Noorda vs. ACOM vs. ICOM

[yatosmato]

Hey guys,


I was fortunate enough to get accepted to multiple medical schools this year, and I have narrowed it down to my top 3 choices. This is, unfortunately, where it gets tricky- all 3 choices seem good on paper that I am having trouble choosing which one is better.


NoordaCOM:

PROS

• Flexible curriculum (very important for me, as I am a learner who prefers making my own schedule and watching lectures at my own pace. Sitting in a traditional lecture is anti-productive for me). The unique flipped classroom being offered here is the biggest appeal.
• Emphasis on research. Aside from academics, I’ve heard that going to a research-oriented school is beneficial.
• Cadaver lab
• I managed to find a private loan lender that is offering an interest rate lower than the federal rate.
• The staff/faculty come off as extremely supportive. Because it is a new school, it does seem like they’re doing their absolute best to make everyone succeed.
• Their first years scored close to the national average for level 1.
• The school does its best to prepare you for boards- offers multitude of board prep such as amboss and first aid
• 0% attrition as of now (major plus)
• Location: I like that in every direction, you’d reach a major metropolitan city within 6 hours. Essentially, there’s more to do/places to visit in the little time you have off.

CONS

• The most obvious is that there is no match data, as there are only two existing classes so far.
• COA is on the higher end and no PSLF or income based repayment due to private loans
• The kinks of the curriculum are still being ironed out, and growing pains have been noted by current students
• The research facility is still being built
• ECs likely limited for the time-being
• Far away from home (I’m from Michigan)

ACOM:
PROS

• Established institution, so they have a pretty sturdy curriculum. They also have a good match list, with students not only matching into competitive specialties, but also at prestigious institutions (both of which are important to me)
• Closer to home location wise, though still far as it is a 14 hour drive.
• Known to prepare students well for boards, also has a state of the art sim lab to prepare students for clinical work
• COA is about 10k less annually than both Noorda and ICOM. It is also a private, non-profit organization that is fully accredited.
• Plenty of clubs and interest groups
• Not *too* important, but the weather is always warm, which is a plus for a thermophile like myself.

CONS

• Dothan is a bit out in the middle of nowhere and there is not much to do.
• Based on the research I’ve done, there is a strict dismissal policy. This may have changed, but I haven’t found any evidence to the contrary. The attrition was a major red flag, however.
• According to some students, there is too much “hand-holding” by the school.
• Strict attendance policy in which you get a certain percentage of your grade docked off for coming tardy or missing class altogether (probably the biggest turn-off because as I mentioned under NoordaCOM, I like putting together my schedule).

ICOM:
*disclaimer* I haven’t researched too much into this school, but I am going to list down whatever I do know so far.

PROS

• Inaugural class recently matched really well.
• Recently applied (and will most likely get) federal funding
• Cadaver lab
• Meridian/ Boise seems to be a nice, urban area with a few things to do.

CONS

• COA seems to be identical to that of Noorda’s
• Mixed reviews from students. Some seem to really like it, others seem to really dislike it
• The furthest of the 3 from home
• Research, while offered at ICOM, doesn’t seem to have as much weight in their curriculum.

I would really appreciate any and all advice!

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[Dantes]

No federal loans would be a dealbreaker for me. In that case ACOM.

 

[Starr_key]

I would go with ACOM b/c established, cheaper tuition and good match rate. I really liked Noorda when I applied, but the tuition w/ no federal loans is a lot. I think once they get accredited and graduate a class, they're going to be a top choice school for people.

I'd avoid ICOM. I've heard some iffy things about them despite their match rate.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

OK, quick caveat. I don't attend any of these schools, so recommendations stem from what I've seen on here and a couple years at an older MD school.

My vote is ACOM, and here's why.

For what it's worth, I don't see a compelling reason for Noorda. Higher CoA and no federal loans puts you in a pretty rough place. PSLF is a great program, and it wouldn't hurt to keep that option open in the future. Scoring "close to the national average" on boards isn't the most reassuring statistic, particularly when you consider how important a solid step 2 score will likely become. Also, being provided with boards prep resources may be a little more common than you'd expect. We get UWorld at my school, and I have a friend whose school provides a lot more. And, from my limited perspective, it seems like the research options at a more-established school would be better than those at a brand new school. If you ever develop an interest in an even moderately-competitive specialty, future you will thank yourself for choosing a school with more research opportunities.

ICOM seems alright, but your pros/cons list for them seems a little more meh, which makes me wonder if you really like them or if you are just trying to be as thorough as possible with your school choice.

ACOM is the most established, least expensive, and I feel like I've heard of some solid research coming out of it? Also, if a school has a strict dismissal policy, then I wouldn't imagine that a little more admin "hand-holding" could be such a bad thing?

 

[drthedude]

What speciality are you looking towards? Will defer to the experts here in hopes it gains some more attention! @chilly_md @Goro @Faha

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

ACOM's dismissal policy has improved for the current first years. now, instead of making you repeat the year if you failed either of the 2 first semester classes, if you got between a 65 to 70 you can remediate over the summer and stay with your class instead of being held back.

i believe as a result the current first years lost like 5 people? so far at least, which is back to the norm before my class.

i do still believe they only give you one chance at remediation though, but i'm far enough from preclinical curriculum that i can't say for sure.


ACOM has plenty of opportunity for research, but the dept is in flux for now w key people leaving so idk how it'll be for yall

 

[sean1020]

I was accepted to ICOM and Noorda and I'm going with Noorda. Your Noorda pros match mine pretty well. Another big one for me was that, unlike ICOM, rotations are guaranteed to all be within a 30 minute drive from the school.

Which private lender did you end up going with?

 

[Goro]

I can't recommend for-profit schools, not brand new ones.

Hence, ACOM is a no-brainer.

 

[chilly_md]

Would second the vote for ACOM. They are known for having good rotation sites as well.

 

[BoneWizard]

ACOM is probably the best on that list. I graduated from ACOM a few years ago but still keep in touch. Their match list isn't really useful since only post-SOAP placements are reported. You might see like 10 general surgery and 5 ortho matches but not the 20 people that failed to match their desired specialty and fell to their backup or had to SOAP into FM, EM or a prelim. About 10-20% of each year's class will have to SOAP or matched their backup. This is pretty consistent with other DO schools though.

ACOM has also lost a little more than half of their preclinical faculty over the past 3 years apparently due to internal politics. You have faculty that now join and leave in less than 6 months. If you plan on relying on 3rd party materials, this doesn't matter too much. Clinical rotations were pretty solid. If you go to Mobile some of the clerkships are listed as preceptor based but there's residents from Univ of South Alabama and the Thomas Hospital IM residency. USA also tends to take about the same number of ACOM grads for residency as they do their own graduates.

The SIM lab was really overblown as a selling point. It's just another learning tool but not helpful for interacting with real patients. The SPs were much more helpful.

Board prep has improved from what I hear. If you meet the COMSAE (mock COMLEX) cutoff of 450 you can skip their mandatory 2 week in person lecture series. So you end up with 4-8 weeks dedicated for Level 1/Step 1. Level 2/Step 2, they now give you 4 weeks of dedicated time starting this year. Which is a massive improvement from the 0 I got.

I think they changed the mandatory attendance policy so instead of 80% it's now 60%. Which means you can have 2-3 days a week where you don't have to go in. Still annoying but better than it was. Dothan is also pretty small as a city. You can live on the far opposite side and be at school in 10 mins.

Research support is minimal and largely student driven. You can absolutely publish case reports/case series if you want. Anything more than that is going to be difficult.

ACOM's dismissal policy has improved for the current first years. now, instead of making you repeat the year if you failed either of the 2 first semester classes

In all fairness, there's only two classes first semester, so failing one would be similar to failing two systems courses. The year that had 30 repeats/drop outs was because they tried changing the course layout during COVID.

 

[chilly_md]

Duplicate threads have been merged.

 

[yatosmato]

I was accepted to ICOM and Noorda and I'm going with Noorda. Your Noorda pros match mine pretty well. Another big one for me was that, unlike ICOM, rotations are guaranteed to all be within a 30 minute drive from the school.

Which private lender did you end up going with?

zuntafi offered me a rate of 5.9%, so if decide to go to noorda, it will likely be with them

 

[yatosmato]

I can't recommend for-profit schools, not brand new ones.

Hence, ACOM is a no-brainer.

Can I ask your reasoning for not liking for-profit schools despite Noorda seemingly making an effort to go above and beyond for their students?

 

[yatosmato]

ACOM is probably the best on that list. I graduated from ACOM a few years ago but still keep in touch. Their match list isn't really useful since only post-SOAP placements are reported. You might see like 10 general surgery and 5 ortho matches but not the 20 people that failed to match their desired specialty and fell to their backup or had to SOAP into FM, EM or a prelim. About 10-20% of each year's class will have to SOAP or matched their backup. This is pretty consistent with other DO schools though.

ACOM has also lost a little more than half of their preclinical faculty over the past 3 years apparently due to internal politics. You have faculty that now join and leave in less than 6 months. If you plan on relying on 3rd party materials, this doesn't matter too much. Clinical rotations were pretty solid. If you go to Mobile some of the clerkships are listed as preceptor based but there's residents from Univ of South Alabama and the Thomas Hospital IM residency. USA also tends to take about the same number of ACOM grads for residency as they do their own graduates.

The SIM lab was really overblown as a selling point. It's just another learning tool but not helpful for interacting with real patients. The SPs were much more helpful.

Board prep has improved from what I hear. If you meet the COMSAE (mock COMLEX) cutoff of 450 you can skip their mandatory 2 week in person lecture series. So you end up with 4-8 weeks dedicated for Level 1/Step 1. Level 2/Step 2, they now give you 4 weeks of dedicated time starting this year. Which is a massive improvement from the 0 I got.

I think they changed the mandatory attendance policy so instead of 80% it's now 60%. Which means you can have 2-3 days a week where you don't have to go in. Still annoying but better than it was. Dothan is also pretty small as a city. You can live on the far opposite side and be at school in 10 mins.

Research support is minimal and largely student driven. You can absolutely publish case reports/case series if you want. Anything more than that is going to be difficult.


In all fairness, there's only two classes first semester, so failing one would be similar to failing two systems courses. The year that had 30 repeats/drop outs was because they tried changing the course layout during COVID.

I actually had a question about ACOM's research- with STEP 1/Level 1 become P/F, wouldn't it mean that other areas of a student's application (i.e. research) hold more weight? And if that is the case, wouldn't attending ACOM, which doesn't really have a robust research institution put students at a disadvantage?

 

[Goro]

Can I ask your reasoning for not liking for-profit schools despite Noorda seemingly making an effort to go above and beyond for their students?

Who do you think is going to be getting a higher priority from a for-profit school...students, or shareholders.

 

[Goro]

What speciality are you looking towards? Will defer to the experts here in hopes it gains some more attention! @chilly_md @Goro @Faha

Brand new DO schools are to be avoided (unless it’s your only accept, and even then I wonder about this) until they at least graduate a class. It takes time for faculty to gel and deliver a coherent curriculum; they have limited clinical rotations sites [it takes time to build these!], the degree of oversight of clinical training will be weak; the schools are unlikely to have resources for struggling students or those with mental health needs; lastly their grads will be unknown products to residency program directors.

And because these schools are new, good applicants avoid them and so the schools are more willing to take the weakest of applicants, who will then fail out and/or fail Boards, giving the schools bad stats right off the bat.

 

[sean1020]

The whole for profit thing is blown out of proportion tbh. RVU is is for profit, has been around for years and has great match lists.

I'd much rather live in Provo or Boise rather than out in the middle of nowhere.

 

[drthedude]

Who do you think is going to be getting a higher priority from a for-profit school...students, or shareholders.

I believe it’s a PRI, so a little different from the natural for profit definition, was reading about it when I got accepted on the IRS site

 

[premedjunky]

Just finished my first year at ACOM so feel free to message me with any questions. To answer some of the previous points:
There isn’t a percentage of classes we’re required to attend. Our lectures are all optional and can be watched via zoom or you can watch the recording on your own time. We do have integrated sessions that are basically reviews for certain lectures that are mandatory. Those could be one or two days a week.
I would agree the dismissal policy is pretty brutal. I’m not sure how many people our class has lost over the first year but it seems to be maybe 10-15. Most of the dismissals occur during the first semester.
I’m not sure what you mean by hand-holding but I’ve never really felt that way.
Dothan honestly isn’t terrible spot. It’s an hour and a half from panama city beach & three hours from atlanta so a lot of us take weekend trips when the opportunity presents.

 

[BoneWizard]

I actually had a question about ACOM's research- with STEP 1/Level 1 become P/F, wouldn't it mean that other areas of a student's application (i.e. research) hold more weight? And if that is the case, wouldn't attending ACOM, which doesn't really have a robust research institution put students at a disadvantage?

Yes but its still Step 2 > everything else. There are very few DO schools with good research programs however. ACOM is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[darkeon]

ACOM all the way. I think one should always choose schools eligible for federal loans over those that aren't unless there are some compelling circumstances.

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

Yes but its still Step 2 > everything else. There are very few DO schools with good research programs however. ACOM is probably somewhere in the middle.

And if you want to do research you def can at ACOM, I'll have several pubs by graduation not counting case reports

 

[tzuyu&yuqi]

No brainer, ACOM all the way, federal > private loans