New grad job-hunting tips

[RadRadTerp]

Hey,

So I've been out in the workforce for the past year as a small animal veterinarian in the greater New York City area and it has been a blast, but I thought I would offer a bit of advice to anyone about to graduate and head out into practice. I was fortunate enough to get several job offers without going into an internship so I was able to start paying my loans back. However, when judging all the offers I got I didn't realize how much I should factor in for a cost of living. In a week, I'm starting a new job at a place that hopefully will be a better fit for me.

Here are some tips:

• If you're going to work in the region of NYC, DC, SF, etc, the starting offer really needs to be at least $10K - $15K over the median starting salary of a small animal vet nationwide. My first year was rough because I thought I got a great offer and then I realized that I could only afford to live in a crappy apartment with multiple roommates and barely pay my bills. On paper my salary looked great, but then I had to cover more of my health costs than I expected and not all of my membership fees were reimbursed because I didn't read my 20-page contract as carefully as I should have.
• Many places like hiring new grads and go looking for them to keep the cost of running a business low. Some of these places hire 2-3 new grads a year and then those new grads leave those jobs after a year, who are then replaced with the next batch of new grads. You should ask questions about veterinarian turnover at any place you're getting offered a job. If the place that wants to hire you regularly loses more than 2-3 vets a year, something is up.
• If you're going to be doing any emergency work, try to get into writing something regarding the hours that you will be scheduled because getting overworked will burn you out. Had I realized that I would be scheduled a full day shifts after working a day shift and then an overnight shift in a row, I would have thought that was crazy! My mind didn't even think that jobs could get away with working a vet for over 24 hours straight and then expecting you to perform surgery. After one shift like that, I refused to perform any surgical procedures because I knew that only having 2 hours of sleep was a liability and I didn't want to risk my license.

There's probably more that I could think of, but that's off the top of my head. Don't get burned like I did and if you do, you deserve better so don't be afraid to look around for other positions.

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[DVMDream]

Hey,

So I've been out in the workforce for the past year as a small animal veterinarian in the greater New York City area and it has been a blast, but I thought I would offer a bit of advice to anyone about to graduate and head out into practice. I was fortunate enough to get several job offers without going into an internship so I was able to start paying my loans back. However, when judging all the offers I got I didn't realize how much I should factor in for a cost of living. In a week, I'm starting a new job at a place that hopefully will be a better fit for me.

Here are some tips:

• If you're going to work in the region of NYC, DC, SF, etc, the starting offer really needs to be at least $10K - $15K over the median starting salary of a small animal vet nationwide. My first year was rough because I thought I got a great offer and then I realized that I could only afford to live in a crappy apartment with multiple roommates and barely pay my bills. On paper my salary looked great, but then I had to cover more of my health costs than I expected and not all of my membership fees were reimbursed because I didn't read my 20-page contract as carefully as I should have.
• Many places like hiring new grads and go looking for them to keep the cost of running a business low. Some of these places hire 2-3 new grads a year and then those new grads leave those jobs after a year, who are then replaced with the next batch of new grads. You should ask questions about veterinarian turnover at any place you're getting offered a job. If the place that wants to hire you regularly loses more than 2-3 vets a year, something is up.
• If you're going to be doing any emergency work, try to get into writing something regarding the hours that you will be scheduled because getting overworked will burn you out. Had I realized that I would be scheduled a full day shifts after working a day shift and then an overnight shift in a row, I would have thought that was crazy! My mind didn't even think that jobs could get away with working a vet for over 24 hours straight and then expecting you to perform surgery. After one shift like that, I refused to perform any surgical procedures because I knew that only having 2 hours of sleep was a liability and I didn't want to risk my license.

There's probably more that I could think of, but that's off the top of my head. Don't get burned like I did and if you do, you deserve better so don't be afraid to look around for other positions.

Thanks for this!

 

[katryn]

Do your homework on things you would like to be reimbursed for outside your salary. I didn't even think about membership dues and DEA license, and ended up spending my entire CE/other stipend on those since they weren't separate. Here's my list:
1. DEA license
2. AVMA membership (my boss will only pay for AVMA PLIT so I have to join AVMA whether I want to or not)
3. State or local VMAs if it suits you
4. Liability insurance
5. Licensing fees
6. Health insurance stipend (if insurance isn't available)
7. VIN membership
8. CE stipend

And I'm sure there's a few other things I'm missing.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Do your homework on things you would like to be reimbursed for outside your salary. I didn't even think about membership dues and DEA license, and ended up spending my entire CE/other stipend on those since they weren't separate.

Yes, you have to think about the total compensation, not just the salary.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Buy your own liability insurance and have your employer reimburse you. Do not rely on anyone to get it/pay it for you.

 

[lei325]

Coming out of an internship, these are all things I need to be reminded of. Especially the whole liability insurance thing; all this stuff was taken care of in my internship contract.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Yes... Get a schedule with max hours per week in writing, esp if you work for a 24 hr facility. I had times where it was normal for doctors to be scheduled for a 20 hr shift!!! With days "off" being the day after an overnight... which clearly isn't really a day off. And being on straight salary, no compensation for extra hours worked.

If working on a production system, make sure it's absolutely clear in writing what is included in your production. Does it include blood panels that get drawn up from YOUR patients if they come during a technician visit? Does it include prescription refills? Does it include all services and products?

 

[Minnerbelle]

Also for pro-sal systems. Make sure you are clear whether or not there is negative accrual. As in, if you don't make production one month to justify your base salary, do you owe it the next month? If you do, as a new grad/employee, when does that kick in? Some places will wipe your slate clean once you're producing regularly above your base salary. Others will say that they won't start negative accrual for the first X months.

 

[Kpowell14]

This is a great thread!!! It's a bit far in the future you me, but I've heard a lot of people talking about negotiating contracts at school the past couple weeks. Do you guys have any advice on the negotiation aspect of your contract?

 

[DVMDream]

This is a great thread!!! It's a bit far in the future you me, but I've heard a lot of people talking about negotiating contracts at school the past couple weeks. Do you guys have any advice on the negotiation aspect of your contract?

We had an entire class devoted to contracts. The first thing we were taught: look for how to get out of the contact. Especially for if SHTF.

Outside of that, I'd have to look back at the 100's of pages of notes we got in that class.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

The first thing we were taught: look for how to get out of the contact.

Not only do you want to know what your responsibilities are should you want to break your contract, know what the clinic is required to do if they want to break the contract (i.e. fire you). The terms should be at least be equitable.

Take any non-compete clauses very seriously, and consider how it might affect your entire family should you need to commute to work outside the proscribed area, or even move to be outside that area.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Coming out of an internship, these are all things I need to be reminded of. Especially the whole liability insurance thing; all this stuff was taken care of in my internship contract.

Yup... Just once you're out, I personally would not trust anyone with your malpractice insurance even if it's in your contract. It was in my contract, and my employer never paid my premiums so I was never covered. I know other people who got screwed by that as well.

My personal opinion about that is even if you work for a corporation that provides malpractice insurance, it's so cheap, I would get one yourself on top of that for peace of mind. Of course if you still work for them, they will bat for you. I'm not sure I trust anyone to be on my side if I get sued for a case after I'm no longer employed there.

Also make sure that you have board defense on top of just malpractice insurance.

 

[Minnerbelle]

The other thing I pay for out of pocket for double coverage despite being covered by my employer is long term disability insurance. It's pretty expensive in the tune of $100/month, but I do it anyway.

Why? Because you can be denied coverage based on your medical history. I qualified as a healthy woman in my late 20's... but who knows if I'll qualify 5-10 years down the road. And rates get locked in based on when you join. So that $100/month skyrockets as I get older. Plus there's like a 1.5-2 year waiting period for conditions that won't be covered. It's fine and dandy if you work your entire career with one employer and your employer never stops providing the policy. But you could be screwed if either of those falls through. With my policy, it is absolutely not cancellable as long as I continue to pay my premium.

If getting long term disability insurance, one thing to make sure you get is an "own occupation/own profession" rider, and make sure you understand exactly what that policy covers. If you don't have that at all, they won't pay even if you can't work as a vet anymore... If you're capable of holding a desk job or being a walmart greeter. This part is what makes my monthly premium so expensive. I also have a cost of living increase/inflation rider on there so that if I get disabled young, the disbursements go up as those also go up.

 

[cowgirla]

The other thing I pay for out of pocket for double coverage despite being covered by my employer is long term disability insurance. It's pretty expensive in the tune of $100/month, but I do it anyway.

Why? Because you can be denied coverage based on your medical history. I qualified as a healthy woman in my late 20's... but who knows if I'll qualify 5-10 years down the road. And rates get locked in based on when you join. So that $100/month skyrockets as I get older. Plus there's like a 1.5-2 year waiting period for conditions that won't be covered. It's fine and dandy if you work your entire career with one employer and your employer never stops providing the policy. But you could be screwed if either of those falls through. With my policy, it is absolutely not cancellable as long as I continue to pay my premium.

If getting long term disability insurance, one thing to make sure you get is an "own occupation/own profession" rider, and make sure you understand exactly what that policy covers. If you don't have that at all, they won't pay even if you can't work as a vet anymore... If you're capable of holding a desk job or being a walmart greeter. This part is what makes my monthly premium so expensive. I also have a cost of living increase/inflation rider on there so that if I get disabled young, the disbursements go up as those also go up.

Can I ask what company you use? I've been insurance shopping and am overwhelmed by options. You can PM me

 

[Minnerbelle]

Can I ask what company you use? I've been insurance shopping and am overwhelmed by options. You can PM me

It's through principal financial group. I need to increase my coverage because my income's gone up significantly since when I graduated. I'll let you know what that does to my premium.

What I like about my policy is that it kicks in I believe at 3 months of disability rather than at 6 months like the AVMA policy. So instead of paying for the ridiculously high premiums for short term disability, I just keep enough savings in case I need to be out for <3 months.

 

[dyachei]

I'm going to second everything said about disability insurance. But I would recommend long and short term - some employers will cover this. Having been in a car accident, my short term disability was indispensable. My short term disability was 3 months. But I had to keep going back to work between surgeries as a result of this accident and long term wouldn't have been as valuable.

The only reason I'm still a member of the AVMA is because of PLIT.

CowgirlA - I use colonial Penn for my insurances (accident and disability) and the rates are pretty reasonable - they are age dependent and lock in once you decide to go with them.

I'd also make sure to ask about CE and what that covers. Some places won't cover travel but will pay for the CE, others will offer a lump sum. And vacation time - make sure you understand if this is separate from time off for CE. You do need *some* time off.

 

[cowgirla]

I'm an AVMA member because work pays for PLIT but I was hoping to stay away from them for disability. Thanks for tips!

Other things to think about: phone if you will be on call, vehicle if you travel from place to place. HSA, uniforms, pet food/pet care. Dental or vision if you can talk them into that as well.

Agree on separate vacation and CE time. Also find out what happens to time you don't use- lose it, roll over, cash out, etc. look for qualifications on when you can take vacation or how many days at a time.

 

[Kpowell14]

Awesome awesome stuff guys!!!

 

[deleted498041]

Other things to think about: phone if you will be on call, vehicle if you travel from place to place. HSA, uniforms, pet food/pet care. Dental or vision if you can talk them into that as well.

Can you elaborate on this? The place I want to eventually get hired at has at least one specialist on call per department a night. I should ask them to pick up part of my phone bill?

 

[cowgirla]

My employer has a group plan and DVM phones are part of that, included as a benefit. Granted, we probably do more on call/large animal work than many places, but it's awesome being able to look things up, log into clinic computers, access apps, and not have to worry about using up all the data. Saves me a good chunk of change each month.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Can you elaborate on this? The place I want to eventually get hired at has at least one specialist on call per department a night. I should ask them to pick up part of my phone bill?

So many plans these days have huge (or unlimited) calls and data, making a call to a specialist or the answering service really isn't a big deal. However, if the clinic doesn't use an answering service when on call, you should have a work phone so no one gets your personal phone number. My phone plan has unlimited calls and texts, so having the answering service call my personal phone doesn't worry me.

 

[deleted498041]

So many plans these days have huge (or unlimited) calls and data, making a call to a specialist or the answering service really isn't a big deal. However, if the clinic doesn't use an answering service when on call, you should have a work phone so no one gets your personal phone number. My phone plan has unlimited calls and texts, so having the answering service call my personal phone doesn't worry me.

Oh gotcha. Their policy is to have an intern present overnight and the intern is the one in charge of calling the specialist. Would you recommend having a dedicated work phone for that purpose? I've always been find with coworkers having my personal number.

 

[lailanni]

Lookout for a noncompete - stipulations that you won't be able to work within X miles of the clinic for X years if you quit. They can really hamper your opportunities if the clinic is a poor match but you want to stay in the area. Or it could mean you might be barred from taking shifts at other hospitals or working at an ER to make some extra cash.

I second the CE time off being separate from vacation time. Who wants to spend vacation in lecture? We've had enough of that!

And look for how much vacation you can use at a time. Only taking 2-3 days off in a row max isn't going to let you take a long road trip or visit places further out.

Also don't assume that your employer (charming as they may be at first) is looking out for your best interest. I know people who have gotten into some less than ideal situations in their first job (understatement). Go through your paperwork with a fine comb and make sure you can easily exit if SHTH, as someone mentioned above.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Oh gotcha. Their policy is to have an intern present overnight and the intern is the one in charge of calling the specialist. Would you recommend having a dedicated work phone for that purpose? I've always been find with coworkers having my personal number.

I'm fine with coworkers having my phone number; in fact, I want them to have it (and so far no one has ever abused it). I make it freely available to staff and other vets, so long as no one gives it to clients.

 

[dyachei]

Lookout for a noncompete - stipulations that you won't be able to work within X miles of the clinic for X years if you quit.

I will say that often times these are not legal. However, you don't want to find yourself in a legal battle if you can avoid it.

 

[lailanni]

I will say that often times these are not legal. However, you don't want to find yourself in a legal battle if you can avoid it.

That's good news. I have a friend who signed a contract with a non-compete of 40 miles for 3 years (she's in a rural area). Now she'd like to quit and open her own practice about 30 miles away but she's worried about the non-compete. I'm not on VIN currently - do you have any info that could help her out? From what I've googled 40 miles is total overkill.

I've been encouraging her to seek legal counsel for her own peace of mind so she can get started on the process. Her boss is rather a jerk, so I suspect her quitting and setting up shop would be met with a fair amount of hostility.

 

[DVMDream]

That's good news. I have a friend who signed a contract with a non-compete of 40 miles for 3 years (she's in a rural area). Now she'd like to quit and open her own practice about 30 miles away but she's worried about the non-compete. I'm not on VIN currently - do you have any info that could help her out? From what I've googled 40 miles is total overkill.

I've been encouraging her to seek legal counsel for her own peace of mind so she can get started on the process. Her boss is rather a jerk, so I suspect her quitting and setting up shop would be met with a fair amount of hostility.

http://www.pvmc.net/team/wilson.html

Perhaps he can help? He specializes in veterinary job contracts and is both a vet and a lawyer.

 

[dyachei]

That's good news. I have a friend who signed a contract with a non-compete of 40 miles for 3 years (she's in a rural area). Now she'd like to quit and open her own practice about 30 miles away but she's worried about the non-compete. I'm not on VIN currently - do you have any info that could help her out? From what I've googled 40 miles is total overkill.

I've been encouraging her to seek legal counsel for her own peace of mind so she can get started on the process. Her boss is rather a jerk, so I suspect her quitting and setting up shop would be met with a fair amount of hostility.

she needs to seek legal counsel, but 30 miles would likely be deemed unreasonable. If it would force her to have to move in order to work, its likely unreasonable.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I will say that often times these are not legal. However, you don't want to find yourself in a legal battle if you can avoid it.

You should also never sign something that you don't intend to honour, IMO.....if you sign something you should have every intention of following through. Sure, things change in life and **** happens, but your intentions when you sign it should be ethical ones. Don't sign it if you don't agree to it.

 

[dyachei]

You should also never sign something that you don't intend to honour, IMO.....if you sign something you should have every intention of following through. Sure, things change in life and **** happens, but your intentions when you sign it should be ethical ones. Don't sign it if you don't agree to it.

True, but...You don't necessarily know exactly what that entails until you're in the midst of being in a really bad situation.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

True, but...You don't necessarily know exactly what that entails until you're in the midst of being in a really bad situation.

No, you should know what it entails before you sign it, and if you don't know, you should find out from a lawyer before you sign it.

I'm not saying there won't be circumstances where you will want to break your contract, I'm saying you should sign it with the intention of honouring it. In other words, don't sign a contract with a non-compete you are planning to ignore (or any other clause you are thinking in advance that you will fight/ignore/break). Don't say to yourself "I know this contract contains a clause that won't be held up in court later, so I'll go ahead and sign it even though I know I will be breaking these terms later." Sign it with sincerity and plans to live up to your end of the bargain.

 

[DVMDream]

No, you should know what it entails before you sign it, and if you don't know, you should find out from a lawyer before you sign it.

.

Many new grads can barely afford to move to their new job location. Contacting a lawyer for every job they are offered to go over contracts would be way out of budget for most. I am lucky in that I have a family member who is a lawyer and would be able to know enough to give me advice, but many people aren't that lucky. Also, negotiating power over different things isn't as great for current applicants. Employers definitely have the upper hand when they have 7-8 or more applicants for one position. So, even if you know a certain non-compete clause is absurd and you bring it up, the employer might just pass you up and move on to the next person because they don't want to negotiate. So it really is a balance of do I want to lose this opportunity? Can I find someone else who is more reasonable? I think many new grads are getting sucked into needing to sign something because they need a job so they are getting some rather crappy deals. Some are probably because they chose not to pay attention, but others are probably people who just needed something so they could start working and paying on loans.

I am not suggesting signing something with the intent of breaking it. However, I don't think it is near as black and white as you are seeing it.

 

[lailanni]

Many new grads can barely afford to move to their new job location. Contacting a lawyer for every job they are offered to go over contracts would be way out of budget for most. I am lucky in that I have a family member who is a lawyer and would be able to know enough to give me advice, but many people aren't that lucky. Also, negotiating power over different things isn't as great for current applicants. Employers definitely have the upper hand when they have 7-8 or more applicants for one position. So, even if you know a certain non-compete clause is absurd and you bring it up, the employer might just pass you up and move on to the next person because they don't want to negotiate. So it really is a balance of do I want to lose this opportunity? Can I find someone else who is more reasonable? I think many new grads are getting sucked into needing to sign something because they need a job so they are getting some rather crappy deals. Some are probably because they chose not to pay attention, but others are probably people who just needed something so they could start working and paying on loans.

I am not suggesting signing something with the intent of breaking it. However, I don't think it is near as black and white as you are seeing it.

Yup, this job was the only one my friend was offered out of school so she took it without pushing on the contact. Back when we graduated neither of us wanted to own a clinic but now a few years out she thinks it may be a good path for her. The non-compete wasn't an issue then but as her experience and horizons grew, it's gotten to be more relevant.

 

[DVMDream]

Yup, this job was the only one my friend was offered out of school so she took it without pushing on the contact. Back when we graduated neither of us wanted to own a clinic but now a few years out she thinks it may be a good path for her. The non-compete wasn't an issue then but as her experience and horizons grew, it's gotten to be more relevant.

I was talking to a recently graduated vet about a year before I started vet school, so back in 2011. She said many of her classmates were having a very difficult time finding jobs and they were already 6 months out from graduation. Some of them were having a hard time due to being very area selective, but others were willing to go anywhere and still couldn't find anything. So, 6 months out of graduation, if you are suddenly offered a job, you are going to take it and not be so worried about that non-compete clause because it is the least of your concerns at that point.

Hope your friend can get some help. Based on what we were taught by the person I posted in the above link, it is unlikely that non-complete clause will hold. It is too wide of an area. Granted large animal areas can be bigger than small animal ones, it still seems too big to me.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Many new grads can barely afford to move to their new job location. Contacting a lawyer for every job they are offered to go over contracts would be way out of budget for most. I am lucky in that I have a family member who is a lawyer and would be able to know enough to give me advice, but many people aren't that lucky. Also, negotiating power over different things isn't as great for current applicants. Employers definitely have the upper hand when they have 7-8 or more applicants for one position. So, even if you know a certain non-compete clause is absurd and you bring it up, the employer might just pass you up and move on to the next person because they don't want to negotiate. So it really is a balance of do I want to lose this opportunity? Can I find someone else who is more reasonable? I think many new grads are getting sucked into needing to sign something because they need a job so they are getting some rather crappy deals. Some are probably because they chose not to pay attention, but others are probably people who just needed something so they could start working and paying on loans.

I am not suggesting signing something with the intent of breaking it. However, I don't think it is near as black and white as you are seeing it.

The only thing that's black and white in my mind is whether or not you sign something with the intention of not honouring it. That's all I've been saying from the start.......if you want to be an ethical vet, you have to start out ethically too, and that means having the best intentions when you sign a contract (i.e. to honour that contract).

Yes, people do things out of fear of losing their job (or not getting that job), but they still have to accept the decision they made and the consequences it will hold. To me, accepting the consequences of your decisions (even decisions made with imperfect information) is part of being a decent adult and showing some moral character. Yes, there are a lot of crappy deals (and crappy bosses) out there. We've all had them, at one point or another, in our lives. It varies with supply and demand, and with the general state of the economy.

 

[dyachei]

Another thing for all new grads - don't expect your first job to be all that long term. It may be (that would be the exception to the rule), but for the most part, the first job isn't kept for more than 4 years.

 

[DVMDream]

The only thing that's black and white in my mind is whether or not you sign something with the intention of not honouring it. That's all I've been saying from the start.......if you want to be an ethical vet, you have to start out ethically too, and that means having the best intentions when you sign a contract (i.e. to honour that contract).

Yes, people do things out of fear of losing their job (or not getting that job), but they still have to accept the decision they made and the consequences it will hold. To me, accepting the consequences of your decisions (even decisions made with imperfect information) is part of being a decent adult and showing some moral character. Yes, there are a lot of crappy deals (and crappy bosses) out there. We've all had them, at one point or another, in our lives. It varies with supply and demand, and with the general state of the economy.

I don't think there are many people signing things without the intention of honoring the terms.

I think what happens is that people see a ridiculous non compete clause and then think it doesn't matter because they don't plan on leaving or maybe they do but to much further away. Then things change.

Regardless of the employees intention from the start, they shouldn't be forced to honor an illegal non compete clause. Just because you shouldn't sign something if you don't plan on honoring it, doesn't mean you shouldn't seek advice when you think something is illegal.

Just like an employee shouldn't ethically sign if they don't intend to commit, which I don't think is that often; an employer should ethically be sure their contract is completely legal. The ethics of the situation goes both ways here. And the employee has just as much right to seek legal council if the employer isn't following laws. Just like the employer has the right to sue if the employee doesn't adhere to the non compete clause.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Another thing for all new grads - don't expect your first job to be all that long term. It may be (that would be the exception to the rule), but for the most part, the first job isn't kept for more than 4 years.

Honestly, that's even longer than I would have thought! If someone asked me, I would have guessed the average was closer to 18-24 months. Vetlife, the UK website for members of the profession to access help and advice (primarily emotional, debt, and abuse issues) says that in the UK, most first jobs for new grads last less than a year. I wonder if there's any data about the situation in North America?

 

[dyachei]

Honestly, that's even longer than I would have thought! If someone asked me, I would have guessed the average was closer to 18-24 months. Vetlife, the UK website for members of the profession to access help and advice (primarily emotional, debt, and abuse issues) says that in the UK, most first jobs for new grads last less than a year. I wonder if there's any data about the situation in North America?

I think most of the time it is for 1-3 years. There is data through the AVMA

 

[bbeventer]

This is a great thread guys! So many things to think about!

 

[cowgirla]

I think most of the time it is for 1-3 years. There is data through the AVMA

I'd heard somewhere (may have been a vet school job hunting talk) that 30% of new grads leave their job BEFORE the first year ends . Another 30% leave at the end of year one, almost 30% leave around year 3. So less than 10% stay at their first job for more than 3 years.

i remember thinking that was crazy high. I still adore my job but statistics are scary.

 

[irishkat]

Hey,

So I've been out in the workforce for the past year as a small animal veterinarian in the greater New York City area and it has been a blast, but I thought I would offer a bit of advice to anyone about to graduate and head out into practice. I was fortunate enough to get several job offers without going into an internship so I was able to start paying my loans back. However, when judging all the offers I got I didn't realize how much I should factor in for a cost of living. In a week, I'm starting a new job at a place that hopefully will be a better fit for me.

Here are some tips:

• If you're going to work in the region of NYC, DC, SF, etc, the starting offer really needs to be at least $10K - $15K over the median starting salary of a small animal vet nationwide. My first year was rough because I thought I got a great offer and then I realized that I could only afford to live in a crappy apartment with multiple roommates and barely pay my bills. On paper my salary looked great, but then I had to cover more of my health costs than I expected and not all of my membership fees were reimbursed because I didn't read my 20-page contract as carefully as I should have.
• Many places like hiring new grads and go looking for them to keep the cost of running a business low. Some of these places hire 2-3 new grads a year and then those new grads leave those jobs after a year, who are then replaced with the next batch of new grads. You should ask questions about veterinarian turnover at any place you're getting offered a job. If the place that wants to hire you regularly loses more than 2-3 vets a year, something is up.
• If you're going to be doing any emergency work, try to get into writing something regarding the hours that you will be scheduled because getting overworked will burn you out. Had I realized that I would be scheduled a full day shifts after working a day shift and then an overnight shift in a row, I would have thought that was crazy! My mind didn't even think that jobs could get away with working a vet for over 24 hours straight and then expecting you to perform surgery. After one shift like that, I refused to perform any surgical procedures because I knew that only having 2 hours of sleep was a liability and I didn't want to risk my license.

There's probably more that I could think of, but that's off the top of my head. Don't get burned like I did and if you do, you deserve better so don't be afraid to look around for other positions.

Also, if possible, try to talk to vets who previously worked there and see what they have to say about the clinic, management, etc.... talking with currently employed vets may help but they may not be able to give you the whole picture due to job stability.

 

[MassDVMMPH]

Another thing for all new grads - don't expect your first job to be all that long term. It may be (that would be the exception to the rule), but for the most part, the first job isn't kept for more than 4 years.

That's for sure. Most vets I know left their first jobs after only one year - and most of them only stayed that long because they thought that it would look bad to future employers if they left sooner than that.

 

[iamapm]

That's for sure. Most vets I know left their first jobs after only one year - and most of them only stayed that long because they thought that it would look bad to future employers if they left sooner than that.

As an employer, anyone who job hops (stays less than a year) is:
either is a very difficult employee with unrealistic expectations (probably never really had any jobs before getting out of school)
Crazy
Or sadly picked poor employers

Any prospective employer should be willing to let a prospective employee speak privately with any vet on staff as part of the interview process either in person or on the phone.
A working (unpaid) interview is always a good idea, as you will get a sense of the culture of the place.

 

[Minnerbelle]

As an employer, anyone who job hops (stays less than a year) is:
either is a very difficult employee with unrealistic expectations (probably never really had any jobs before getting out of school)
Crazy
Or sadly picked poor employers

Any prospective employer should be willing to let a prospective employee speak privately with any vet on staff as part of the interview process either in person or on the phone.
A working (unpaid) interview is always a good idea, as you will get a sense of the culture of the place.

This is a very funny post. I laughed for a good five minutes.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

A working (unpaid) interview is always a good idea, as you will get a sense of the culture of the place.

A working (unpaid) interview is also probably illegal.


A large proportion of new grads leave their first job after a year, and I'm pretty sure most of them are neither crazy nor difficult to get along with. A bad choice? Yup, because finding a good fit is a difficult thing, and because a lot of jobs with high turnover (i.e. new grad mills) are always hiring. It's difficult to shop for something you've never bought before (in this case, a veterinary job).

You make it sound like it's always the new grad's fault, when just as often, it's the employer's fault.

 

[racccjlm]

I'd add that you should inquire about technical staff. I had part of a year working busy emergency with no techs. Can't underline that stupidity enough. Make sure you've got support.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I'd add that you should inquire about technical staff. I had part of a year working busy emergency with no techs. Can't underline that stupidity enough. Make sure you've got support.

Who thinks of these things? Geesh

 

[WildZoo]

A working (unpaid) interview is also probably illegal.

Wait, really? Maybe it's different for vet jobs but I have done working interviews for tech jobs...

 

[Minnerbelle]

Wait, really? Maybe it's different for vet jobs but I have done working interviews for tech jobs...

The fact that it's illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen.