your decision.
 
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Compared to DentalTown, I thought we were being nice :lol:

PerioDont and I, we're graduating and on to residency in 2 months - all we're trying to do is make sure pre-dents have a realistic understanding of dental school and the consequences of debt. Pre-dents have no idea what dental school will be like.

Wish you all the best luck at school! It's be tough, but you'll get through.
 
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Very Committed. I live in NYC for 10 years and I love here the metropolitan environment. My girlfriend is at Columbia Dental and I will be D1 this year at NYU. The tuition is high indeed, but you get the point. Dental school is not just a place to get a license and done (at least for us). There are a lot more things that we can explore, meet very intelligent people, and making connections from different fields. Follow your passion with motivations, actively look for and then explore, that is what I am going to do, too. Life is about the money, but not all about the money. If you passively choose NYU because you have no choice, then NYU is not the right school for you. But, surely you are not. You know what you are doing and will take advantage of it. Trust yourself!
Dude, this is so wrong. Listen, you can do all that idealistic crap, sure BUT ON YOUR JOURENY to getting your dds. You maintain a slow, non-invasive everyrthing. You think you smell the wrong way for one guy but not another, go with a more neutral perfume next time.

trust me, even if you believe what you say now, you won't be 2 months in, I bet. Nature of the beast. The admin and most your class shouldn't even know who you are. That is how quiet you should be.
 
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Compared to DentalTown, I thought we were being nice :lol:

PerioDont and I, we're graduating and on to residency in 2 months - all we're trying to do is make sure pre-dents have a realistic understanding of dental school and the consequences of debt. Pre-dents have no idea what dental school will be like.

Wish you all the best luck at school! It's be tough, but you'll get through.
this is something I feel like all of us older folk feel. Somehow you are lucky enough to get thru that limbo for 4 years so you come out more spiritual, perhaps, and feel obligated to pay off your karmic debt,. Nothing gets me more irritated and, honestly, solemn when I see someone potentially ruin their life. Again, maybe the kid is a stud and grows a third arm right before matriculating to clinic and is a beast, but we all know the affects of usury and money lending.

You are a good person, @Ivy.ch
 
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So I already paid the deposit for NYU and about to sign for an apt but SIUE just gave me an acceptance call.
Here are the pros and cons from my perspective:

School 1: NYU
Pros:
  • Prestige of having a DDS degree from one of the Top 5 dental schools in the nation
  • Experience living in an urban area and in NY
  • Will be able to negotiate a higher salary at corporate dental groups leveraging NYU dental degree. Especially in locations they are desperate in.
  • If I'm going to suffer in dental school, at least I will be suffering in one of the greatest cities in the world
  • Many opportunities to make new friends and develop connections
Cons:
  • Will graduate with roughly $250k of debt
  • I wont get to bring my car

School 2: Southern Illinois University In-State
Pros:
  • Low cost of tuition/living
    • Basically will graduate with no student debt as parents will pay for everything
  • 3 hours away from my parents home
  • I will get to bring my car that I love very much (profile pic)
  • Smaller class size (doesn't matter as much for me, but I know people make a big deal out of it)
Cons:
  • Location of school and living area
  • Will have to burn all the NYU merchandise and scrubs I purchased
If anyone has pros and cons, or any advice (other than "go to the cheaper school") please let me know.
Wait is this post a joke?...there’s no way you could think NYU is in the top five best dental schools. It is one of the top five worst dental schools IMO. Go to your state school you won’t regret it.
 
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