Not asked to give tours to applicants

[chitown2012]

I found out I was not asked by the chiefs to give tours to residency applicants which felt like a punch to the gut. I have no idea how they chose which residents should give tours but I’m on an elective next month and would’ve been available. I decided to email the chiefs to let them know I could give tours if they needed anyone and they told me they already had tours covered for the year.

I guess it makes me feel like I’m not someone they want to show off the program? Is there anyway for me to find out if there was a specific reason I wasn’t chosen? Should I just let it go?

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[jurassicpark]

Is giving tours a big thing in your program? Could others have volunteered beforehand and everything was covered? Unless giving tours is a per-requisite to becoming chief or whatnot just let it go. We used tours to get some better grub for lunch and to scope out anyone hot..

 

[chitown2012]

Is giving tours a big thing in your program? Could others have volunteered beforehand and everything was covered? Unless giving tours is a per-requisite to becoming chief or whatnot just let it go. We used tours to get some better grub for lunch and to scope out anyone hot..

No it wasn’t on a volunteer basis, as I never heard about them asking people to volunteer, they just selected certain people to give tours by emailing them. As residents we still go to the lunches with applicants and pre-interview dinners so we get free grub that way lol. I guess I just felt hurt they didn’t ask me to help give a tour when I’m on elective and completely free to do so.

 

[jurassicpark]

No it wasn’t on a volunteer basis, as I never heard about them asking people to volunteer, they just selected certain people to give tours by emailing them. As residents we still go to the lunches with applicants and pre-interview dinners so we get free grub that way lol. I guess I just felt hurt they didn’t ask me to help give a tour when I’m on elective and completely free to do so.

Eh. I'd just let it go then.. get a stiff drink or something. It could just be the chiefs just filled the slots with their close friends or whomever they were rotating with at that time.

 

[smq123]

I found out I was not asked by the chiefs to give tours to residency applicants which felt like a punch to the gut. I have no idea how they chose which residents should give tours but I’m on an elective next month and would’ve been available. I decided to email the chiefs to let them know I could give tours if they needed anyone and they told me they already had tours covered for the year.

I guess it makes me feel like I’m not someone they want to show off the program? Is there anyway for me to find out if there was a specific reason I wasn’t chosen? Should I just let it go?

Let it go. At best, there’s no particular reason why you weren’t chosen, and now you’ll look unnecessarily neurotic. At worst, there WAS a reason, and now you’ll be self conscious and resentful and it may negatively affect the way you do your job. As long as you’re doing well clinically and academically (e.g, you’re scoring well on ITEs), then that’s all they really need from you.

 

[smq123]

Also, as someone who’s given residency tours, it’s not that exciting. The only thing it was good for was to see the ridiculous things that some people did on what is actually a job interview.

 

[chitown2012]

Let it go. At best, there’s no particular reason why you weren’t chosen, and now you’ll look unnecessarily neurotic. At worst, there WAS a reason, and now you’ll be self conscious and resentful and it may negatively affect the way you do your job. As long as you’re doing well clinically and academically (e.g, you’re scoring well on ITEs), then that’s all they really need from you.

Yes I agree, just wish I knew the reason though... I do very well on the ITE. I wonder if it comes down to who seems the most out-going? Just seems so silly...

 

[Ironheme]

Agree with above, tours not that exciting to give. I prefer not to because I'm usually swamped with work. They usually pick one or two people they have in mind (rotations, personality, etc) to voluntold them. Your neurosis is showing through your posts though, and if it comes across to applicants, it may give the impression your program has overly stressed or worried residents.

Best people to give tours are the relaxed, well informed ones that show the program in the best light. Seriously though, why would you WANT to give tours?

 

[Sushirolls]

Think about residency recruitment similar to college fraternities or sororities. If a program is doing it right, they will put their best out on the front lines. That may mean a personable resident who is more capable of conversation, or perhaps knowledgeable, or identifiable as an archetype to the future residents they would like to select, etc. Or it may even be a selection based upon belief of who has the most time to spare relative to other residents. There are lots of reasons why you might not have been selected.

But chances are no program is so optimized to think about recruitment to such a heightened level to declare who/what they want and how to recruit that type of candidate - recruitment if like a college frat/sorority is a year long endeavor - recruitment season is every day. I'd venture to say its more of an after thought and simply at the discretion of the chiefs. I'm of the opinion programs select the best 'Yes (wo)man' to be a chief. They don't want political trouble and they want the middle management (Chiefs) to keep the rif-raf in line, not rock the boat, and buffer the PD or APD from BS stirred up by the peons.

Move on, and enjoy your free time. Channel your positive energy to connect with future generations by teaching the med students, younger residents currently on your service and in the future once your done with the program. That's where you will impact change - not at the interview level. For whatever reason you aren't in the political 'in crowd.' Forget about it, and move on. Once you are done and out as an attending this blip in your life experience won't even mean anything.

Go do something fun.

 

[chitown2012]

Think about residency recruitment similar to college fraternities or sororities. If a program is doing it right, they will put their best out on the front lines. That may mean a personable resident who is more capable of conversation, or perhaps knowledgeable, or identifiable as an archetype to the future residents they would like to select, etc. Or it may even be a selection based upon belief of who has the most time to spare relative to other residents. There are lots of reasons why you might not have been selected.

But chances are no program is so optimized to think about recruitment to such a heightened level to declare who/what they want and how to recruit that type of candidate - recruitment if like a college frat/sorority is a year long endeavor - recruitment season is every day. I'd venture to say its more of an after thought and simply at the discretion of the chiefs. I'm of the opinion programs select the best 'Yes (wo)man' to be a chief. They don't want political trouble and they want the middle management (Chiefs) to keep the rif-raf in line, not rock the boat, and buffer the PD or APD from BS stirred up by the peons.

Move on, and enjoy your free time. Channel your positive energy to connect with future generations by teaching the med students, younger residents currently on your service and in the future once your done with the program. That's where you will impact change - not at the interview level. For whatever reason you aren't in the political 'in crowd.' Forget about it, and move on. Once you are done and out as an attending this blip in your life experience won't even mean anything.

Go do something fun.

Thanks. I do feel hurt and confused and it’s already interfering with my productivity and causing self-doubt. I am very clearly going to be on an elective where I could’ve volunteered time. I can’t help but wonder if there’s something I don’t know. Maybe my personality sucks?

 

[Dave1980]

Isn't giving tours one of those things that no one wants to do? Consider yourself lucky OP.

 

[deleted50541]

Thanks. I do feel hurt and confused and it’s already interfering with my productivity and causing self-doubt. I am very clearly going to be on an elective where I could’ve volunteered time. I can’t help but wonder if there’s something I don’t know. Maybe my personality sucks?

Agreed. Don't worry about it. I was part of the selection committee my chief year for new residents and we just took whomever was around and/or was already actively involved in resident leadership (two residents per year) to help with tours/interviews.

Invariably, it tended to be the same people each interview day because they already knew the flow of the day.

 

[candbgirl]

Why don’t you just go find your chief and ask why you weren’t selected or even asked? It seems to be really bothering you and you need to be able to move on. I think at this point you are so wound up in hurt feelings you have to find out so you can put your mind at ease.

 

[rokshana]

Thanks. I do feel hurt and confused and it’s already interfering with my productivity and causing self-doubt. I am very clearly going to be on an elective where I could’ve volunteered time. I can’t help but wonder if there’s something I don’t know. Maybe my personality sucks?

Really? You must not have much to do on your elective...did you get participation trophies as a child?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Isn't giving tours one of those things that no one wants to do? Consider yourself lucky OP.

lol yeah OP do you have fireworks on your tour or something? they were always begging people to do tours in our program...

 

[Mass Effect]

No it wasn’t on a volunteer basis, as I never heard about them asking people to volunteer, they just selected certain people to give tours by emailing them. As residents we still go to the lunches with applicants and pre-interview dinners so we get free grub that way lol. I guess I just felt hurt they didn’t ask me to help give a tour when I’m on elective and completely free to do so.

What year are you and how long is your program? At my program, only senior residents gave tours, even if others were available. Tours were given by outgoing people who were fans of the program AND were involved enough with the program that they could answer questions about the hospital and the program as a whole (specifics about other PGY years).

 

[chitown2012]

What year are you and how long is your program? At my program, only senior residents gave tours, even if others were available. Tours were given by outgoing people who were fans of the program AND were involved enough with the program that they could answer questions about the hospital and the program as a whole (specifics about other PGY years).

Yeah I hear you, but I am involved in the residency. I’m on the resident version of student government for my program... lol. So I don’t get it.

 

[chitown2012]

What year are you and how long is your program? At my program, only senior residents gave tours, even if others were available. Tours were given by outgoing people who were fans of the program AND were involved enough with the program that they could answer questions about the hospital and the program as a whole (specifics about other PGY years).

I’m a senior resident

 

[smq123]

The fact that you keep perseverating on something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential, is pretty indicative of the problem.

Dude (or dudette), LET IT GO. It doesn't matter. As long as you're competent and not so socially mal-adjusted that you'll never get a job or a fellowship, then move on. Maybe you're not the popular kid in your residency program, but who cares? Being asked to give tours is not some major honor that you're missing out on.

 

[thumbz]

Have you ever grumbled about the program, or work hours, or schedule changes? Being on the residency government probably means yes as your job is to advocate for the residents...

We do everything possible to keep our residents who are even a smidge unhappy as far away from the candidates as humanly possibly

 

[unleash500]

Why does this even matter ? Such an odd thing to wonder about imo. I was not chosen to give any tours and I couldn’t be happier. More free time for me. Just be secure in yourself.

 

[TheSingularity]

Really weird thing to even want to do that passionately to begin with.

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[Mad Jack]

Really weird thing to even want to do that passionately to begin with.

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Was gonna say the same, it's one of those duties I'd often rather not deal with but I enjoy meeting applicants so overall it's neither good nor bad

 

[NuttyEngDude]

I would do anything to not have to give tours or even deal with the interviews at my program.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I would not want someone this upset about not giving a tour, to give a tour

Fair

 

[futuredo32]

I did one half of my residency at one program and one half at another. Anyone could do interviews at my first program. There became big problems at program number one so I switched PG3 to program number 2, big mistake. I was clearly unhappy and very vocal about it,, I wasn't asked to do anything with respect to residency dinners or lunches or interviewing at that program. I actually said that if they asked me to I would be quite honest and obviously they were smart enough not to.

 

[agranulocytosis]

I would not want someone this upset about not giving a tour, to give a tour

Fair

Agreed. It's just a tour. I wish I didn't have to do any tours, but I had to. Multiple. I tend to not enjoy talking so much, so it sucked.

What I would more concerned about is the interviewee/resident group breakfast/lunch/Q&A session. If I were not invited to that, that's a big sign. Generally they want ALL the residents/fellows there.

 

[aafisahar]

The tour is the worst part of the day. No one cares what your hospital looks like and no one will remember in 2 weeks. It's a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Sardonix]

The tour is the worst part of the day. No one cares what your hospital looks like and no one will remember in 2 weeks. It's a waste of everyone's time.

"Do you guys have any questions? So anyway, this is the L/D room. It's got a bed... it's a bed like most other beds. Oh--was that a hand for a question? You can tell because it looks like a bed, but with some stirrups. There's a fridge in case you want to refrigerate things I guess. You sure about those questions? Oh, and these unique movable lights are from 1970s. I think they're pretty retro, but the patients don't seem to care about them when they're pushing a baby out of their body for some reason. They're a big hit with the dads though. I mean, I guess I meant the grand dads once the baby is born (hehe). Um... do you guys have any questions? No?

So that was our L/D room. The post-partum rooms are three floors up and in a different wing of the hospital for some reason. Some residents say it's a hassle to get there but I like to get my steps in. Just reminds me that we like to work hard AND play hard, amirite? Any questions? Do you guys wanna see the post-partum rooms? They're like literally any other post-partum room everyone has seen, but with some space. We can talk about it while we take the painfully slow elevator up and then down. Any questions?"

 

[akwho]

As someone who has been asked to give 2 tours per year for 4 years, I'd rather have 8 Saturdays of my life back.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Have you ever grumbled about the program, or work hours, or schedule changes? Being on the residency government probably means yes as your job is to advocate for the residents...

We do everything possible to keep our residents who are even a smidge unhappy as far away from the candidates as humanly possibly

Exactly. I am fairly sure this is why I wasn't offered the option to give tours or talk to the ACGME visiting commiittee lol.

They did let me do interviews so maybe I'm being paranoid about this.

 

[Temeraire]

I’m one of the saltiest, most burned out residents in my program yet they still asked me to give tours last year, they’re ok with me signing up for the recruitment dinners, and they pair me with visiting med students/sub-i’s. Just need warm bodies to do this stuff

 

[D P356]

I volunteered while on an elective month. Even told PD I wanted to give a tour on X date. Date came around, I was covering for the person who was giving the tour. Was a little salty about it, but then again I could see why. They liked and had better people for the job.

Remember that you’re there to learn your field of medicine. We had a resident in my class who said, “residency is a s*** sandwich, eat it or starve.”

 

[Mass Effect]

As someone who has been asked to give 2 tours per year for 4 years, I'd rather have 8 Saturdays of my life back.

Why were you giving tours on Saturday? Did your program interview on Saturdays? I didn't realize weekend interviews were a thing.

 

[rokshana]

Why were you giving tours on Saturday? Did your program interview on Saturdays? I didn't realize weekend interviews were a thing.

In surgery and surgery suv specialties , it’s not that unusual.

 

[akwho]

Why were you giving tours on Saturday? Did your program interview on Saturdays? I didn't realize weekend interviews were a thing.

Surgical subspeciality. We do a dinner/drinks Friday night and interviews Saturday mornings/days.

 

[feb14]

My PD hand picks who to sit on the table and who to give tours to applicants just to make sure they do not hear what he does not want them to hear- no preinterview dinner is offered not even sitting on didactics. applicants are isolated in a separate room the whole time awaiting to interview, take the tour and leave.. you are not the only person who was not chosen, i can tell you , in jy program maybe only 10 or 15 residents are alternating to give tours ( out of 50 residents)!