[Neuro] Help Direct Me

[Tvcker]

Hello everyone! I guess I will start off with giving a little background information on myself. My name is Tucker, and I am 18 years old. I graduated high school in 2012 from third in my class with a 3.9 GPA. Since then I attended Southern Polytechnic State University for 1 semester going to study Software. I started to lose interest in the program about 2 months into it, and decided that After the semester was over I would transfer to a local school for pre-med. I have always been fascinated with the body and how it works, and i have decided that I really want to be either a neurosurgeon or a neurologist (not sure what area I want to specialize in yet).

We have just recently found that my father has a brain tumor about the size of a golf ball on his left frontal lobe. He has had two grand mal seizures in the past 2 weeks and he goes to have a biopsy this Thursday. This is motivating me more than ever to become either a neurosurgeon or neurologist.

I am the only person in my family to ever attend college, so this is the only help I am getting from anyone right now. I just have a few questions that I would like to ask someone who can actually help me, and who has been through the pre-med programs and can help point me in the direction that I need to go.

Questions

1. Does anyone know if there is a way to have these grades removed? I will even take the classes again just to be able to fix my current GPA. Im worried that my financial aid will no longer help me once they see my current failures.

2. Does the pre-med program that I attend have an effect on where I can go to med school?

3. I have no idea how any of this works. So if anyone has any suggestions of anything I should look into please let me know. I am open to any advice, because like I said this will be the only place that I can get it. I am the only person in my family that knows anything about college


I am a very motivated student that just needs a little help with the path that I should take. So any and all feedback is HIGHLY appreciated! I look forward to chatting with you guys and hope to talk to you soon! Thank you!

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[CMoodie91]

Questions

1. Does anyone know if there is a way to have these grades removed? I will even take the classes again just to be able to fix my current GPA. Im worried that my financial aid will no longer help me once they see my current failures.

2. Does the pre-med program that I attend have an effect on where I can go to med school?

3. I have no idea how any of this works. So if anyone has any suggestions of anything I should look into please let me know. I am open to any advice, because like I said this will be the only place that I can get it. I am the only person in my family that knows anything about college

1. I am not sure, I have never gone through that process so I can't help you there.

2. No. Your undergrad doesn't affect your Medical School application, your MCAT and GPA will. Also..how busy you are will also affect your application (how many hours you volunteer a week/ work a week/ hobbies a week/ &c). You want to keep busy and make sure that you take all the pre-req's for the medical schools you apply to, other than that..just try to keep motivated to obtain a high GPA and try to build not only your resume but yourself.

3. This probably isn't the best site for advice on this, because although the sites name is "student-doctor" ..it is primarily Pre-meds that encompass this site. You would be better off looking at a site like "premed101" which has many medical students and doctors buzzing around.

Also, don't be too hasty on picking a speciality before you get associated with the different specialities. There are TONS of different specialties that you will be exposed too later on. There is nothing wrong with having a solid interest in certain pathways, but don't assume that you are going to become a NeuroSurgeon in 10 years because you think you like Neuro right now.

Keep your head up, work hard..anything can be obtained.

 

[nysegop]

Hello everyone! I guess I will start off with giving a little background information on myself. My name is Tucker Green, I am 18 years old, and I live in Dalton Georgia. I graduated high school in 2012 from Coahulla Creek High third in my class with a 3.9 GPA. Since then I attended Southern Polytechnic State University in Marietta GA for 1 semester going to study Software. I started to lose interest in the program about 2 months into it, and decided that After the semester was over I would transfer to a local school for pre-med. I have always been fascinated with the body and how it works, and i have decided that I really want to be either a neurosurgeon or a neurologist (not sure what area I want to specialize in yet). About half way through the semester I had to leave the university due to some health concerns with my father. This resulted in the failure of all of the classes that I was taking at the time. I was making excellent grades and the failures were NOT due to laziness or lack of motivation. The professors would not let me take the final exams at home or anything like that so I had no choice but to fail the classes.

We have just recently found that my father has a brain tumor about the size of a golf ball on his left frontal lobe. He has had two grand mal seizures in the past 2 weeks and he goes to have a biopsy this Thursday. This is motivating me more than ever to become either a neurosurgeon or neurologist.

I am the only person in my family to ever attend college, so this is the only help I am getting from anyone right now. I just have a few questions that I would like to ask someone who can actually help me, and who has been through the pre-med programs and can help point me in the direction that I need to go.

Questions

1. Does anyone know if there is a way to have these grades removed? I will even take the classes again just to be able to fix my current GPA. Im worried that my financial aid will no longer help me once they see my current failures.

2. Does the pre-med program that I attend have an effect on where I can go to med school?

3. I have no idea how any of this works. So if anyone has any suggestions of anything I should look into please let me know. I am open to any advice, because like I said this will be the only place that I can get it. I am the only person in my family that knows anything about college


I am a very motivated student that just needs a little help with the path that I should take. You can contact me on skype @ Tucker.Green10 or email me @ [email protected]. So any and all feedback is HIGHLY appreciated! I look forward to chatting with you guys and hope to talk to you soon! Thank you!

Suggestion: Don't put your contact information on the forum. Get people to PM (private message) you for the information. Spammers search threads for emails.

1. Dunno
2. Nobody cares where you go to undergraduate school. Just make sure you can afford it!
3. Basically here is the rough sketch of what the path for a neurosurgeon looks like after HS:

-4 years undergrad ($26,000 in debt)
-4 years of medical school (Generally about $180,000 in debt. Can be more. Ben Bernanke's son had $400,000 in medical school debt)
-7 years of residency (You get paid, but it's not much more than minimum wage)
-1-3 of a fellowship (This part is optional, but it's really good if you want to go into academic medicine and it can increase your salary potential. Again, like residency, you're not making that much)


There several standardized tests you will need to take:
MCAT (An extensive test that helps determine your eligibility for medical school admissions. It stands for medical college admissions test)
USMLE Step 1
USMLE Step 2 CK
USMLE Step 2 CS
USMLE Step 3
Shelf Exams (Standardized tests for each specialty taken during medical school. There are about 20 total if I remember correctly)
Yearly In-Service Exams throughout your career


You can major in whatever you want during undergraduate school. To be a competitive applicant you should have at least a college GPA of 3.8 and an MCAT score of 35+. You should also do research in a laboratory environment (2 years or more is good). In addition, you will need some sort of clinical exposure and volunteer experience (500+ hours, some applicants have well over 1000)

 

[Tvcker]

1. I am not sure, I have never gone through that process so I can't help you there.

2. No. Your undergrad doesn't affect your Medical School application, your MCAT and GPA will. Also..how busy you are will also affect your application (how many hours you volunteer a week/ work a week/ hobbies a week/ &c). You want to keep busy and make sure that you take all the pre-req's for the medical schools you apply to, other than that..just try to keep motivated to obtain a high GPA and try to build not only your resume but yourself.

3. This probably isn't the best site for advice on this, because although the sites name is "student-doctor" ..it is primarily Pre-meds that encompass this site. You would be better off looking at a site like "premed101" which has many medical students and doctors buzzing around.

Also, don't be too hasty on picking a speciality before you get associated with the different specialities. There are TONS of different specialties that you will be exposed too later on. There is nothing wrong with having a solid interest in certain pathways, but don't assume that you are going to become a NeuroSurgeon in 10 years because you think you like Neuro right now.

Keep your head up, work hard..anything can be obtained.

Thank you for all of your advice! Ad as far as picking a specialty, do I need to know what i want to specialize in before applying for med school?

also thanks for the "premed101" Tip, I will definitely check that out.

Suggestion: Don't put your contact information on the forum. Get people to PM (private message) you for the information. Spammers search threads for emails.

1. Dunno
2. Nobody cares where you go to undergraduate school. Just make sure you can afford it!
3. Basically here is the rough sketch of what the path for a neurosurgeon looks like after HS:

-4 years undergrad ($26,000 in debt)
-4 years of medical school (Generally about $180,000 in debt. Can be more. Ben Bernanke's son had $400,000 in medical school debt)
-7 years of residency (You get paid, but it's not much more than minimum wage)
-1-3 of a fellowship (This part is optional, but it's really good if you want to go into academic medicine and it can increase your salary potential. Again, like residency, you're not making that much)


There several standardized tests you will need to take:
MCAT (An extensive test that helps determine your eligibility for medical school admissions. It stands for medical college admissions test)
USMLE Step 1
USMLE Step 2 CK
USMLE Step 2 CS
USMLE Step 3
Shelf Exams (Standardized tests for each specialty taken during medical school. There are about 20 total if I remember correctly)
Yearly In-Service Exams throughout your career


You can major in whatever you want during undergraduate school. To be a competitive applicant you should have at least a college GPA of 3.8 and an MCAT score of 35+. You should also do research in a laboratory environment (2 years or more is good). In addition, you will need some sort of clinical exposure and volunteer experience (500+ hours, some applicants have well over 1000)

Thanks for the list. I have been wondering about the tests and such. I will definitely look into them.

As far as clinical exposure, are you talking about something along the lines of shadowing doctors? I wasn't really sure what you meant there.

And also thanks for being real with me.

 

[Eiot]

You don't need to have at least a college GPA of 3.8 and an MCAT score of 35+ to be considered "competitive." Anything over a 3.5 GPA and 30 MCAT will provide you with a plethora of options both MD and DO.

As far as your grades go, they will never be erased. However, DO schools accept grade replacement. So if you retake every class you failed, they will replace the F with the most recent grade. MD schools will average the two classes (F + A)/2 = C.

Performing poorly during the first year of college is more common than you think. Admissions don't care so much about how well you did every year, but instead about whether you learned from your mistakes and recovered to success. In essence, build a strong upward trend and you will be fine.

Sorry to hear about your father.

 

[CMoodie91]

Thank you for all of your advice! Ad as far as picking a specialty, do I need to know what i want to specialize in before applying for med school?

No, that will be later in your schooling.

You don't need to have at least a college GPA of 3.8 and an MCAT score of 35+ to be considered "competitive." Anything over a 3.5 GPA and 30 MCAT will provide you with a plethora of options both MD and DO.

As far as your grades go, they will never be erased. However, DO schools accept grade replacement. So if you retake every class you failed, they will replace the F with the most recent grade. MD schools will average the two classes (F + A)/2 = C.

Performing poorly during the first year of college is more common than you think. Admissions don't care so much about how well you did every year, but instead about whether you learned from your mistakes and recovered to success. In essence, build a strong upward trend and you will be fine.

Sorry to hear about your father.

Good post. You want to make sure you keep your GPA high and try to get as high as possible on MCAT. Anything over 30 is competitive but try to get as high as possible on the test.

Also, like I said earlier. Make sure you have volunteer experience in a clinical setting that will tell them that a) you know what you're doing and b) you have experience doing it and you like it.

Remember, not all Medical Schools just want the brainiac with the crazy high marks (sure he/she will probably get in) but remember that Medical Schools look for a PERSONALITY that fits a Doctor. If you're not familiar with what characteristics that encompasses, that might be your first step.

 

[nysegop]

You don't need to have at least a college GPA of 3.8 and an MCAT score of 35+ to be considered "competitive." Anything over a 3.5 GPA and 30 MCAT will provide you with a plethora of options both MD and DO.

As far as your grades go, they will never be erased. However, DO schools accept grade replacement. So if you retake every class you failed, they will replace the F with the most recent grade. MD schools will average the two classes (F + A)/2 = C.

Performing poorly during the first year of college is more common than you think. Admissions don't care so much about how well you did every year, but instead about whether you learned from your mistakes and recovered to success. In essence, build a strong upward trend and you will be fine.

Sorry to hear about your father.

I said to be competitive, not to have "options". 3.5 and 30 MCAT is what I would call the recommended minimum.

 

[Tvcker]

You don't need to have at least a college GPA of 3.8 and an MCAT score of 35+ to be considered "competitive." Anything over a 3.5 GPA and 30 MCAT will provide you with a plethora of options both MD and DO.

As far as your grades go, they will never be erased. However, DO schools accept grade replacement. So if you retake every class you failed, they will replace the F with the most recent grade. MD schools will average the two classes (F + A)/2 = C.

Performing poorly during the first year of college is more common than you think. Admissions don't care so much about how well you did every year, but instead about whether you learned from your mistakes and recovered to success. In essence, build a strong upward trend and you will be fine.

Sorry to hear about your father.

I am so glad to hear this. I have been worried sick every since I had to leave SPSU. Thank you! Also, I know that Pre- med will take aprox. 4 years, so do you think that that 3.5 is still achievable? I have no problems making straight A's, as i said before i had great grades at SPSU, it was just the fact that I could not finish that crippled my GPA.

No, that will be later in your schooling.




Good post. You want to make sure you keep your GPA high and try to get as high as possible on MCAT. Anything over 30 is competitive but try to get as high as possible on the test.

Also, like I said earlier. Make sure you have volunteer experience in a clinical setting that will tell them that a) you know what you're doing and b) you have experience doing it and you like it.

So would a good place to seek volunteer work be the local hospital, or do you think it would be better to look towards a private practice?

Remember, not all Medical Schools just want the brainiac with the crazy high marks (sure he/she will probably get in) but remember that Medical Schools look for a PERSONALITY that fits a Doctor. If you're not familiar with what characteristics that encompasses, that might be your first step.

Well everyone tells me that I would make a great doctor because I can keep calm and focus when need be. But I am guessing that I will find what it really takes in the Volunteer work.

 

[ChuckSlayer]

Let me give you a little advice from a junior at a state university.

1. Pick what major YOU feel most comfortable in. If Biology/Chemistry etc isn't in your blood then pick something that you are interested in, even if it is in English, Psychology, Engineering, etc and work towards that. You can then take your pre-reqs that you need for Med school and for the MCATs.

2. Don't be discouraged because you slipped up a little bit the first semester or so. A lot of schools won't mind seeing a slip up early on in a students college career as long as they continually have an upward trend of grades and their GPA is consistently going up and not dropping. Also, you can retake your courses. I believe that DO schools replace grades while MD average them together. Once again, show your upward trend of scoring better.

3. Don't overload yourself with courses especially if you are coming off of a less than stellar semester. When I got back into school two and a half years ago after being out of school for two years my advisor set me up with 14 credits which included four classes and two labs. Even that was a little rough to get into but now I am taking 16-18 credits a semester and doing great.

4. While grades are super important, don't pressure yourself TOO much on that and neglect everything else that is required to make you a strong applicant.

5. Take a deep breath and just relax. Everything will be fine and your hard work will pay off. I am 26 as of Friday and I doubted myself since I left high school. I regained my confidence when I finished Nursing school and got out into the field and grew a deep interest in pursuing being a Physician. You have to take the hand your dealt and push through.


I hope my words are taken to heart and you will gain some perspective and motivation from what I have said. I am far far far from knowing everything about the admission process of med schools and mostly got my information from my pre-professional advisor, but with hard work you can do anything. At the age of 18 you will find what fits you, but don't sweat the small stuff at this stage in your college career. Just focus on fixing your mistakes and pushing forward.

Have a great day and good luck.

 

[Tvcker]

Let me give you a little advice from a junior at a state university.

1. Pick what major YOU feel most comfortable in. If Biology/Chemistry etc isn't in your blood then pick something that you are interested in, even if it is in English, Psychology, Engineering, etc and work towards that. You can then take your pre-reqs that you need for Med school and for the MCATs.

2. Don't be discouraged because you slipped up a little bit the first semester or so. A lot of schools won't mind seeing a slip up early on in a students college career as long as they continually have an upward trend of grades and their GPA is consistently going up and not dropping. Also, you can retake your courses. I believe that DO schools replace grades while MD average them together. Once again, show your upward trend of scoring better.

3. Don't overload yourself with courses especially if you are coming off of a less than stellar semester. When I got back into school two and a half years ago after being out of school for two years my advisor set me up with 14 credits which included four classes and two labs. Even that was a little rough to get into but now I am taking 16-18 credits a semester and doing great.

4. While grades are super important, don't pressure yourself TOO much on that and neglect everything else that is required to make you a strong applicant.

5. Take a deep breath and just relax. Everything will be fine and your hard work will pay off. I am 26 as of Friday and I doubted myself since I left high school. I regained my confidence when I finished Nursing school and got out into the field and grew a deep interest in pursuing being a Physician. You have to take the hand your dealt and push through.


I hope my words are taken to heart and you will gain some perspective and motivation from what I have said. I am far far far from knowing everything about the admission process of med schools and mostly got my information from my pre-professional advisor, but with hard work you can do anything. At the age of 18 you will find what fits you, but don't sweat the small stuff at this stage in your college career. Just focus on fixing your mistakes and pushing forward.

Have a great day and good luck.

Thank you so much! You really have motivated me to keep going. Ive been thinking of getting my nursing degree first as well. If I were to become an RN, would this count as some of the volunteer/shadowing hours, or what do you have to say on that?

 

[Eiot]

I said to be competitive, not to have "options". 3.5 and 30 MCAT is what I would call the recommended minimum.

Nah, 3.5/30 is considered competitive in most respects. 3.3/25 would be more along the lines of a recommended minimum.

 

[nysegop]

Nah, 3.5/30 is considered competitive in most respects. 3.3/25 would be more along the lines of a recommended minimum.

For osteopathic. My father works on a pre-med committee. When they get an allopathic applicant with a 3.3 or below they will throw the application out (not literally, but they won't give a very good recommendation). A 3.5 is considered non-competitive to the committee.

Here's how the system works:
<3.0 = No Recommendation (They will still send a letter but they won't recommend the applicant)
3.0-3.49 = Low Recommendation
3.5-3.59 = Recommendation
3.6-3.79 = Strong Recommendation
3.8-3.89 = Excellent Recommendation
3.9-3.99 = Outstanding Recommendation
4.0 = Pre-med Scholar (The best possible recommendation)

Those are just the GPA criteria, other criteria such as personal character are factored into the final decision.

The above is for allopathic. A different system is used for osteopathic applicants (I'm not even sure if they use a GPA ranking system like the above for DO).

 

[ChuckSlayer]

Thank you so much! You really have motivated me to keep going. Ive been thinking of getting my nursing degree first as well. If I were to become an RN, would this count as some of the volunteer/shadowing hours, or what do you have to say on that?

From talking with a Physician at the hospital I work at who is also on the admissions committee at a local Med School, he states that any type of patient interaction is a plus on an applicant.

He told me that you don't have to volunteer to have that interaction and show it on your application.

However, he did state the importance of keeping yourself in check when it comes time for the interview process and not to incorporate any other type of health care related career in with Medicine, because they are of course two separate entities.

While I would normally recommend people to get into nursing as a good career and back up plan, I wouldn't say it would be good to do if you're looking for those "patient interaction/volunteer" hours.

If I could so it all over again I would have became a CNA and just worked from there. Sure the pay is a fraction but you could spend those three years in nursing school focusing on your pre-requisites for med school and another major.

If you are interested in the nursing field though and want to give it a whirl, I say go ahead. Just try and get those science/math/English courses in there (which I believe most nursing programs require the English, but try and get your Biology/Chemistry/Maths/English out of the way the first year of "Pre-Nursing" instead of their intro courses that some schools require).

Then you could take your Physics/Orgo the second year or just here and there until you finish up nursing school. You could even get your Bachelors, and that will cover that base!

I hope my post didn't confuse you, lol. It's sort of a jumbled mess, I'll try and summarize it up!

1. Nursing does count towards your "patient interaction/volunteer" at most schools

2. Nursing is a good field that pays decent, plus you can bet some nice coin before entering med school to afford some of the nicer things. Can't beat that. Plus the schedule is FLEXIBLE beyond belief. You can work as much or as little as you want/need.

3. You can get a Bachelors degree in Nursing which will count towards the required bachelors for med school. I would recommend taking a you Bio 1/2, Chem 1/2, English 1/2, and Math courses your first year of "Pre-Nursing" and if you can wing it, take a course or two the summer before actual nursing school starts.

4. You can also become a CNA and get some hours in that way plus some extra cash. Home health or agency work pays the best from what I hear but you want to either do some long term care (nursing home/personal care home) or hospital stuff. Plus a lot of nursing homes will PAY for you to do the training and it is only three weeks at the facility. It will still get you some patient work and interaction on your application.

I was also in your situation a few years ago with my father, he was sickly and took away from my studies the first year back in school. My GPA was a 3.3 and I felt like dirt and wanted to give up. I kept at it and got my GPA up to a 3.7. It rose almost .3 just from my sophomore year alone and that was with a whole year in and no retakes (I had a C and couldn't retake).

I hope this helped buddy!

 

[Tvcker]

From talking with a Physician at the hospital I work at who is also on the admissions committee at a local Med School, he states that any type of patient interaction is a plus on an applicant.

He told me that you don't have to volunteer to have that interaction and show it on your application.

However, he did state the importance of keeping yourself in check when it comes time for the interview process and not to incorporate any other type of health care related career in with Medicine, because they are of course two separate entities.

While I would normally recommend people to get into nursing as a good career and back up plan, I wouldn't say it would be good to do if you're looking for those "patient interaction/volunteer" hours.

If I could so it all over again I would have became a CNA and just worked from there. Sure the pay is a fraction but you could spend those three years in nursing school focusing on your pre-requisites for med school and another major.

If you are interested in the nursing field though and want to give it a whirl, I say go ahead. Just try and get those science/math/English courses in there (which I believe most nursing programs require the English, but try and get your Biology/Chemistry/Maths/English out of the way the first year of "Pre-Nursing" instead of their intro courses that some schools require).

Then you could take your Physics/Orgo the second year or just here and there until you finish up nursing school. You could even get your Bachelors, and that will cover that base!

I hope my post didn't confuse you, lol. It's sort of a jumbled mess, I'll try and summarize it up!

1. Nursing does count towards your "patient interaction/volunteer" at most schools

2. Nursing is a good field that pays decent, plus you can bet some nice coin before entering med school to afford some of the nicer things. Can't beat that. Plus the schedule is FLEXIBLE beyond belief. You can work as much or as little as you want/need.

3. You can get a Bachelors degree in Nursing which will count towards the required bachelors for med school. I would recommend taking a you Bio 1/2, Chem 1/2, English 1/2, and Math courses your first year of "Pre-Nursing" and if you can wing it, take a course or two the summer before actual nursing school starts.

4. You can also become a CNA and get some hours in that way plus some extra cash. Home health or agency work pays the best from what I hear but you want to either do some long term care (nursing home/personal care home) or hospital stuff. Plus a lot of nursing homes will PAY for you to do the training and it is only three weeks at the facility. It will still get you some patient work and interaction on your application.

I was also in your situation a few years ago with my father, he was sickly and took away from my studies the first year back in school. My GPA was a 3.3 and I felt like dirt and wanted to give up. I kept at it and got my GPA up to a 3.7. It rose almost .3 just from my sophomore year alone and that was with a whole year in and no retakes (I had a C and couldn't retake).

I hope this helped buddy!

I am not too worried about making a lot of money right now. i may take that route. I just know that between shadowing/volunteering, being a full time student, and studying im not going to have too much free time or time for a job, so that's why i was wondering about the nursing thing. You did help a lot

 

[Tvcker]

For osteopathic. My father works on a pre-med committee. When they get an allopathic applicant with a 3.3 or below they will throw the application out (not literally, but they won't give a very good recommendation). A 3.5 is considered non-competitive to the committee.

Here's how the system works:
<3.0 = No Recommendation (They will still send a letter but they won't recommend the applicant)
3.0-3.49 = Low Recommendation
3.5-3.59 = Recommendation
3.6-3.79 = Strong Recommendation
3.8-3.89 = Excellent Recommendation
3.9-3.99 = Outstanding Recommendation
4.0 = Pre-med Scholar (The best possible recommendation)

Those are just the GPA criteria, other criteria such as personal character are factored into the final decision.

The above is for allopathic. A different system is used for osteopathic applicants (I'm not even sure if they use a GPA ranking system like the above for DO).

Thank you for the break down. I wish that I could get that 4.0, but i have already screwed that up, but I am still shooting high with high hopes.

 

[nysegop]

Thank you for the break down. I wish that I could get that 4.0, but i have already screwed that up, but I am still shooting high with high hopes.

Don't worry about 4.0. Not many college students get 4.0s
Many years the committee doesn't even get a 4.0 applicant.

 

[Tvcker]

Don't worry about 4.0. Not many college students get 4.0s
Many years the committee doesn't even get a 4.0 applicant.

You may not be able to answer this, but if I worked my butt off and did really well in all of my classes, what do you think the maximum gpa that i could receive would be with my current 4 F's? because i am ridiculously worried about not being able to get into a good med school now :/

 

[nysegop]

You may not be able to answer this, but if I worked my butt off and did really well in all of my classes, what do you think the maximum gpa that i could receive would be with my current 4 F's? because i am ridiculously worried about not being able to get into a good med school now :/

If you get As in everything, you could be looking at 3.8+. How many credit hours total? I don't think you could get >3.9 though.

 

[Tvcker]

If you get As in everything, you could be looking at 3.8+. How many credit hours total? I don't think you could get >3.9 though.

I think it was 13 total

 

[Tvcker]

Also, my parents keep saying that there is money to be made before I actually become a doctor and that i will be working in doctors offices and such while i go to school, is this true?

 

[nysegop]

Also, my parents keep saying that there is money to be made before I actually become a doctor and that i will be working in doctors offices and such while i go to school, is this true?

You should have a job if you want to reduce your debt, but it doesn't need to be in a doctor's office (though showing clinical experience is a vital part of an application).

 

[Tvcker]

You should have a job if you want to reduce your debt, but it doesn't need to be in a doctor's office (though showing clinical experience is a vital part of an application).

So you are currently pre-med right? Are you working in the medical field while you attend school? What do you recommend?

 

[nysegop]

So you are currently pre-med right? Are you working in the medical field while you attend school? What do you recommend?

I'm not in college yet (I've taken college classes though). I suggest volunteering in hospitals and becoming an EMT. I'm doing both this summer.

 

[Eiot]

For osteopathic. My father works on a pre-med committee.

Where at?

A 3.5 is considered non-competitive to the committee.

3.5-3.59 = Recommendation

?

3.6-3.79 = Strong Recommendation
3.8-3.89 = Excellent Recommendation
3.9-3.99 = Outstanding Recommendation
4.0 = Pre-med Scholar (The best possible recommendation)

Strong, excellent, outstanding; it's all the same concept. Generally speaking, once you break the 3.6+ barrier, you're a strong applicant and the better the GPA, the better your chances. At about the 3.5 range, you are competitive, meaning you have a decent running at an acceptance. I feel you and I have a different perception of what the term "competitive" entails. Anyway, found this after a quick search. Should help provide some insight.

http://www.usnews.com/education/blo...hen-applying-to-medical-school-with-a-low-gpa

For example, the premed advising office at Johns Hopkins University states that applicants with a 3.5 GPA and 30/31 composite MCAT score stand a good chance of securing an acceptance. But applicants with a GPA below 3.3 are advised that their chances for acceptance decrease significantly.

 

[nysegop]

Where at?

?

Strong, excellent, outstanding; it's all the same concept. Generally speaking, once you break the 3.6+ barrier, you're a strong applicant and the better the GPA, the better your chances. At about the 3.5 range, you are competitive, meaning you have a decent running at an acceptance. I feel you and I have a different perception of what the term "competitive" entails. Anyway, found this after a quick search. Should help provide some insight.

http://www.usnews.com/education/blo...hen-applying-to-medical-school-with-a-low-gpa

I don't think "standing a good chance of acceptance" is competitive. I think competitive means you're a stellar candidate for many medical schools.


Says the medical school with an average GPA of 3.87 and an average MCAT score of 35.4.......


I'd rather not say the specific school, but it's a top 100 public school.


As for the 3.5-3.59 applicants getting a recommendation, the committee considers them non-competitive but will still write a recommendation letter. That is assuming they have decent ECs, LORs, research, etc.




Also, OP-

Have you considered other health care fields too?
Nursing - Great career, not quite as competitive, high paying, MUCH BETTER HOURS.
Podiatry - Very well paying (we're talking $200,000+ in many cases), not as competitive (80% of applicants get accepted to podiatry schools. That number is about 37% to medical schools), you can do surgery and prescribe drugs. Basically the same as an MD but working exclusively with feet.
Dentistry - Good lifestyle/hours, high paying, slightly less competitive, teeth.

There are a plethora of alternative careers. Getting an MD or DO isn't the only way to get a good health care career.

Also consider applying to osteopathic (DO) schools. They aren't as competitive but graduates have the same opportunities as allopathic (MD) students.

 

[Tvcker]

Also, OP-

Have you considered other health care fields too?
Nursing - Great career, not quite as competitive, high paying, MUCH BETTER HOURS.
Podiatry - Very well paying (we're talking $200,000+ in many cases), not as competitive (80% of applicants get accepted to podiatry schools. That number is about 37% to medical schools), you can do surgery and prescribe drugs. Basically the same as an MD but working exclusively with feet.
Dentistry - Good lifestyle/hours, high paying, slightly less competitive, teeth.

There are a plethora of alternative careers. Getting an MD or DO isn't the only way to get a good health care career.

Also consider applying to osteopathic (DO) schools. They aren't as competitive but graduates have the same opportunities as allopathic (MD) students.

The college that I will be attending has a 2 year RN program that I am going to take. I think I will probably get my bachelors in biology. I have also considered my options and getting a MD has become my dream. I'm not doing it to impress anyone, I am doing it because I know I can. The human body is very fascinating and I feel like this will be an incredible career choice for me.

 

[nysegop]

The college that I will be attending has a 2 year RN program that I am going to take. I think I will probably get my bachelors in biology. I have also considered my options and getting a MD has become my dream. I'm not doing it to impress anyone, I am doing it because I know I can. The human body is very fascinating and I feel like this will be an incredible career choice for me.

You could go for a PhD in anatomy if the body is fascinating.

 

[Tvcker]

You could go for a PhD in anatomy if the body is fascinating.

Well yes I guess i could but that isnt a path that I want to take

 

[nysegop]

Well yes I guess i could but that isnt a path that I want to take

What is it about medicine that interests you?

 

[nysegop]

From talking with a Physician at the hospital I work at who is also on the admissions committee at a local Med School, he states that any type of patient interaction is a plus on an applicant.

He told me that you don't have to volunteer to have that interaction and show it on your application.

However, he did state the importance of keeping yourself in check when it comes time for the interview process and not to incorporate any other type of health care related career in with Medicine, because they are of course two separate entities.

While I would normally recommend people to get into nursing as a good career and back up plan, I wouldn't say it would be good to do if you're looking for those "patient interaction/volunteer" hours.

If I could so it all over again I would have became a CNA and just worked from there. Sure the pay is a fraction but you could spend those three years in nursing school focusing on your pre-requisites for med school and another major.

If you are interested in the nursing field though and want to give it a whirl, I say go ahead. Just try and get those science/math/English courses in there (which I believe most nursing programs require the English, but try and get your Biology/Chemistry/Maths/English out of the way the first year of "Pre-Nursing" instead of their intro courses that some schools require).

Then you could take your Physics/Orgo the second year or just here and there until you finish up nursing school. You could even get your Bachelors, and that will cover that base!

I hope my post didn't confuse you, lol. It's sort of a jumbled mess, I'll try and summarize it up!

1. Nursing does count towards your "patient interaction/volunteer" at most schools

2. Nursing is a good field that pays decent, plus you can bet some nice coin before entering med school to afford some of the nicer things. Can't beat that. Plus the schedule is FLEXIBLE beyond belief. You can work as much or as little as you want/need.

3. You can get a Bachelors degree in Nursing which will count towards the required bachelors for med school. I would recommend taking a you Bio 1/2, Chem 1/2, English 1/2, and Math courses your first year of "Pre-Nursing" and if you can wing it, take a course or two the summer before actual nursing school starts.

4. You can also become a CNA and get some hours in that way plus some extra cash. Home health or agency work pays the best from what I hear but you want to either do some long term care (nursing home/personal care home) or hospital stuff. Plus a lot of nursing homes will PAY for you to do the training and it is only three weeks at the facility. It will still get you some patient work and interaction on your application.

I was also in your situation a few years ago with my father, he was sickly and took away from my studies the first year back in school. My GPA was a 3.3 and I felt like dirt and wanted to give up. I kept at it and got my GPA up to a 3.7. It rose almost .3 just from my sophomore year alone and that was with a whole year in and no retakes (I had a C and couldn't retake).

I hope this helped buddy!

Just so you know, there are plenty of nurses who go on to become doctors.

 

[Tvcker]

What is it about medicine that interests you?

Im interested in the treatment and care that I will be able to provide for my patients. I am not doing it to " Help people", because almost every job that there is helps people in some way or form. I am not going to do it for the money. There are easier ways to make a lot of money than spending four years learning about obscure diseases and then working as a glorified indentured servant for up to 12 more years. I want to study medicine because it is a dream of mine. I dont want to do it for my parents, they will love me whatever path i choose, im not doing it to be respected in my community... priests and police officers are respected. Im doing this for me. Im not going to tell you that it has always been my dream and i hope that one day i will be able to cure cancer. the thing that interests me is providing genuine care for ill people.

 

[Tvcker]

Just so you know, there are plenty of nurses who go on to become doctors.

Yes, my best friends mom went from being an RN to getting her MD. She is the only real mentor that I have as far as any of this goes

 

[Arijos0222]

Btw just throwing this out there... D.O. Schools do offer grade replacement.

MD's do special masters programs.

 

[Arijos0222]

For osteopathic. My father works on a pre-med committee. When they get an allopathic applicant with a 3.3 or below they will throw the application out (not literally, but they won't give a very good recommendation). A 3.5 is considered non-competitive to the committee.

Here's how the system works:
<3.0 = No Recommendation (They will still send a letter but they won't recommend the applicant)
3.0-3.49 = Low Recommendation
3.5-3.59 = Recommendation
3.6-3.79 = Strong Recommendation
3.8-3.89 = Excellent Recommendation
3.9-3.99 = Outstanding Recommendation
4.0 = Pre-med Scholar (The best possible recommendation)

Those are just the GPA criteria, other criteria such as personal character are factored into the final decision.

The above is for allopathic. A different system is used for osteopathic applicants (I'm not even sure if they use a GPA ranking system like the above for DO).

Also, don't forget Affirmative Action and Minorities...

http://www.edbasic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/medschool.jpg

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=12487361

 

[Tvcker]

Btw just throwing this out there... D.O. Schools do offer grade replacement.

MD's do special masters programs.

I have been looking into DO schools here recently and it just doesnt seem like something i would be interested in really. It seems like they are more focused on traditional healing and natural prevention rather than modern day medication and surgery

What do you mean by "MD's do special masters programs"?

 

[Mintcake]

I don't have any advice related to your medical school journey, but I do have advice on posting your personal information online: don't.

After thirty minutes of searching, I know your parents' names, and I most likely know where you live as well as your phone number. Of course I won't do anything with that info, but if I can find it, anyone can. You should probably edit your post.

I'll pray for your dad tonight. Good luck with everything.

 

[Tvcker]

I don't have any advice related to your medical school journey, but I do have advice on posting your personal information online: don't.

After thirty minutes of searching, I know your parents' names, and I most likely know where you live as well as your phone number. Of course I won't do anything with that info, but if I can find it, anyone can. You should probably edit your post.

I'll pray for your dad tonight. Good luck with everything.

thanks , edited

 

[nysegop]

I have been looking into DO schools here recently and it just doesnt seem like something i would be interested in really. It seems like they are more focused on traditional healing and natural prevention rather than modern day medication and surgery

What do you mean by "MD's do special masters programs"?

Osteopathic medicine is identical to allopathic medicine, but DO students take an additional class called "osteopathic manipulation". Osteopathic graduates can do anything that allopathic (MD) graduates can do. They can become neurosurgeons, ER docs, pediatricians, transplant surgeons, general surgeons, literally anything. The only difference is the osteopathic schools have slightly easier admissions and they have to take an additional class. I recommend anyone with lower than a 3.51 should apply to DO schools. Anyone with below a 3.3 doesn't stand a chance at an MD school, but DO is still likely, depending on MCAT score.

 

[Tvcker]

Osteopathic medicine is identical to allopathic medicine, but DO students take an additional class called "osteopathic manipulation". Osteopathic graduates can do anything that allopathic (MD) graduates can do. They can become neurosurgeons, ER docs, pediatricians, transplant surgeons, general surgeons, literally anything. The only difference is the osteopathic schools have slightly easier admissions and they have to take an additional class. I recommend anyone with lower than a 3.51 should apply to DO schools. Anyone with below a 3.3 doesn't stand a chance at an MD school, but DO is still likely, depending on MCAT score.

Well is the Osteopathic title considered less prestigious or maybe considered less significant and not as respected?

OT: Thank you for all of your replies bud, they are really helping me out!

 

[Eiot]

I feel you and I have a different perception of what the term "competitive" entails.

I don't think "standing a good chance of acceptance" is competitive. I think competitive means you're a stellar candidate for many medical schools.

My point exactly.

 

[Eiot]

Well is the Osteopathic title considered less prestigious or maybe considered less significant and not as respected?

Aside from what Nysegop said above, which is correct, DOs also struggle getting into more competitive residencies such as dermatology, orthopedics, plastics, radiology. Many DOs end up being distributed into less competitive spots such as family medicine, pediatrics, and psychiatry. Now this isn't to say that they can't get into the more competitive residencies, as they most certainly can, it's just harder at this time. Who knows what will change by 2020.

 

[Tvcker]

Aside from what Nysegop said above, which is correct, DOs also struggle getting into more competitive residencies such as dermatology, orthopedics, plastics, radiology. Many DOs end up being distributed into less competitive spots such as family medicine, pediatrics, and psychiatry. Now this isn't to say that they can't get into the more competitive residencies, as they most certainly can, it's just harder at this time. Who knows what will change by 2020.

From what i have read up on it, it just doesnt seem like the way i want to go. But im definitely going to keep looking and checking it out.

 

[Arijos0222]

From what i have read up on it, it just doesnt seem like the way i want to go. But im definitely going to keep looking and checking it out.

I know many D.O. Neurologists.

The difference is primarily the degree granted. If you are a good student and apply yourself, you will most certainly get into competitive programs.

My cousin's friend is a 2rd year Anesthesiology resident at Mount Sinai... She's a D.O.

It's not impossible. MD or DO, you are still a licensed physician LOL no one will doubt that. Just get into a medical school, MD or DO. I'm sure you will be ecstatic by either acceptance.

 

[Arijos0222]

Have you considered other health care fields too?

Dentistry - Good lifestyle/hours, high paying, slightly less competitive, teeth.
.

I've stalked around the dental forums and i've been shadowing a dentists most recently.

Apparently it isn't all glitz and glamour.... As there is a little bit of trouble with over saturation as well as the cost of starting a practice. However I think once you are fully settled (maybe mid 30's, you will be okay. Still, that is like, 10 years or so struggling? And you may not even produce a positive cash flow maybe until your 5th year owning a practice. Also I don't hear surgeons complain about their backs (the ones I shadowed) but I do hear about dentists complain about spine and back problems because they are constantly bending over (and sitting down which wreaks havoc on the physique).

That being said, I think you can grow your net worth much easier in the millions than you can in other fields of medicine

I bolded "easier" because I read a lot of financial books and I read of a surgeon who makes 700,000 a year (probably neurosurgeon) and he/she invests heavily and had a 20,000,000 dollar net worth which is pretty insane thinking about the fact that they usually don't have much time on their hands to be worrying about business...

But I digress.

 

[Tvcker]

I know many D.O. Neurologists.

The difference is primarily the degree granted. If you are a good student and apply yourself, you will most certainly get into competitive programs.

My cousin's friend is a 2rd year Anesthesiology resident at Mount Sinai... She's a D.O.

It's not impossible. MD or DO, you are still a licensed physician LOL no one will doubt that. Just get into a medical school, MD or DO. I'm sure you will be ecstatic by either acceptance.

Im not very interested in dentrestry, Im still mostly interested with the brain and spine, but this may change by the time i get to med school, who knows?

I've stalked around the dental forums and i've been shadowing a dentists most recently.

Apparently it isn't all glitz and glamour.... As there is a little bit of trouble with over saturation as well as the cost of starting a practice. However I think once you are fully settled (maybe mid 30's, you will be okay. Still, that is like, 10 years or so struggling? And you may not even produce a positive cash flow maybe until your 5th year owning a practice. Also I don't hear surgeons complain about their backs (the ones I shadowed) but I do hear about dentists complain about spine and back problems because they are constantly bending over (and sitting down which wreaks havoc on the physique).

That being said, I think you can grow your net worth much easier in the millions than you can in other fields of medicine

I bolded "easier" because I read a lot of financial books and I read of a surgeon who makes 700,000 a year (probably neurosurgeon) and he/she invests heavily and had a 20,000,000 dollar net worth which is pretty insane thinking about the fact that they usually don't have much time on their hands to be worrying about business...

But I digress.

And thats crazy haha!

 

[nysegop]

I know many D.O. Neurologists.

The difference is primarily the degree granted. If you are a good student and apply yourself, you will most certainly get into competitive programs.

My cousin's friend is a 2rd year Anesthesiology resident at Mount Sinai... She's a D.O.

It's not impossible. MD or DO, you are still a licensed physician LOL no one will doubt that. Just get into a medical school, MD or DO. I'm sure you will be ecstatic by either acceptance.

I've stalked around the dental forums and i've been shadowing a dentists most recently.

Apparently it isn't all glitz and glamour.... As there is a little bit of trouble with over saturation as well as the cost of starting a practice. However I think once you are fully settled (maybe mid 30's, you will be okay. Still, that is like, 10 years or so struggling? And you may not even produce a positive cash flow maybe until your 5th year owning a practice. Also I don't hear surgeons complain about their backs (the ones I shadowed) but I do hear about dentists complain about spine and back problems because they are constantly bending over (and sitting down which wreaks havoc on the physique).

That being said, I think you can grow your net worth much easier in the millions than you can in other fields of medicine

I bolded "easier" because I read a lot of financial books and I read of a surgeon who makes 700,000 a year (probably neurosurgeon) and he/she invests heavily and had a 20,000,000 dollar net worth which is pretty insane thinking about the fact that they usually don't have much time on their hands to be worrying about business...

But I digress.

Also average salaries don't give the whole picture. I know some rural primary care doctors make ~$50,000. On the other hand, I read a book about a private practice general surgeon who made over $1.3 million per year.

 

[Tvcker]

Also average salaries don't give the whole picture. I know some rural primary care doctors make ~$50,000. On the other hand, I read a book about a private practice general surgeon who made over $1.3 million per year.

thats crazy, but im not in it for the big bucks... well thats not the oly reason LOL

 

[nysegop]

thats crazy, but im not in it for the big bucks... well thats not the oly reason LOL

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imI8baMrfGo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[OldGrandDad]

Hello everyone! I guess I will start off with giving a little background information on myself. My name is Tucker, and I am 18 years old. I graduated high school in 2012 from third in my class with a 3.9 GPA. Since then I attended Southern Polytechnic State University for 1 semester going to study Software. I started to lose interest in the program about 2 months into it, and decided that After the semester was over I would transfer to a local school for pre-med. I have always been fascinated with the body and how it works, and i have decided that I really want to be either a neurosurgeon or a neurologist (not sure what area I want to specialize in yet).

We have just recently found that my father has a brain tumor about the size of a golf ball on his left frontal lobe. He has had two grand mal seizures in the past 2 weeks and he goes to have a biopsy this Thursday. This is motivating me more than ever to become either a neurosurgeon or neurologist.

I am the only person in my family to ever attend college, so this is the only help I am getting from anyone right now. I just have a few questions that I would like to ask someone who can actually help me, and who has been through the pre-med programs and can help point me in the direction that I need to go.

Questions

1. Does anyone know if there is a way to have these grades removed? I will even take the classes again just to be able to fix my current GPA. Im worried that my financial aid will no longer help me once they see my current failures.

Unfortunately there is no way to have grades removed for medical applications. For MD programs you can retake the class and they will average the grades like any other class, but for DO programs you can grade replace any class that you retake (eg if you get a C- for a semester but retake the class as an A they will only count the A)


2. Does the pre-med program that I attend have an effect on where I can go to med school?

Short answer: Kind of. Long answer: To a certain extent competitive schools want to see competitive undergraduate programs, but it is significantly lower on this list than things like GPA, MCAT, ECs, Research,.....,etc. Your best bet is to find a program that meets your needs and allows you to do well and be happy. As others have mentioned, cost is an important consideration especially when you add on the cost of your medical education.

3. I have no idea how any of this works. So if anyone has any suggestions of anything I should look into please let me know. I am open to any advice, because like I said this will be the only place that I can get it. I am the only person in my family that knows anything about college
I would recommend reading some other forums on this website as well. Look at pre-allo (realizing they are often a misleading sample of the population like this section), pre-osteo (to learn about DO programs and to find some friendly pre-meds) and the non-traditional and Reapplicant thread (these threads will let you see that there are many paths to get to medical school and that the "rules" and "averages" for "competitive" applicants really don't count for the people that aren't cookie cutter pre-meds. Much of this process is about finding yourself and your reasoning and conveying that to the schools to which you want to go.

I am a very motivated student that just needs a little help with the path that I should take. So any and all feedback is HIGHLY appreciated! I look forward to chatting with you guys and hope to talk to you soon! Thank you!

Answered your questions in bold above.

 

[Tvcker]

Answered your questions in bold above.

Thanks for the answers! I have another question and I don't want anyone to rage at me when I ask... But med school is like other colleges when it comes to getting loans and such right? Or do I have to pay A LOT out of pocket? I mean I know I will eventually have to repay it and stuff.