Nurses making more than residents?

[DrDarce]

How do you all feel about nurses making more annually than most residents? I realize that residents are still "in training" and will get a massive pay increase right after residency, but it seems pretty messed up given that residents work > double their hours.

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[ortnakas]

That the funding source for nursing salaries and resident salaries is different so this is unlikely to change and not worth worrying about.

 

[Psai]

im upset about administrators making more than doctors when their goals are generally opposed to good patient care

 

[TooMuchResearch]

How do you all feel about nurses making more annually than most residents? I realize that residents are still "in training" and will get a massive pay increase right after residency, but it seems pretty messed up given that residents work > double their hours.

It's fine.

 

[Brownman55]

You can marry a nurse while in residency, mooch of her for a bit, and then when you're done with residency she can mooch of you, it's a win-win for everyone!

 

[ACSurgeon]

How do you all feel about nurses making more annually than most residents? I realize that residents are still "in training" and will get a massive pay increase right after residency, but it seems pretty messed up given that residents work > double their hours.

Most people make more per hour than residents. I don't wish that I was any of those people.

 

[sawed-off]

Like you said. Residents are in training. Most nurses aren't and are well-equipped to do their jobs.

 

[mik30102]

Pharmacists make more then medical residents to? Kind of irrelevant like everyone else has said. At least medical residencies pay around 10k more than pharmacy residencies!

 

[Gurame1121]

I'm sure nurse trainees make less than doctor trainees as well

 

[Daedalus]

(to quote The West Wing)

--"I make more money than you"
--"You and any kid with a decent paper route..."

Who cares?

 

[Psai]

Pharmacists make more then medical residents to? Kind of irrelevant like everyone else has said. At least medical residencies pay around 10k more than pharmacy residencies!

Pharmacy residencies aren't anywhere close to a medical residency, not sure why you would compare them

 

[typoncho]

Not surprised... Here in Atlanta Emory Residents make a salary in the low $50,000. Look into the Army STRAP or FAP you can recieve $2,200.73 stipend per month and possibly Loan Repayment. That will offset the income quite a bit.

I have decided that you are a recruiter.

 

[GeorgiaHealthRecruiter]

You have decided correctly.

 

[typoncho]

You have decided correctly.

I would say every month or so I entertain the thought of going back in just for that glorious stipend and to have it all paid for. Such a good deal.

 

[seminoma]

How do you all feel about nurses making more annually than most residents? I realize that residents are still "in training" and will get a massive pay increase right after residency, but it seems pretty messed up given that residents work > double their hours.

Chemistry lab workers with associates degrees make almost as much per hour as residents. I was one of them, I know this for a fact.

Not surprising that nurses make the same or more.

 

[Mad Jack]

Physicians used to make nothing in training, just like nurses in training make nothing today. There's good reason for that- you're not a fully qualified physician in your field, and you're still learning and betting supervised and educated. Those nurses you work alongside are fully trained, can do their work with minimal oversight, and do not require an educational infrastructure to maintain.

I'm just thrilled it isn't like the old days where all physician interns were given was free lodging, a spend for clothing, and cafeteria food. I'm taking a huge pay cut for those training years, but something is better than nothing (our worse yet, paying to be trained, as happens in some dental GME).

 

[username456789]

Physicians used to make nothing in training, just like nurses in training make nothing today. There's good reason for that- you're not a fully qualified physician in your field, and you're still learning and betting supervised and educated. Those nurses you work alongside are fully trained, can do their work with minimal oversight, and do not require an educational infrastructure to maintain.

I'm just thrilled it isn't like the old days where all physician interns were given was free lodging, a spend for clothing, and cafeteria food. I'm taking a huge pay cut for those training years, but something is better than nothing (our worse yet, paying to be trained, as happens in some dental GME).

They also paid , like, $5 and a couple chickens for yearly tuition.

 

[ASD2019]

Physicians used to make nothing in training, just like nurses in training make nothing today. There's good reason for that- you're not a fully qualified physician in your field, and you're still learning and betting supervised and educated. Those nurses you work alongside are fully trained, can do their work with minimal oversight, and do not require an educational infrastructure to maintain.

I'm just thrilled it isn't like the old days where all physician interns were given was free lodging, a spend for clothing, and cafeteria food. I'm taking a huge pay cut for those training years, but something is better than nothing (our worse yet, paying to be trained, as happens in some dental GME).

Nurses in training? You possibly aren't suggesting all undergrad students be paid by their respective professions while they sit in their intro to art history class?

 

[PikminOC]

How do you all feel about nurses making more annually than most residents? I realize that residents are still "in training" and will get a massive pay increase right after residency, but it seems pretty messed up given that residents work > double their hours.

There are nurses who make more than attendings...

 

[postbacpremed87]

There are nurses who make more than attendings...

That 4 letter word is the better way to go in some instances.

 

[Mad Jack]

Nurses in training? You possibly aren't suggesting all undergrad students be paid by their respective professions while they sit in their intro to art history class?

I'm saying they shouldn't get paid and it's a blessing that we do.

Though in most European countries, nursing students are paid for their clinical hours, similar to interns, since they are effectively apprentices, and all apprenticeships in Western Europe are paid. Non-vocational students are not paid a stipend, as they are students taking courses that do not have a defined, terminal career for which they are preparing, and thus are students, not apprentices.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Plumbers make more than residents. What's your point?

 

[Kahreek]

...

 

[22031 Alum]

It was common knowledge that nurses made more than the residents at my program. Especially the night nurses who took on a lot of weekends/overnights. But it was also common knowledge that if they stayed in their current position, they were going to be at that pay level pretty much for the duration. After 48 months, I got an easier life (senior resident vs. attending isn't even in the same universe), more respect, and quadrupled my residency salary. So no, it doesn't bother me.

 

[Frazier]

twist: some nurses make more money than some attendings

Twist twist: Not all attendings make more money than all nurses.

 

[awared2]

Who cares?

 

[DOFOSHO]

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[jl lin]

Like you said. Residents are in training. Most nurses aren't and are well-equipped to do their jobs.

Like ornatkas said, it's the funding sources.

Residency is really a stipend. If you divide out the hours, you will want to shoot yourself in the toe. Suffice it to say, as a very experienced critical care RN, I will lose a lot of money while in med school and residency. Way it goes.

 

[jl lin]

If the minimum wage increases to $15/hour the high school drop-out at Burger King with the attitude will be making more per hour than the person with >8 years post-highschool education whose job it is to save peoples lives. lol. Go, Hillary! Make this country fair!

But residency has always been like this; except before the capping of the work hours in residency to 80/wk, plus different COL numbers back then, it was even less.

For the privilege of learning how to become a competent and hopefully effective physician, you will be given a stipend of about $12/hour. You do realize that there are those in residency that would work even more hours for the same pay in order to get more experience and build more expertise, right?

 

[jl lin]

It was common knowledge that nurses made more than the residents at my program. Especially the night nurses who took on a lot of weekends/overnights. But it was also common knowledge that if they stayed in their current position, they were going to be at that pay level pretty much for the duration. After 48 months, I got an easier life (senior resident vs. attending isn't even in the same universe), more respect, and quadrupled my residency salary. So no, it doesn't bother me.

Yes there can be a $20,000 or so increase over time with experience--assuming the same hours, not necessarily a lot of off-shift--it depends. Leadership roles will earn you more income, but of course, more overall accountability. Still, it's nothing compared with a physician's income, unless you are talking CNOs at certain hospitals/facilities.

 

[22031 Alum]

If the minimum wage increases to $15/hour the high school drop-out at Burger King with the attitude will be making more per hour than the person with >8 years post-highschool education whose job it is to save peoples lives. lol. Go, Hillary! Make this country fair!

I can tell you're still a medical student because you think it's the residents' job to save people's lives. It's the residents' job to learn how to eventually do that, and maybe stumble into saving a few lives in the process. It's my job not to let them kill anybody as they're learning.

Also, comparing the temporary low "wages" of a resident physician to the ceiling of a fast-food worker's job, is asinine. Plenty of people on salary have relatively low hourly "wages" if you calculate it out.

 

[DOFOSHO]

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[DOFOSHO]

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[DOFOSHO]

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[jl lin]

I can tell you're still a medical student because you think it's the residents' job to save people's lives. It's the residents' job to learn how to eventually do that, and maybe stumble into saving a few lives in the process. It's my job not to let them kill anybody as they're learning.

Also, comparing the temporary low "wages" of a resident physician to the ceiling of a fast-food worker's job, is asinine. Plenty of people on salary have relatively low hourly "wages" if you calculate it out.

Yup, based on a particular outpatient leadership nursing role, I was putting in > 70 hours/week and making half of what I normally do by working at my typical, clinical hourly rate.

In business, sure you may get weekends and holidays off; but you can easily be working over 60 hours per week, which makes that six figure salary less appealing when you divide out the hours--not including taking your LT home and dealing w/ "important" emails during the evening and weekends. Mostly no one is going to pay most people anything over $80,000-%100,000 w/o the demands of more hours, by far, than 40. LOL Welcome to America and business.

 

[jl lin]

give me a break. you know what i mean. I could also say there is a certain percentage of tacobell workers who are just now learning and training to make burrito supremes, they aren't actually making them for customers yet...

Yes, but you get what we are saying, right? It is really a stipend while you are learning. If you look at it any other way, well, you could end up feeling particularly butt-chapped.

 

[DOFOSHO]

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[primadonna22274]

I don't care one bit. I'm a PA who gave up a nice salary to go back to med school, now a PGY1 for 1.5 more weeks until PGY2. For the last year I have worked twice as many hours for less than half the pay of my PA salary lol...but that was better than nearly no salary as a med student who picked up random shifts when I could. I know the payoff is coming down the line, and I'm happier now than I was for the past decade. Twisted I know.

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[DOFOSHO]

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[group_theory]

. After 48 months, I got an easier life (senior resident vs. attending isn't even in the same universe), more respect, and quadrupled my residency salary. So no, it doesn't bother me.

Only quadrupled your residency salary? Man, academic medicine really do pay less than PP

In a lot of places, residents don't get the same retirement benefits that hospital employees do (like matching 401k, or matching 403b)

But it's nice to have a job where there is good health and dental benefits, as well as life insurance/disability insurance (although you should probably get your own separate policies on those) ... a lot of people would be envious of the ancillary benefits that residents/fellows get.

The student loan thing sucks though, no way to sugar coat it.

 

[22031 Alum]

Only quadrupled your residency salary? Man, academic medicine really do pay less than PP

Tell me about it. I just tell myself that private practice will always be there for me if I ever get tired of shaping the next generation.

 

[masaraksh]

yeah....i'm aware of that. but that also strengthens the point i was making which is: there are people at burger king who get a second job at taco bell AND, unlike a resident, double their pay.

Wouldn't it be cool if the government reallocated money from the able bodied/minded people who don't work and add it to residency salaries?

I'd rather we just cut taxes, government spending, a lot of the welfare programs and let natural selection take care of it.

 

[NicMouse64]

I'd rather we just cut taxes, government spending, a lot of the welfare programs and let natural selection take care of it.

yes, let the poor and hungry die! Just like Jesus said!

 

[DrDarce]

yes, let the poor and hungry die! Just like Jesus said!

I think he means forcing the people who rely on these programs to actually work. It's not too much to ask. Notice he said "most" of the welfare programs. There are definitely people out there who need these programs, but there are also a ton of people who are taking advantage of the system.

 

[jl lin]

yes, let the poor and hungry die! Just like Jesus said!

I don't mind helping the poor and hungry with decent nourishment. I do resent paying for their cigs, booze, and lottery tickets while they throw in a bag of chips for their kids' dinner. Seen this more than once--and this is in stores that were NOT food deserts.

 

[IlDestriero]

Yeah school brings on a lot of pressure. It's a big desicion. I've been in for 14 years and I am considering leaving the Army to go to school and finish my undergrad, take the MCAT and apply for medical school. I would most likely turn around and apply for the HPSP. It's too easy to do a residency, do for years and retire shortly after as a Major/LTC. It really is a good deal!

It's a really good deal when you have 14 years of credit, it's not such a good deal when you are starting from scratch.

 

[samac]

I think he means forcing the people who rely on these programs to actually work. It's not too much to ask. Notice he said "most" of the welfare programs. There are definitely people out there who need these programs, but there are also a ton of people who are taking advantage of the system.

We do know more people use the system appropriately right?
Corporate welfare needs to die. Much bigger budgets for much richer people.

 

[IlDestriero]

yeah. considering i could work 40 hr/week at mcdonalds at $15/hr, work overtime an extra 40 (call it moonlighting) at time and a half $22.5/hr, add $50,000 in Obama/Hillary benefits. That comes out to $128,000/year, no debt, no malpractice, and no press-ganey. I could have been rolling in cash and french fries while you collect a stipend and watch your debt compound.

No fool manager is paying anyone time and a half for a job that requires no education. They don't even want full time people at Walmart, etc as they would have to offer them benefits, etc.
Google that. You'll be shocked and appalled. One of the most profitable companies in history with many multi billionaire family owners and stores filled with cheap part time labor and a handful of full time managers.
Joe HS dropout would be lucky to get 2 25 hour jobs at minimum wage, and no benefits at all.

 

[Doctor Bob]

I don't mind helping the poor and hungry with decent nourishment. I do resent paying for their cigs, booze, and lottery tickets while they throw in a bag of chips for their kids' dinner. Seen this more than once--and this is in stores that were NOT food deserts.

This.

This many times over.

I get irritated when parents bring in their kids for asthma exacerbations and they say they can't afford an albuterol inhaler. But both parents smoke a pack of cigarettes per day. Not only are they exacerbating their kid's condition, but they're also prioritizing their cigarettes over their kid's medicine.

 

[ACSurgeon]

If the minimum wage increases to $15/hour the high school drop-out at Burger King with the attitude will be making more per hour than the person with >8 years post-highschool education whose job it is to save peoples lives. lol. Go, Hillary! Make this country fair!

I'm all for working people making enough money to have a nice life. Including those with unskilled jobs. Your focus should be your earnings. If I'm underpaid as a resident, it does not comfort me to know that the high school drop out has to survive below the poverty line.