D
NPs can now do dermatology residencies
- Thread starter exPCM
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 2,924
- Reaction score
- 1,515
Well, they got that right.
Oh you!
You forgot the part where they also always say, "we're trained to practice medicine AND nursing, so really we provide a well rounded, more hollistic approach with a greater focus on the patients needs and feelings" or some similar baloney.
Freggin' ridonculous. They need to be stopped!
Nobody said otherwise. They just said that NP's /DNP's aren't a sufficient replacement for a physician, despite the efforts of the nursing world to convince the lay people and politicians otherwise.
Well, if you weren't a tool then you'd realize that DNP's / NP's encroaching upon physician territory is working AGAINST each other because it limits patient-physician accessibility.
It will happen, just wait...
The DNP's are purposefully blurring the lines so patients cannot tell the difference. When you've got "Dr. Doe" who is "board certified in Dermatology" people assume it's a physician. However, many DNP's are advertising themselves as such so as to intentionally confuse patients.
And, patients rarely know the difference between "good medical treatment" and "bad medical treatment". They simply know that the NP is more likely to give them the antibiotics they want and have a long sit-down. I can empathize with that mentality, but it is not, at all, indicative of good medical treatment.
Huh? Physicians don'et work with nurses? Okie dokie...
Seriously, I hate to say it but this is precisely why nurses with autonomy is a scary idea. I don't think anybody this stupid could ever make it into medical school.
MD/DO's aren't creating a "movement" to kill people and steal from medicare. That means that when a bad apple pops up, it's simply a bad apple. It's not reflective of the direction of the profession as a whole. The nurses, on the other hand, are actively and institutionally working toward deceiving the public about their education and their competence. So, your analogy is just down-right *****ic because it's beyond apples and oranges (both fruit), it's like apples and steak.
To the above poster, you are a hypocrite. There can't possibly be bad apples going on TV to "represent" NP's, they represent all of us? Only doctors can have a few bad apples representing them, all of the rest of you are perfect.
I am not going to argue on this thread anymore, this is getting ridiculous. Grow up already. You have a lot of balls on here, I would like to see you act so anti-nursing in a clinical setting.
I am not going to argue on this thread anymore, this is getting ridiculous. Grow up already. You have a lot of balls on here, I would like to see you act so anti-nursing in a clinical setting.
Side Note: How ObamaCare loves nurses
Grant program to train nurse practitioners as primary care providers (Section 10501(e), p. 2332)
Grant program to fund nurse-managed health clinics (Section 5208, p. 1310)
All of you tools out there who think that physicians won't get pushed out, you obviously don't understand how much the (increasingly powerful) government is willing to sacrifice, in terms of patient care, in order to cut costs.
Grant program to train nurse practitioners as primary care providers (Section 10501(e), p. 2332)
Grant program to fund nurse-managed health clinics (Section 5208, p. 1310)
All of you tools out there who think that physicians won't get pushed out, you obviously don't understand how much the (increasingly powerful) government is willing to sacrifice, in terms of patient care, in order to cut costs.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2010
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 0
The poster is not a hypocrite. You just ran out of arguments.
So you're leaving? Because, there is really nothing more you can say that's going to change our minds. Got it.
Look who's talking. A nurse talking trash in a real doctor's forum.
You are always daring people to do this and that in a clinical setting. Maybe you need to grow up. And, be a little more humble in regards to what you know and what you need to learn.
Okay, Einstein, pay attention. I'll try to spell it out for you one more time.
* Nurses have initiated a movement to suplant physicians--it is A MOVEMENT! And, it is gaining ground. 28 states now allow completely autonomous nurse practice. So, when they go on TV they are representative of the MOVEMENT of nurses! Sure, not all nurses agree with the movement, but there is a very large subset of the nursing population that is actively involved, and/or high sympathetic toward, a movement designed up uproot physicians all for financial gain and an ego boost, all at the expense of the patient.
* Doctors have NOT initiated any movement to kill, molest, etc. patients. So, when a doctor is convicted of such a heinous crime, there is no need to associate that act with his or her being a physician (it makes it to the news because, to many, it's unreal to believe that people of that "stature" will commit such disgusting crimes, but it has nothing to do with "being" a physician")
Bad apple = the one with a worm in it that a farmer tosses. Movement = Apples recruiting worms to spite a farmer. The case of the murderous physician is a bad apple--as it would be if it were a case of a murderous nurse. The case of the nurses actively utilizing legislation to undermine physicians and endanger patients for all the wrong reasons is a "movement", and would be akin to Apples recruiting worms to spite a farmer.
Well, just realize that when you think you've finally learned to construct a logical argument, you're always welcome to come back for another spanking.
Enough with the insults. Most of us respect a good RN. Very few of us here are anti-nursing. We are, however, anti-nurse-practitioners, especially those who will inevitably take medicine away from physicians.
Precisely. Physicians love a good NURSE who knows he/she is NURSE. What we hate is when nurses think they're doctors and then attempt to supplant us via undercut mechanisms, misinformation, and deception all because said nurses have an inferiority complex and want to be paid more than they're worth.
If you had your student learning AP physics, would you be okay with an elementary teacher (who thinks he/she knows more than he/she does and feels under-appreciated) taking over for a PhD so that the school could save a few bucks? That's the situation right now with Noctors and Physicians... except, even more serious considering ones health is on the line and there isn't an easy-to-read textbook available, as would be in the case of the physics example, that allows a person to quickly diagnose and treat oneself.
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,454
- Reaction score
- 39
Man I really want to know if any doc who supported that pile of crap (bill) still does??
Well, there are some die-hard socialist/communists who would be willing to tear down the world if it gave the poor the illusion of a rising status. But, I think they're a minority. Unfortunately, I still think many others will support it still because, in my opinion, physicians are--unfortunately--just like the rest of America and very susceptible to the "[for X generations my family has been so] I'm a (Democrat/Republican) and I support the people whom I [unjustifiably] trust". So, yeah... I'm sure plenty still support it.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2010
- Messages
- 244
- Reaction score
- 29
Its all well and good to talk about this stuff on here. But, how about putting some of these arguments up for public viewing?
Read the comments. Add some comments.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/educ.../2010/04/15/the-new-doctors-in-the-house.html
The internet-browsing public should not just have articles like this floating out there with only one viewpoint!! Add your views!!
Read the comments. Add some comments.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/educ.../2010/04/15/the-new-doctors-in-the-house.html
The internet-browsing public should not just have articles like this floating out there with only one viewpoint!! Add your views!!
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 2,924
- Reaction score
- 1,515
Probably, many docs/Americans in general still don't know what exactly is in the bill. This will change when we actually start implementing (and paying!) for this monstrosity. HOPE! CHANGE! SI SE PUEDE!
Side note: Whoops! The bill may cost more than projected (insert surprised face here!)
Speaking of, cesar chavez, most people don't know but he was actually strongly against illegal immigration because eh thought it would screw with farmers wages and American farm workers ability to unionize. Looks like he was right.
The irony of the illegal immigrant crowd touting cesar chavez while he'd be turning in his grave is just too much to handle.
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,454
- Reaction score
- 39
115 billion more ... if I remember correctly. I saw that last night, came here to post it, and was seriously too apathetic.
Funny story... watched a urologist doing an emergency penis procedure (its a long story, don't ask). While he was doing it he was talking with the patient, and said "So what do you think of healthcare reform...." and before the patient could answer he jokingly said: "and while you think about your answer, I'm a staunch conservative and I have a needle in your penis"
That urologist is my hero.. hahaha
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,454
- Reaction score
- 39
Hahahahah that's hilarious. I wonder it if was the same Uro from Florida who put up the anti-HC sign in his office
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/02/jack-cassell-doctor-refus_n_523076.html
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2004
- Messages
- 3,218
- Reaction score
- 663
Wish I had more time to follow this thread but here's my 2 cents that I posted on a different thread. These are the steps that physicians need to take NOW.
1) At the local level, each hospital should pass policies prohibiting non-physicians from misrepresenting themselves in the clinical setting. This is what the "The Health Care Truth and Transparency Act" wants to accomplish at the national level. Doing this at the local level is heck of a lot easier to pass than trying to get Congress to act. See orangele's thread.
2) Educate your fellow colleagues about the political realities of medicine. Explain to them the encroachment of NP's. Medical students should start student interest groups called something like "Physicians for the Preservation of Medicine" or something like that where they can present to their classmates and future physicians the training differences between physicians vs NP's, the political activities by the NP's, and what the future of medicine will look like, ie, DNP's demanding to be equivalent to you, if you don't act now. I meet far too many med students, residents, and attendings who are clueless because there is no outlet for these discussions. If nurses get together and plot how to expand their scope, why aren't physicians getting together to plan their response?
3) Educate the public about the differences between the training of physicians and NP's. Educate the lawyers. Lawsuits are a huge deterrent to scope creep. Make it so risky and expensive for NP's to take over medicine that only the most fool-hardy would dare. Being a resident you see how easy it is to injure or kill someone with poor decision-making. When these non-physicians commit malpractice (something which I see all the time), inform the patients and encourage them to contact a lawyer. It just takes 1 untimely death or lawsuit for the policies of the entire hospital to change. Remember that hospitals are reactionary and highly CYA.
4) Encourage real outcome studies that compare physicians and non-physicians. You see NP's touting studies that claim no difference between them and physicians. We all know that these studies are flawed but the public and the lawmakers do not. Just based on experience, we all know that non-physicians have poorer clinical decision-making than physicians. Let's capture that information is a well-designed, highly powered study that forms the gold standard. Don't let NP's take over medicine because they put out poorly designed, biased studies and were able to lobby lawmakers based on them.
2) Educate your fellow colleagues about the political realities of medicine. Explain to them the encroachment of NP's. Medical students should start student interest groups called something like "Physicians for the Preservation of Medicine" or something like that where they can present to their classmates and future physicians the training differences between physicians vs NP's, the political activities by the NP's, and what the future of medicine will look like, ie, DNP's demanding to be equivalent to you, if you don't act now. I meet far too many med students, residents, and attendings who are clueless because there is no outlet for these discussions. If nurses get together and plot how to expand their scope, why aren't physicians getting together to plan their response?
3) Educate the public about the differences between the training of physicians and NP's. Educate the lawyers. Lawsuits are a huge deterrent to scope creep. Make it so risky and expensive for NP's to take over medicine that only the most fool-hardy would dare. Being a resident you see how easy it is to injure or kill someone with poor decision-making. When these non-physicians commit malpractice (something which I see all the time), inform the patients and encourage them to contact a lawyer. It just takes 1 untimely death or lawsuit for the policies of the entire hospital to change. Remember that hospitals are reactionary and highly CYA.
4) Encourage real outcome studies that compare physicians and non-physicians. You see NP's touting studies that claim no difference between them and physicians. We all know that these studies are flawed but the public and the lawmakers do not. Just based on experience, we all know that non-physicians have poorer clinical decision-making than physicians. Let's capture that information is a well-designed, highly powered study that forms the gold standard. Don't let NP's take over medicine because they put out poorly designed, biased studies and were able to lobby lawmakers based on them.
Let the people that dare to do it, face the heat.Edited to add: If this post was not clear, its supposed to mean that the NP's who are daring to take on that level of responsibilty are the fools and should take the heat. The rest of us would rather not bite off more than we can chew and get ourselves into hot water.
Last edited:
I am frankly more and more appalled by the immaturity and arrogance displayed on this forum by medical students who, frankly, seem to have chosen the wrong career. If we were to socialize medicine tomorrow, who among you would still be in it? Speaking of ENTIRE FIELDS like dermatology as the "crown jewel" of the MD students is rather myopic. We should have as many health practitioners as possible working the fields of Dermatology and all others- to deliver diverse and quality treatment to OUR PATIENTS. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU, IT IS ABOUT YOUR SKILLS AS A HEALTH PRACTITIONER AND ULTIMATELY THE HEALTH OF YOUR PATIENT.
and yes, i AM a current medical student, but i have nothing but respect for other health practitioners, including RNs, NPs, DNPs, PAs, etc., and certainly I have no envy/resentment of them moving ahead with their careers and getting advanced training. That is sick. GROW UP.
and yes, i AM a current medical student, but i have nothing but respect for other health practitioners, including RNs, NPs, DNPs, PAs, etc., and certainly I have no envy/resentment of them moving ahead with their careers and getting advanced training. That is sick. GROW UP.
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7,084
- Reaction score
- 4,869
Really now? One post? Troll+Noctor=Troctor.
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,454
- Reaction score
- 39
Shhhhh. The adults are talking .... go play over there ->
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2010
- Messages
- 274
- Reaction score
- 249
Out of curiosity, what year are you in your training? I would be very impressed by your selfless altruism if you were starting your fourth year next fall, looking 3+ years of residency in the face, and still had such a perspective! Perhaps you are and you do, in which case I applaud you.
Otherwise, I can only say that your viewpoint was by far the most prevalent at my medical school in years 1/2 (less so as time progressed) but is now very, very hard to come by as I talk to my colleagues who are all recently graduated.
Forget financial, occupational, and other selfish concerns for a moment. The one thing I think everyone just starting intern year has in common is a complete sense of apprehension about how even after four years, we still know so little about medicine and are amazed by how much more we have to learn.
I for the life of me can't figure out how so many can boast that they are not only "equal but superior" to physicians with almost a decade or more of medical training after maybe 15% the number of hours of training and study. I would never imagine taking a 3-month course on "nursing" and then purport to be equal or superior at nursing than actual nurses.
So back to the point of patient safety, given how much more about medicine I think every new intern feels they need to learn...how can you honestly assert that independent practice of medicine by people whose training is far less comprehensive and lengthy is a good thing for anything aside from the bottom dollar of the various state and federal health agencies that are encouraging this trend?
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2010
- Messages
- 244
- Reaction score
- 29
Here, I will argue that it will ultimately destroy the bottom dollar within 10 years, and I am really only considering FNPs...
An increase of FNPs practicing independently, yet charging the same rates as GP physicians will drive healthcare costs up even more. Here is the logical progression, and the starting points the progression is based upon. Feel free to pick apart both, because some of the starting points are based on NP propaganda, but I will conclude that even if they ARE all true, it will still drive up the cost of US healthcare.
=thing that will drive up costs (aren't we lucky?)STARTING POINTS:
1) Healthcare in the US is still mostly free market. Although cumbersome due to regulations and insurance and gov't bureaucracy, patients can still largely choose their providers to some degree, especially if they are willing to pay.
2) FNPs can provide quality care for 80% of the things GPs deal with daily.
3) FNPs will refer the remaining 20% to specialists.
4) FNPs will act as "quarterbacks" of patient care in a patient home approach, coordinating specialists as needed.
5) The push for more NPs succeeds, as Mary Mundinger and others recruit more NPs. Some of these recruits may have chosen medical school, but were swayed to realize that NP training was equivalent and they decided that since NP training was faster and easier, they would choose that route.
6) Patients are swayed by NP propaganda also, and choose FNPs as their primary care providers unhesitatingly.
7) FNPs conserve costs for patients.
LOGICAL OUTCROPPINGS ENSUE:
1) The push for more NPs leads to an increasingly large cohort of young, new NPs, who have exactly the minimum training required.
2) These new FNPs see the value in opening up their own clinics, and earning more than a physician due to lower malpractice insurance. Therefore, most do so within their first year of earning their DNP.
3) However, rather than treating 80% of the things GPs treated, this new, large cohort of FNPs dip lower in the percentage, and begin referring more and more patients to specialists.
4) Not only do specialist referrals increase unnecessarily, but diagnoses are missed more frequently, because many NPs have only met the minimum training requirements, and have only 2-3 years of online training. Lawsuits begin popping up nationally. Malpractice insurance for FNPs rises to levels even exceeding GPs, because they are perceived as such a risk do to the frequency of misdiagnoses, and lower level of training.
5) By this point, the US has even FEWER medical students entering primary care, because it is perceived that they are over-trained and should specialize to utilize their training. Healthcare is officially in the tank.
6) Those patients who can will pay GPs more due to the immense shortage of GPs.
7) Eventually, society will realize that NP training was just not sufficient to accomplish all of the things a GP can do. NPs, however, will probably need doctors to lobby for them just to let them work for physicians and see patients under physician supervision due to the huge level of mistrust they generated when they took over primary care.
NOTE: I don't really see ALL of this happening, but if Mary Mundinger were in charge of revamping our health delivery system, with the (somewhat) free market left intact, I am certain these things would result.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2010
- Messages
- 274
- Reaction score
- 249
Point taken. I guess I should have said the "perceived" improvement in bottom line, at least in the short term. I think it will in reality be a repeat of the 90s gatekeeper model x10. It won't end up saving time or money, and patients will just become more and more frustrated.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2007
- Messages
- 595
- Reaction score
- 2
So, apparently, my post was deleted by moderators.... so, I will link the other thread. Take a look at what the ANA response to the new bill by congress. I hope these specialty organizations are able to keep the pressure up.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9685114#post9685114
Let me thank the moderators again for stopping the spread of information...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9685114#post9685114
Let me thank the moderators again for stopping the spread of information...
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2000
- Messages
- 39,952
- Reaction score
- 18,717
So, apparently, my post was deleted by moderators.... so, I will link the other thread. Take a look at what the ANA response to the new bill by congress. I hope these specialty organizations are able to keep the pressure up.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9685114#post9685114
Let me thank the moderators again for stopping the spread of information...
The moderator(s) deleted your other thread because it was cross-posted in more than 1 forum - a violation of the SDN Terms of Service agreement you signed when you registered. Most users read multiple forums and it is therefore not necessary to make multiple posts on the same topics.
You received a notification of that action and yet, still posted this response. Please review the TOS for the reasoning behind the administrative actions before making accusations of censorship.
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 1,845
- Reaction score
- 24
Been kind of a trend around here lately, and instead of banning the trolls the mods are starting to shut down threads.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2000
- Messages
- 39,952
- Reaction score
- 18,717
Been kind of a trend around here lately, and instead of banning the trolls the mods are starting to shut down threads.
In an attempt to clarify the issue:
nurses are not banned from the site simply for posting. Although they are not members of the SDN 9 Core Communities, as long as the follow the TOS, they are welcome to post here. Posting an unpopular response does not make one a troll.
SDN Staff follows a protocol for administrative action when a user violates the Terms of Service (TOS). The protocol is the same for medical student, physician, or nurse. Sometimes users that others complain about are simply being a PITA but are not violating the TOS. Although we reserve the right to refuse use of SDN to anyone at our discretion, the fact is that we try and apply the rules fairly, regardless of a member's status.
Therefore, simply banning the nurses from posting, if they have not violated the TOS and are not known as a return bannee, would not be fair. That sort of action is what happens on allnurses.com - where one can be banned wily-nily for simply disagreeing with management or for not being a nurse and drinking their Kool-Aid. SDN is better than that and although we make mistakes, and the TOS is not always applied fairly, we do attempt to do so. Its whats right and what all users would prefer.
If at any time the nurses do violate the TOS or we receive multiple complaints about them (as we did for mooshika), then they are subject to adminstrative action just like any other user. It is the rare user who goes immediately to banning - most users get warnings, infractions, post-holds, etc. before the "final decision". Sometimes closing a thread is the best option.
I hope this clarifies things.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2002
- Messages
- 2,394
- Reaction score
- 532
I've been banned from allnurses. Believe me, if a moderator says the sky is green, you'd better say, "It's green, all right!" or else.
I appreciate being able to post here. People here have no idea how much slack the mods. give members. If nurses want to post here, they have to learn to be a bit more discerning when it comes to the "venting" posts. Not every vent is a slam against the entire profession.
Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
I appreciate being able to post here. People here have no idea how much slack the mods. give members. If nurses want to post here, they have to learn to be a bit more discerning when it comes to the "venting" posts. Not every vent is a slam against the entire profession.
Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
- Joined
- May 6, 2006
- Messages
- 269
- Reaction score
- 1
I think you missed his point which was that instead of closing a good thread users who misbehave should be the ones sanctioned.
No reason why the rest of us users can't enjoy a good thread because some user (and the mod IMHO) act up.
My 2 cents.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2000
- Messages
- 39,952
- Reaction score
- 18,717
I understand the frustration but I don't think I misunderstood the complaint.
You have no way of knowing whether or not the users involved received any sanctions. As a matter of fact, several users did receive sanctions. At least 2 were warned and another banned. One sent me several threatening PMs after such action. The moderator posted more than 1 "behave" note in the thread yet the **** continued.
Remember, the nurses weren't the only ones in the thread name calling and generally misbehaving. We try and follow the administrative protocol - sometimes it works and users calm down or go away, other times it does not. Being a PITA is not a bannable offense (sadly).
Unfortunately, sometimes threads get closed when users refuse to follow staff admonishments. Its the old "one bad apple" action - all of us have been around here long enough to see that if tiresome threads aren't closed, they eventually further degenerate.
SDN users have a curious trait that they want insta-banning of users they disagree with or don't like. Yet when they themselves are guilty of a TOS violation they don't want even a
let alone a warning. I and other staff members are quite bemused by this.I know this seems stupid. But sometimes closing a thread is the best way of dealing with irritating and/or potentially unstable users. Every one of the current Admin staff has received personal and professional threats from users who are unhappy with how things have been managed. One user even showed up at one of our offices, making threats. I prefer to keep SDN Legal Counsel bored and not escalate things if at all possible.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2007
- Messages
- 804
- Reaction score
- 4
You know what really drives me nuts? Some of these nurses that are posting inflammatory comments are premeds that would be in crazy awe of some of the practicing attendings they are arguing with here. Ex. Winged Scapula. Only an idiot on SDN could not figure out how to google her background. Some of the attendings that post here are fellows also. In any normal IN PERSON circumstance, respectful discussion and appreciation of their insight of what they have seen in medicine and their opinion would occur. On SDN for some reason, people ignore all credentials, assume the attendings are idiots, ignore fellows (because they just must not know) and as I saw in another post - equate residents with medical students. Unbelievable! If any of this happened in an in-person situation at a teaching hospital - I literally would pull out popcorn, hide between equipment on the wall and watch the premed get handed their a** on a platter.
I understand the frustration but I don't think I misunderstood the complaint.
You have no way of knowing whether or not the users involved received any sanctions. As a matter of fact, several users did receive sanctions. At least 2 were warned and another banned. One sent me several threatening PMs after such action. The moderator posted more than 1 "behave" note in the thread yet the **** continued.
Remember, the nurses weren't the only ones in the thread name calling and generally misbehaving. We try and follow the administrative protocol - sometimes it works and users calm down or go away, other times it does not. Unfortunately, sometimes threads get closed when users refuse to follow staff admonishments. Its the old "one bad apple" action - all of us have been around here long enough to see that if tiresome threads aren't closed, they eventually further degenerate.
SDN users have a curious trait that they want insta-banning of users they disagree with or don't like. Being a PITA is not a TOS violation. Yet when they themselves are guilty of a TOS violation they don't want even a
I know this seems stupid. But sometimes closing a thread is the best way of dealing with irritating and/or potentially unstable users. Every one of the current Admin staff has received personal and professional threats from users who are unhappy with how things have been managed. One user even showed up at one of our offices, making threats. I prefer to keep SDN Legal Counsel bored and not escalate things if at all possible.
- Joined
- May 1, 2010
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
I understand the frustration but I don't think I misunderstood the complaint.
You have no way of knowing whether or not the users involved received any sanctions. As a matter of fact, several users did receive sanctions. At least 2 were warned and another banned. One sent me several threatening PMs after such action. The moderator posted more than 1 "behave" note in the thread yet the **** continued.
Remember, the nurses weren't the only ones in the thread name calling and generally misbehaving. We try and follow the administrative protocol - sometimes it works and users calm down or go away, other times it does not. Being a PITA is not a bannable offense (sadly).
Unfortunately, sometimes threads get closed when users refuse to follow staff admonishments. Its the old "one bad apple" action - all of us have been around here long enough to see that if tiresome threads aren't closed, they eventually further degenerate.
SDN users have a curious trait that they want insta-banning of users they disagree with or don't like. Yet when they themselves are guilty of a TOS violation they don't want even a
I know this seems stupid. But sometimes closing a thread is the best way of dealing with irritating and/or potentially unstable users. Every one of the current Admin staff has received personal and professional threats from users who are unhappy with how things have been managed. One user even showed up at one of our offices, making threats. I prefer to keep SDN Legal Counsel bored and not escalate things if at all possible.
I agree, threads like this should be shut down. This thread has fostered hateful remarks from both sides. If patients viewed this site they would be appalled. If the people who are writing these ridiculous remarks were out in the real world and using their real name, they would be sued for defamation. Most of the information is inaccurate and people are celebrating things that are untrue. What you don't realize (the people who think they know what is really happening out there) is that you will look foolish when the truth/reality is finally revealed. Your accusations are dangerous and you speak about things you don't understand. You don't have all the facts, yet you run your mouth. That makes you a liability. A true debate is based on facts. This could have been a healthy discussion, but people have turned it into an ugly spectacle. There is nothing to be boastful or happy about in this thread.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2010
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 0
Some attendings here say some stupid **** and they need to be called on it. Their status as attendings should not prevent some of us who have been in the trenches to call them out on the BS. Your position as a medical student to respect attendings however is a venerable one and I applaud you for that.
I also agree that we can't simply ban nurses just because they continue to argue, however ridiculous their arguments. That would be unfair. Although, I've many times been frustrated by some of their posts and wish them to leave, unless they are being out of line, they shouldn't be banned. It does amaze me how much our perspectives differ. They are really out of touch with my reality. Again, as I said before, a nurse can never truly understand what its like to be a resident/physician until they walk the same path. As long as they don't, they will never sympathize.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2007
- Messages
- 595
- Reaction score
- 2
I understand the frustration but I don't think I misunderstood the complaint.
You have no way of knowing whether or not the users involved received any sanctions. As a matter of fact, several users did receive sanctions. At least 2 were warned and another banned. One sent me several threatening PMs after such action. The moderator posted more than 1 "behave" note in the thread yet the **** continued.
Remember, the nurses weren't the only ones in the thread name calling and generally misbehaving. We try and follow the administrative protocol - sometimes it works and users calm down or go away, other times it does not. Being a PITA is not a bannable offense (sadly).
Unfortunately, sometimes threads get closed when users refuse to follow staff admonishments. Its the old "one bad apple" action - all of us have been around here long enough to see that if tiresome threads aren't closed, they eventually further degenerate.
SDN users have a curious trait that they want insta-banning of users they disagree with or don't like. Yet when they themselves are guilty of a TOS violation they don't want even a
I know this seems stupid. But sometimes closing a thread is the best way of dealing with irritating and/or potentially unstable users. Every one of the current Admin staff has received personal and professional threats from users who are unhappy with how things have been managed. One user even showed up at one of our offices, making threats. I prefer to keep SDN Legal Counsel bored and not escalate things if at all possible.
Wow, I do agree that many arguments get heated on SDN ... but, that's ridiculous.
I agree with wine is good. Sometimes, attendings can be just as ignorant as any one else (I know crazy, right?). And they should be called out for it.
Granted, the majority of the time, most attendings, especially winged scapula are very insightful.
Sorry, Winged, I was just venting. Your def one of the better moderators on the forum.
Really?! That's pretty ridiculous... welcome to the small, egotistical world of medicine. *sigh*
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2004
- Messages
- 842
- Reaction score
- 149
Interesting thought... could a medical student act as an expert witness against a DNP since they have more clinical time than graduating DNP's?
- Joined
- May 7, 2010
- Messages
- 25
- Reaction score
- 2
Doubt it, med students haven't reached minimum requirements in their respective field of expertise.
And besides, you'd never have a case. Even the jury would know using DNPs to set the bar would be too low
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2010
- Messages
- 11,808
- Reaction score
- 2,807
I know this is a couple months old, but I have to ask:
What can us lowly undergrads do about this, if anything? What can anyone do? Besides just telling people and helping awareness of this issue spread by word of mouth, do we write to our congressman or what? Demand patient rights to know the qualifications of whoever provides their care?
I was completely unaware of any of this before I came to SDN, so I assume most people are as well, and it's made me pretty worried about the future of medicine...
What can us lowly undergrads do about this, if anything? What can anyone do? Besides just telling people and helping awareness of this issue spread by word of mouth, do we write to our congressman or what? Demand patient rights to know the qualifications of whoever provides their care?
I was completely unaware of any of this before I came to SDN, so I assume most people are as well, and it's made me pretty worried about the future of medicine...
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2010
- Messages
- 2,693
- Reaction score
- 3,684
Word of mouth and writing your congressman is exactly what you can do. A bunch of doctor's writing about curtailing NP independence come across as too interested in their bottom line or maintaining the status quo. A bunch of concerned citizens, however will send a message that you will not stand for having your primary care dumbed down to cookbook level and he should be prepared for a political backlash if he votes expanded NP privalages.
- Joined
- May 11, 2008
- Messages
- 4,078
- Reaction score
- 42
I think utilizing the media will also be a great way to bring the lack of training of NPs/DNPs, etc, to the attention of the general public. So far, I can only think of one article that says NPs/DNPs encroaching into medicine is a bad thing. All the other 2 million articles just talk about how nurses are the best thing since string cheese, how NPs/DNPs are just like doctors but better, etc.
I've actually been corresponding with a journalist at the Wall Street Journal. She's interested in potentially using some of the stuff I've posted (the NP/DNP vs. MD/DO curricula comparison in particular) to write an article pointing out all the negatives of an expansion of scope of practice for NPs/DNPs. So far, it's still sort of preliminary but I'm hopeful that something will come out of this. I plan on contacting journalists at various other newspapers as well, both local and more national (ie. NYT).
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2010
- Messages
- 103
- Reaction score
- 0
The nurses/their lobby use TV as well Hawthorne and nurse Jackie all portray docs as idiots and cruel..I would not he surprised in a state with the strongest nursing lobby (Cali) that they push for these shows after all the shows that idolize docs...with media they are attempting to change the publics perception of them into doctors or someone with equivalent training...not true!
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2010
- Messages
- 103
- Reaction score
- 0
Great idea, someone should really use the search function collect all the major points and hit up all the media sources they can, maybe even just ghost write the whole article for some journalist or a strong letter to the editor, as long as it gets out there and people know the true difference in DNP and doctor, and the intentions of the nursing lobby to have a nurse practice medicine
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2010
- Messages
- 103
- Reaction score
- 0
Post in on here first so people can proof read it and make sure you included all the major points
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2008
- Messages
- 1,359
- Reaction score
- 3
the liberal media favors the nursing movement. don't expect that to happen.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
- Messages
- 601
- Reaction score
- 7
Try to put it on congress.org and also send it to the senators.
Similar threads
